Even if SDS forgot about that, Lickilicky is terrible; Wish + Cloud Nine is illegal, Lickilicky does very poorly against weather sweepers (huge movepool or not, it can't take boosted hits worth shit), and is terribly slow without any priority to back it up.
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What aren't we writing about? (Pokemon unfit for OU Analyses)
- Thread starter Seven Deadly Sins
- Start date
Problem i see with walrein(stallrein in particular) is he need Sub, tect, and 2 move, 1 slot usualy for toxic. due to his crap typing, he get layer damage from SR making taunt user especialy deoxys-D stomp him over (blame pressure + taunt recover).
Also, he can be a set up bait to taunt user and boosting rester and ranky.
EVEN in hail team i dont find a good niche on this one especialy in this many fighting metagame. Hail team (stall one) dont use many ice type after all. They use Aboma, Spinblocker, Fighting resistor, 3 filler. usualy you use Poison type as fighting resistor
which leaves you 3 slot. The poison uses T spikes mostly so you have 3 slot which 1 slot is for hazzard setter such as skarm. The 2 slot is better filled by stallish pokemon than ice type spam like most do.
Seriously the biggest reason hail isnt success in the metagame is because most hail team used is those boring AND impractical Aboma, Mamo, Fross, Stallrein, Regice, Filler crap
Also, he can be a set up bait to taunt user and boosting rester and ranky.
EVEN in hail team i dont find a good niche on this one especialy in this many fighting metagame. Hail team (stall one) dont use many ice type after all. They use Aboma, Spinblocker, Fighting resistor, 3 filler. usualy you use Poison type as fighting resistor
which leaves you 3 slot. The poison uses T spikes mostly so you have 3 slot which 1 slot is for hazzard setter such as skarm. The 2 slot is better filled by stallish pokemon than ice type spam like most do.
Seriously the biggest reason hail isnt success in the metagame is because most hail team used is those boring AND impractical Aboma, Mamo, Fross, Stallrein, Regice, Filler crap
I think Sceptile warrants some mention since it's the fastest Subseeder that can actually do something offensively, since Shaymin-S is now banned. It also outspeeds a most of the current metagame and put the hurt on various threats with Leaf Storm, Focus Blast, Hidden Power, and Dragon Pulse. It is also one of the few pokemon that can KO Manaphy(non Rindo Berry Variants) before it gets out of control. Scarf variants, can outspeed and OHKO many of the weather sweepers
wtf why is sceptile on the list i thought i took it off
fixed
fixed
Why is Chillachino excluded from OU analysis? Skill link, 115 base speed and excellent move coverage allow it OHKOs on several OU threats, even without hazard support. Pokes like Swampert, Hippowdon, Suicune, Burungeru and Shanderaa are just ruined by 125BP super effective attacks - and for when neutral damage is all you can hope for, she's still got Tail Slap.
I second this. Chillachino can perform in a way that no other Pokemon can with its movepool, and it even gets Cheer Up to boost its attack stat if the possibility arises. Even without Cheer Up, it has Tail Slap, Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, and Aqua Tail, scoring near-perfect neutral coverage with just high enough an Attack stat and a great Speed stat to put this quality to use.
Skill Link is Chillachino's Dream World ability (which has not been released yet)
Technician is good, but not great. Chillachino isn't really worth bothering about until Skill Link rolls around, as that will significantly increase its average damage potential. Before that, I can't see any reason to use it over (insert generic Normal-type physical sweeper here).
Technician is good, but not great. Chillachino isn't really worth bothering about until Skill Link rolls around, as that will significantly increase its average damage potential. Before that, I can't see any reason to use it over (insert generic Normal-type physical sweeper here).
Ahh, I didn't think about that. Chillachino is completely outclassed without Skill Link, even with Technician, so you're absolutely right.
I believe that Entei should be removed from the list. Sure, he doesn't have Flare Blitz to abuse that nice Attack stat, but consider the following.
