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SPOILERS! Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon News & Discussion

Discussion in 'Orange Islands' started by DHR-107, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    [​IMG]

    Hey all!

    I believe it is time for this thread to be created. After the announcement on the 6th of June there was nothing until August 7th's announcement of Lycanroc Dusk forme. I will keep updating these posts as we get more information.

    Currently we know very little.

    Release Date is November 17th World Wide




    Japanese and UK Nintendo Direct Announcements from 6th of June which include Solgaleo-N and Lunala-N (as we have called them).

    7th August 2017:

    [​IMG]
    http://www.pokemon.com/us/pokemon-news/a-huge-discovery-of-a-new-lycanroc-form/

    Lycanroc Dusk Forme is shown to the world via Pokenchi and a Website update. It looks like this Lycanroc forme will be in the newest Pokemon Anime episode, so expect some more information soon. We also have Corocoro coming in the next few days, so expect more news then.

    8th August 2017: Corocoro early scans have been leaked and they imply that Dusk forme will get access to both Accelrock and Counter. It will also have the ability; Tough Claws. Serebii is awaiting further higher quality scans before anything else can be reliably determined.

    10th August 2017: It appears that Rockruff will be the gift in the same vein Munchlax or Torchic were. Only this specific Rockruff can evolve into Lycanroc-Dusk. This has been loosely confirmed by Serebii here: "Rockruff caught during regular play cannot evolve into Lycanroc (Dusk Form)." https://twitter.com/JoeMerrick/status/895503611471339523

    11th August 2017:

    A new trailer for Lycanroc Dusk forme has been released for Japan. Seems to cover the same info we already know about.

    18th August 2017:

    Japanese Trailer can be found here: Trailer


    New video from the Pokemon Channel showing a "new" overworld image, the player speaking to Ryuki, Kahili appearing and also some environmental tidbits. We then got a video about Kommo-O's new Z Move; Clangorous Soublaze.

    Comparison of old and new Alola islands, as found on Pokebip via Rapti:
    12th September 2017: Corocoro leaks and gives us more information about the Event Rockruff which can evolve into Lycanroc-Dusk. The Rockruff has the ability Own Tempo. There is also some information about Lyncaroc's Z move (explained in the next update). They also give us cool artwork of the new formes, Necrozma + Solgaleo is called Mane of Twilight, whereas Necrozma + Lunana is called Wings of Dawn.

    13th September 2017 (14th in some Regions):

    Nintendo Direct information

    Pokemon Youtube Channel with UB information and Lycanroc information
    Nintendo Direct airs and gives us immediate information about Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. It is heavily implied by this video that were will likely be four more videos released before launch of the game (probably weekly). A new Pikachu related to the Pokemon Movie is teased, as well as several new areas are show. A beach behind the Tide Song Hotel is shown, and Mantine appears to be a Ride Pokemon. Necrozma appears to be a much larger part of this games Story than in SM, similar to Giratina's presence in Platinum.

    The four new updates (which I presume will be weekly):
    Part 1 - The Key to the Story - Necrozma - The footage shown implies a showdown between Solgaleo/Lunala and Necrozma at the Shrine.
    Part 2 - Charting new areas of Alola - Footage shows us the new area mentioned above and some more visuals of the Pikachu infested area. It also shows some new clothing options. It also shows us that we have a new way of getting our Starter Pokemon.
    Part 3 - Bonuses - Lycanroc is shown using its new Z move, Splintered Stormshards. Lycanroc Dusk (From Rockruff) is your "Early Buyer" bonus like Munchlax and Torchic were before. Ordering the Digital Version gives you a code for 12 Quick Balls. Purchasing Gold or Silver on VC will gain you access to a special Celebi. https://i.imgur.com/uwtFja0.jpg This Rockruff is shown to have access to Fire Fang in Sun and Thunder Fang in Moon. It also has access to Happy Hour.
    Part 4 - New Pokemon!? - Footage shows UB Burst and UB Assembly. UB Burst appears to use a new move, while Assembly uses Iron Defence.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    There is also a special New 2DS which has a Pokeball Design which is available November 3rd.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  2. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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  3. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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  4. DHR-107

    DHR-107 Robot from the Future
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    I am opening the thread up for the weekend with the drop of the new video from the Japanese Youtube channel. I will update with the English one when it comes!
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  5. Aldertz

    Aldertz formerly BPGXMG

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    Well, I did notice something interesting.

