BEEJ said:
I would also appreciate more discussion of Overheat. I have heard the arguments against it, but I've heard very limited arguments for it, and the ones that I've heard were pretty interesting. It should be noted that Overheat provides a very reliable option against Scizor, Lucario and Metagross, but unless you run a very offensive version of CAP10, Overheat doesn't even 3HKO specially defensive Bronzong along with the drops, while Bronzong can easily take the time to do something like set up the screens and switch to a setup Pokemon. Speaking of setup Pokemon, it's also important to remember that Overheat weakens the rest of your special moves, including Surf and Thunderbolt, which leaves you even more susceptible to other threats. Therefore, I'm very reluctant to outright ban Overheat and I think it should remain controversial unless there is more discussion on the matter.
With pleasure.
The biggest reason to support Overheat is that it is the single best option against Lucario and Metagross. I'd like to point out just how significantly better it is than Earthquake against Lucario and Metagross, though, since it might not be obvious initially.
Code:
252 Jolly Leftovers Pokemon Earthquake
vs. 0/4 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 76.9% - 91.1%
vs. 112/12 Adamant Life Orb Metagross : 39.5% - 46.8%
Okay, so what this tells you is that you cannot reliably beat either of these threats with just Earthquake and Leftovers. That's a tragedy really, because it either forces CAP10 to have reliable recovery, which BEEJ already turned down promptly, or it forces us to use a boosting item - the best of which is arguably Life Orb.
For physical sets, Superpower is the way to go against Lucario, so let's look at that too.
Code:
252 Jolly Leftovers Pokemon Superpower
vs. 0/4 Adamant Life Orb Lucario : 92.5% - 109.6%
Still, even after Stealth Rock, you aren't guaranteed that OHKO. If push comes to shove and Lucario has to stick around, even though he dies from LO recoil, he will kill you with a +2 CC.
Code:
0/120/0 Jolly Leftovers Pokemon
vs. 252 Jolly Life Orb Lucario +2 Close Combat : 113.8% - 134.1%
That is the best we can do defensively EV-wise while still outspeeding Jolly Lucario. He maims us. Okay, so now either our CAP10 has to run Life Orb, or we look into other, more powerful, attacking options. Let's check out
Overheat.
Code:
252 Timid Leftovers Pokemon Overheat
vs. Jolly Life Orb Lucario : 108.2% - 127.4%
vs. 112/0 Adamant Life Orb Metagross : 75.4% - 88.8%
176 Timid Leftovers Pokemon Overheat
vs. Jolly Life Orb Lucario : 100.4% - 118.1%
vs. 112/0 Adamant Life Orb Metagross : 69.3% - 82.1%
Immediately, you realize just how hard you hit both of these threats
without carrying a Life Orb. In the absence of reliable healing, Leftovers is going to be CAP10's best friend. The ability to counter Lucario and Metagross without forcing CAP10 into Life Orb-land is invaluable, and Overheat will perhaps become one of CAP10's best countering tools as a result of this. Furthermore, you only need 176 SpA EVs to guarantee the kill on Lucario with a 2HKO guaranteed on Metagross (better if it's switched into SR and has taken a round of LO; we can pump SpA a bit more to guarantee the kill) Despite having just maimed Metagross or Lucario, though, we become setup fodder the turn after with our severely weakened Surfs, Thunderbolts, and consequent Overheats. This balances it out and gives the opponent a fair chance to catch up after having just lost a significant sweeper at no consequence to CAP10's user's team.
Finally, people fear Overheat for one big reason: it gives us a hard-hitting option against Bronzong. Let me show you how that above Overheat we optimized for Lucario actually fares against Bronzong.
Code:
176 Timid Leftovers Pokemon Overheat
vs. Jolly Life Orb Lucario : 100.4% - 118.1%
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 46.2% - 54.4%
176 Timid Leftovers Pokemon -2 Overheat
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 23.1% - 27.8%
176 Timid Leftovers Pokemon -2 Surf
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 11.8% - 14.2%
It doesn't even 3HKO standard Bronzong! No combination of moves beats Bronzong, meanwhile it can throw up some screens and even Explode on you in the time you've just given it to set up. It's even worse if Bronzong decided to come in after you using Overheat already on someone like Lucario.
Only the absolute most offensive CAP10 can threaten a 2HKO to Bronzong with its LO boosted Overheats. Still, despite this, it can
still get up a Light Screen as long as it doesn't switch into the Overheat and then Explode on you.
Code:
252 Timid Life Orb Pokemon Overheat
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 63.9% - 75.7%
252 Timid Life Orb Pokemon -2 Overheat
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong : 32.5% - 38.5%
252 Timid Life Orb Pokemon -2 Overheat
vs. 252/92 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong +LScreen : 16.6% - 19.5%
Timid Life Orb Pokemon
vs. 86 Sassy Leftovers Bronzong Explosion : 104.3% - 122.8%
For fun, I included what Bronzong's return Explosion is against sweeper variants of CAP10 - a surefire OHKO. Anyways, as you can see, Overheat fails to allow you to absolutely beat Bronzong without it getting up screens and then blowing you into oblivion.
Finally, one point I think makes Overheat even more fair.
Overheat is a worse option against Scizor and Forretress than HPFire because it allows you to be set up on the following turn. HPFire is what you will want if you are only care about Scizor and Forretress*, since if you use Overheat, any number of things can setup on the weakened CAP10 the following turns if they switch out. In conclusion, I hope everyone can see and agree with me when I say that not only is Overheat an excellent, viable, and greatly important option to have on CAP10 - it's also not powerful enough to break down the walls that give us the most trouble. In lieu of all of this, I say
Overheat should be on CAP10's movepool.
*Here are the calcs in case you were curious. HPFire doesn't OHKO either of them (it has a chance to against Scizor with SR and always kills Defensive Forret with SR), but it inflicts so much damage that none of them are able to stick around. Furthermore, the -2 doesn't make you into setup fodder the next turn if they predict your cheeky notion. Finally, if Forretress and Scizor don't use Leftovers (Lol @ Leftovers Scizor), they can't switch into SR again - and with Leftovers, Magnezone has a field day with both.
Code:
252 Timid Leftovers Pokemon Overheat
vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 158.6% - 187.8%
vs. 252/0 Relaxed Shed Shell Forretress : 192.1% - 227.1%
vs. 252/212 Careful Leftovers Forretress : 132.2% - 155.9%
252 Timid Leftovers Pokemon (70bp Fire Special)
vs. 248/0 Adamant Choice Band Scizor : 79.3% - 94.5%
vs. 252/0 Relaxed Shed Shell Forretress : 96% - 114.1%
vs. 252/212 Careful Leftovers Forretress : 66.7% - 79.1%
