Sorting Through the Creative Moveset Thread

Stathakis said:

Linoone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Any (It doesn't matter)
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Nature: Adamant / Jolly (Adamant would be the best one)
- Switcheroo
- Belly Drum
- Extremespeed
- Shadow Claw / Rock Smash / Dig

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I really, and I mean REALLY like the idea and thought behind that Linoone! Any chance there is a similar strategy applicable to a Pokémon in the BL/OU tiers? 'Cause I like the way that Linoone rolls.

Bologo said:

at set has been put into a peer edit already. Heh I'm glad the set I posted months and months ago doesn't totally suck in today's metagame. :P

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Bolo, you should bump it. I don't remember seeing that set. I think its a great set btw.

Also, that lioone set was my favorite out of all the set we looked over Stathakis

this thread deserves more attention, I am going to try and playtest that metagross set.

matty said:

Bolo, you should bump it. I don't remember seeing that set. I think its a great set btw.

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=775383&postcount=696

It was posted all the way back in December, however, it didn't get much attention at all until now. Heh. :D

Drifblim - Calm mind Rest


Drifblim @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 240 HP/136 Spe/132 SAtk
Nature: Timid
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power: Fighting / Baton pass
- Rest

This set is a fairly bulky sweeper and can actually run through unprepared teams. The idea is to come in on stuff like choice band earthquakes and calm mind. From there you pretty much calm mind up as much as you can until you start running low on hp, then you rest, activating the chesto berry and unburden, effectively doubling your speed and putting you back at full hp. From here, you can sweep with 506 speed, outspeeding deoxys, and you are walled pretty much only by steelix. For use in UU, a similar spread with 52 speed and a modest nature, with the rest dumped into defense can work, hitting 418 speed after the unburden boost. In UU, things like steelix and cacturne are rather common, and with thunderbolt you have difficulty getting through them. Though without thunderbolt, stuff like mantine will give you more difficulty. With rest, this thing can get lots of calm minds in, which means that if you do come across something that walls you, you could just as easily pass your many boosts to a more potent sweeper.

Stathakis, I have done intensive testing with that Drifblim set, and I can safely say that it is very effective. I used it with CM / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting / Rest in UU and it swept through entire teams in the late game. On average, it took out 2 of the opponent's pokes, so that just goes to show how effective it can be.
Just thought I'd let you know it's been playtested. <

Stathakis said:

Ahhh, finally I have time for progress. UU isn't really my metagame, and this set isn't too different from the analysis, but it seems like it plays differently from the sweeper set in the analysis (which, unfortunately, I have yet to test). Surprisingly, this works okay in OU as well.

Drifblim (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 240 HP/136 Spe/132 SAtk
Timid nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power: Fighting / Baton pass
- Rest

This set is a fairly bulky sweeper and can actually run through unprepared teams. The idea is to come in on stuff like choice band earthquakes and calm mind. From there you pretty much calm mind up as much as you can until you start running low on hp, then you rest, activating the chesto berry and unburden, effectively doubling your speed and putting you back at full hp. From here, you can sweep with 506 speed, outspeeding deoxys, and you are walled pretty much only by steelix. For use in UU, a similar spread with 52 speed and a modest nature, with the rest dumped into defense can work, hitting 418 speed after the aftermath boost. In UU, things like steelix and cacturne are rather common, and without thunderbolt you have difficulty getting through them. Though without thunderbolt, stuff like mantine will give you more difficulty. With rest, this thing can get lots of calm minds in, which means that if you do come across something that walls you, you could just as easily pass your many boosts to a more potent sweeper.

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Think you mean Unburden.

can somebody check out my moveset?
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44153

Stathakis said:

Timid nature (+SAtk, -Atk) I think you mean modest =P

In UU, things like steelix and cacturne are rather common, and without thunderbolt you have difficulty getting through them. This sentence doesn't make sense.

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I think I posted something similiar to this. I'm actually surprised that this set works =P

The quote that Dexterity provided, Stathakis obviously means HP Fighting and NOT Thunderbolt as a way to take down Steelix and Cacturne.

