SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

[MZ]

Videos still don't show a huge amount of new content. That's the only thing which has me worried at the moment. The screenshots from the websites don't really change this either... I'm hoping that the change to how you get your starter speeds up getting a Pokemon and changes how the initial interactions work.

Just wanted to build on this idea a bit. It's not just the lack of wholly new content that really confused me while watching all the releases, it's the fact that all of the new content seems to be stuff they've been planning a while in advance. There's no way this Pikachu island or 3rd Lycanroc form or new UBs are entirely new concepts given how recent it's been since Sun and Moon, these had to be ideas they shifted to later to build up hype for the second installment (correct me if I'm wrong). Hype is not a substitute for doing nothing new/interesting in a followup. There's no apparent acknowledgement of fan reaction to Sun and Moon either. You'd think that if they're basically just doing the same thing, the best way to get the fanbase on board is to say "yep we heard you about slow startup/annoying roadblocks/bad encounter tables and we're cutting back on this for the new version". But honestly it just looks like they're keeping everything and adding more stuff in a statement more akin to "stop whining, our games are perfect already". The one glimmer of hope I'm seeing is that Rockruff dex number change you brought up, because listening to people about not sticking Gumshoos and Pelipper on every damn island would at least be something.

 

[Johta]

People are also ignoring the fact that they might not be showing new content because there's hardly any, plot-wise at least. They're not going to show story sequences that are the same because they don't want people to figure out they'll pay 40 bucks for a director's cut edition of the game. It's cheap, yeah, but definitely a tactic I could see Game Freak deploying.

 

[Sulfurian]

Just out of curiosity, because this is also kinda annoying to me: which rockruff would be better? I'm thinking thunderfang because lycanroc may get super power from tutors.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

Just out of curiosity, because this is also kinda annoying to me: which rockruff would be better? I'm thinking thunderfang because lycanroc may get super power from tutors.

Fire fang. Fire hits the most relevant steels and thunder fang doesn't really cover much. Superpower is nice but it doesn't hit most Steels SE.

 

[Worldie]

There'd be the possibility Lycanroc gets moves like Iron Head, Knock Off, Super Power, even Gunk Shot (lycanroc-midnight would love that) and other common phisical coverage, so I don't realistically see you'd even want to run either Fangs to begin with.

There's also the possibility that simply you can relearn both, since Rockruff gets both as egg move, and relearnable egg moves aren't uncommon in event pokes.

 

[Project_Mars]

People are also ignoring the fact that they might not be showing new content because there's hardly any, plot-wise at least. They're not going to show story sequences that are the same because they don't want people to figure out they'll pay 40 bucks for a director's cut edition of the game. It's cheap, yeah, but definitely a tactic I could see Game Freak deploying.

The thing is, some of the stuff shown on the direct, i.e. Nebby battling Necrozma and the player in the cutscene showing the UBs, seems like it could change up the story enough to keep it interesting, even if it hits all the same plot points.

To me I am not sure if it is as a copy/paste job as others are thinking about. The Portal scene on Aether Paradise very much deliberately cuts at the moment something should come out of the Portal to a prerendered CGI scene which won't be in the game. Previously, they made it very obvious what was going to come out of the Portal in the form of Nihilego.

Maybe it'll be Necrozma instead, And rather than fight it you watch it run off to Poni Island or something? Of course, what that could change about Lusamine's Axe Craziness is unknown. (Presumably her husband will still be running Poke Pelago)

 

[Rapti]

Just wanted to build on this idea a bit. It's not just the lack of wholly new content that really confused me while watching all the releases, it's the fact that all of the new content seems to be stuff they've been planning a while in advance. There's no way this Pikachu island or 3rd Lycanroc form or new UBs are entirely new concepts given how recent it's been since Sun and Moon, these had to be ideas they shifted to later to build up hype for the second installment (correct me if I'm wrong). Hype is not a substitute for doing nothing new/interesting in a followup. There's no apparent acknowledgement of fan reaction to Sun and Moon either. You'd think that if they're basically just doing the same thing, the best way to get the fanbase on board is to say "yep we heard you about slow startup/annoying roadblocks/bad encounter tables and we're cutting back on this for the new version".

I'm pretty sure that pokemon games are developed far ahead of their release; like Ultra S&M where almost finished before S&M release
which is why things like Pokémon GO are not even referenced in gen VII, the games where pretty much done it turned out to be so popular

so I'm confident Gamefreak will address current fan complaints come gen IX

 

[Suspicious Derivative]

More information about the games? Yes! Some short thoughts about what was shown, the Direct aired in the middle of the night for me so I did not watch it live. I skimmed through the thread from page 10 to current so I did not read every post in detail, apologies if I'm repeating things others have said. Not doing this trailer-by-trailer, it will be a mix of both trailers.