1) Stealth Rock is not as common as it was last generation. Without Stealth Rock, Entei's bulk can be of reasonable use to a team.
2) Ninetales bringing Drought around gives Entei a nice place on Sun teams, and he is bulkier than most other Fire types thanks to decent 115-85-75 defense stats.
3) He is one of the few legitimate Fire-type users of Calm Mind (the other two being Ninetales and Shanderaa.) He has a "good-enough" special movepool to make use of it, with *insert fire type attack of choice here,* Extrasensory, Shadow Ball, and Solarbeam (which is a legitimate choice on a sun team.)
4)He can then use Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers, making him very bulky from both ends of the spectrum.
5) He got a few new toys in the generation shift, mainly in Nitro Charge, Level Ground, and Eruption. He is fast and powerful enough to make a decent Eruption-user. Nitro Charge is physical and can boost his speed up to better levels. Level Ground gives him a (somewhat unreliable but still existent) way to handle Heatran, who otherwise walls him.
6) He can run a decent mixed-scarf set, using any combination of Eruption, Stone Edge, Level Ground, Solarbeam (in sun,) Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Lava Plume, Shadow Ball, and Extrasensory.
7) He can Roar to help phaze, scout, and deal Spikes/Toxic Spikes damage. He has enough bulk to handle this role.
I know that he doesn't have the best movepool in the game, but he can work with what he has been given. His movepool isn't as abysmal as it may seem at first. I feel that this generation, Entei can finally secure himself a space on OU teams.
1) Stealth Rock is not as common as it was last generation. Without Stealth Rock, Entei's bulk can be of reasonable use to a team.
2) Ninetales bringing Drought around gives Entei a nice place on Sun teams, and he is bulkier than most other Fire types thanks to decent 115-85-75 defense stats.
3) He is one of the few legitimate Fire-type users of Calm Mind (the other two being Ninetales and Shanderaa.) He has a "good-enough" special movepool to make use of it, with *insert fire type attack of choice here,* Extrasensory, Shadow Ball, and Solarbeam (which is a legitimate choice on a sun team.)
4)He can then use Will-O-Wisp to cripple physical attackers, making him very bulky from both ends of the spectrum.
5) He got a few new toys in the generation shift, mainly in Nitro Charge, Level Ground, and Eruption. He is fast and powerful enough to make a decent Eruption-user. Nitro Charge is physical and can boost his speed up to better levels. Level Ground gives him a (somewhat unreliable but still existent) way to handle Heatran, who otherwise walls him.
6) He can run a decent mixed-scarf set, using any combination of Eruption, Stone Edge, Level Ground, Solarbeam (in sun,) Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Lava Plume, Shadow Ball, and Extrasensory.
7) He can Roar to help phaze, scout, and deal Spikes/Toxic Spikes damage. He has enough bulk to handle this role.
I know that he doesn't have the best movepool in the game, but he can work with what he has been given. His movepool isn't as abysmal as it may seem at first. I feel that this generation, Entei can finally secure himself a space on OU teams.
Entei DOES have Flare Blitz: he got it as an event move, along with Extremespeed (as one of the shiny "Crown" legendaries)
Also, Chillachiino with technician is still usable; Technician makes it's multi hit attacks more powerful, and also lets it use wake-up slap. It's designed to break subs, don't forget.
Also, Chillachiino with technician is still usable; Technician makes it's multi hit attacks more powerful, and also lets it use wake-up slap. It's designed to break subs, don't forget.
However, it should be noted that Flare Blitz and Extremespeed are incompatible with Flash Fire.
(...How are we going to get Pokémon Online programmed so that any Entei with Flare Blitz or Extremespeed has to be shiny?)
(...How are we going to get Pokémon Online programmed so that any Entei with Flare Blitz or Extremespeed has to be shiny?)
Then that only furthers Entei's usability in OU. I definitely want to write the analysis for him now.
He should be removed from the "Non-OU" list.
He should be removed from the "Non-OU" list.
