Hydreigon

Lee · Sep 28, 2010

Wall-Breaker

Sazandora @ Life Orb
Modest
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- U-turn

The combination of Draco Meteor, Taunt and U-turn prevent Blissey from walling this. Standard Bold Blissey loses up to 40% of her health if she comes in on Draco Meteor. Taunt her to prevent her from recovering health and then get a light hit in with U-turn (17% on avg) as you go to a counter. Factoring in the few rounds of Leftovers recovery and Stealth Rock, Blissey will be on 52% health assuming average damage rolls on both Draco Meteor and U-turn. If Sandstorm is in effect, she'll be on 34%! Either way, next time she comes in on the Hydra, she's dead.

With the pink blob out of the way...

Fire Blast vs 252/92+ Bronzong = 79 - 93%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Dusknoir = 83% - 98% (66% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Forretress = 201% - 237% (guaranteed OHKO even with Light Screen in effect for what it's worth)
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Gliscor = 84% - 100% (79% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Gyarados = 80% - 94% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 4/0 Heatran = 46% - 54% (can only come in once)
Draco Meteor vs 252/88 Hippowdon = 88% - 103% (58% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Jirachi or Celebi = 89% - 105% (guaranteed OHKO on Celebi after Stealth Rock / 74% chance to OHKO Jirachi after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Machamp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Metagross = 108% - 128%
Draco Meteor vs 252/16+ Milotic = 59% - 70%
Draco Meteor vs 252/68 Rotom-A = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Skarmory = 98% - 115% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Suicune = 69% - 82%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert = 86% - 101% (46% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Vaporeon = 71% - 84%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Zapdos = 90% - 106% (41% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Birijion (Grass/Fighting @ 91/129) = 75% - 88%
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Nattorei (Grass/Steel @ 74/116) = 135% - 159%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252+ Burungeru (Water/Ghost @ 100/105) = 54% - 64%

Your opponent is going to have a horrible ol' time trying to counter this. Stealth Rock and Modest nature are a must as the calculations demonstrate. Wish support would be ideal but not strictly neccessary. It's handy to know that even if something like Blissey, Milotic or the Water/Ghost predict your Taunt and try to attack they'll struggle to harm the Hydra's very respectable 92/90/90 defenses (Blissey averages 39% with Ice Beam and Milotic averages 49%). Pursuit resistance is very useful here, allowing you to come and go as you please unlike Lati@s.

Thoughts? Possible changes? Any input welcome here.

HART4FLOON · Sep 28, 2010

Sexy. Never knew it could learn taunt o.0

And what's this talk about Sazandora being outclassed? Just read previous comparisons between Mence, Latias, and Sazandora and you'll know. -________-

KokoaKiwi · Sep 28, 2010

Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Surf / U-Turn seems like a decent moveset to me, with a Choice Scarf. You get flawless coverage + U-Turn to scout or lure SE attacks whilst switching into an appropriate counter, or a Ghost.

iruchii · Sep 28, 2010

I really like that set, Lee. I'll be testing it in some Wi-Fi battles later, seeing as I have a Modest Sazandora sitting in my box. (:

One thing that makes its shine is neutrality to SR and immunity to other kinds of hazards! And it seems like it'll pair up well with a Pursuit user so you can trap Blissey if she decides to stay in to take the U-Turn. Anyway, I can see this being amazing on offensive teams! Great set! (on theory at least)

As an experience input, I used Modest Sazandora with Choice Specs just for kicks in a match. Did around 70~80% to Metagross with Draco Meteor. I'm already in love with this thing.

master3669 · Sep 28, 2010

Sazando is being compared with the other dragons way too much, but salamence, garchomp, dragonite, are all physically based dragons, while latias and latios just couldn't survive, because at the time scizor and tyranitar was dominating OU, and STAB pursuit just overpowered the two psychic/dragons. Sazando isn't outclassed at all.

I consider Sazando as an even better version of Zapdos, because they share similar stats. Sazando is even bulkier that Zapdos, They have just about the same speed, the have excellent typing, and they have identical sp.attack. Sazando just has a good attacking movepool, a pretty good attack, and is immune to T-spikes and spikes(like zapdos), and does not have to worry that much about SR like zapdos.

