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Little Cup Metagame Development
- Thread starter eric the espeon
- Start date
- Status
i don't mean to sound dumb, but when i used to play pokemon stadium 1, in little cup lv5's, i would always use pokemon that could learn dragon rage like charmander and dratini and would ohko or almost on everything. is this strategy at all relevent to a competitive metagame or am i just living in the past?
Scarfed Dragon Rages would OHKO everything, so it and Sonicboom are banned.
Code:
Stat--base min- min max max+
HP----50---N/A--21---24---N/A
Att----52---9----11---14----15
Def---48----9----11---14---15
Sp.A--65---11---13---16---17
Sp.D--50---9----11---14---15
Spe---55---10--12---15---16name: Anti Weather
move 1: Surf
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Hp[Grass]
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Cloud Nine
nature: Naive
evs: 36 Atk/ 236 SAtk/ 236 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is designed specifically to counter weather teams. Cloud Nine nullifies weather effects bringing Swift Swim and Chlorophyll Pokémon crashing down to normal speed. The scarf lets him hit 24 Speed, which is enough to out speed nearly all non-scarfers. The coverage of this set allows Psyduck to kill the most common weather abusers as well. Surf and Ice Beam take care of all SunnyBeamers. HP Grass is there to hit any Swift Swim abusers.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Band Duck
move 1: Waterfall
move 2: Cross Chop
move 3: Shadow Claw
move 4: Return
item: Choice Band
ability: Cloud Nine.
nature: Adamant
evs: 84 Hp/ 184 Atk/ 240 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Physical Psyduck packs fantastic type coverage. Waterfall and Return together are unresisted in LC. These moves are backed up by the Ghost and Fighting combination, which is also unresisted, showing the incredible offensive potency CBDuck has. Adamant is the best nature to maximise the effects of the Choice Band. Cloud Nine is preferred to Damp so it can come in to disrupt weather sweeps.</p>
[SET]
name: SubPunch
move 1: Focus Punch
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Hypnosis/ Light Screen/ Return
item: Oran Berry
ability: Cloud Nine
nature: Adamant
evs: 84 HP/ 184 Atk/ 240 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Psyduck has a lot of advantages over other SubPunchers. Hypnosis and Light Screen allow it to keep its Substitutes intact, while Cloud Nine nullifies Sandstorm and Hail damage that can hamper a SubPuncher's sweep. If you opt for Return as the 4th move, then choose Life Orb instead of Oran Berry to maximize attacking power. </p>
[Other Options]
<p>Zen Headbutt could be used on the Choice Band and SubPunch sets to prevent Croakgunk from beating it, Psychic could be used on the Anti weather set. Toxic could be used on the SubPunch set, but generally in Little Cup you’ll want to be attacking rather than inflicting status. Amnesia and Calm Mind may seem like good options, but Psyduck is too slow and frail too effectively pull off a set-up sweep, to the same extent Choice Specs could work but would be too hard to pull off. Hydro Pump is an option over Surf on any of the sets, but missing is not an option for Psyduck.</p>
[EVs]
<p>EV’s are pretty straight forward, you’re nearly always going to run max speed on Psyduck and then proceed to max out whichever attacking stat you’re using and put the leftovers into Hp. If you run Light Screen on the SubPunch set then run 196 HP/ 196 Atk/ 116 Def. This allows for a far more bulky SubPuncher. </p>
[Opinion]
<p>Psyduck fills a very specialist niche in Little Cup, it prevents weather sweepers without setting up its own weather, which in Little Cup is incredibly useful. As well as this Psyduck’s versatility and decent stat spread allows it to be a very unpredictable threat.</p>
[Counters]
<p>Psyduck’s counters depend largely on its move set. Chinchou can come in on nearly anything Psyduck carries, but will have to watch out for Hidden Power Grass and Focus Punch. Arguably, the best counter to Psyduck is Croagunk, which is immune to its STAB, resists fighting, and usually packs priority to outspeed Scarf sets. Munchlax also gets note on a Sunny Day team, as its Thick Fat ability resists both Ice and Fire, the two attacking types that Psyduck uses to threaten Grass-types, and its high Special Defense can allow it to sponge Surfs as well. It deals 15-18 damage with a boosted Pursuit, which either cripples Psyduck or prevents it from coming in with Stealth Rocks up.</p>
Added to OP.
I am new to little cup and am looking for un-developed threats to exploit. I found pikachu. As I look at this thing I wonder why it's not banned. We banned meditite because it had 56 atk right? well with light ball guess what? pika hits 56 sp. atk and 32 atk with max evs in each. The one argument against banning meditite was the low bp of its moves. Guess what again? Pikachu gets a 120 bp physical stab move off 32 atk. Ouch. Add to that a 95 bp stab move in thunderbolt off 56 sp. atk and its not getting walled. Ever. Add to THAT the 90 base speed that I believe is only beaten by digletts 95 and murkrows 91. With the mechanics of evs in LC I think it would be possible to make pika tie them. So with all this in mind..
Pikachu@ Light Ball
I'm not good at evs yet, but max speed and max sp atk rest in atk if possible.