No to Entei. There are a couple major reasons:
1: Spikes are much, much more common, and saying "stealth rock is less common" is iffy in general, because if the opponent gets SR and 1 layer of Spikes, Entei can only switch in twice total.
2: Sun sucks ass right now. Basically every single weather changer beats Sun like a drum- Hippowdon has enough bulk to take Entei's attacks, Tyranitar just laughs it off, and Politoed both resists and rain-weakens the Flare Blitz.
3: Calm Mind is just... not interesting. 90 Special Attack isn't winning it any awards, and with no reliable recovery, it's not going to last long enough to accrue enough boosts to actually deal interesting damage.
4: The fact that Heatran is basically the best switchin to it possible doesn't really help it, because it can't really leverage Will-O-Wisp that way.
5: Grounded and SR weak makes Eruption trash. Nitro Charge is "ok", but its physical movepool isn't all that stellar, and Nitro Charge itself is weak. Level Ground is doubly weak- 60 base power does not a coverage move make.
6: Mixed Scarf? Really? Its offenses are mediocre enough as-is, and now you want to split EVs? Not buyin it.
Also, a couple other things.
Flare Blitz Entei is locked Adamant, which means it really can't take advantage of its speed that well. That makes the mixed Scarf set even worse, because using Flare Blitz means weakening all of its special attacks. On top of that, it's basically outclassed entirely by Arcanine. It has slightly less bulk, but it has "more speed" due to not being locked into Adamant, more Special Attack, two actually useful abilities (intimidate and flash fire, fuck yeah), the potential for reliable healing in the form of Morning Sun, and most importantly, CLOSE COMBAT HOLY SHIT letting it get past Heatran and Tyranitar reliably.
1: Spikes are much, much more common, and saying "stealth rock is less common" is iffy in general, because if the opponent gets SR and 1 layer of Spikes, Entei can only switch in twice total.
2: Sun sucks ass right now. Basically every single weather changer beats Sun like a drum- Hippowdon has enough bulk to take Entei's attacks, Tyranitar just laughs it off, and Politoed both resists and rain-weakens the Flare Blitz.
3: Calm Mind is just... not interesting. 90 Special Attack isn't winning it any awards, and with no reliable recovery, it's not going to last long enough to accrue enough boosts to actually deal interesting damage.
4: The fact that Heatran is basically the best switchin to it possible doesn't really help it, because it can't really leverage Will-O-Wisp that way.
5: Grounded and SR weak makes Eruption trash. Nitro Charge is "ok", but its physical movepool isn't all that stellar, and Nitro Charge itself is weak. Level Ground is doubly weak- 60 base power does not a coverage move make.
6: Mixed Scarf? Really? Its offenses are mediocre enough as-is, and now you want to split EVs? Not buyin it.
Also, a couple other things.
Flare Blitz Entei is locked Adamant, which means it really can't take advantage of its speed that well. That makes the mixed Scarf set even worse, because using Flare Blitz means weakening all of its special attacks. On top of that, it's basically outclassed entirely by Arcanine. It has slightly less bulk, but it has "more speed" due to not being locked into Adamant, more Special Attack, two actually useful abilities (intimidate and flash fire, fuck yeah), the potential for reliable healing in the form of Morning Sun, and most importantly, CLOSE COMBAT HOLY SHIT letting it get past Heatran and Tyranitar reliably.
Manectric isn't outclassed by raikou or jolteon because of its new lightning rod which boosts special attack when its hit with electric attacks , powerful fire attacks(flamethrower, Overheat) raikou or jolteon could never have and switcheroo to cripple potential counters. Thats why it should be OU. If manectric grabs a lightning rod boost and choice specs, it can sweep late-game. Even with weak defenses it can usually survive a neutral hit with around 30 percent left its underratted
I'm ignoring the next post that claims a Pokemon "should be OU", as it displays a blatant disregard for the way tiering even works.
This is not a non-OU list.