EDIT: Sorry your comment was in the quote box, so I didn't see it x_x

Well that's what I sort of implied...

Stathakis said:

Drifblim (M) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 240 HP/136 Spe/132 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt / Hidden Power: Fighting / Baton pass
- Rest

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Having done some playtesting of my own with this set in UU, I can attest to its effectiveness. I have found that Hidden Power Fighting is the way to go since Steelix really is so common, as previously mentioned. The appeal of this set, for me at least, is that you can "recklessly" switch in on Toxic and Will-O-Wisp late in the game, and proceed to set up knowing that you can not only completely heal yourself once, but double your Speed while doing so. Good stuff!

Since my thread was erased or something like that I will post it here... ( I hope you dont get mad at me)

Lucario

move 1: CLose Combat
Main Sab move for a hit and run set.
move 2: Crunch
with a great speed W/c scarf it can outrun Gengar and Starmie
move 3: Hidden Power Ice
Covers the classic dragon counter of Lucario: Garchomp, Dragonite, Flygon, Salamence and also Gliscor ( even if it is not a dragon)
move 4: Blaze Kick / Stone Edge
Blaze Kick hurts some steel types with supereffective hits instead of nuetral..., and also outruns and hits hard to Lucario.
Stone edge is for hitting Gyarados, that will be probably countering Lucario

item: Choice Scarf
ability: Inner Focus
nature(s): Lonely/ Naughty

evs: 0 hp / 252 atk / 0 def / 40 spatk / spdef / 218 spd
Max attack ( 350 )
270 speed + choice scarf = 405 speed
40 in sp attk (more or less 275) to boost hidden power capabilities

As you may know Lucario has a potential of a late game sweeper, with an unpredictable roll, until the first move is done, but when your opponent discovers the set you are running it is more easily countered, so thats why this is a mix set for a surprise. It just need some prediction and it is more like a revenge killer/mid-game sweeper set.

Primeape - Mixape, 1st Gen Edition

Salamence - Subroost


Salamence (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 20 HP/88 Atk/176 Spd/224 SAtk
Nature: Mild
- Dragon Pulse
- Roost
- Substitute
- Brick Break

This salamence functions on teams with toxic spikes, stalling the enemy with substitute and roost while they take damage from poison. The combination of dragon pulse and brick break hits everything for neutral damage, and dragon pulse / substitute does a good job of coaxing out blissey to get hit by a powerful brick break and be forced to constantly softboil and get worn down by poison damage. The steel types who are immune to poison and take neutral damage from brick break are jirachi, metagross, and bronzong. Bronzong gets easily pp stalled, as gyro ball has only 8 pp, jirachi cannot do too much to salamence as long as he is behind a substitute and jirachi doesn't carry ice punch. The best switchin is metagross, as his immunity to poison, high defense, and dragon pulse resistance mean that salaemcne isn't doing too much to metagross, but with a modest nature and falmethrower over brick break, you trade the ability to hit heatran and blissey hard for a higher base defense and the ability to hit all the other physically oriented steel types on their lower defensive side. The ev's generate a leftovers number in hp while hitting 280 speed, outspeeding all max speed neutral natured base 90 speed pokemon. Mild is the preferred nature over rash, because it is beneficial to roost on weak ice beams as well as taking unstabed special attacks.

When I made that Primeape set, Gliscor was much rarer, so it might be worth listing HP Ice or Ice Punch as an option in that 4th slot. It should be noted that the main reason to use it over Infernape is as a "lure" to cripple physical walls.

Porygon-Z - SubSalac


Porygon-Z @ Salac Berry
Ability: Adaptability
Evs: 252 Satk 252 Spd 4 Def
Ivs: 30 hp
Nature: Timid
-Tri Attack
-Thunderbolt / Ice beam / Dark pulse
-Nasty Plot
-Substitute