Rash/Hasty
Brick Break
Thunderbolt
Volt Tackle
Hidden Power [Fire/Ice]
Hp fire would be for bronzor while brick break does 87-103% to the most defensive munchlax. A ohko with stealth rock. Volt Tackle is like a kamakaze attack that will ohko most that don't resist it. Thunderbolt is the same, trading base power for no loss of health and a better stat to hit off of. Since there are no water/grounds (right?) in LC, grass knot is knot (haha) needed. I will use this to no end 'till it gets banned hoping it won't be, but to me, it looks like a way faster, more fragile, mix attacking meditite.
Pikachu@ Light Ball
I'm not good at evs yet, but max speed and max sp atk rest in atk if possible.
Rash/Hasty
Brick Break
Thunderbolt
Volt Tackle
Hidden Power [Fire/Ice]
Hp fire would be for bronzor while brick break does 87-103% to the most defensive munchlax. A ohko with stealth rock. Volt Tackle is like a kamakaze attack that will ohko most that don't resist it. Thunderbolt is the same, trading base power for no loss of health and a better stat to hit off of. Since there are no water/grounds (right?) in LC, grass knot is knot (haha) needed. I will use this to no end 'till it gets banned hoping it won't be, but to me, it looks like a way faster, more fragile, mix attacking meditite.
You can't use Pikachu in LC, as it's evolved from Pichu.
Tangela is still in the OU list in the first post. May want to clarify that it is truely banned.
http://rapidshare.com/files/125370083/LC_Stat_Calc.zip
Pokemon LC Stat program I got bored and made earlier today. Has the base stats of every LC Pokemon, the standard min-, min, max, max+ stats, and the max and max+ stats for +1 and +2 boosts.
Pokemon LC Stat program I got bored and made earlier today. Has the base stats of every LC Pokemon, the standard min-, min, max, max+ stats, and the max and max+ stats for +1 and +2 boosts.
You tell falsehoods. Even Pokemon Stadium 1 knew that Dragon Rage was broken, and banned it.
No, Light Ball doesn't work on Pichu. However, you can get Volt Tackle on your Pichu if you breed Pikachu or Raichu while holding one.
http://rapidshare.com/files/125854626/LC_Stats_Final.zip
EDIT: Updated to newest link. Includes defensive maximizations derived from X-Act's total harm formula, done at Eric's request.
EDIT: Updated to newest link. Includes defensive maximizations derived from X-Act's total harm formula, done at Eric's request.
Just got it to work and its great! Its even got the tiers and stuff, I highly recommend that everyone making a LC team download this program!
Added to OP, along with links to the newer warstorys.
Added to OP, along with links to the newer warstorys.
Diglett Little Cup Analysis
Code:
Stat Base Min- Min Max Max+
HP-----10--N/A--17--20--N/A
Att----55--10---12--15--16
Def----25---8----9--12--13
Sp.A---35---9---10--13--14
Sp.D---45---9---11--14--15
Spe----95--14---16--19--20[SET]
name: Revenge Killer of Choice
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Aerial Ace
move 4: Rock Slide / Pursuit
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Band
ability: Arena Trap
nature: Adamant / Jolly
evs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
ivs:
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Diglett's high base 95 Speed, coupled with Arena Trap, is what makes it one of the premier revenge-killers in Little Cup. Earthquake provides a powerful STAB move which will dent anything that doesn't resist it, regardless of the Choice Band boost. Sucker Punch allows you to pick off weakened foes, and is useful against slower pokemon that try to use priority-moves. Aerial Ace is included for its ability to hit both Grass and Bug types who resist Ground. In the last slot, Rock Slide will hit Flying-types whereas Pursuit will kill Misdreavus and Gastly that attempt to flee from the threat of Sucker Punch.</p>
<p>The choice of item (no pun intended) is purely up to preference. Diglett is already one of the fastest pokemon in Little Cup and the Choice Band boost allows it to OHKO many more pokemon with Earthquake. Choice Scarf, however, is a better option should you be wary of threats such as Dragon Dance Dratini and Rock Polish Rhyhorn as you can outspeed the aforementioned pokemon even with an Adamant nature with a Choice Scarf equipped.</p>
[SET]
name: Late Game Sweeper
move 1: Earthquake
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Aerial Ace
move 4: Rock Slide
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
ability: Arena Trap
nature: Jolly
evs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe
ivs:
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Look familiar? The main advantage of using a Life Orb set, is the ability to change attacks and so make Diglett less prone to the likes of Murkrow after using Earthquake. With the coverage provided by these four moves and taking into consideration its high speed, Diglett can actually mount a late-game clean up of an opponent's weakened team, with a Life Orbed Earthquake doing fatal or near fatal damage to anything that doesn't resist it.</p>
<p>Focus Sash can be used to get an extra kill in a scenario where an opponent switches in a pokemon that is immune to Earthquake, thinking that it has a Choice item, and then is KOed by another of Diglett's moves.</p>
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Diglett's movepool is shallow but of note, Shadow Claw provides a reliable move to hit levitating Ghosts that do not choose to switch out. Stealth Rock is also another option, but Diglett is best off attacking with its frail defences. It also does get a STAB special move in Earth Power but Earthquake has higher base power and runs off the higher of his attacking stats. A Choice Specs set could be a viable option with Diglett learning Sludge Bomb and AncientPower to go with Earth Power. A Hidden Power could also be used on such a set. Diglett's Special Attack is often overlooked but its max Special Attack is only two points lower than that of its Attack.</p>