- First of all, the new forms of Necrozma. I'm glad it has been confirmed that they are Necrozma forms and not Solgaleo/Lunala forms, that's one mystery less to speculate about. It absorbs the other legend by taking it into its hands, that's unexpected. Dusk Mane and Dawn wings, I thought they would keep the Twilight name since that's what it was called in Japanese. I guess I'm one of the few who actually really likes the word "Twilight" lol, and it is not because of vampires. Though I like the word Dawn better than Dusk so now it feels better since I'm getting Ultra Moon first. And they are using the signature moves of Lunala/Solgaleo too, not bad.
- One very important thing here which I thought about. Notice the Pokemon the Necrozma forms are fighting in the trailer on the Pokemon channel. It is a Mienfoo. A Pokemon which was not in the Regional Dex in S/M, it could not be found with Island Scan either. While this does not confirm a Regional Dex revamp/extension, it really seems to be hinting at it. Combine this with other things like Rockruff having a new Dex number (I did not notice this on my own, thanks to those who did) and IIRC during the S/M pre-release trailers we only saw Pokemon which later ended up being in the Alola Dex... what this suggests is that the Alola Dex might not be the same as it was in S/M. I'm having high hopes right now.
- Minor but it seems the area they were fighting in was a valley of some sort, like Vast Poni Canyon. Will wild Mienfoo be found there? I sure hope so.
- Also, a Mantine was shown at one point, thanks to Nelson Tangela for pointing it out as I did not notice it myself. More hints at a Pokedex change, or perhaps a new Poke Ride feature? I'm hoping for both!
- New areas are always welcome, though I can't help but wonder where in the world they will be located? Alola doesn't really allow for area expansion in the same way that Unova did so we'll see. I'm really curious about it. The surfing beach area looks really neat either way.
- The scene at Aether Paradise looks very similar... except for Necrozma appearing out of the hole instead. I wasn't expecting that much in terms of story/character changes anyway so I'll be happy with what we get.
- Character customization returns, I wasn't expecting anything else but this is good news nonetheless. New clothes too? Even better, though it was already confirmed in the first trailer. I love it. Pokemon-clothes are cool albeit a bit silly for my tastes like the Pikachu clothings they were showing, I prefer the more subtle ones. Anyway, I will definitely use customization again to dress up my characters in fun ways and make them look different compared to my S/M characters.
- The starter selection have changed, we have to fight a wild Yungoos? I'm getting Hoenn/Sinnoh vibes here. Also, somewhat unrelated, but I really love the new artwork for Litten. It looks so happy! I thought it looked rather bored in its original artwork so this is a great improvement. Even more so since I'm starting with Litten in Ultra Moon.
- Then some more Lycanroc info. I'm glad its new Z-move can be used in all three forms. I also like how it destroys terrain, new effects for Z-moves are always cool. I'll get the Thunder Fang Rockruff but I don't think I'll use it on my team since I used a Midday Lycanroc for my in-game team in Sun and I'm planning to use one on my post-game team there as well so yeah. Might use the Dusk form for a mid-game team or something on Ultra Moon though.
- Celebi from GS. Interesting, but I hadn't planned to get those games on the VC anyway and this does not change my mind. I'm not super interested in a Celebi either since I have many of them on previous generations, gen 6 in particular.
- New Ultra Beasts... new Pokemon OH MY GOODNESS I did not see this coming at all! I'll take it they are NEW POKEMON and not new forms since they seem to be advertised as such. I had never expected them to add completely new Pokemon in the middle of a generation but it seems like everything changes and that is, in this case at least, a good thing. Design-wise they are weird as heck and I love it because new Pokemon and especially new UBs are supposed to be really weird. I prefer Burst over Assembly design-wise but it doesn't matter much since I'm planning to get both games eventually.

That's it for now, I think. My original plan was to not look into any more news and trailers post-September but I'm not sure anymore since I'm actually quite hyped now and I really want more info! Especially about one certain thing... battle facilities. But I'm not sure what to hope and expect regarding that. Not sure how I'll do for the rest of the pre-release period either, will have to see if anything more is revealed during this month, then we'll see.

This post was rather rushed so apologies again if there are any mistakes.

 

[Codraroll]

Anyone wonder if there's a chance there will be more new Ultra Beasts besides these two? If that's the case it could throw off our expectations on typing completely since they could then just make Assembly Ghost/Steel or Rock/Steel or something.

Put it this way: By introducing entirely new Pokémon species in the middle of a generation, Game Freak has broken a convention that stood solid for more than twenty years. They might even have straddled the definition of a generation by doing it. It is, by all measures, a huge change of the rules (albeit softened a little by ditching some aspects of the traditional same-generation battling compatibility in ORAS). I really doubt they'd go to such a drastic step for the sake of just two new Pokémon.