A set that is powerful enough to dent walls but fast enough to sweep. That was always something porygon-z missed, being torn between nasty plot and agility. Well, this Porygon-Z remedies that problem by the use of substitute and a salac berry. The premise is this: with porygon-z's ability to force switches, snuggling behind a substitute guarantees that you will be able to reach at least +2 special attack and +1 speed. If the opponent is faster than you, simply sub down as they attack until the salac berry activates, and you're behind a sub. Now you should be faster than them and able to nasty plot as they break your substitute. If the enemy is slower, you simply nasty plot as they break your sub and then sub down. If the opponent is relying on status to cripple porygon-z or cannot break its substitutes, you can often end up with +6 special attack, +1 speed, and even a substitute. The main problem with this set is that you cannot have a 160 base power tri attack without getting walled by something. Thunderbolt leaves you walled by steelix, though nasty plotted tri attacks will wear him down somewhat. Ice beam and dark pulse leave you walled by the other steel types that are more common in OU, so thunderbolt is usually preferred. Timid is the preferred nature, to be able to outspeed more things after the salac boost, like adamant scarfchomp, electivire with the motor boost (should he switch in on thunderbolt) and all of the neutral natured max speed scarfed base 90's.

Stathakis said:

Porygon-Z @ Salac Berry
Ability: Adaptability
Evs: 252 Satk 252 Spd 4 Def
Ivs: 30 hp
Nature: Timid
-Tri Attack
-Thunderbolt / Ice beam / Dark pulse
-Nasty Plot
-Substitute

A set that is powerful enough to dent walls but fast enough to sweep. That was always something porygon-z missed, being torn between nasty plot and agility. Well, this Porygon-Z remedies that problem by the use of substitute and a salac berry. The premise is this: with porygon-z's ability to force switches, snuggling behind a substitute guarantees that you will be able to reach at least +2 special attack and +1 speed. If the opponent is faster than you, simply sub down as they attack until the salac berry activates, and you're behind a sub. Now you should be faster than them and able to nasty plot as they break your substitute. If the enemy is slower, you simply nasty plot as they break your sub and then sub down. If the opponent is relying on status to cripple porygon-z or cannot break its substitutes, you can often end up with +6 special attack, +1 speed, and even a substitute. The main problem with this set is that you cannot have a 160 base power tri attack without getting walled by something. Thunderbolt leaves you walled by steelix, though nasty plotted tri attacks will wear him down somewhat. Ice beam and dark pulse leave you walled by the other steel types that are more common in OU, so thunderbolt is usually preferred. Timid is the preferred nature, to be able to outspeed more things after the salac boost, like adamant scarfchomp, electivire with the motor boost (should he switch in on thunderbolt) and all of the neutral natured max speed scarfed base 90's.

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I have another suggestion for this set. You went with NP + Salac, but I think an Agility + Petrya set would function much better. Becomes similiar to the Empoleon Petraya set and would be better (in my mind) than this one. Due to the fact that after an Agility you would be much faster, it gives you more freedom to either attack, or then sub down to the Petrya. Just a quick thought.

what sets empoleon apart from porygon-z is that he has access to double stab surfs (torrent) which means that he doesn't need the extra power. from when I tested it, I found subsalac to be much more useful than subpetaya. but, if your playtesting proves otherwise, then by all means make a post in the creative moveset thread. or a peer edit. the way I see it, agili download gives you an extra moveslot while accomplishing the same thing, but if you can argue for agilipetaya, then you may as well make a peer edit for it and "take the credit yourself," so to speak. if that doesn't suit you, I'm all ears as to why agilipetaya is better. it's just that "in my mind" doesn't superced actual playtesting as an argument.

I didn't mean for it to sound like the Petrya idea was any better than the Empoleon one. Just wanted to point out the similarities. My only caution about this set is that it would be easy set up on say a blissey, but if something else that is faster than you is out, then you could get into trouble. So basically what I'm trying to say is that I would think that the Agility set would have an easier set up, but the NP would be more dangerous if that makes sense. Both would work (should play test em), but I'm taking a more conservative route.

well the problem is that agility + download is better than agilipetaya, simply because that extra moveslot helps you to hit everything for supereffective damage and really make use of that +1 attack, as it's not going to be doing much with 2 moveslots. also, the nasty plot set is simple to set up. and if when you say easier, you mean you just take a hit and agility, substitute is pointless. what I'm trying to say here is that agility+substitute = not very viable. agility + download is almost always a better alternative.