    That Bewear, Level 40, hit it with Hammer Arm. Lycanroc was level 43, and a pure Rock type. It went from 123 down to 55, which is 68 HP lost. If we calculate max IVs, that Lycanroc had 66 base HP, and if we calculate no IVs, it had 82. If it had 20 - Ash-Gren had 20 so it's worth bringing up - it had 72 base.

    Given that Bewear had 0 Atk IVs and Lycanroc had 31 HP and Def, we see that it has at the very least, a defense stat of 143. Given we go for 31 Atk IVs on Bewear, that number gets even more disgusting. If it had 20 IVs for both (meaning 72 base HP), we get 149. I don't even wanna know what that defensive stat is if it had 0 HP IVs.

    This is all calculated with no EVs at all, which is probably inaccurate. Thus, it might be lower. If I put in some EVs - I'm gonna say that given they got 4 per level up, and it was evenly distributed amongst all stats starting with HP, Bewear gets 24 Atk EVs, while Lycanroc gets 24 Def. This gets us 148 base Def.


    Now, keep in mind that this is my first time doing this sort of thing, and it's all based off of random guesses for EVs and IVs. Also, I'm super tired and just got up. Thus, take this with a grain of salt. However, I do expect that Lycanroc Dusk will have a high defense stat. I'm thinking that based off of this, they might be giving a huge buff to Lycanroc's stats.

    Oops, must have misread it.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  6. Marty

    Marty Always more to find
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    It actually lost 96 HP from Hammer Arm; its HP hadn't stopped going down when the video cuts to it using Counter. You can see behind the text box that it has 27 HP left at that point. This means in the worst possible scenario, Dusk could have exactly the same base HP and Defense as Midday.
    Pikachu315111, DHR-107 and Kurona like this.
  7. Rarycaris

    Rarycaris

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    What's the absolute worst possible? As in, assuming Lycanroc is fully EV'd and IV'd with a positive nature and Bewear has no IVs or EVs in anything and has an attack reducing nature.
  8. Cainchin

    Cainchin

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    I really like everything about Lycanroc-Dusk the design is a great improvement, It gets Counter and Accelerock boosted by Tough Claws to a power of almost 80 counting stab (40*1,5= 60) (60*1,33= 79,8) 79 Bp rounded down.

    I really like how good Tough claws accelerock could be. I hope Lycanroc Dusk also gets SD, Rock polish or even Bulk up like its counterparts.

    A drawback I can see is egg moves unless they come with the Rockruff event because then we miss on Tough claws boosted Sucker Punch, Firefang and Thunderfang. Lycanroc Dusk still can use Tough claws boosted Crunch, Quick attack, Brick break, Reversal assuming it gets the same pool as previous forms.

    The video that shows Lycanroc receiving the Hammer arm attack makes me think Lycanroc-Dusk might have better defenses than midday and more on the level of Midnight. I don't know about precise calcs of damage but using 0Iv's 0 Ev's and bold nature on bewear with the bulk of lycanrock midnight with 0 hp iv's the numbers in a certain range are posible so Lycanrock dusk might have the best of the 2 lycanrocs the bulk of midnight and speed of midday.

    I love that its eyes become red when it attacks.

    We also got confirmation that is pure rock type and its height and weight being 2'07/0.8m tall and weigh 55.1lbs/25kg

    The wild battle Ost was amazing too it has the more rock'n roll feels.

    Poor talonflame they added salt to his wounds by being the punching bag of Lycanroc-Dusk I guess you could say he got a solid rock L.

    The biggest worry I have is Lycanroc Dusk possibly being counted as a special pokemon and not allowed in Cartbridge ladder for the usual ingame ladder format just like A-Gren.

    I like the new Hp bars background.

