UU Suspect Nominations (Round 3)

Shouldn't we wait for HG/SS before setting BL? I don't play Shoddy yet, but Aqua Jet Feraligatr, DD Crawdaunt, and Agility Kingler could put a huge dent in the metagame. (I'll start playing once I have time/we manage to get the old XP computer set back up again)

BTW, HG/SS has a LOT of changes.

Yanmega, for the reasons everyone's listed, and the fact it even has so much ire as to be #1 "Nomination Magnet." What's more, note that 2 of Yanmega's 3 reliable counters, according to others- Registeel and Milotic- have both been heavily nominated defensively. If even 1 leaves, Yanmega could only continue with less resistance to sweep the metagame dry. (And despite JetGatr in HG/SS, there are 2 bugs that will probably never come down from their high perches even if Ambipom could learn Explosion: Scizor in OU, and Yanmega in UU, who will, like its more anthropomorphic cousin Garchomp, most likely get banhammered from its current tier to ascend into BLdom.)

Dragonflies were considered evil in Europe. Yanmega is a major evil to UU.

I nominate Mismagius under the Offensive and Support Characteristics. I have used Mismagius to great success in OU on both Stall and Balance teams with different roles on my two main accounts: Gym Leader Jake, my Balance Team account, and HolmesX-C 16, my Stall account. I will tackle each characteristic individually and in detail with calcs.

Offensive Characteristic

Click to expand...

A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Click to expand...

The first set I will demonstrate is the Calm Mind Mismagius set, the set that I used to great success on my OU Balance Team.

Mismagius @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
EVs: 108 HP/180 SAtk/220 Spd
~Substitute
~Calm Mind
~Shadow Ball
~Hidden Power [Fighting]/Thunderbolt

This spread is amazing in OU. A Blissey with 108 SAtk will never break its sub on a first hit with Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt, and due to Ghost typing, Seismic Toss Blissey has no chance. Mismagius can get behind a Sub immediately to avoid any harmful status, and then Calm Mind. Blissey is useless against Mismagius, and a +6 Mismagius Hidden Power Fighting is a possible 2HKO. Shadow Ball & Hidden Power Fighting provide perfect coverage, and allow Mismagius to take out the premier Special Walls in OU; Blissey and Cresselia, while they can do nothing to her. Thunderbolt is an option, but it is more effective in UU than OU, but calcs will be done for it as well.

To demonstrate her effectiveness, here are some calcs.

+6 Mismagius vs 385 SDef & 651 HP (Standard WishBliss) (HIDDEN POWER [FIGHTING]: 304 - 358 (46.70% - 54.99%) 2HKO - 100% Stealth Rock. 100% Sandstorm. 99.41% SR/Leftovers.


+6 Mismagius vs 396 SDef & 651 HP (Cleric Blissey) (HIDDEN POWER [FIGHTING]: 294 - 348 (45.16% - 53.46%) 2HKO - 100% Stealth Rock. 100% Sandstorm. 90.53% SR/Leftovers.

+6 vs. Blissey may seem to undermine Mismagius' effectiveness. Mismagius only needs 1-2 boosts to start a sweep against non-Special Walls, but we have to remember this is Blissey. A guarenteed 2HKO on WishBliss is something Suicune can't boast about even after +6 with Surf.

The above Blissey sets are the most defensive you are likely to encounter, and the WishPass is epecially common. Because of this ability of Mismagius she has been on my teams, my Blissey counter, as many Blissey's don't switch out until the second boost when they realize it is hopeless.

+3 Mismagius vs 341 SDef & 441 HP (STalk Cresselia) (STAB SHADOW BALL): 368 - 434 (83.45% - 98.41%)

OHKO - 28.41% Sandstorm/74.36% SR/74.36% SR & Leftovers
2HKO - 100% on all counts.

+3 Mismagius vs 394 SDef & 441 HP (Unusually Bulky Cresselia) (STAB SHADOW BALL): 318 - 374 (72.11% - 84.81%)

2HKO - 100% on all counts.

Cresselia is another premier OU Special Wall, and while the bulkiest listed set in the analysis is the Sleep Talk Cresselia, I included a maximum bulk Cresselia to illustrate Mismagius' effectiveness. Mismagius comes out on top of Cresselia in almost every case. She is not a great switch into CM Cresselia if it has already setup do to the lack of bulk on this EV spread. However, on any other Cresselia, she can switch in with impunity and set up. Dual Screen presents an interesting problem with Light Screen, but Dual Screen Cresselia has no means of offense against Mismagius besides Paralysis, which Substitute takes care of. Notice that Mismagius only needs 3 Calm Minds to achieve the 2HKOs and potential OHKOs on Cresselia vs. 6 on Blissey.

