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Deoxys-D
- Thread starter gvmgvm40
- Start date
Indeed, 90% is more than necessary. I was giving examples from both ends of the spectrum.
However, 50% is hardly enough, with the previous example of Blissey. If it only walls 50% of OU, it's perfectly reasonable for a team to be expected to have a way around it. This is especially true considering the possibility that the Wi-fi rule of teams being revealed before the battle may become standard. I can't say I'm wholeheartedly a fan of the rule, and I do think it should be tested before we decide whether or not it will become standard, but it should make powerful Pokemon much easier to work around, and will likely decrease the number of bans.
And, as also explained, the team being fought in that battle was more than capable of taking down a Deoxys-D that was so thoroughly Taunt bait. Deoxys-D is doing well now because it's an unusual Pokemon that most players lack experience fighting against. That doesn't mean in the slightest that it will be found to be broken when it is tested.
I don't think that any testing of this rule (it's more of a mechanic than a rule) is necessary at all. It should be implemented, if for no other reason, to maintain consistency between the two forms of play, considering the only way to turn it off is to engage in local IR battles, which nobody ever does.
If it matters, I've been trying that set, and it's amazing. It's done a great job in almost all of my matches, and it's really pretty easy to use.
Rule tweaks with basis in the games themselves are within the acceptable limits of a simulator.
Of course, if it isn't tested at all and is just implemented regardless, that just ensures that Deoxys-D and other such Pokemon will likely be that much more manageable.
An alternative that I posted a few pages ago:
The only things you lose are Leftover recovery and Substitute. It's more vulnerable to crits, but that's offset somewhat by the fact that the most threatening attackers will be frequently phazing out. It's also more vulnerable to status, and faster status users.
252 HP / 204 Def is necessary; some of the SpD investment could go into speed, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it. 16 EVs would bring it to 220 speed, always outspeeding max speed neutral natured base 60s, but again that's not a particularly important number.
This set has a few advantages over the set SJCrew posted, but also disadvantages. Red Card gives it something like Roar, so you can stall the other team out with Stealth Rock/Spikes and without Toxic Spikes. (Anything immune to Toxic Spikes can potentially outlast the Substitute set--by boosting stats or recovering in between Taunts, by eventually getting a crit when Sub is down, etc.) Red Card also lets you force out certain sweepers before they do any damage to your team; for example, if at full health, you can come in on a Doryuuzu as it SDs, always survive a +2 X-Scissor after damage from sandstorm and rocks, and Recover as it's forced out.
The only things you lose are Leftover recovery and Substitute. It's more vulnerable to crits, but that's offset somewhat by the fact that the most threatening attackers will be frequently phazing out. It's also more vulnerable to status, and faster status users.
252 HP / 204 Def is necessary; some of the SpD investment could go into speed, but I'm not sure if it would be worth it. 16 EVs would bring it to 220 speed, always outspeeding max speed neutral natured base 60s, but again that's not a particularly important number.
It is funny how Porygon2 > Deoxys now. The only stat which Deoxys-D trumps Porygon2 in is Speed, which is actually bad because it means Porygon2 is better in Trick Room.
It sucks how the Pokémon with the highest defenses are so Taunt weak.
And Blissey can't wall them all day. Porygon-Z 2HKOs it.
It sucks how the Pokémon with the highest defenses are so Taunt weak.
And Blissey can't wall them all day. Porygon-Z 2HKOs it.
No. Replace Porygon with Phione and Deoxys with Smeargle. Deoxys is still better than Porygon2, because porygon2 has a very shallow support movepool, while deoxys-D has a vast support movepool.
Well, we can't go around saying one is better than the other tbh. Deoxys-L is better in some situations, and Porygon2 is better in others.
The two Pokemon are just being compared now because they're associated with high defenses, but they're quite different. For example, as you mentioned, Deoxys has more support options than Porygon2, even if it has lower offenses and defenses.
I hope this is a joke. Higher speed is automatically bad because of the possibility of Trick Room? Really? The Porygon-Deoxys debate has already been hammered to death in this thread. Porygon2 and Deoxys have significantly different niches, each with the necessary support movepools to pull it off. I'm not going to bother listing them again, but I'd just like to point out that in the logs that SJCrew posted, Deoxys was in play for turns 13-77. That's 400% of leftovers recovery. Now throw in Deoxys's ridiculously big support movepool. Outclassed? Hardly.