    I really don't know about anything else to bring up that isn't just pure speculation which would be bad for the thread.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  9. Melons-N-Soda

    Melons-N-Soda

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    I literally can't think of anything but Crash Bandicoot with that color palette when I see the new Lycanroc forme.

    There isn't much meat to this trailer though. I expected more, but hey, that Lycanroc has fucking Tough Claws. I just hope there's tutors or some shit like that, as Lycanroc's movepool is terrible ATM. (Give it Superpower at least)
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  10. Prof. Almeida

    Prof. Almeida

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    Oh man, I'm so hyped. I hope D-Lycanroc can be used for VGC.
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  11. Magcargo

    Magcargo Five Star
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    This is pretty minor, but I'm really loving the new battle theme. Sounds a lot more energetic than the one in Sun and Moon and has a nice futuristic vibe.
  12. Reviloja753

    Reviloja753

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    Lycanroc-Dusk is looking EXTREMELY powerful. For one, it is an event Pokémon (at least somewhat) based on the anime, just like Ash-Greninja. Seeing how good Ash Gren is, that's a good sign. Secondly, it has TOUGH CLAWS. It has Tough Claws Accelerock and likely has Sucker Punch. Ash Greninja didn't have Gunk Shot as that was a tutor last gen. However, since tutors are returning (probably) I don't know how long that will remain true. Also, there are many moves that the Lycanroc forms could potentially get via tutor, such as the elemental punches.
    MaahirMomtaz12 likes this.
  13. Kurona

    Kurona

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    I really like the new wild battle theme. The remixing reminds me of the wonders BW2 did to BW's battle themes.
  14. Siggu

    Siggu

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    The battle theme and interface are nice. Lycanroc's not the case, but that's obvious (and it's an event, so I can avoid it).

    And yet... I want some info on so that I can choose on whether to pick Ultra Moon (to follow on Moon) or Ultra Sun =/
  15. Prof. Almeida

    Prof. Almeida

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    Any way to do the math with this data?
  16. Siggu

    Siggu

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    I assume he's going with Bewear having 0 Attack IVs and EVs and an attack-reducing nature whereas that dusk thing has max HP and Defense EVs and IVs and a defense-boosting nature.

    Game Freak wants to oversell the Pokemon, naturally. I remember one of the SM trailers depicting Zygarde-C OHKOing a Garchomp with Core Enforcer, which I guess cannot happen with regular trained Pokemon.
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  17. Rarycaris

    Rarycaris

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    With Garchomp's IVs at 0, it can work without an item: 252+ SpA Zygarde-Complete Core Enforcer vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 380-450 (116.5 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    I also remember people speculating about Solgaleo's attack stat from the fact that Sunsteel Strike OHKO'd Salamence, which even at 0IVs for Salamence is only possible with either an item or a high roll: 252+ Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 267-315 (89 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
  18. Karxrida

    Karxrida People who aren't Blake > Blake
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    Lycanroc Dusk's design is super lazy, god. It's just a orange version of Midday with Midnight's hair slapped on its back.

    At least the Necrozma attatchments for Solgaleo and Lunala look like armor.
  19. Siggu

    Siggu

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    That's my point - to oversell a Pokemon's capabilities they would even resort to lowered IVs or intentionally high rolls so that it will look powerful.
  20. Marty

    Marty Always more to find
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    What Siggu said, except I didn't assume +/- Natures since I've never known them to bother with that in these Pokemon showcases. All this particular part of the showcase had to do was ensure Lycanroc survived any roll from Hammer Arm and also have said roll do enough damage that Counter could OHKO back. 31/252 has also been used before, as recently as last year with Pyukumuku's HP against Hariyama so Innards Out would KO it from half. I remember people panicking at the time since assuming 0/0 in that case meant it could have 100+ base HP.

    In any case, the takeaway here is that this Lycanroc forme is probably not going to be known for its defensive capabilities unless they're massively altering the precedent set by its other two formes.
  21. MattL

    MattL I have discovered a truly remarkable CT which this box is t-
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    Scenario 1: The level 40 Bewear uses Hammer Arm vs a level 43 Lycanroc-Dusk, and it is left with 27/123 HP: http://prntscr.com/g7e86q

    Assuming both Pokemon have 0 EVs and IVs in everything, and neutral natures:

    Then Lycanroc-Dusk has exactly base 82 HP. It can have between base 114 Defense (in which case 96 damage is a min roll) and base 141 Defense (in which case 96 damage is a max roll).