Various Bulky

+4 Mismagius vs 342 Def & 503 HP (Curselax) (HIDDEN POWER [FIGHTING]): 258 - 304 (51.29% - 60.44%)

2HKO- Guarenteed with Hazards in play.

Snorlax with Crunch is often an answer to Mismagius, however, many times he will come into a 3-4 Calm Minded Mismagius, and will be promptly 2HKOd.

Unboosted Mismagius vs 328 SDef (Max) & 394 HP (Max) (Never Seen Bulky Gyrados) (THUNDERBOLT): 244 - 288 (61.93% - 73.10%)

2HKO - 100% on all accounts.

It is worth noting that a +1 Thunderbolt has the following chances to OHKO.

Regular Conditions: 53.85% Leftovers: 53.85% Sandstorm: 87.18% Stealth Rock: 100% Stealth Rock/Lefties: 100%.

Also note that these calcs were done on a Gyrados with ridiculous Special Bulk, and a Gyarados with this much bulk is almost never seen.

Thunderbolt is pretty much only good for Gyrados. A Gyarados with this much bulk need 3 CMs to have an assured 2HKO with Stealth Rock in play with STAB Shadow Ball. Despite this, the coverage allowed by Hidden Power Fighting is much more important. Also, using Thunderbolt destroys Mismagius' ability to counter Blissey.
=========
Offensive Overview
=========
These Calcs were done on some of OUs bulkier pokemon, and pokemon who were given EV spreads that are rarely seen in game. Mismagius was able to land a 2HKO on all of them and a OHKO on the half of them if given a fair amount of boostage. Mismagius' abilities offensively depend on its ability to setup, and it has all the tools it needs to setup on some of the tier's foremost Special Attackers and walls, and when the time comes; she can beat them. Her 105 base speed is quite rare, particularly in OU. With Timid and 220 speed, she outpaces all non-choice scarf Base 100s by 3 points, and gets additional bulk added to her HP. Due to the amount of base 100s in OU, she has just the right amount of Speed to be extremely successful.

Offensive Mismagius acts as a great counter to things that don't have many counters such as:

Blissey: Can use as setup fodder and can 2HKO after 6 boosts.

Celebi: Because she outspeeds Celebi, she can sub, Calm Mind, avoid status, and get to the point where she takes out Celebi in one hit.

Cresselia: Can use as setup fodder and can land a potential OHKO after 3 boosts.

Specially Based Empoleon: Can use as setup fodder and take out with HP Fighting.

Gengar: If Mismagius is first on the field and has gotten off a CM, Shadow Ball will do reduced damage to her and she will OHKO. Don't switch into.

Heatran: With Levitate, she takes away Earth Power, leaving special fire attacks as the best option for most Heatran. They are dealt with by a +1 Hidden Power Fighting.

Lucario: Any Lucario lacking Crunch is essentially setup for Mismagius. Ice Punch from Adamant Lucario has only a 22.29% chance to 2HKO her if Stealth Rock is up and she is holding leftovers. If SR is not up, there is no way besides hax for him to 2HKO, meaning you can CM twice and OHKO with Hidden Power Fighting. (1 CM = 58% Chance to OHKO against standard Swords Dance, 2CM = 100%) Or you have the option of 2HKOing without any boosts, but with Lucario you have the opportunity to boost, so why not.

Mixed Infernape: Close Combat can't hit her, and she boosts her SDef.

Snorlax: If they switch into her after a boost, they have very little chance of surviving and getting the necessary boosts off. If they win the war they are promptly revenge killed.

There are so many more, but these are threats that so many pokemon have trouble with, and this is why she can work on a Balance team, by taking out these troublesome forces and clearing the way for other sweepers.

I will come back later and add in her Support role on a Stall team. For now this is my piece.

Maci, this thread is for nominating suspects to be moved from UU to BL. You are trying to prove how they are broken in UU, not how well they fare in OU. As such, your experiences of having used Mismagius in OU have next to no relevance for the purposes of this thread. You say nothing about your experiences with Mismagius in UU, which should really be the entire focus of your post.

Sorry, I've been pretty busy...last minute nomination.


