Black & White Battle Subway Records

At first, what might these red flags be you are talking about?

A week ago I started breeding for a new Battle Subway team as I was eager to try the moody bidoof (bibarel) I got from the DW on the sub. Whimsicott was an obvious choice for me because of Prankster. This was the first time I was going to try my luck in any Battle building ever since I was too lazy to breed a proper team on Gen IV (getting flawless pokemon is so much easier nowadays because of RNG). So I googled if Smogon had any advice to give me. I found out this thread and Jumpmans Gen IV record made me whoa so I decided to take his Drapion (with the exact same EV spread and the moveset since with my experience I couldn't possibly think any better) as my last team member.

The first time I tried the team I won the Subway Boss but almost right after that I encountered a Veteran with all those legendary pokemon. I managed to setup Drapion very easily and Crunched my way through 2 of the Veterans pokemon. The last one however was a Cobalion. I started with Crunch, Cobalion didn't do anything serious so I Crunched again. Cobalion used Sacred Sword and my sub broke. I wasn't actually aware of the fact that SSword ignores the evasion boosts as well as the defense boosts so that Cobalion with +2 on Attack ended up beating the rest of my team as well. During my 185 win run I only encountered one Cobalion, and it had Focus Blast instead of SSword so I had no problem with that (though I would have known how to handle the SSword one this time if it had appeared).

Zacchaeus said:

I've done very extensive testing of Acupressure Drapion and it's terrible this time around. And since your Drapion can't deal with Whirlwind, Roar, Taunt, or other moves like Encore to a lesser extent, it seems really unlikely. Moody was also bad in my experience but that one is easier to get lucky with. And you can't even deny that both Moody and Acupressure require tons of luck, and when you try to play upwards of 100 rounds with both of those, you're definitely more likely to fail than succeed. And you just copied the same EV spread, everything in that team looks like a red flag to me

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Well since most of the time I setup against a crippled starter, and the AI like never changes (except U-turn, Volt Switch) being able to Acupressure 21 times (or stalling with Protect,Sub with Bibarel) requires almost no luck at all. And if I can't cripple the starter more than just Stun Spore him, Bibarel can still stall very well. All you have to do is wait for the fp or the Evasion or Defense/Sp.Defense boost and you are able to keep stalling behind a sub (then you can even hit him with Waterfall for a possible flinch if you like). Most of the time I even try to keep Whimsicott alive so that if something unexpected happens I can make the other setupper a chance to do his job (with Memento).

And Roar, Whirlwind etc. don't like the +6 Evasion. I faced like 3-4 pokemons who actually got to use their Roar, Whirlwind against me and they all missed (I don't know if AI uses Roar/Whirlwind in a situation where I have only 1 pkmn left, but I don't at least remember seeing that). A few more used Dragon Tail, but since it won't work through a sub there was nothing to worry.

I found it very easy to setup my Dynamic Duo, since I had two options for every situation. If you say Dorapion is terrible this time around and have done some testing, maybe you're just doing it wrong? ;)

185 is pretty lucky run, but I do believe your streak. Drapion IS a really good pokemon to use still.

I mentioned earlier (I'm sure Jumpman or someone else probably mentioned before me) that if opponent does not have any moves that raise attack or special attack, then Drapion can set up on nearly (with exceptions, of course, that's why I say nearly) any pokemon that does not have STAB EQ. E.g. Jolly -2 Salamence unSTAB EQ does max 37.3% to 252/4 Careful Drapion, which means, after factoring in Leftovers, it doesn't even 3HKO (so Drapion can rest stall Salamence out of EQ PP).

Things like Mold Breaker Haxorus or Head Smash Archeops/Rampardos (or any recoil move hard hitter) or stat-boosters do require quite a bit of luck though for a 185 streak run.

I guess I'm calling it luck that Stun Spore hit when it was needed to ... since really, after Stun Spore slowing opponent down, Moody pokemon is basically almost guaranteed like ... 12-ish boosts I think between protect and sub (I haven't used it yet and I didn't bother calculating)? Chances are fairly high that the correct defense boost or evasion boost will occur then (and if not, then that means the offensive boosts happened, in which case, attempting a sweep is fine). And then there's the high chance that full paralysis happens sometimes, which makes things even easier.