Yanmega - Reversal


Yanmega @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
Evs: 252 attack, 252 speed
Nature: Adamant
- Substitute
- Reversal
- Aerial Ace / U-turn
- Hypnosis

This is a very interesting set, used to lure blissey and heatran, yanmega's common counters, and kill them both. The idea is to set up a substitute, which may lure the opponent into thinking that you've got an ordinary subbing yanmega. If you use hypnosis, that's going to coax the heatrans out right away, as nobody expects hp ground after both substitue and hypnosis are used. Well, 76 isn't the highest base attack, but +1 reversal easily OHKO's blissey and heatran at 1 hp, and does a number to pretty much everything else. The last slot is interesting. If you're looking for a more surprise sweeper oriented set, then aerial ace is the way to go. But if yanmega's role in your team is to lure in and kill blissey and snorlax to pave the way for another fearsome sweeper, say nasty plotting azelf or subcm raikou, then u-turn may be a better option, allowing you to get outta there once you've served your purpose and you meet a counter, so that way you can bring him back in later as death fodder to get in a more threatening sweeper. 31 hp allows you to sub down 5 times, leaving you at 1 hp, or you can get down to 1 hp by switching into sr twice.

Stathakis said:

Porygon-Z @ Salac Berry
Ability: Adaptability
Evs: 252 Satk 252 Spd 4 Def
Ivs: 30 hp
Nature: Timid
-Tri Attack
-Thunderbolt / Ice beam / Dark pulse
-Nasty Plot
-Substitute

A set that is powerful enough to dent walls but fast enough to sweep. That was always something porygon-z missed, being torn between nasty plot and agility. Well, this Porygon-Z remedies that problem by the use of substitute and a salac berry. The premise is this: with porygon-z's ability to force switches, snuggling behind a substitute guarantees that you will be able to reach at least +2 special attack and +1 speed. If the opponent is faster than you, simply sub down as they attack until the salac berry activates, and you're behind a sub. Now you should be faster than them and able to nasty plot as they break your substitute. If the enemy is slower, you simply nasty plot as they break your sub and then sub down. If the opponent is relying on status to cripple porygon-z or cannot break its substitutes, you can often end up with +6 special attack, +1 speed, and even a substitute. The main problem with this set is that you cannot have a 160 base power tri attack without getting walled by something. Thunderbolt leaves you walled by steelix, though nasty plotted tri attacks will wear him down somewhat. Ice beam and dark pulse leave you walled by the other steel types that are more common in OU, so thunderbolt is usually preferred. Timid is the preferred nature, to be able to outspeed more things after the salac boost, like adamant scarfchomp, electivire with the motor boost (should he switch in on thunderbolt) and all of the neutral natured max speed scarfed base 90's.

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Hooray, my set made it on. Originally it was Modest, but after doing a damage calculation, +4 Tri Attack 2HKOs Blissey with Timid anyways. Thanks stathakis.

Glaceon - Resttalk


Glaceon @ Leftovers
Ability : Snowcloak
Evs: 196 HP/ 102 Defense/ 16 Sp Atk/ 176 Sp Def/ 20 Speed
Nature: Modest
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power {Fighting}/Shadow Ball/ Hidden Power {Ground}

With it's respectable defenses and the ability to hit hard without pumping too much offense, Glaceon can make a good Status/Sleep absorber in UU play. EVs give max a number for maximum leftovers recovery, and let Glaceon outspeed neutral natured Hypno. It also can take 2, Life Orbed X-Scissor's from Scyther with those defense evs, and it gets 3HKOed by a one Calm Minded Grumpig's psychic. The remaining 16 evs are casually dumped in special attack.
Using Ice Beam and Hidden Power Ground you can hit everything neutral except for Shedinja and Bronzong, neither of which you would have to worry about in UU play. Shadow ball should also be considered for hitting Hypno and Grumpig for Super Effective damage, namely grumpig, who resists ice beam.