Offensive CharacteristicA Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort


I nominate Yanmega. I'm nominating for these exact reasons. With players of the UU metagame realizing the potential and power of specs/tinted lens yanmega, every team who wishes to be successful must carry something to stop its rampage (registeel or chansey). Without a solid counter to this threat, it can tear apart an entire team. Even these "counters" take a large chunk of HP from a hit from this beast. The standard registeel takes anywhere from 35-40% from a modest natured bug buzz. Chansey takes a lighter hit, but once she is removed, your team can be in for a world of hurt. The speed boost/life orb set, though a lesser threat, can be deadly as well. With the ability to switch attacks, it can severely dent, If not finish a team off.

Yanmega is nowhere near perfect as every UU player knows. It has a severe 4x weakness to stealth rock and a fairly limited movepool. Choice specs version lack the ability to change moves, forcing to have to switch out. It's limited to basically three switch-ins a game unless it has spin support. The life orb variants have the "four move" syndrome. It simply cannot cover enough types within its four moveslots. Its two STAB attacks are, for the most part, staples in any of its sets (Air slash and Bug buzz), leaving it with only 2 slots to work with. Protect guarantees a free turn for speed boost, while furthering it from achieving "good type coverage". The last slot can be filled with a number of moves, such as shadowball for ghosts, hidden power: ground for steels, rocks, and fire types, and the rare reversal to potentially beat its counters. Using the first move allows it to be effectively walled by steel types, while using any of the latter two allow the ghost types like rotom counter the LO set. While no one attack can take it down, its health can be whittled down by repeated attacks.

CB Azumarill Aqua Jet: 654 Atk vs 208 Def & 313 HP (40 Base Power): 135 - 160 (43.13% - 51.12%)

Donphan Ice Shard: 372 Atk vs 208 Def & 313 HP (40 Base Power): 104 - 124 (33.23% - 39.62%)


Guts Swellow Quick Attack: 403 Atk vs 208 Def & 313 HP (40 Base Power): 84 - 100 (26.84% - 31.95%)


LO TechTop Fake Out: 317 Atk vs 208 Def & 313 HP (60 Base Power): 85 - 101 (27.16% - 32.27%)

Just some examples…

However, priority is limited on almost every UU team. Even if it doesn’t sweep an entire team, it is very likely that the team it has hit has been severely weakened. It does massive damage to even the bulkiest members of UU commonly seen on a stall team with the SpecsTL set. IIRC, every common member is at least 3HKOed. That is even the resisters of its attacks. If that doesn’t make it a massive offensive threat I don’t know what does.

Roserade

Offensive Characteristic
A Pokémon is BL if, in common battle conditions, it is capable of sweeping through a significant portion of teams in the metagame with little effort.

Click to expand...

With a simple set of Sleep Powder / Synthesis / Leaf Storm / Sludge Bomb @ Life Orb, Roserade sweeps through a gigantic portion of the metagame. While Grass / Poison has mediocre super effective coverage, the combination has very efficient neutral coverage. This, coupled with a base 125 Special Attack ensures that Roserade can, at the very least, 2HKO almost every Pokemon in UU, the few exceptions being Chansey, Registeel, Drapion, and various NU Pokemon like Muk or Wormadam-S. While prediction is necessary for it to do so, Roserade's task is simplified in that it does only have to choose from two moves. It even has Sleep Powder, which is not only useful for insurance or to take out a counter, but to prevent Chansey from being a surefire counter until Sleep Clause is activated.

A few calculations that demonstrate its power:

Leaf Storm vs min / min Yanmega: 40.26% - 47.28%
Sludge Bomb vs max / max Altaria: 40.68% - 47.74% (2HKO with Stealth Rock)
Sludge Bomb vs max / max Clefable: 39.85% - 47.21%
Leaf Storm vs max / max Clefable: 62.44% - 73.35% (Guaranteed 2HKO with Toxic Orb, extremely likely 2HKO otherwise)


Aside from its offensive abilities, Roserade has another excellent quality: its relative sturdiness. Roserade can easily switch in with relative safety on resisted and/or weak special attacks, such as those of Claydol, Lanturn, Milotic, and Venusaur. This trait further amplifies its sweeping capabilities. Roserade's access to Synthesis also provides it with some longevity, meaning that it won't be as easily worn out by Life Orb recoil, entry hazards, and other residual damage - a downfall of many other similar sweepers.

Because Roserade's massive power combined with its relatively decent special bulk lets it sweep with too much ease through most of UU, I believe it should be BL.

As a reminder, today is the last day for making nominations, so make sure you get your full nominations in under the deadline!