I agree with Deoxys's suspect status. I have my doubts about this thing's utility in a new generation of hard hitters. It definitely has its merits though. Psychic typing sucks, but there are very few viable users of Pursuit, and with the addition of a torrent of new Fighting Pokemon, Deoxys's typing may prove useful yet. Deoxys is a Pokemon that can be effective with proper support from the rest of the team. However, you cannot just slap it on any team and expect it to do well, as opposed to something like Blissey in 4th gen.
I think that an explanation for some of these sets would be helpful, instead of just leaving the reader to piece together the purpose of each set.
Base 90 is actually one of the slowest Pokemon in the uber tier. In Gen IV the only Pokemon slower than that are Wobbuffet and Wynaut.
Deoxys-D is one of seven Gen IV Ubers with base 90 speed. Referencing just the Pokemon that are slower than it doesn't say much.
Not that it would say much to begin with. Ubers aren't the only things used in the Uber metagame, and we aren't talking about the Uber metagame in the first place.
In Gen IV, even Rotom-A was considered reasonably bulky with defenses that don't even come close to Deoxys-D's, and from what I know they have the same HP. Gen V might have brought on a huge power-creep but Deoxys-D's by no means frail. :/
And the offensive variants all blow chunks. There I said it. Can't even KO Hihidaruma with Superpower.
You may have had a point if Porygon2 had Stealth Rock, Spikes, Taunt, Reflect, Light Screen, Knock Off, Cosmic Power, Calm Mind, Counter, Mirror Coat, the ability to hold an item other than Pre-Evolution Stone and, by extension, the ability to use Trick.
Porygon2 just sits there and jerks off. All he can do is status things and fire off weak special attacks. Maybe set up TR or surprise you with Magic Coat.
All that said, I still haven't seen a single Deoxys-D on PO but I've seen quite a few P2's. I can't imagine why.
Deoxys D? How about Chansey@Evo stone. I mean, the thing takes LO Garchomp's Outrage and takes less than 50% against it. With sub + Heal Bell + Wish + protect, and even 1 layer of toxic spikes down, Chansey stalls out so many people it's not funny.
Eventually i'll save a log of my stall team in action and how they can turn the tables so quick it's not even funny. Hell that Deoxys is pretty sick too. The only problem i've had is with other weather teams, since i'm using a variant of DragonTamer's 32 turns of stall team.
Eventually i'll save a log of my stall team in action and how they can turn the tables so quick it's not even funny. Hell that Deoxys is pretty sick too. The only problem i've had is with other weather teams, since i'm using a variant of DragonTamer's 32 turns of stall team.
its funny to think that those that most say overshadow deo-D(pory, chansey etc) is the pokemon that lost miserably to deo-D.
Set i use AND work really well(beware of sub though)
Fuck those wall set
252 HP/124 def/132 spe(can be fixed this spread dont work well sometime but at least 132 speed is a must)
Knock off
Recover
Thunder Wave
Taunt
This set rapes every common wall in the metagame including EVERY evo stoner, Hippowdon, Blissey, as a bonus is an adept at facing non shadow ball deoxys offensive variants(which cant even beat mew), Latis to an extent, skarm(with or without brave bird) and as a bonus cripple some attacker. However this set is sub weak too bad.
As a staller hes worst than mew who have synchronize, will o wisp, and 100 speed which is crucial.
Set i use AND work really well(beware of sub though)
Fuck those wall set
252 HP/124 def/132 spe(can be fixed this spread dont work well sometime but at least 132 speed is a must)
Knock off
Recover
Thunder Wave
Taunt
This set rapes every common wall in the metagame including EVERY evo stoner, Hippowdon, Blissey, as a bonus is an adept at facing non shadow ball deoxys offensive variants(which cant even beat mew), Latis to an extent, skarm(with or without brave bird) and as a bonus cripple some attacker. However this set is sub weak too bad.
As a staller hes worst than mew who have synchronize, will o wisp, and 100 speed which is crucial.
"oh, it's a Psychic type. It MUST suck."
That's probably why you never see it.
He can be tough to kill, so I'm surprised he's not used more...oh wait...people automatically think Psychic types suck.
That's probably why you never see it.
He can be tough to kill, so I'm surprised he's not used more...oh wait...people automatically think Psychic types suck.