[EVS]
<p>With its frail defences, just max out Diglett's Attack and Speed, which both need 236 EVs to achieve this effect. The remaining 36 EVs can raise Diglett's HP by one stat point.</p>
[OPINION]
<p>Diglett is not a direct threat to teams as such, but one must be wary to construct a team that is not overly vulnerable to Diglett. Even so, common pokemon such as Rhyhorn, Chinchou, Magmemite, Magby, Houndour and Elekid to name a few, are prone to being easily trapped and killed by Diglett and this list expands when pokemon are weakened. With its high Speed, STAB Earthquake and access to Sucker Punch, Diglett makes a fine revenge-killer.</p>
[COUNTERS]
<p>It is hard to define a Diglett counter, as if a pokemon is trapped by Arena Trap, you cannot switch in another pokemon. With that said, Bronzor shakes off anything that Diglett has to throw at it, as does Gligar with both pokemon being immune to Earthquake. A faster Diglett can come in and OHKO you if you are without Choice Scarf or use an Adamant nature and Trapinch can do a similar thing with Quick Attack if Diglett is weakened. Finally, Diglett is vulnerable to Pursuiters should it have a Choice Item, Murkrow is a prime example, with its immunity to Ground.</p>
With all of this popularity surrounding LC, I decided I should try it, to see if I like it or not. After looking through a bunch of Pokemon that would be fun to use, I noticed Clamperl among the BL list. Why is Clamperl in BL? Banning Tangela because of Sunny Day to me seems no different than a banning of Clamperl. With Deepsea Tooth Clamperl gets a Sp.Atk score rivaling Deoxys-A. I don't understand how it is BL. maybe it isn't infact Broken and I am just wrong about it being overpowered, but you would think it would at least be OU, because of its massive Sp.Atk score, similar to why Meditite is banned.
Sure, some may say that it needs Trick Room in affect to be deadly, but if the reason for banning Tangela is that it's deadly in Sunny Day, why stops people from making the claim that Clamperl is uber because it's deadly in Trick Room. Just throwing this out there, because it seems interesting to me.
Sure, some may say that it needs Trick Room in affect to be deadly, but if the reason for banning Tangela is that it's deadly in Sunny Day, why stops people from making the claim that Clamperl is uber because it's deadly in Trick Room. Just throwing this out there, because it seems interesting to me.
This is an issue being discussed on the LC forum atm and the general feeling is that Clamperl should not be banned yet. This is because:
~ it does not have Tangela's massive defence(s) and so cannot switch in as freely
~ it cannot set up Trick Room, as Tangela can set up Sunny Day
~ Trick Room cannot be extended but Sunny Day can, and there are more users of the latter
~ therefore, Clamperl can be stalled out under Trick Room, as it only has three turns effectively since one turn is wasted using the actual move and Clamperl is unlikely to switch in one the next turn due to shitty defences and then you only need to juggle Water/Ice/Grass resistors for 3 turns at most in all likelihood, and once TR is over it will pretty much die quickly.
It is in BL because it is to use it is hard to use effectively without building a TR team around it, so it is not used often. Without TR its pretty much useless in LC.
~ it does not have Tangela's massive defence(s) and so cannot switch in as freely
~ it cannot set up Trick Room, as Tangela can set up Sunny Day
~ Trick Room cannot be extended but Sunny Day can, and there are more users of the latter
~ therefore, Clamperl can be stalled out under Trick Room, as it only has three turns effectively since one turn is wasted using the actual move and Clamperl is unlikely to switch in one the next turn due to shitty defences and then you only need to juggle Water/Ice/Grass resistors for 3 turns at most in all likelihood, and once TR is over it will pretty much die quickly.
It is in BL because it is to use it is hard to use effectively without building a TR team around it, so it is not used often. Without TR its pretty much useless in LC.
-I'll admit, it doesn't have Tangela's defensive capabilities but base 85 defense is pretty good.
-True, it can't set up TR but having something as common and OU as Bronzor do it for you is good.
-Yeah, having Sunny Day last 8 turns is very nice compared to Trick Room's 5.
-It's not easy to stall it out though because Stab Surf coming off it's Sp.Atk is going to severely hurt, even if you resist it. It doesn't have to have HP Grass, it could have electric, not like that's important to this discussion though. And Clamperl's defenses aren't too shity. Water is pretty good typing and although his HP is low, it's base defense is good. And with the fact that he's being used in TR, you don't have to use EV's investing in Speed like you would for Tangela, and can use them in other places like HP or his defenses.
I will agree, he may not be Uber material, but I don't think he is BL. At least he is being discussed though, that's good. I think that's more important than if he becomes uber or not. I did not see him mentioned in this entire thread and with the fact that he was BL, I just thought that most people forgot about him and DeepSea tooth. And a Trick Room team shouldn't be too hard to build, a lot of OU pokemon can be in the team, like Bronzor and Munchlax, so just adding Trick Room onto two pokemon and adding Clamperl to your team isn't that hard to do.