This is a list of Pokémon that aren't viable in OU. In 4th gen Porygon2 was NU, but it was viable in OU. If a Pokémon is taken off the list, that does not mean it is OU. It could be NU. But, the Pokémon on this list are ones that aren't worth using in OU. It could even be possible that an Pokémon that is used a lot could be ineffective in Standard.
This is a list of Pokémon that aren't viable in OU. In 4th gen Porygon2 was NU, but it was viable in OU. If a Pokémon is taken off the list, that does not mean it is OU. It could be NU. But, the Pokémon on this list are ones that aren't worth using in OU. It could even be possible that an Pokémon that is used a lot could be ineffective in Standard.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Is anyone doing an analysis for empoleon yet?? I'd like to reserve this if he hasn't been taken.
This is not the correct thread in which to make a reservation.
And Empoleon does already have a page.
Do your research before posting.
lmitchell0012
Wi-Fi Blacklisted
I am researching. That's why I asked before I created a thread...
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83009
Go here to check what you can write about, and to see what has or has not been reserved yet. Also use that thread to make your reservations.
I'm not sure what the big deal is with a pokemon not getting an analysis asap. Some of the ones who already have them are most likely going to reside in UU, and nothing here is going to take the meta by storm, to be honest. So right now, we should probably wait until UU is actually released so that these pokemon get a proper UU analyses, instead of an OU one now.
Just my 2 cents...
Just my 2 cents...
I'm requesting to write a Golbat analysis. It's quite awesome with Evo Stone and can IMHO find a teamspot countering the many fighters.. He can take +1 Robuushin Stone Edge, Haze the +1 off and roost off the damage. That's pretty awesome (even given most Robuushin carry Payback now...)
EDIT: I was informed I should bring a solid argument. So, solid argument coming up.
It's playstyle should be stall, in any kind, as its 80/65 attack stats just aren't going to get it anywhere near sweeping. In stall, Evostone is obligatory, as it's otherwise outclassed by Crobat, having a lower stat at every single stat. With evostone, Golbat reaches 75/105/112,5 base stats, giving it potential for both physical and special walling. It's special typing is unlucky (weaknesses to Electric, Ice and Psychic ruin its walling potential), so it mainly should be used as a physical wall. It works really well in this, walling pretty much all fighting types, and toxic-stalling the opponent without any problems.
Let me give some calcs to back me up, assuming a 252/252+ spread on golbat:
252att Adamant Breloom's Focus punch: 15,5%-18.3%
252att Adamant Roobushin's Stone edge: 58,4%- 68,9%.
252att Adamant Roobushin's Drain Punch: 9,9%-11,4%
252att Adamant Roobushin's Payback: 29,2%- 34,5%
This means he can switch in on Roobushin, and rooststall out ANY move. Since he's faster anyhow, Stone Edge will only hit super effectively once, and needs to crit on that hit, or on 2 consecutive hits or it won't kill it at all. This is all coming from a 140(!) base stat, with a 100 base power Neutral move in Payback, and a 100 base power super effective move in Stone Edge. Given these calcs, I don't think any of you doubt the physical wall power of Golbat, given that Robuushin is IIRC one of the highest attack base stat pokemon.. But then, let's take a powerful special attacker, with 252/4 in Hp/SpD from Golbat, with Defboosting nature.
252SpA Naive Salamence Draco Meteor: 62,7% - 74%.
252SpA Naive Salamence Outrage: 50,3% - 59,3%
Take a look at those numbers again.
If you have Golbat in, and a Salamence comes in, you can safely stay in and roost. That is pretty awesome. even if it dragon dances up, you can haze it, and survive the blow!
As you see at the Draco Meteor, this thing is a mammoth, even on the special side without SpD investment - something many other phyisical walls (I'm looking at you, Skarmory) can't boast.
Any of you need more argument?
EDIT: I was informed I should bring a solid argument. So, solid argument coming up.