I'm not sure how useful Taunt replacing Leech Seed would be though. At first I was thinking Leech Seed is pretty useless if you are trying to boost with Bibarel or Drapion, but after a bit more thought, Leech Seed lets Bibarel set up even easier as it can sub more times. You can give worry seed (or encore) a try if you don't mind breeding.

That said, you are pretty lucky that the 3 - 4 pokemon who used Roar/Whirlwind all missed. +6 Evasion equates to 33% chance of hitting. That's higher than a OHKO move, and people (including me) have faced Sheer Colds hitting 4 times in a row, and here you have Roar/Whirlwind missing all 3 to 4 times.

Anyway, I'll go back to minding my own business... nothing new from me lately.

I can't even carry out this discussion because you are practically the luckiest person I've seen in Battle Subway since the release of BW. Everything that went wrong with any of my teams similar to that one you just ignored or it didn't even occur to your team even though your streak went on almost twice as much as my best one. Get a streak as high as that again and then I'll be impressed, until then you're just lucky

Nevermind that: Hax strikes again, I can't remember the last time I lost without hax

Chinese Dood said:

Things like Mold Breaker Haxorus or Head Smash Archeops/Rampardos (or any recoil move hard hitter) or stat-boosters do require quite a bit of luck though for a 185 streak run.

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I surely met some Haxorus and Rampardos but iirc they were all after I had done my setup, so they didn't cause any problems. Archeops was in the starting role like 3 times or so. And if I remember correctly one of them used AA instead of Head Smash so it didnt cause any trouble. With the remaining ones I used Charm once or twice and then switched to Bibarel and tried to get some boosts. Saving Whimsicott seemed also important so I could cripple the next pokemon my opponent has to offer to get Drapion going (if Bibarel wouldn't get really lucky) since Archeops was going down way ahead of schedule.

Chinese Dood said:

I'm not sure how useful Taunt replacing Leech Seed would be though. At first I was thinking Leech Seed is pretty useless if you are trying to boost with Bibarel or Drapion, but after a bit more thought, Leech Seed lets Bibarel set up even easier as it can sub more times. You can give worry seed (or encore) a try if you don't mind breeding.

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I actually bred mine with Encore & Memento (and have 2 more of those "in stock"). But when I thought more about the Encore, I don't really know why I would use it. If you can give me some example why I should maybe I'll give it a try (I'd have to EV-train another Whimsicott though and that is lame :D). Haven't really thought Worry Seed, but it might be neat. That being said Leech Seed is great too. If you seed a pokemon that has Rest/Roost or something like that you can actually create a situation where you can keep them using only their recovery move while using waterfall/return so you can get even more boosts if you are low on protect/sub or just don't wanna waste them.

Chinese Dood said:

That said, you are pretty lucky that the 3 - 4 pokemon who used Roar/Whirlwind all missed. +6 Evasion equates to 33% chance of hitting. That's higher than a OHKO move, and people (including me) have faced Sheer Colds hitting 4 times in a row, and here you have Roar/Whirlwind missing all 3 to 4 times.

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Yup. But I think only one of those misses was in a situation where I didn't have Whimsicott on my side any longer. And the hit that I dealt before the Roar/WW left the phazer always nearly dead. So I think the odds were I would have survived even if some of those Roar/WW would have hit. :)

The only Roar/WW pokemon you'd really actually have to worry about are ones that also stat boost anyway... I think there's a roar Nasty Plot Ninetales and a WW/Roar Swords Dance Skarmory, and then everything else .... the worse you can do is have Whimsicott and one of your sweepers faint first and then can probably fully set up. Actually I think the Nasty Plot Ninetales you might just be able to alternate between protect and sub as it tries to confuse ray you for a while...