I posted this on zetaboards, and since it was moved to Completed, I'll put it here:
Cranidos
[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Stone Edge/Head Smash
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Zen Headbutt/Pursuit
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Naughty
evs: 236 Atk/212 Spd/36 SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p> If you like to beast all over your opponents' leads, this is the dinosaur for you. Cranidos has the power to easily trump over the most common LC starters (according to this guide), delivering a smashing OHKO to the majority of the bunch, and a 2HKO to the more bulky pokemon, like Bronzor and Hippopotas. Mold Breaker is a great ability to have, for Bronzor and Gastly won't appreciate the loss of their Ground immunities.</p>
<p>On the note of Hippopotas, as you will see below, the little hippo isn't fazed by Stone Edge, which isn't even a guaranteed 3HKO. That is the reason for Ice Beam. It will always 2HKO, and even if they switch after the first attack, it's a nasty little surprise.</p>
<p>Deciding between Head Smash and Stone Edge can be tough. Both have the same accuracy, so that is not a reason to pick one over the other. You must decide based on risk and return. With STAB, Head Smash has a 75 base point attack advantage over SE, but at the cost of considerable recoil damage. Stone Edge on the other hand has a high rate of critical hits, meaning that you could very easily deal more damage without the recoil. However, neither ruins the set in either way, so it's a judgement call.
<p>The other moveslot is up to you really. Cranidos gets the job done with his first three slots, so it depends on whether you have a Fighting weak or whether you want to nail those annoying Ghosts on the switch.</p>
[DAMAGE CALCS]
NP Meowth: 128.57% - 152.38% (Stone Edge)
Snover: 200.00% - 232.00% (Stone Edge, 252 HP Snover)
Gastly: 210.53% - 247.37% (Earthquake)
Abra: 115.79% - 136.84% (Earthquake)
Hippopotas: 30.77% - 38.46% (Stone Edge, 252 HP/Def Hippo)
Hippopotas: 61.54% - 73.08% (Ice Beam, 252 HP Hippo)
Gligar: 103.85% - 119.23% (Ice Beam, 252 HP Gligar)
[SET]
Name: Rock Polish
move 1: Stone Edge
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Zen Headbutt/Pursuit
move 4: Rock Polish
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 212 Spd/ 236 Atk/ 62 HP
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The standard Rampardos set comes from OU to LC in the form of Cranidos. The strategy here is simple. Switch in on the switch, or for a fake revenge kill. Hopefully your opponent will switch, but in the event they use a lethal attack, you have Sash to save you. Rock Polish before all else. 212 Spd and Jolly will put you at a nice 32 speed, faster than any Scarfer. You now hold the position of power with Mold Breaker, which eliminates Levitaters as a threat. Beware of priority moves.</p>
[SET]
Name: Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Stone Edge/Head Smash
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Hammer Arm
move 4: Zen Headbutt/Crunch/Ice Beam
item: Iron Ball
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Brave
evs: 236 Atk/ 220 HP/ 36 SpD
ivs: 0 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Your standard run-of-the-mill Trick Room sweeper. Cranidos already has a pretty low speed stat (despite what the above sets might tell you), but Iron Ball will bring you to a whole new low. Nothing's really different about the spread here: max attack, SE, Earthquake. Hammer Arm is a powerful move that hits pokemon that Cranidos might ordinarily have a bit of trouble dealing with, like Munchlax. Not to mention that it helps you on your way to become the "fastest" pokemon around. Use Ice Beam if you think you're going to be dealing with mono-Grassers under TR.</p>
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Cranidos unfortunately doesn't have much in the way of other options, unless you want to to border on gimmicky, unproductive sets. Whirlwind is an interesting phazer, and could possibly be used for forcing a switch if you manage to bring in something that really doesn't want to be on the field. Fling was an idea I was toying around with for the TR set, as Flinging an Iron ball gives you a base 130 Dark attack. Crunch may be up your alley if you really have trouble with Ghosts, as it's really much more effective at hitting the ones who stay in than Pursuit. And Rock Slide could have potential for its 30% flinch chance and 90% accuracy, but I'm not so sure.</p>
[EVs]
<p>All sets are built to take advantage of Cranidos' massive attack and mediocre speed. Use the rest of your EVs to boost HP, because although the little dino isn't defensive enough to take super effective hits, it should be able to withstand some neutral hits from Threat 2 and 3 pokemon.</p>
<p>An alternate Scarf set I designed is to run Lonely with 156 Atk/142 HP/132 Spd/40 SpD/36 SpA. Doing so will let you keep that nice OHKO against Gligar, as well as all the other OHKOs afforded by running max attack. You also barely outspeed anything not Scarfed. This gives you plenty of EVs to put into your defenses to try and keep yourself alive.</p>
[OPINION]
<p>Cranidos is one of those little anomalies of life. It's got one of the worst special attack bases in the metagame, yet one of the best special movepools you could ask for in Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam. However, Mold Breaker, Earthquake, and Stone Edge make you forget about that while you're wailing on pretty much every pokemon for at least neutral damage. With few reliable counters, expect the little dino to take at least one pokemon with it before it goes extinct.</p>