Sazando is really a pokemon that deserves to be the next "salamence"

KokoaKiwi · Sep 28, 2010

master3669 said:
Sazando is really a pokemon that deserves to be the next "salamence"

It's Sazandora. Not sure how could Serebii and all those fuck up on its name.
Anyway, I'm not sure about this statement.
Salamence could boost attack and speed and OHKO stuff like there's no tomorrow. Sazandora may be able to score many OHKOs as well, but outside of Scarf, can't boost it's speed.

Mr.378 · Sep 28, 2010

I'm very exited to use this guy. Dark/Dragon is a great typing to have. His stats allow good sweeping sets on both spectrums, while having ok defenses. All of this while having a good movepool.

His cheer-up mixed set seems to have the most potential in my eyes.

Wanderer · Sep 28, 2010

That set looks tremendous, Lee. It seems like it'll be a great asset against stall and slower teams in general. Perhaps slash Draco Plate (or whatever the +20% item is in 5th gen) over Life Orb? Fire Blast doesn't lose the power to OHKO any of the 4x weaks except in the rain. Metagross is still almost always OHKOed with SR, while Bronzong is still 2HKOed. Jirachi presents a larger problem, but 252 HP variants are often outsped and 2HKOed. Specially defensive Skarm won't be OHKOed anymore but it certainly can't Roost off the damage, meaning it's easily 2HKOed so long as you didn't Meteor it.

In return, you don't lose 20% minimum every time you come in, attack, and U-turn out. With SR and potential sandstorm, you're looking at ~38% every time Sazzy comes in and does its job. I'd say cutting this number in half is worth the slight power drop, especially if you mispredict and stay in to Taunt while something like Milotic smacks you with Ice Beam.

EDIT: It also serves to fake a Choice item, meaning Blissey and the like are less likely to attack right away and use their Tauntable moves. Forry might also feel safe staying in, only to be KOed by the follow-up Fire Blast.

VaxtinTheWolf · Sep 28, 2010

My personal set for use with my Mono-Dark Team. I've read all of the comments on this thread and came up with this.

====
Sazandora (F) @ Draco Plate
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 24 ??? / 252 SAtk / 232 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Earthquake / U-Turn
- Cheer Up
====

Naive nature and 232 speed Ev's give you 319 speed. This out speeds neutral base 100's and positive base 95's. 252 Sp.Atk evs for max damage on special attacks.

With Draco Plate you can bluff specs with Draco Meteor while Dragon Pulse is weaker, but doesn't have the -2 Sp.Atk drop. Fire blast for steels, but you can use Flamethrower if accuracy > Power.

Earthquake hits Heatran so it doesn't wall you, and the Ghost/Fire type. Even with U-turn you can bluff a scarf and act as a scout without being trapped by Shadow Tag as well.

Boost both your offenses with Cheer up late game after you weaken the team with Draco Meteors And have Scouted the opposing team with U-Turn and get a late game Sweep, which is why Dragon Pulse/Flamethrower may be used over Draco Meteor/Fire Blast.

24 Ev's remain that I don't know what to do with. You can put it back into speed to beat the Pure Dragon type with 97 base speed, or put it into HP or Atk for slight bulk increase of harder hitting U-Turns or Earthquakes.

PK Gaming · Sep 28, 2010

Awesome set Lee!

Yeah, I myself like to use Modest Sazandora because the power boost is a welcome addition. The extra really isn't that useful (lol base 98) and you'll be a hit and runner mostly.

Here's the Specs Sazandora I used:

Sazandora @ Choice Specs
Levitate
Modest
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Pulse
- U-turn

Draco Meteor is horribly powerful. 99% of the time your firing off Specs Meteor's. Fire Blast nails those steel type switch in's. (Nattorei in particular) while Dragon Pulse and U-turn are mostly situational. DP is good for sweeping lategame, while U-turn is good for scouting ahead.

(Kinda like the SpecsLatias of yesteryear, except with significantly more power, lack of trick, better coverage,lower speed and pursuit resistance)

Lee · Sep 29, 2010

@wanderer: it's funny you should say that because I originally did have Draco Plate slashed in but as I was running the calculations I constantly found myself writing 'x% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock' and realised that I'd be missing out on quite a few KOs by using Draco Plate. You seem to have already ran the calcs (which I appreciate!) so I won't go into too much detail but things like missing out on the OHKOs against Swampert and Celebi was enough to sway me. Draco Plate also allows Blissey and potentially Heatran to come in on you one extra time which is quite big.