Macgargo - Support


Magcargo @Leftovers
Ablility: Flame Body
EVs: 252 hp/172 def/84 spdef
Bold Nature (+def, -atk)
- Lava Plume
- Light Screen
- Recover
- Yawn

Ok, so like the analysis says, Magcargo may be easy to insult, but it has an awful lot of good support moves. This guy's pretty easy to actually bring in, but once he gets in there, what to do? Well, with 304 HP and 350 defense, it can take quite a beating on the physical side, taking even resisted Explosions with over 50%, and even Choice Banded hits, because although it may not look like it, with the 4x ground/water weak, its typing does give an awful lot of nice resistances to common types such as Ice, Bug, Normal, Flying and Fire (.25x). This means that it can Recover off the damage from most physical attacks perfectly fine, plus physical attackers can just be stalled out until they're burned from Flame Body with a 30% chance of getting burned from using a physical attack, or Magcargo can help that with Lava Plume and push that chance up to 50% by using both in one turn. Steer clear of Earthquake/Waterfall/Close Combat if you want to ensure Magcargo's survival. The remaining 84 EVs are shoved into special defense. 217 special defense allows it to take a lot of hits under 50% on the special side as well, and then just recover off the damage if you can predict them attacking you. Can switch into Overheats very well and Yawn the switch-in, or just Light Screen while they're bringing in something else. Also, remember, Magcargo is a Rock type, this means that 217 special defense gets moved up to 325 in a sandstorm, allowing it to take almost equal beatings. Steer clear of Surf/Waterfall/Focus Blast of course. Magcargo tends to force quite a bit of switches with this set. There are a few things you can do to a switch-in. You can force another switch with Yawn, or if they stay in to sleep after the Yawn, bring in something for a free turn to get set-up. If you think something of a set-up sweeper will come in, then this is the move of choice. Very nice for revealing your opponent's team. You can also Lava Plume and hope for a burn, or if you predict Forretress/Scizor for god knows what reason, they'll be OHKOed. Also a nice surprise for Breloom switch-ins who want to do their Sporepunching business. This will neuter those annoying Garchomp that like switching in to Earthquake you if they get burned. Of course it's best to predict physical sweepers with this. Another option is Light Screen while they're switching over and switch to a pokemon and let another teammate take the show. Magcargo supported the team by boosting the special defense already, so it's at least done something, and it didn't take damage doing that, so it can come out for another go later on. Best used if you predict a special threat coming in, or if you predict a sleep-talker and don't want to use Yawn. Or you can use the free turn to Recover your health that you may have lost from something such as a Stealth Rock switch-in (25% from stealth rock), or from a wrong prediction and needing to recover off a big hit. Predicting statusers is a good idea for using this, since you can just Recover while they come in and then switch out to something that can take the status.

Magcargo also fares quite well one on one without the free turns. He can force his own switches with yawn. If they switch out, it will rack up residual damage, which Magcargo is good at doing, and it will allow you to switch in something new. The key is predicting stat-uppers, or even a Thunder Wave, which Magcargo doesn't care about since its already slow as heck. Many people see Magcargo as disgustingly weak and they believe they can set-up on it. They are wrong. Light Screen is useful if your opponent once again has not learned their lesson and tries to stat-up. Especially useful if you can grab a burn on them later on because they will potentially be screwed. If you have an Encorer, you can then Encore their stat-up and begin wrecking havoc. Plus, Magcargo can support well, so Light Screen may be the missing link between a OHKO and a 2HKO on one of your pokemon. Firing off lava plumes on physical attackers isn't so bad an option either. Magcargo's only attacking move is the thing that screws many of his counters over. Like I said, many...many people appear to forget that Magcargo has Flame Body, and then they're in for a rude awakening when I switch in my Magcargo on their physical attack and they get burned. Now, you have to predict whether they will want to keep their physical pokemon in, and you can then Lava Plume and take attacks, recovering when necessary for a 50% chance of burning when you do that. Kind of a psuedo Will-O-Wisp since it can't have 5 moves. Ultimate mind games with this move coupled with Flame Body, since it keeps the opponent guessing for their pokemon's life, since after a physical pokemon, or even a staller is burned, they're not such a huge threat anymore unless they've gotten a Belly Drum off or something and their name starts with an 'H' and ends with an 'Eracross'.