Kingdra

iruchii said:
What can Empoleon do to Kingdra? Toxic it?
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ice beam or grass knot does a fair amount of damage to offensive versions sure it doesnt ohko(maybe not even 2hko lol) but it walls kingdra pretty good and will get him down.

on topic: Kingdra seems to stay pretty much the same, but the enviroment around him seems to be pretty kind to him providing him with endless rain through politoad.
Boiling water will see some use on the defensive sets and another pokemon now resists its dual stab (sadly for kingdra it seems to be pretty good on the defensive side).
His movepool may be shallow but he gets everything he needs in form of Resttalk/Dragon Dance/Waterfall/Surf/Hydropump/Dragon Pulse/Outrage/Draco Meteor and the occasional Hidden Power on Specs sets, sure things like thunder or flame thrower wouldnt hurt but he will do well without them.

Also dont forget his Chest rest set
Kingdra@Chesto Berry
Nature:Jolly/Adamant
Evs:192 HP/64Atk/252 Spe(forgot the exact ev set but i bleive it was something like this)
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Waterfall
-Rest

Simple Strategy get as many DDs as you can while your opponent statuses/attacks you then use rest and start to sweep, its a pretty good late game sweeper if you manage to get some DDs up especially because he isnt killed of that easy by priority.

Edit:
@iruchii of course your right he is a much better stop to kingdra just wanted to show how empoleon beats him not that he is doing it better
 
BurningMan said:
ice beam or grass knot does a fair amount of damage to offensive versions sure it doesnt ohko(maybe not even 2hko lol) but it walls kingdra pretty good and will get him down.
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But the same can be said about Nattorei and Power Whip, which will achieve the same results (and I'm pretty sure it 2HKOs). So he's not "unlike" Empoleon and, in fact, may be even better at countering Kingdra due to its superior defenses.
 
Empoleon is easily 3HKOed by a +1 Outrage, while it cannot 2HKO back with Ice Beam or Grass Knot. Nattorei can 2HKO with Power Whip. Empoleon does have Roar, but it likes to run Yawn, which performs the same basic duties unless against a Substitute. In this case, Roar would be the better option, but Yawn is typically more useful and as such, I'm not sure Empoleon would be running Roar.
 
The OP really loves Specsdra but since its a beast you know the drill.
K-dra in gen 5 might dominate due to the drizzlelitoed,more dragon, and
his water typing. Seriously if water ground typing is an ultimate typing
Then Water Dragon come in close due to 4x resistance on F/W and 1/2x on steel
 
blasphemy1 said:
Empoleon is easily 3HKOed by a +1 Outrage, while it cannot 2HKO back with Ice Beam or Grass Knot. Nattorei can 2HKO with Power Whip. Empoleon does have Roar, but it likes to run Yawn, which performs the same basic duties unless against a Substitute. In this case, Roar would be the better option, but Yawn is typically more useful and as such, I'm not sure Empoleon would be running Roar.
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What are you talking about?Yawn is absolute horrible aginst kingdra.Most sets have a way around status.90% of the Kingdra you see either have Sub,Restalk,Lum Berry,Chesto Berry.If your aiming for Kingdra Roar would deffinetly be a better option.
Yah but in general Yawn is ideal for Kingdra.I have seen few Empoleons putting Roar to great use however.
 
iruchii said:
But the same can be said about Nattorei and Power Whip, which will achieve the same results (and I'm pretty sure it 2HKOs). So he's not "unlike" Empoleon and, in fact, may be even better at countering Kingdra due to its superior defenses.
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Don't forget, leech seeding Kingdras without substitute will make it a huge pain in the ass for them attempting the sweep. A defensive variant of Kingdra might not have the potency or time to break through many walls when it's giving them a portion of its health per turn.
 
blasphemy1 said:
Empoleon is easily 3HKOed by a +1 Outrage, while it cannot 2HKO back with Ice Beam or Grass Knot. Nattorei can 2HKO with Power Whip. Empoleon does have Roar, but it likes to run Yawn, which performs the same basic duties unless against a Substitute. In this case, Roar would be the better option, but Yawn is typically more useful and as such, I'm not sure Empoleon would be running Roar.
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This just goes to show that in Rain, Kingdra doesn't really have "counters" as it out speeds everything, and does massive damage to it. A pokemon would need to be able to switch and do massive damage to Kingdra. It looks like Empoleon does a decent job at walling it, but, can't do that much back. Roar is quite rare on empoleon, they usually run offensive sets. Bulk up Dialga, and Jolly Rayquaza seems like the best counters. Dialga can switch in, and OHKO with a outrage, While Rayquaza outspeeds, OHKOes with Draco meteor or Outrage.
 
The most deadly kingdra sets with easy rain are:

-Rain Dance
-Hydro Pump
-Dragon Pulse
-Signal Beam

If you can eliminate blissey/snorlax and vaporeon it runs through entire teams. (see sig)

-Waterfall
-Hydro Pump
-Dragon Dance
-Draco Meteor

With politoed support, this is really only stopped by vaporeon.
 
Chesto Rest is dumb on perma-rain Kingdra. Just use the DD Mix Ubers set:

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Naughty
EVs: 92 SpA/252 Atk/164 Spe
-Dragon Dance
-Waterfall
-Outrage
-Draco Meteor

Drizzle is stupidly broken. Kingdra and Sub-Seed Swift Swim Ludicolo are impossible to stop when paired.
 