That said, you make an excellent argument in favor of Draco Plate. I was worried about the residual damage enough to reccomend Wish as a team option even though I realise that isn't always practical. Draco Plate is a fine alternative. I know it's an old cliche but it depends on your team. A typical heavy offense team might choose to use Life Orb to come out a few times in the early-mid game and put as many holes as possible in the opponents defenses before dying, hopefully opening something up for the next sweeper to exploit. On the other hand, a bulky offense or balanced team might opt for Draco Plate to allow them to rely on Sazandoro's wall-breaking prowess and resistances throughout the match.

All-in-all, it's worth a mention I think.

JabbaTheGriffin · Sep 29, 2010

Taunt + U-turn + Life Orb seems a bit over the top just to beat Blissey especially when you'll be taking two rounds of life orb + sr + 2 turns of sand storm meaning you're not doing too well off yourself.

Anyway so far my impressions of this Pokemon are: hits like a truck but has terrible speed. 98 base speed just doesn't cut it especially with that fighting weak that means the fighting trio all outspeed/ohko it (PONY) as well as chomp and the base 100s have a fun time with it. So far I've tried out Life Orb (4 attacks and cheer up.....definitely don't use cheer up), Specs and Scarf. So far Scarf would probably be my favorite but Scarfchomp is usually a much more solid choice in that regards. As far as Specs goes, it undeniably hits like a truck, but I much prefer Latias. and in regards to Life Orb, once again it hits pretty damn hard but once again its speed is what really keeps it from being as good as it could be. Sad too because I thought he looked amazing, but unless there's something I'm missing, he's simply outclassed in everything he does.

lmitchell0012 · Sep 29, 2010

This thing is going to have serious issues in OU. With the number of fighting type users running around in OU, along with two priority attacks (one from each side of the spectrum) I don't see this thing surviving very long. I see blaziken/infernape especially revenge killing this guy quite often.

Also, it's disappointing that he didn't get nasty plot, or swords dance, or even calm mind. That would have made him even deadlier...

Afti · Sep 29, 2010

So, everyone's hyped over Sazando's (very nice!) offenses, but they're failing to notice what a good defensive typing Dragon/Dark with Levitate is. It has Electric/Water/Grass/Fire/Ghost/Dark resistances, and is immune to Psychic and Ground.

It has very solid defenses, a fantastic typing, and no quad weaknesses.

So, here's what I've been looking at:

Sazando@Leftovers, Bold

(EVs to be determined based on metagame threats)

-Protect
-Torment
-Substitute
-Dragon Pulse/Dark Pulse/Flamethrower

With proper defense investment, Sazando could play very similar to Tormentran- but with more Speed and a typing that didn't give it a quad weakness to a move as common as Earthquake. Nothing is going to run two moves with the raw power to shatter Sazando's Substitutes; it's not like Heatran, where one of the moves in question is the most common attack in the game. It's weak to Fighting, Dragon, Bug, and Ice; all of these are very very good types, but you don't often see something with more than one of them in its moveset. Well, at least that isn't Choiced; Choice anything is eaten alive by Sazando using this set. It lacks a little bit of Heatran's natural bulk, but is faster and has a far better typing for the most part.

Thoughts?

SJCrew · Sep 29, 2010

Taunt + U-turn + Life Orb seems a bit over the top just to beat Blissey especially when you'll be taking two rounds of life orb + sr + 2 turns of sand storm meaning you're not doing too well off yourself.

Residual damage is part of the game, you can't run that logic to say everything is less significant than it really is. Look at it this way: in those two rounds, you've managed to beat the most prominents special walls in the game, with some help to spare for beating other targets. Sweet deal, no?

Of course, I can see this working until the Blissey players start wising up and using Seismic Toss right off the bat. It's just going to be one big prediction war from there on whether you should Taunt on U-turn. Even still, high risk, high reward. If Sazandora is breaking those walls, then it's doing its job as far as I'm concerned.