<p>Cranidos also enjoys its Rock typing, which makes it a powerful ally for a Hippopotas. Sandstorm brings its special defense to a respectable 15.</p>
<p>Overall, Cranidos is a strong pokemon with a surprisingly diverse movepool. It seems like, while his evolved form is unable to shine in a metagame of fast, strong, offensive sweepers, in Little Cup, his poor defensive stats and mediocre speed don't matter much in comparison to his competition. With proper team support to handle those bulky walls, this little dino can take the LC scene by storm.</p>
[COUNTERS]
<p>Like the Garchomp of OU, Cranidos has few reliable "counters." Rather, it has "revenge killers." With 125 base attack and excellent type coverage in SE and Earthquake, Cranidos is well-equipped to handle any pokemon that comes its way.</p>
<p>Some definite counters are Hippopotas, and Exeggcute. Against the Scarf set, Bronzor will gladly take advantage of SE to switch in, taking only 36% max. However, Earthquake is a 2HKO against it, so keep it away from the Rock Polish set. Hippo is pretty bulky, and enjoys the same amount of damage that Bronzor takes from any of the dino's physical attacks. Exeggcute, while not as defensively-oriented as the previous two, is resistant to both EQ, and a smart trainer should be wary of the double status set when switching.</p>
<p>For the Rock Polish set, the one thing you have to fear are priority moves. Even a CB Diglett cannot OHKO you with Sucker Punch, but it will wear you down quickly, and leave to open to pressure from Buizel, Eevee, Ratatta, and any other priority pokemon. Other than that, the diversity of the set will keep you covered.</p>
Cranidos
Code:
Stat--Base Min- Min Max Max+
HP----67---N/A--23--26--N/A
Atk---125--15---19--22--24
Def---40---8----10--13--14
SpA---30---7----9---12--13
SpD---30---7----9---12--13
Spd---58---9----12--15--16[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Stone Edge/Head Smash
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Zen Headbutt/Pursuit
move 4: Ice Beam
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Naughty
evs: 236 Atk/212 Spd/36 SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p> If you like to beast all over your opponents' leads, this is the dinosaur for you. Cranidos has the power to easily trump over the most common LC starters (according to this guide), delivering a smashing OHKO to the majority of the bunch, and a 2HKO to the more bulky pokemon, like Bronzor and Hippopotas. Mold Breaker is a great ability to have, for Bronzor and Gastly won't appreciate the loss of their Ground immunities.</p>
<p>On the note of Hippopotas, as you will see below, the little hippo isn't fazed by Stone Edge, which isn't even a guaranteed 3HKO. That is the reason for Ice Beam. It will always 2HKO, and even if they switch after the first attack, it's a nasty little surprise.</p>
<p>Deciding between Head Smash and Stone Edge can be tough. Both have the same accuracy, so that is not a reason to pick one over the other. You must decide based on risk and return. With STAB, Head Smash has a 75 base point attack advantage over SE, but at the cost of considerable recoil damage. Stone Edge on the other hand has a high rate of critical hits, meaning that you could very easily deal more damage without the recoil. However, neither ruins the set in either way, so it's a judgement call.
<p>The other moveslot is up to you really. Cranidos gets the job done with his first three slots, so it depends on whether you have a Fighting weak or whether you want to nail those annoying Ghosts on the switch.</p>
[DAMAGE CALCS]
NP Meowth: 128.57% - 152.38% (Stone Edge)
Snover: 200.00% - 232.00% (Stone Edge, 252 HP Snover)
Gastly: 210.53% - 247.37% (Earthquake)
Abra: 115.79% - 136.84% (Earthquake)
Hippopotas: 30.77% - 38.46% (Stone Edge, 252 HP/Def Hippo)
Hippopotas: 61.54% - 73.08% (Ice Beam, 252 HP Hippo)
Gligar: 103.85% - 119.23% (Ice Beam, 252 HP Gligar)
[SET]
Name: Rock Polish
move 1: Stone Edge
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Zen Headbutt/Pursuit
move 4: Rock Polish
item: Focus Sash
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Jolly
evs: 212 Spd/ 236 Atk/ 62 HP
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The standard Rampardos set comes from OU to LC in the form of Cranidos. The strategy here is simple. Switch in on the switch, or for a fake revenge kill. Hopefully your opponent will switch, but in the event they use a lethal attack, you have Sash to save you. Rock Polish before all else. 212 Spd and Jolly will put you at a nice 32 speed, faster than any Scarfer. You now hold the position of power with Mold Breaker, which eliminates Levitaters as a threat. Beware of priority moves.</p>
[SET]
Name: Trick Room Sweeper
move 1: Stone Edge/Head Smash
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Hammer Arm
move 4: Zen Headbutt/Crunch/Ice Beam
item: Iron Ball
ability: Mold Breaker
nature: Brave
evs: 236 Atk/ 220 HP/ 36 SpD
ivs: 0 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Your standard run-of-the-mill Trick Room sweeper. Cranidos already has a pretty low speed stat (despite what the above sets might tell you), but Iron Ball will bring you to a whole new low. Nothing's really different about the spread here: max attack, SE, Earthquake. Hammer Arm is a powerful move that hits pokemon that Cranidos might ordinarily have a bit of trouble dealing with, like Munchlax. Not to mention that it helps you on your way to become the "fastest" pokemon around. Use Ice Beam if you think you're going to be dealing with mono-Grassers under TR.</p>