Eggbert said:
The most deadly kingdra sets with easy rain are:
-Rain Dance
-Hydro Pump
-Dragon Pulse
-Signal Beam
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Signal Beam should be changed, the coverage it get is Celebi, and I'm not even sure that OHKoes it, I would recommend Surf in it's place or even Hideen power. Surf is definitely the superior option because it's a powerful StAB, while hidden power would only be needed to hit specific threats.
 
STEELDRAGON said:
Signal Beam should be changed, the coverage it get is Celebi, and I'm not even sure that OHKoes it, I would recommend Surf in it's place or even Hideen power. Surf is definitely the superior option because it's a powerful StAB, while hidden power would only be needed to hit specific threats.
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He has Hydro Pump. I reccomend HP Fighting if truly desired for coverage, as it hits Empoleon and Nattorei SE.
 
Eh Empoleon isn't a counter to Kingdra. The rain sweeper does 48.1% - 56.7% which is a likely 2hko and bulkier versions can feasibly set-up DD on Empoleon. Yeah, Roar and Yawn can be issues but seriously who uses bulky Empoleon outside of the lead spot? d:

Nattorei is a hard counter though. But a trapper or a bait like Expert Belt Sazandora/Tyranitar can be used to eliminate it.
 
There are also a few new cloud nine pokemon two, Lickilikiy, and Altaria, If Kingdra doens't run a + speed nature, then it could be OHKOed by Altaria before it gets to do anything. Lickilikiy, is bulky enough to to take a hit and explode on it.
 
STEELDRAGON said:
There are also a few new cloud nine pokemon two, Lickilikiy, and Altaria, If Kingdra doens't run a + speed nature, then it could be OHKOed by Altaria before it gets to do anything. Lickilikiy, is bulky enough to to take a hit and explode on it.
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That's why I would use Dragon Dance on Perma Rain Kingdra. :)
 
Seriously though. Who uses Cloud Nine users when they weren't even that viable in Generation IV? Rayquaza's, like, the only one-stop guy to mixed Kingdra.

This thing is so versatile it hurts to look at even it D/P sets right now. so many mixed sets...
 
VOLCANO said:
Wanted to make one of the most gimmicky set for his new ability sniper, just for the LOLZ

Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Sniper Ability
Timid Nature
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
-Yawn
-Focus Energy
-Surf
-Dragon Pulse

The strategy here is to switch into a fire user since Kingdra x4 resists, then Yawn on the switch in. The next turn you should use Focus Energy to start raising your Critical Hit stages, with HP EVs hopefully Kingdra will take whatever hit is coming at him then your opponent falls asleep. Your opponent's Kingdra counter will now be asleep and you will have a 25% chance of critting them for over 3x damage! Surf and Dragon Pulse are for good STAB and coverage, however Empoleon and Nattorei resist both hits. But who cares if you crit them?!

The major downside to this gimmick set is that Kingdra has absolutely NO high critical hit ratio moves in his movepool. The upside to using Kingdra is that he only has weakness to Dragon and has decent speed. I could REALLY seeing this HAX set working on the ever-gimmicky Rain Dance team :P
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I've used this set, actually, and it's not as gimmick-y as you make it out to be. In fact, it works quite well for me. However, I use Agility instead of Yawn for the equivalent of a Rain Dance boost. I also have 252 SpAtk EVs and 4 HP EVs, sort of opposite of your set. When used correctly, this ""gimmick"" can be rather deadly.
 
AccidentalGreed said:
Seriously though. Who uses Cloud Nine users when they weren't even that viable in Generation IV? Rayquaza's, like, the only one-stop guy to mixed Kingdra.

This thing is so versatile it hurts to look at even it D/P sets right now. so many mixed sets...
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Seriously, what can handle the trio of Shell Break Gorebyss + Kingdra + Subseed Swift Swim Ludicolo? The only thing that comes to mind is Specially Defensive Nattorei and he can be handled by a fighting type like Kojondo or Kobaruon. OMG, rain will be sooo broken.
 
If politoed isn't banned, I will have tons of fun using my fave pokemon.

And although dragon is his one weakness, Kingdra also learns dragon moves with earnest, so to me that dragon weakness is only an issue when the opponent predicts my switch. I love this thing and will still use it in gen V :D
 
Kingdra barely changed at all except for getting Boiling Water

Also am i the only one who finds it amusing that Shedinja stops every set listed in the OP bar the one with Toxic?
 
Kingdra has a new counter...
Nattorei completely counters kingdra and is common D;

Also the scope lens + sniper set... isn't scope lens a hax item and banned
 
Karoda Gai said:
Kingdra has a new counter...
Nattorei completely counters kingdra and is common D;

Also the scope lens + sniper set... isn't scope lens a hax item and banned
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Nope. Why should Scope Lens be hax in the first place? I mean, crits happen, like, 6~12 percent of the time. As of now it is not banned.
 
STEELDRAGON said:
Signal Beam should be changed, the coverage it get is Celebi, and I'm not even sure that OHKoes it, I would recommend Surf in it's place or even Hideen power. Surf is definitely the superior option because it's a powerful StAB, while hidden power would only be needed to hit specific threats.
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Actually, Celebi, even if it's physical, it can wall this set if it doesn't run signal beam.
Physically defensive Celebi can survive an ice beam or dragon pulse and thunder wave you, and then recover every turn to wait for paralysis and then outstall with leech seed and recover.
It can't come in, though(Unsure about dragon pulse). But yeah, signal beam is not bad, and it will OHKO most variants of Celebi. I'd say it's worth it..
 
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