I don't see this thing surviving very long. I see blaziken/infernape especially revenge killing this guy quite often.

That's only if you sit there and let it die instead of switching it out so it can do more damage later. Remember revenge killing is revenge killing, not countering. If you already have a leg up on the other guy by killing one of his Pokemon, you have the advantage.

JabbaTheGriffin · Sep 29, 2010

Except when there are Pokemon that do the job of beating one of the best special walls in the game without sacrificing half their health through residual damage and without having to win prediction wars I'd say it's just another instance of Sazando being outclassed at the things it can do. Sure residual damage is part of the game, but there are plenty of Pokemon who can do things while being able to minimalize that factor. In this case, Sazando isn't one of them.

MoogleEnsign · Sep 29, 2010

I don't think sazando would be outclassed if you think of him like blaziken in the uu of 4th gen. He has better stats and more resistances, and can hammer everything very very hard. Almost nothing can switch in on him, while he can switch in on many special attacks.

Anthony Von Hertzon · Sep 29, 2010

Afti said:
So, everyone's hyped over Sazando's (very nice!) offenses, but they're failing to notice what a good defensive typing Dragon/Dark with Levitate is. It has Electric/Water/Grass/Fire/Ghost/Dark resistances, and is immune to Psychic and Ground.

It has very solid defenses, a fantastic typing, and no quad weaknesses.

So, here's what I've been looking at:

Sazando@Leftovers, Bold

(EVs to be determined based on metagame threats)

-Protect
-Torment
-Substitute
-Dragon Pulse/Dark Pulse/Flamethrower

With proper defense investment, Sazando could play very similar to Tormentran- but with more Speed and a typing that didn't give it a quad weakness to a move as common as Earthquake. Nothing is going to run two moves with the raw power to shatter Sazando's Substitutes; it's not like Heatran, where one of the moves in question is the most common attack in the game. It's weak to Fighting, Dragon, Bug, and Ice; all of these are very very good types, but you don't often see something with more than one of them in its moveset. Well, at least that isn't Choiced; Choice anything is eaten alive by Sazando using this set. It lacks a little bit of Heatran's natural bulk, but is faster and has a far better typing for the most part.

Thoughts?

I can see this being really effective. Due to sazandora having that good typing, coupled with a great ability and amazing offensive strengths, it can really punch holes in walls who aren't prepared for Torment.

Afti · Sep 29, 2010

More to the point- TormentAndo isn't a simple wallbreaker.

It's a wall. A hell of a wall.

Having that sexy 98 Speed lets it make substantial Defense investments TormentTran wishes it could get away with, so the difference in bulk isn't nearly as pronounced. It doesn't have Lava Plume's Burn chance, but its STAB isn't resisted by nearly as much.

(It could also run Taunt, again much like Heatran, with basically the same pros and cons.)

Aqueos · Sep 29, 2010

CHOICE SPECS DRACO METEOR Yeah that was what did it. If you thought that latias had a scary draco meteor, just look at this thing. That can put a dent in even steel types. Blind draco meteor spam is ok, especially considering it has flamethrower.

dudeup1 · Sep 29, 2010

DevilinDenial said:
Why are we talking about these stats? It's all about the name people. Sazando. SAZANDO. Say that out loud. Now look at it. It's OU by appearance.

On a serious note, Sazando gets the ability to come in on most Ghosts, Psychics, Fire and Grass types, attack and then retreat from the opponent's switchin, perfectly complementing Draco Meteor. Scizor and most Bug-Types dare not switch into a boosted Flamethrower. Blissey fears a LO'ed Crunch defense drop and the it only needs Draco Meteor/Flamethrower for coverage on everything but Heatran.

My only issue with it is that it evolves at level 64 and that, for some odd reason, after giving everything an enormous movepool in Gen 4 they decided to disallow Dark Pulse with Earth Power. It would have been a great all-out attacker.

dude you are wrong too is sazandora and why it doesnt learn persuit i dunno?

edit: it does learn u-turn and taunt which are both amazing moves

ajajayjay · Sep 29, 2010

Do we even know if this guy's even getting draco meteor/pursuit? because i don't see where it says he learns either, yet everyones including draco in their movesets. If he doesn't get it, he'll definitely be inferior to latias regardless of pursuit weakness...

