CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 2

Which concept should we use for CAP8?

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I say neglected ability because if CAP is for discovering about the unexplored part of the metagame it seems the best choice for doing so. This is a very good set of concepts for this but it just seems like this would be the most viable choice.
 
Voted Elevator Music's Neglected Ability because of the potential I see for it. Imagine Anger Point on a high-attack poke or maybe Mold Breaker (Rampardos is very frail and Pinsir...) on a ground-type. Think about the possibilities!
 
Deck Knight said:
Unless you want a decent Hail sweeper immune to Rocks. And again, Pre-alteration Syclant had pumped offenses and the absurd 121 Speed. He was a nightmare in the beginning which is why he was toned down.

In the beginning Platinum wasn't out. Scizor had not Bullet Punch. The metagame was completely different. So it is pointless to compare.

So we're making a Snowdra that doesn't actually need snow?
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Another huge strawman. I'm starting to get sick of them. Try to apply what you are saying about Snowdra to Kingdra. Does Kingdra not actually need rain? Obviously it enjoys it a lot, but it can very well function without rain. Same thing would go with Snowdra. Hail would not be a must, but a huge benefit to his sweeping ability.

No team needs any one pokemon, though Hail obviously benefits from Abomasnow. People have already run successful Hail teams without the need for this CAP. We'd be filling a niche that needs no use, or we'll be inventing our 3rd Fighting or 2nd Steel type CAP on the basis Tyranitar craps all over hail.
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People have already run offensive teams without a Pivot Point. People have already run paralysis-based team without a Para-busing tank. People have already abused with good success underused Pokémon with interesting abilities. People have already utilised multi-attack Pokémon to break things like Subs. With this logic, every CAP could be deemed useless.

Otherwise we're just creating a CAP that doesn't particularly mind facing Hail teams, likely leading to a decrease in their use.
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So you would say that the very existance of Kingdra hinders in the same way Rain teams? This is ridiculous.

Again, if you just hate this idea, say it. But do not try to find non-existant fallacies, because this is insulting to people who actually support the idea. If I have a specific issue against an idea (like EM's lack of direction) that's a point, but do not start bitching for the sake of bitching (Even if I do not like your idea for example, DK, I have never criticized it for the sake of criticism. I'd like the same respect from your side)
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Deck Knight said:
So we're making a Snowdra that doesn't actually need snow?
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Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of Kingda of the snow is to make a great hail sweeper, but one that is a good choice on normal teams, much like Kingdra is in Standard, running a DD set.

I think that the main issue with everyone against Snowdra is that we would be forced to make something that needs hail, and thus will promote it more. That's completely false. Kingra didn't make OU a rain-filled tier, and this pokemon won't make CAP OU hail-filled.

Another point that people are bringing up is Scylant already using hail. How many times have you seen a hail team in CAP? I've run into about zero of them. The idea of an Abomasnow/Walrein/Frosslass/CAP 8/Scylant/Heatran, or something of the sort, is great. The only thing that is added to that team would be CAP 8, which is exactly what we want.

Yet another pressing issue is retrictions on creativity. No poll jumping is needed to know that we could give it something like Snow Cloak or Ice Body renamed to fit CAP 8, or even make a new ability. We've done it before, so why not again?

The Unexplored Ability idea is okay, but really it's not going to help us much. Okay, sure, we get a good pokemon with Dust Shield. If we get Dust Shield at all. I'm just using it as an example, there are many other good abilities out there to try. My point is that with all these people voting while not knowing the purpose of CAP, we probably wont get a very solidly designed CAP, which is really what this project is turning into. If you want a good, solid pokemon and less blindlessly picking options, vote for Snowdra.
 
Blazebat said:
I say neglected ability because if CAP is for discovering about the unexplored part of the metagame it seems the best choice for doing so.
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Hahahahahahahahahaha.