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Cranidos unfortunately doesn't have much in the way of other options, unless you want to to border on gimmicky, unproductive sets. Whirlwind is an interesting phazer, and could possibly be used for forcing a switch if you manage to bring in something that really doesn't want to be on the field. Fling was an idea I was toying around with for the TR set, as Flinging an Iron ball gives you a base 130 Dark attack. Crunch may be up your alley if you really have trouble with Ghosts, as it's really much more effective at hitting the ones who stay in than Pursuit. And Rock Slide could have potential for its 30% flinch chance and 90% accuracy, but I'm not so sure.</p>
[EVs]
<p>All sets are built to take advantage of Cranidos' massive attack and mediocre speed. Use the rest of your EVs to boost HP, because although the little dino isn't defensive enough to take super effective hits, it should be able to withstand some neutral hits from Threat 2 and 3 pokemon.</p>
<p>An alternate Scarf set I designed is to run Lonely with 156 Atk/142 HP/132 Spd/40 SpD/36 SpA. Doing so will let you keep that nice OHKO against Gligar, as well as all the other OHKOs afforded by running max attack. You also barely outspeed anything not Scarfed. This gives you plenty of EVs to put into your defenses to try and keep yourself alive.</p>
[OPINION]
<p>Cranidos is one of those little anomalies of life. It's got one of the worst special attack bases in the metagame, yet one of the best special movepools you could ask for in Thunderbolt, Flamethrower, and Ice Beam. However, Mold Breaker, Earthquake, and Stone Edge make you forget about that while you're wailing on pretty much every pokemon for at least neutral damage. With few reliable counters, expect the little dino to take at least one pokemon with it before it goes extinct.</p>
<p>Cranidos also enjoys its Rock typing, which makes it a powerful ally for a Hippopotas. Sandstorm brings its special defense to a respectable 15.</p>
<p>Overall, Cranidos is a strong pokemon with a surprisingly diverse movepool. It seems like, while his evolved form is unable to shine in a metagame of fast, strong, offensive sweepers, in Little Cup, his poor defensive stats and mediocre speed don't matter much in comparison to his competition. With proper team support to handle those bulky walls, this little dino can take the LC scene by storm.</p>
[COUNTERS]
<p>Like the Garchomp of OU, Cranidos has few reliable "counters." Rather, it has "revenge killers." With 125 base attack and excellent type coverage in SE and Earthquake, Cranidos is well-equipped to handle any pokemon that comes its way.</p>
<p>Some definite counters are Hippopotas, and Exeggcute. Against the Scarf set, Bronzor will gladly take advantage of SE to switch in, taking only 36% max. However, Earthquake is a 2HKO against it, so keep it away from the Rock Polish set. Hippo is pretty bulky, and enjoys the same amount of damage that Bronzor takes from any of the dino's physical attacks. Exeggcute, while not as defensively-oriented as the previous two, is resistant to both EQ, and a smart trainer should be wary of the double status set when switching.</p>
<p>For the Rock Polish set, the one thing you have to fear are priority moves. Even a CB Diglett cannot OHKO you with Sucker Punch, but it will wear you down quickly, and leave to open to pressure from Buizel, Eevee, Ratatta, and any other priority pokemon. Other than that, the diversity of the set will keep you covered.</p>
Also my Houndour analysis:
Houndour
[SET]
Name: Nasty Plotter
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 4: Nasty Plot
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid
evs: 236 Spd/156 HP/40 SpA/40 SpD
ivs: 31 HP/31 Atk/30 Def/30 SpA/30 SpD/30 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Standard NP set. The idea here is to switch the pooch in on a Psychic or Ghost attack. From that point, you either kill with Dark Pulse, or, in the event their pokemon switches out, Nasty Plot. With the special attack boost under your belt, you've got a lot of killing power. Even without it, the type coverage alloted by Dark Pulse/Flamethrower is pretty mighty. HP Fighting is for the annoying Normal types that laugh at your other special attacks, namely Munchlax. However, it's also a great weapon for the occasional Aron or Shieldon, which would otherwise scoff your Dark Pulses and take neutral from Flamethrower.</p>
<p>The first question that should come to mind when viewing this spread is why the special attack IVs aren't maxed. If you look over the damage calcs below, all of them were run without max special attack. I have run the same calculations with max EVs, and none of the values changed drastically enough to warrant an increase. Of course, this is no reason to disregard running max Spd and SpA. There are over 160 pokemon legal for Little Cup, and there's no way I could know if all of them are at least 2HKOs without max EVs. This spread is merely an alternative designed to KO the most prominent pokemon on the Threat List.</p>
[DAMAGE CALCULATIONS]
vs. Misdreavus: 121.74% - 143.48% (Dark Pulse, CM Misdreavus set)
vs. Duskull: 133.33% - 157.14% (Dark Pulse, 252 SpD Duskull)
vs. Dratini: 85.71% - 100.00% (Dark Pulse, DD Dratini set)
vs. Munchlax: 50.00% - 56.67% (HP Fighting, 252 SpD Munchlax)