Murkglow · Sep 29, 2010

Draco Meteor is a move tutor in Gen V and that's how he learns it, or so I read.

Omnipresent · Sep 29, 2010

Lee said:
Wall-Breaker

Sazandora @ Life Orb
Modest
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- U-turn

The combination of Draco Meteor, Taunt and U-turn prevent Blissey from walling this. Standard Bold Blissey loses up to 40% of her health if she comes in on Draco Meteor. Taunt her to prevent her from recovering health and then get a light hit in with U-turn (17% on avg) as you go to a counter. Factoring in the few rounds of Leftovers recovery and Stealth Rock, Blissey will be on 52 health assuming average damage rolls on both Draco Meteor and U-turn. If Sandstorm is in effect, she'll be on 34%! Either way, next time she comes in on the Hydra, she's dead.

With the pink blob out of the way...

Fire Blast vs 252/92+ Bronzong = 79 - 93%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Dusknoir = 83% - 98% (66% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Forretress = 201% - 237% (guaranteed OHKO even with Light Screen in effect for what it's worth)
Draco Meteor vs 252/252 Gliscor = 84% - 100% (79% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Gyarados = 80% - 94% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 4/0 Heatran = 46% - 54% (can only come in once)
Draco Meteor vs 252/88 Hippowdon = 88% - 103% (58% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Jirachi or Celebi = 89% - 105% (guaranteed OHKO on Celebi after Stealth Rock / 74% chance to OHKO Jirachi after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Machamp = 94% - 111% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Metagross = 108% - 128%
Draco Meteor vs 252/16+ Milotic = 59% - 70%
Draco Meteor vs 252/68 Rotom-A = 92% - 108% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Skarmory = 98% - 115% (guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Suicune = 69% - 82%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Swampert = 86% - 101% (46% chance to OHKO after
Stealth Rock)
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Vaporeon = 71% - 84%
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Zapdos = 90% - 106% (41% chance to OHKO without Stealth Rock)
Fire Blast vs 252/0 Birijion (Grass/Fighting @ 91/129) = 75% - 88%
Fire Blast vs 252/252+ Nattorei (Grass/Steel @ 74/116) = 135% - 159%
Draco Meteor vs 252/252+ Burungeru (Water/Ghost @ 100/105) = 54% - 64%

Your opponent is going to have a horrible ol' time trying to counter this.
Stealth Rock and Modest nature are a must as the calculations demonstrate. Wish support would be ideal but not strictly neccessary. It's handy to know that even if something like Blissey, Milotic or the Water/Ghost predict your Taunt and try to attack they'll struggle to harm the Hydra's very respectable 92/90/90 defenses (Blissey averages 39% with Ice Beam and Milotic averages 49%). Pursuit resistance is very useful here, allowing you to come and go as
you please unlike Lati@s.

Thoughts? Possible changes? Any input welcome here.

I'm loving this set. I really like this set a lot. I'm liking the idea of Wish Blissey or Vaporeon helping him as they are respectable switch ins (barring Fighting types of course).

dudeup1 · Sep 29, 2010

ajajayjay said:
Do we even know if this guy's even getting draco meteor/pursuit? because i don't see where it says he learns either, yet everyones including draco in their movesets. If he doesn't get it, he'll definitely be inferior to latias regardless of pursuit weakness...

you can teach it D.meteor via move tutor but pursuit isnt there this guy is more of a SP. attack sweeper as you can get dark pulse via egg move, outrage is learned at lvl 70ish and hyper voice is good too and it can learn U-turn which makes for a powerfull combo

Hydreigon

Lee

@ Thick Club

HART4FLOON

KokoaKiwi

iruchii

master3669

KokoaKiwi

Mr.378

The Iron Man of Ubers

Wanderer

VaxtinTheWolf

PK Gaming

Persona 5

Lee

@ Thick Club

JabbaTheGriffin

Stormblessed

lmitchell0012

Wi-Fi Blacklisted

Afti

SJCrew

Believer, going on a journey...

JabbaTheGriffin

Stormblessed

MoogleEnsign

Anthony Von Hertzon

Afti

Aqueos

dudeup1

ajajayjay

Murkglow

Omnipresent

dudeup1

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)