Not sure what this signals for other Pokémon, but so far I'd be extremely reluctant to expect new non-UB, non-Form(e), entirely-new-dex-number Pokémon in USUM. But they've opened the metaphorical floodgates, so we can't really rule out anything either.

On the other hand, we do have Fletchinder (and Crabominable) as a testament to how they can change the rules and then still mostly abide by the old ones. They raised the character limit for Pokémon names in Gen VI, but only let one Pokémon take advantage of it, and then only using 11 characters. Crabominable has a 12-character name, but it and Fletchinder are so far the only ones (out of more than 150 released after the limit change) to straddle the old 10-character limit.

 

[Worldie]

I think it's very realistic to expect more Alolan Forms, and somewhat possible to see a very few (like, couple or 3 at most) more UBs, since UBs are tecnically "legendaryes" in same fashion as Tapus (sortofunique scripted encounters, with limited possibilityes to catch and not breedable).

More alolan forms would simply be matching a pattern with Mega evos as just said earlier, with ORAS having several more than XY.

A couple new "legendaryes" aren't necessarly out of question, and a minor break of the rules, which can have the purpose of scouting the playerbase reaction to "adding more pokemon mid-gen" for future uses in gen 8.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'd say that the context of new Pokemon mid gen would be VERY important as you'd need to justify why those new Pokemon weren't in the first paired games.

New UBs make sense, they're from a different dimension that has not been really explored. So it just so happened in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon some new UBs got sucked through Ultra Wormholes that didn't in Sun & Moon, a circumstance of pure chance.

What wouldn't make sense or be harder to justify is if there was a new com mon. Like where did it come from that Sun & Moon didn't have them? Not saying it's impossible, like had they maybe introduced a new island or isolated locations that could explain it but it would need at least some side story focus. For example, I wouldn't be opposed if new Fossil Pokemon were introduced this way, once again it was just a circumstance of pure chance that some new fossils were discovered in an area that was previously inaccessible. I could even see maybe new evolutions/pre-evolutions maybe being introduced this way, a new item or mechanic is discovered that makes certain Pokemon evolve.

However I think new Legendaries would be more difficult to justify since those are suppose to be Pokemon who are part of myths, legends, and pseudo religion. It would make more sense to set up the new Legendaries mythology in the first paired games so that exists and then actually introduce them in the third game/second paired games. Once again, circumstance of pure chance that they just didn't appear in the first paired games but then made their appearance in the next one.

 

[Deleted User 400951]

It's worth noting now that with 804 mons, GF is going to have to be very conservative with adding new mons now. I'm guessing now that Gen 8 is gonna add some 50-70 new mons, and nothing more. With that, we might be able to support 3 more gens. This is certainly not adding a precedent - it breaks the rules, like CRoll said, but this is likely going to be the one exception. They're seriously running out of new mons, as I feel that they're avoiding the 1000 mon mark. We're going to be in an interesting situation in 3 gens or so. In the meanwhile, they'll add new gimmicks to make up for the lack of new mons. :( Goodbye in I'm guessing 10-15 years...

 

[Worldie]

I think you misunderstood what I said there. I said "legendaryes" when referring to UBs due to the acquisition method, but I did not mean that they shuold be fine adding new legendaryes.

I was mostly referring that adding a "very limited encounter" pokemon has way less consequences and is more justificable than adding common mons, which pretty much mimics what you said.

 

[Sulfurian]

Honestly it's a shame that ultra beasts are more like legendaries for the franchise. The possibilities are endless for weird and strange designs with them. Honestly you could make a whole dex with them if they wanted to

 

[Worldie]

You definitely could, but it would not be practical.

We are already sitting on 800+ Pokemon, and "an entire Ultrabeast dex" is definitely not something the game needs at the moment :)

 

[Sulfurian]

You definitely could, but it would not be practical.

We are already sitting on 800+ Pokemon, and "an entire Ultrabeast dex" is definitely not something the game needs at the moment :)

True, I'm just saying that ultra beasts seem like something that they could never run out of ideas for. It was more of a response to "running out of ideas" comments.

 

[Siggu]

I'd actually be very interested in learning where they get inspiration from when designing the Ultra Beasts.

I mean, it takes skill to try to make something look weird and be successful at it.

 

[Kanburi]

I think they did initially advertise the game having "Pokemon that weren't seen in SM", so I would assume that they'd just include a bunch of Pokemon from previous generations as opposed to having completely new Pokemon/forms, though I would like to see some new forms.

I'm just hoping there are new areas to explore (new island, new area in existing islands, underwater, whatever) and it's not the same Alola. Like maybe Lusamine is a changed character from SM and put together a team of archaeologists to venture off into some previously unknown area to explore and look for Pokemon in need, thus discovering new Pokemon in Alola. Bit of a stretch, I know.