It's playstyle should be stall, in any kind, as its 80/65 attack stats just aren't going to get it anywhere near sweeping. In stall, Evostone is obligatory, as it's otherwise outclassed by Crobat, having a lower stat at every single stat. With evostone, Golbat reaches 75/105/112,5 base stats, giving it potential for both physical and special walling. It's special typing is unlucky (weaknesses to Electric, Ice and Psychic ruin its walling potential), so it mainly should be used as a physical wall. It works really well in this, walling pretty much all fighting types, and toxic-stalling the opponent without any problems.
Let me give some calcs to back me up, assuming a 252/252+ spread on golbat:
252att Adamant Breloom's Focus punch: 15,5%-18.3%
252att Adamant Roobushin's Stone edge: 58,4%- 68,9%.
252att Adamant Roobushin's Drain Punch: 9,9%-11,4%
252att Adamant Roobushin's Payback: 29,2%- 34,5%
This means he can switch in on Roobushin, and rooststall out ANY move. Since he's faster anyhow, Stone Edge will only hit super effectively once, and needs to crit on that hit, or on 2 consecutive hits or it won't kill it at all. This is all coming from a 140(!) base stat, with a 100 base power Neutral move in Payback, and a 100 base power super effective move in Stone Edge. Given these calcs, I don't think any of you doubt the physical wall power of Golbat, given that Robuushin is IIRC one of the highest attack base stat pokemon.. But then, let's take a powerful special attacker, with 252/4 in Hp/SpD from Golbat, with Defboosting nature.
252SpA Naive Salamence Draco Meteor: 62,7% - 74%.
252SpA Naive Salamence Outrage: 50,3% - 59,3%
Take a look at those numbers again.
If you have Golbat in, and a Salamence comes in, you can safely stay in and roost. That is pretty awesome. even if it dragon dances up, you can haze it, and survive the blow!
As you see at the Draco Meteor, this thing is a mammoth, even on the special side without SpD investment - something many other phyisical walls (I'm looking at you, Skarmory) can't boast.
Any of you need more argument?
Golbat I'm not really sold on, but its access to Super Fang really helps its case, as it doesn't quite have the issue of "but it cant do damage =(" that other Evolution Stone prevos do. I very well might test it, but until then I'm not quite fully sold.
Anyway, Electrode has been added to the list. Borotorosu completely outclasses it with Priority Rain Dance/Taunt, actual attacking stats, and midgame usability. Also, with the massive Explosion nerf, it no longer has that one-punch knockout power that makes it effective.
Also adding Kurimugan. It's balls slow, not especially powerful, and its defenses are only "decent". Stat-wise, it's beaten by Ononokusu in every stat except Special Defense, and its movepool is only interesting in terms of Pursuit and Sucker Punch, which aren't that good anyway. Its only boosting move is Hone Claws, and Sheer Force only really helps with Fire Fang, which isn't all THAT useful with only 120 base Attack.
Anyway, Electrode has been added to the list. Borotorosu completely outclasses it with Priority Rain Dance/Taunt, actual attacking stats, and midgame usability. Also, with the massive Explosion nerf, it no longer has that one-punch knockout power that makes it effective.
Also adding Kurimugan. It's balls slow, not especially powerful, and its defenses are only "decent". Stat-wise, it's beaten by Ononokusu in every stat except Special Defense, and its movepool is only interesting in terms of Pursuit and Sucker Punch, which aren't that good anyway. Its only boosting move is Hone Claws, and Sheer Force only really helps with Fire Fang, which isn't all THAT useful with only 120 base Attack.
If you insist of doing damage rather than toxic-stalling, I'd advise a set of Super Fang/Roost/Toxic, and in the last moveslot.. That's up to preference.. U-turn to scout and damage psychic switch-ins, Confuse Ray to annoy, Brave Bird to do even more damage, Haze if you need something to take out setup sweepers, Whirlwind, because halving everyones HP is epic... I suggest U-turn or Haze, whichever you need on the team.