vs. Gligar: 69.23% - 80.77% (Flamethrower, 252 HP Gligar)
vs. Murkrow: 108.00% - 128.00% (Fire Blast, 252 HP Murkrow)
[SET]
Name: Choice
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 4: Pursuit
item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid
evs: 196 Spd/196 SpA/76 HP
ivs: 31 HP/31 Atk/30 Def/30 SpA/30 SpD/30 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>There's quite a lot of power in the Specs set, but it lacks the speed necessary to make it a full-on threat. Similarly, the Scarf set will reach 21 speed, enough to outspeed any non-Scarfer, but it loses that killing edge. However, the type coverage this spread provides is insane. Without Nasty Plot, you now have a moveslot open for Pursuit, which, even with no attack and a negative nature, will OHKO any Ghost on the switch.</p>
[DAMAGE CALCS]
vs. Murkrow: 122.73% - 145.45% (Specs Flamethrower)
vs. Gligar: 100.00% - 119.23% (Specs Fire Blast)
vs. Munchlax: 60.00% - 70.00% (Specs HP Fighting, Max SpD Munchlax)
vs. Misdreavus: 122.73% - 140.91% (Pursuit, Switching Misdreavus)
[SET]
Name: CounterRevver
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Fire Fang
move 3: Reversal
move 4: Counter
item: Focus Sash
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Jolly
evs: 236 Spd/196 Atk/76 HP
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>More of a gimmick set than anything else really, but bound to get a KO if you play it right. Bring the pooch in to revenge kill something like a Ghost. If they switch, great. If they don't, you got a KO. Anyway, hopefully they bring in a physically-oriented pokemon, like a Diglett. Wait for them to attack, and counter. You'll faint the pokemon, and have a 150 BP Reversal at your disposal.</p>
<p>However, in my honest opinion, Houndour does not have the physical movepool required to pull off a sweep. Fire Fang does not make for a good move choice, but without Flame Blitz, that's as good as it gets.</p>
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Back in OU, I saw a Power Herb/Solarbeam set used effectively, which is no different from Little Cup. The NP set would be very good at utilizing this, if base 120 Grass moves are up your alley. Roar is a great phazing moves, but with the lack of stat uppers in LC besides Munchlax, you might not find it too advantageous. WoW is a good move, and it might be worth your while to find a space for it.</p>
<p>Using an Endure/Sub Salac set could potentially work very well, boosting Houndour's speed high enough to outspeed non-Scarfers. However, doing this would mean Munchlax would walk all over you without HP Fighting, and including it would require the loss of a STAB. By themselves, Substitute is probably the best choice if you're fast enough to outspeed whatever you're facing at the time, and setting one up after another when something faster switches in.</p>
[EVs]
<p>If you don't feel confident in Houndour's pretty average defenses, feel free to run max Spd and SpA on the NP set. This leaves you with 78 EVs to be devoted to HP, giving you an extra point.</p>
[OPINION]
<p>Houndour has great typing to go along with a great ability. Without the Earthquake and Close Combat whores of OU to worry about, Dark/Fire can really shine in a metagame filled with Ghosts, and Flash Fire lets you just say no to Misdreavus and Duskull. However, that's about all the little Hell pooch has going for it. 65 base speed is respectable, but no where near good enough to make Houndour a full-fledged threat, and without the boost from Nasty Plot or Specs, it loses the ability to reliably KO. All in all, Houndour is great at what it does (counter the Ghosts), but when it comes to anything else, it's just... average.</p>
[COUNTERS]
<p>Because of the type coverage afforded by Dark and Fire, there aren't too many pokemon that can reliably switch into the NP set. Without knowing what set you're up against, Diglett won't want to risk switching into a Houndour, only to find its Earthquake countered right back. Shieldon and Aron can't take the HP Fighting, though if up against a Choice set, Dark Pulse is an excellent move to switch in on. Omanyte and Kabuto can cause massive pains for the Hell pooch in Rain, and Kabuto has Aqua Jet.</p>
<p>Houndour is basically "countered" by anything faster than it is, but anything that switches in is going to lose a lot of health.</p>
Houndour
Code:
Stat--Base Min- Min Max Max+
HP----45---N/A--21--24--N/A
Atk---60---10---12--15--16
Def---30---8----9---12--13
SpA---80---12---14--17--18
SpD---50---9----11--14--15
Spd---65---11---13--16--17[SET]
Name: Nasty Plotter
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 4: Nasty Plot
item: Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid
evs: 236 Spd/156 HP/40 SpA/40 SpD
ivs: 31 HP/31 Atk/30 Def/30 SpA/30 SpD/30 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Standard NP set. The idea here is to switch the pooch in on a Psychic or Ghost attack. From that point, you either kill with Dark Pulse, or, in the event their pokemon switches out, Nasty Plot. With the special attack boost under your belt, you've got a lot of killing power. Even without it, the type coverage alloted by Dark Pulse/Flamethrower is pretty mighty. HP Fighting is for the annoying Normal types that laugh at your other special attacks, namely Munchlax. However, it's also a great weapon for the occasional Aron or Shieldon, which would otherwise scoff your Dark Pulses and take neutral from Flamethrower.</p>