 

[Yveltal]

I think they did initially advertise the game having "Pokemon that weren't seen in SM", so I would assume that they'd just include a bunch of Pokemon from previous generations as opposed to having completely new Pokemon/forms, though I would like to see some new forms.

Here's the thing, though. In the past, the marketing team that handles news for upcoming games has called form changes new Pokemon (Mega Mewtwo Y immediately comes to mind), because they're both "new" and a "Pokemon". If all we were getting were new Necrozma forms, they could/would still market the games as containing new Pokemon.

We're somewhat lucky that this isn't the case for these games, but still.[/quote]

 

[Whitetempest]

I will be very shocked if UB Burst is not Fire/Grass, every part of its design seems to point to that typing.

Its signature move is certainly either Fire/Ghost/Dark given its effectiveness vs. Metagross and Decidueye. Given that its name is Burst and the animation has fireworks in it, this heavily suggests Fire. This carries across languages too, all its names suggest some sort of explosion.

And its design is very much plant-like. It's ruffled collar is reminiscent of flower petals, it's long thin body is a plant stalk, and its head is very similar to the sorts of pseudanthium found in plants such as the daisy or dandelion.

Combined these suggest to me that it'll be a Fire/Grass type Pokemon inspired by ballistic seed dispersal such as in impatiens. Given that one tree that utilizes this method of seed dispersal is called the "dynamite tree" it is certainly a very interesting route to take a Fire/Grass type. Much more interesting than the common chili pepper fanmons.

 

[R_N]

Here's the thing, though. In the past, the marketing team that handles news for upcoming games has called form changes new Pokemon (Mega Mewtwo Y immediately comes to mind), because they're both "new" and a "Pokemon". If all we were getting were new Necrozma forms, they could/would still market the games as containing new Pokemon.

We're somewhat lucky that this isn't the case for these games, but still.

Mega Mewtwo Y was amazing because they adamantly refused to refer to it as anything other than "a mysterious pokemon that has some connection to mewtwo?!" despite literally showing mewtwo turn into it

 

[Kanburi]

Here's the thing, though. In the past, the marketing team that handles news for upcoming games has called form changes new Pokemon (Mega Mewtwo Y immediately comes to mind), because they're both "new" and a "Pokemon". If all we were getting were new Necrozma forms, they could/would still market the games as containing new Pokemon.

We're somewhat lucky that this isn't the case for these games, but still.

Yeah, while that is absolutely true, it would be underwhelming for them to advertise it as such for just two Necrozma forms. I think it's most likely that they meant a bunch of Pokemon from previous generations, and that they didn't mention anything about "new Pokemon" (新しいポケモン) specifically because there would only be two. Then again, I'm basing this off of the Japanese trailer, not sure if it was different in the North American one.

 

[MattL]

alright so most of the UBs have completely whack stat distributions. I'm kind of fearing that one of Assembly's HP, defense, or spdef will be terrible which would decrease its viability significantly. please don't choke gf and give it like base 50 hp or spdef

 

[Sulfurian]

alright so most of the UBs have completely whack stat distributions. I'm kind of fearing that one of Assembly's HP, defense, or spdef will be terrible which would decrease its viability significantly. please don't choke gf and give it like base 50 hp or spdef

I could see it with the god of all defensive stats but hits worse than an onix

 

[Project_Mars]

I'd say that the context of new Pokemon mid gen would be VERY important as you'd need to justify why those new Pokemon weren't in the first paired games.

New UBs make sense, they're from a different dimension that has not been really explored. So it just so happened in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon some new UBs got sucked through Ultra Wormholes that didn't in Sun & Moon, a circumstance of pure chance.

What wouldn't make sense or be harder to justify is if there was a new com mon. Like where did it come from that Sun & Moon didn't have them? Not saying it's impossible, like had they maybe introduced a new island or isolated locations that could explain it but it would need at least some side story focus. For example, I wouldn't be opposed if new Fossil Pokemon were introduced this way, once again it was just a circumstance of pure chance that some new fossils were discovered in an area that was previously inaccessible. I could even see maybe new evolutions/pre-evolutions maybe being introduced this way, a new item or mechanic is discovered that makes certain Pokemon evolve.

However I think new Legendaries would be more difficult to justify since those are suppose to be Pokemon who are part of myths, legends, and pseudo religion. It would make more sense to set up the new Legendaries mythology in the first paired games so that exists and then actually introduce them in the third game/second paired games. Once again, circumstance of pure chance that they just didn't appear in the first paired games but then made their appearance in the next one.

Mythics and UBs are probably most likely to be introduced mid-generation like this tbh. Personally I think there's a chance we will see an entirely new set of UBs rather than any of the ones from SM. Which could also change up the typing potentials for Burst and Assembly (i.e. Assembly could be Ghost/Steel or something with none of the other USUM UBs (except Burst) having a typing that includes Ghost or Steel)