Let's look very carefully here:

A few abilities that don't reprehsent in da OU metagame nowdays:

-Unaware. Bibarel. Case in point.
-Shed Skin. I guess if you want to follow the Kakuna analysis...
-Air Lock/Cloud Nine. Rayquaza CAN'T be used in OU, and Golduck fails.
-Vital Spirit. I see none of it here.
-Frisk. Banette or Stantler. Pick your poison.
-Limber, in fact. Nothing in OU uses it.
-COMPOUNDEYES. Gogo Butterfree.
-Battle Armor. I love Armaldo - there's just a limit to that love.

Now, let's consider for a moment, that SIX out of SEVEN CAPs have one of these NEGLECTED abilities and that quite a few of them are integral to their respective Pokemon in some way.

Revenankh's most famous set: Rest/Bulk Up/Hammer Arm/Shadow Sneak. This set was made on the fact that Shed Skin has a great chance of waking you up ahead of schedule and letting Rev get the smack down on you. It wouldn't be nearly as effective in a lot of scenarios if Rev had to wait the full two turns every time.

Unaware practically made Arghonaut THE counter. It's why Rev doesn't show much of its ugly face nowadays, why Argho is especially cool using Bulk Up, etc.

Compoundeyes is/was pretty deadly packed on Syclant. Not needing Hail to back your most powerful STAB and a few other moves was fearsome. Admittedly, we kind of nerfed that out of 'Clant, but that doesn't mean we never made something with neglected ability Compoundeyes.

And if you want to look at Kitsunoh and Fidgit, I use Vital Spirit on Fidgit a whole load of the time. It's my first switch-in to Breloom. Sleep leads cannot stop this. That's very important sometimes. Kitsunoh on the other hand can use Frisk to learn about your opponent's set very early (in fact it was pretty irritating having opposing Kitsunoh leads Frisk my Azelf's Light Clay and immediately know what team I was packing). Limber on the other hand, gives it several excellent switch-in oppurtunities and keeps it fit and fighting - unlike dead weight that para'd Kitsunoh can become.

So why are we treating Neglected Ability as new? This has been going on since day 1. We've learned about how a Pokemon can make great use of its ability - we've got plenty of examples of it. Why can't we choose a concept that hasn't been done for six out of seven CAPs? Neglected Ability is undiscovered territory? Please. :/
 
I voted for Elevator Music's Neglected Ability. Seems like we could go in a lot of different directions with that and it could turn out nicely.
 
I voted Infinite Attack this time, since Neglected Ability has been done many times in CAP. Besides, I have a hatred of Substitute and Focus Sash. This could help with suicide leads, and would torture Breloom, which is always a positive in my thought!

If Kingdra of the Snow makes it further than Infinite Attack, I may vote for it.
 
The unfortunate effect of choosing the option "Neglected Ability" is that we would have picked the typing and base stat spread before the ability.

This would have the effect of forcing us to find a unique ability to suit the initial choices made for the CAP, as opposed to building from the start around the ability.

This could be in turn worked around if we decided that, should Neglected Ability win, we would change the order within the process to make ability to focus of the pokemon.
 
Darkflagrance said:
The unfortunate effect of choosing the option "Neglected Ability" is that we would have picked the typing and base stat spread before the ability.

This would have the effect of forcing us to find a unique ability to suit the initial choices made for the CAP, as opposed to building from the start around the ability.

This could be in turn worked around if we decided that, should Neglected Ability win, we would change the order within the process to make ability to focus of the pokemon.
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We can't change the order of the events, Doug said it already I think... it is something all EM voters will have to cope with
 
Darkflagrance said:
The unfortunate effect of choosing the option "Neglected Ability" is that we would have picked the typing and base stat spread before the ability.

This would have the effect of forcing us to find a unique ability to suit the initial choices made for the CAP, as opposed to building from the start around the ability.

This could be in turn worked around if we decided that, should Neglected Ability win, we would change the order within the process to make ability to focus of the pokemon.
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That must be discussed in the Concept Assessment, I think.

IMO, we can mix different concept. "Neglected Ability" doens't disqualify another concept like "Para-busing Tank", or "Pivot Point".
 
Aaaand this one's done!
The top two will be moving on, namely zarator's Kingdra in the Snow and Elevator Music's Neglected Ability.
The third and final Concept Poll will be up right away!
 
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