<p>The first question that should come to mind when viewing this spread is why the special attack IVs aren't maxed. If you look over the damage calcs below, all of them were run without max special attack. I have run the same calculations with max EVs, and none of the values changed drastically enough to warrant an increase. Of course, this is no reason to disregard running max Spd and SpA. There are over 160 pokemon legal for Little Cup, and there's no way I could know if all of them are at least 2HKOs without max EVs. This spread is merely an alternative designed to KO the most prominent pokemon on the Threat List.</p>
[DAMAGE CALCULATIONS]
vs. Misdreavus: 121.74% - 143.48% (Dark Pulse, CM Misdreavus set)
vs. Duskull: 133.33% - 157.14% (Dark Pulse, 252 SpD Duskull)
vs. Dratini: 85.71% - 100.00% (Dark Pulse, DD Dratini set)
vs. Munchlax: 50.00% - 56.67% (HP Fighting, 252 SpD Munchlax)
vs. Gligar: 69.23% - 80.77% (Flamethrower, 252 HP Gligar)
vs. Murkrow: 108.00% - 128.00% (Fire Blast, 252 HP Murkrow)
[SET]
Name: Choice
move 1: Dark Pulse
move 2: Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Overheat
move 3: Hidden Power [Fighting]
move 4: Pursuit
item: Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Timid
evs: 196 Spd/196 SpA/76 HP
ivs: 31 HP/31 Atk/30 Def/30 SpA/30 SpD/30 Spd
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>There's quite a lot of power in the Specs set, but it lacks the speed necessary to make it a full-on threat. Similarly, the Scarf set will reach 21 speed, enough to outspeed any non-Scarfer, but it loses that killing edge. However, the type coverage this spread provides is insane. Without Nasty Plot, you now have a moveslot open for Pursuit, which, even with no attack and a negative nature, will OHKO any Ghost on the switch.</p>
[DAMAGE CALCS]
vs. Murkrow: 122.73% - 145.45% (Specs Flamethrower)
vs. Gligar: 100.00% - 119.23% (Specs Fire Blast)
vs. Munchlax: 60.00% - 70.00% (Specs HP Fighting, Max SpD Munchlax)
vs. Misdreavus: 122.73% - 140.91% (Pursuit, Switching Misdreavus)
[SET]
Name: CounterRevver
move 1: Crunch
move 2: Fire Fang
move 3: Reversal
move 4: Counter
item: Focus Sash
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Jolly
evs: 236 Spd/196 Atk/76 HP
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>More of a gimmick set than anything else really, but bound to get a KO if you play it right. Bring the pooch in to revenge kill something like a Ghost. If they switch, great. If they don't, you got a KO. Anyway, hopefully they bring in a physically-oriented pokemon, like a Diglett. Wait for them to attack, and counter. You'll faint the pokemon, and have a 150 BP Reversal at your disposal.</p>
<p>However, in my honest opinion, Houndour does not have the physical movepool required to pull off a sweep. Fire Fang does not make for a good move choice, but without Flame Blitz, that's as good as it gets.</p>
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Back in OU, I saw a Power Herb/Solarbeam set used effectively, which is no different from Little Cup. The NP set would be very good at utilizing this, if base 120 Grass moves are up your alley. Roar is a great phazing moves, but with the lack of stat uppers in LC besides Munchlax, you might not find it too advantageous. WoW is a good move, and it might be worth your while to find a space for it.</p>
<p>Using an Endure/Sub Salac set could potentially work very well, boosting Houndour's speed high enough to outspeed non-Scarfers. However, doing this would mean Munchlax would walk all over you without HP Fighting, and including it would require the loss of a STAB. By themselves, Substitute is probably the best choice if you're fast enough to outspeed whatever you're facing at the time, and setting one up after another when something faster switches in.</p>
[EVs]
<p>If you don't feel confident in Houndour's pretty average defenses, feel free to run max Spd and SpA on the NP set. This leaves you with 78 EVs to be devoted to HP, giving you an extra point.</p>
[OPINION]
<p>Houndour has great typing to go along with a great ability. Without the Earthquake and Close Combat whores of OU to worry about, Dark/Fire can really shine in a metagame filled with Ghosts, and Flash Fire lets you just say no to Misdreavus and Duskull. However, that's about all the little Hell pooch has going for it. 65 base speed is respectable, but no where near good enough to make Houndour a full-fledged threat, and without the boost from Nasty Plot or Specs, it loses the ability to reliably KO. All in all, Houndour is great at what it does (counter the Ghosts), but when it comes to anything else, it's just... average.</p>
[COUNTERS]
<p>Because of the type coverage afforded by Dark and Fire, there aren't too many pokemon that can reliably switch into the NP set. Without knowing what set you're up against, Diglett won't want to risk switching into a Houndour, only to find its Earthquake countered right back. Shieldon and Aron can't take the HP Fighting, though if up against a Choice set, Dark Pulse is an excellent move to switch in on. Omanyte and Kabuto can cause massive pains for the Hell pooch in Rain, and Kabuto has Aqua Jet.</p>
<p>Houndour is basically "countered" by anything faster than it is, but anything that switches in is going to lose a lot of health.</p>
http://rapidshare.com/files/125854626/LC_Stats_Final.zip
Final revision of LC stats. Includes Defensive EV maximization.
Thank you X-Act for the overall harm formula.
Final revision of LC stats. Includes Defensive EV maximization.
Thank you X-Act for the overall harm formula.
- Status