    Assuming both Pokemon have 252 EVs and 31 IVs in everything, and neutral natures:

    Then Lycanroc-Dusk has exactly base 35 HP. Because of how ridiculous this is, I think it's pretty safe to assume this isn't the case. I also won't be considering this case in the next scenario due to how unlikely it is.

    Assuming both Pokemon have 0 EVs and 31 IVs in everything, and neutral natures:

    Then Lycanroc-Dusk has either base 66 or 67 HP. It can have between base 112 Defense (in which case 96 damage is a min roll) and base 142 Defense (in which case 96 damage is a max roll). This is the case regardless of whether it has base 66 or 67 HP.
    ________________________________________________________

    Scenario 2: The level 43 Lycanroc-Dusk OHKOs the level 42 Talonflame with Tough Claws-boosted Accelerock.

    Assuming both Pokemon have 0 EVs and IVs in everything, and neutral natures:

    Then Lycanroc-Dusk has at least base 63 Attack.

    Assuming both Pokemon have 0 EVs and 31 IVs in everything, and neutral natures:

    Then Lycanroc-Dusk has at least base 70 Attack.
    ________________________________________________________

    Conclusion: It is very likely that Lycanroc-Dusk has a mediocre HP stat and a high Defense stat. Its Attack stat is also most likely not extremely low.
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  22. Prof. Almeida

    Prof. Almeida

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    That's actually not that bad, considering Tough Claws and the Punch it might pack.
  23. Kurona

    Kurona

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    I'm guessing that since it was a STAB tough claws accelrock vs. friggin' Talonflame, it's impossible to work out anything about Lycanroc-Dusk's attack stat other than "it's not as pitifully low as 7"?
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  24. Rapti

    Rapti

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    I like Lycanroc-D's design in principle but boy is it's model lazy
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
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  25. Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111 JAPE Judge! New JAPEs: Gen VII Ghosts & USUM Ultra Beasts!
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    Oh, this is open! Some quick opinions:

    Lycanroc Dusk:
    Design:
    Looks alright, though I do wish it had more traits of Midnight's design in it. Right now it's an Orange Midday with Midnight's hair (and I guess its eyes glow red when attacking). I think it should at least had the abdomen ribs, maybe also make its back feet bigger to reference Midnight's larger front paws and give it some of its own style.
    Stats: From the video we saw and the calculations done by people above, sounds like it's design isn't the only thing being based off Midday. Thinking about it, since its an Event Pokemon (we'll get to that), would it be possible it'll have a higher BST? Midday's stats are 75/115/65/55/65/112//487 and Midnight's is 85/115/75/55/75/82//487. I'm wondering if they wouldn't give it the best of both for a BST of 85/115/75/55/75/112//517. It's not that high of a BST (the Starters are higher than it) and Counter is a negative priority move to begin with so it can still use it just fine. It'll pretty much play like a slightly bulkier Midday, which I don't think is that bad.
    Ability & Moves: Tough Claws is always a nice Ability for a physically offensive Pokemon to have, though Lycanroc Dusk may get limited use out of it. Looking through their movepool here are their notable moves that can take advantage of Tough Claws (minus Egg Moves because its an Event Pokemon):
    • Accelerock: Starting with the STAB, it's also the only Rock-type move that makes contact that it knows. Honestly I think Rock-types prefer having No Guard, which Lycanroc Midnight had, to bypass Rock-types moves having imperfect accuracy. However having a Rock-type Quick Attack of 78 Power is pretty handy.
    • Dark: Crunch
    • Fighting: Reversal, Brick Break (TM)
    • Normal: Rock Climb, Return (TM), Facade (TM)
    Yeah, it just barely gets enough to have four contact moves of different types and even then it's not that great coverage (though maybe Move Tutors may help with that). This is also excluding they think you're going to have Counter on it which, yeah, no. Sorry GF, Lycanroc ain't dethroning Wobbuffet. I went over this on another thread but I'll summarize it here: I have no clue why GF thought Lycanroc Midnight would make a good Counter Pokemon. It doesn't really have the stats nor Ability to support it (and this especially goes for Lycanroc Dusk) and it doesn't get Mirror Coat so it's completely open on the Special side. And with Dusk having great speed, an increased priority STAB, and Power increasing Ability which Counter doesn't take advantage of further puts a nail in the coffin for it using Counter. But back on point, Dusk just gets enough though this excludes Status Moves (gets Stealth Rock) and what Move Tutors might give it so it could carve out a niche for itself yet.
    Event Pokemon: So is this a new thing now? A normal Pokemon given something special and used as an early promotion event gimmick? I'm not sure if I like that, especially if it encourages the anime writers to keep making Ash a special snowflake (he's suppose to be an "every man" character, him being special comes from his strategies and working with his Pokemon's strengths and weaknesses, not that one of his Pokemon gets a special power-up no one else gets). Also, were the Mythical Pokemon not enough? Like in ORAS I thought we were getting to a point where there were so many Mythical Pokemon that GF started to de-mythified some just so they didn't need to plan an Event to distribute it in the future (ORAS did this with Deoxys, hoping Sinnoh remakes would do this with Darkrai and maybe Manaphy (or use it as the early promotion event)). But now we're getting these special Event Pokemon who are super versions of normal Pokemon. Are they going to be gen exclusive like the Spiky-Eared Pichu? If not, would you ever plan on releasing them again even though they're closely tied to the anime who might not feature that Pokemon once that gen arc is over? Do they plan on making them available normally at some point? This just feels like a slippery slope I think GF should jump off of while they're still at the top.

    Lycanroc Trailer: Only thing I can say I like the remix of the SM wild battle music. :) But nothing else to really take form it.

    Comment Responses:
    I think Lycanroc Dusk is going to be very cut & paste of both Lycanroc Midday & Midnight, so any moves they get I'm sure Dusk is getting too (including the exclusives moves). I'd say the question is more on what Move Tutors will it get. Would be nice if the special Rockruff that evolves into Dusk came with Fire Fang, Thunder Fang, and Sucker Punch (BTW why no Ice Fang?) but I kind of doubt it, though maybe for this reason they may make them Tutor moves?

    Hmm, opponent has (dark) green HP bar while player has (dark) blue. I wonder if there's a significance to that. Would be neat that depending on your opponent the colors are different. Your Pokemon are always blue, Wild Pokemon are green, Trainer's Pokemon are red, Rival is orange, villain group is black with special variants for admins & boss, Gym Leaders/Captains is bronze, Kahuna/Elite Four is Silver, Champion is gold, Legendary Pokemon is purple... sorry, got out of hand there.

    Geez, even in Pokemon I can't escape Crash (two playthrough channels I watch are playing through the Crash trilogy games).

    Well, Midnight might be able to get the Punches but I'm not sure about Midday and Dusk. Also, Midnight looks more of a slasher so even then chances aren't looking so great (wait, why doesn't Lycanroc get Shadow Claw from TM? Heck, probably could also get Aerial Ace & False Swipe too. And why not also Slash, Night Slash, and Metal Claw?).

    Ah yes, let's not overlook that. Or first piece of USUM news... and it's about the early promotion event and not really anything indicative of the games themselves. Also, this news was first and second given to use via Pokenchi and CoroCoro, aka a television broadcast and a magazine. You know, two forms of media with limited audience range instead of using THE GOD DAMN USUM WEBSITE!

    Now, this is an Event promotion so at first I was willing to overlook it... but then I remembered that outside the announcement trailer this has been the only new bit of information about the games.

    GF, we all know it being a Pokemon game alone will sell a million copies, but it ain't going to look great for the first few weeks of sales if you don't tell us about the game! And if you're trying to keep what you did a surprise there's plenty ways of doing it than keeping completely quiet. At least tell us when you plan on giving us more info! It's been 2 months since you announced it and there's 2 months before it releases! We've reached the midpoint, NOW is the time!
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