EDIT: Yeah, you're probably right about Encore... It ends way too quickly, and your team isn't really based on resistances anyway (not like the traditional Dragon + Steel + Tricker kind of way, I mean). So its usefulness is not that great. I used Encore before ALONG with a trick scarfer (something similar to fluffyflyingpig's team here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3398891&postcount=9 but with Jumpluff instead since mine was in 4th Gen). That's a different story though. Worry seed... just good for Clearbody/Hypercutter pokemon mostly... though if you have the time, nullifying Mold Breaker or Pure Power and things like that are great too.

T.L. said:

I actually bred mine with Encore & Memento (and have 2 more of those "in stock"). But when I thought more about the Encore, I don't really know why I would use it. If you can give me some example why I should maybe I'll give it a try (I'd have to EV-train another Whimsicott though and that is lame :D). Haven't really thought Worry Seed, but it might be neat. That being said Leech Seed is great too. If you seed a pokemon that has Rest/Roost or something like that you can actually create a situation where you can keep them using only their recovery move while using waterfall/return so you can get even more boosts if you are low on protect/sub or just don't wanna waste them.

Click to expand...

I think the AI is also more likely to switch if you encore them in to a non-attacking move. Obviously you have control over this, but still, an unexpected AI switch would really mess up your team.

Nope, it won't. That's the "good" thing about Encore. It's not the same as Trick. If you Encore a non-attacking move (or attacking), they don't switch. So vs a Curse-user, Whimsicott could encore Curse and them Charm until all Curse PP are gone and then get to -6 Attack... That said, Whimsicott can get opponent down to -6 anyway probably even without encore.

You can't just say "they don't switch" because the 5th generation AI have the ability to and will sometimes switch even when it seems unlikely that they will

Edit: I've tried researching it but the AI is so haphazard when it comes to things like switching that I couldn't find anything conclusive. Also the AI intelligence boost during Subway probably effects how often they will switch out

Ok sorry. From what I tried and played, they do not switch from any moves that are encored. I've tried using Encore Whimsicott before in Battle Subway, and they so far never switched even when encored into using things like Twave even when Whimsicott has already been paralyzed. It's quite possible that they sometimes do switch.

O yeah, I also noticed that they don't switch anymore even when they have natural cure and are paralyzed (they did back in Gen IV).

I plan on using a gimicky (But fun) Snorlax Set,For singles:

Snorlax@Leftys/Chesto Berry (haven't decided yet)
Substitute
Focus Punch
Rest
Body Slam
252 Attack 252 Sp. Def 4 Def
Adamant Nature

Any ideas for partners?

Edit:
Just had a lightbulb appear above my head.
I could use a Trick Room Reiniclus.It would sponge Fighting moves, make Snorlax not so slow and kill Ghost Types

If you seriously want to run that Snorlax, you definitely should use a Ghost or Dark type partner. A Ghost partner couldn't switch in easily against a Ghost but it would be immune to Fighting, a Dark partner could switch in on a Ghost but that would give your team 2 Fighting weaknesses which is really bad in Subway. That set should also probably use 252 HP

Edit: If you're using Trick Room, you should use Return on Snorlax instead of Body Slam

Thanks for the advice about Return.
Team is going to look like (I think)

Reiniclus @ Leftys
Trick Room
Psychic
Calm Mind
Pain Split
+Sp Att -Speed
252 Def 252 Sp Att 4 Sp Def


Snorlax @ Chesto Berry
Rest
Substitute
Focus Punch
Return

Adamant Nature (Should be Brave,But already Ev'd an Adamant one)
252 Att 252 Sp Def 4 Def


Gigalith @ Life Orb
Stealth Rock
Explosion
EQ
Rock Slide/Stone Edge

Brave
252 Att 252 Def 4 HP

Gigalith is replaceable if a better Pokemon comes up.

Well Gigalith's Sturdy is negated by Life Orb (for the sake of protecting you from fainting in one hit) and Stealth Rock isn't that useful in Battle Subway, especially if it's not being used by your lead. Keep in mind that Reuniclus learns Recover for more consistent healing. Here are some other ideas for Trick Room Pokémon: Shuckle, Escavalier, Ferrothorn, Steelix, Slowking, Magcargo, Carracosta, Bronzong, Camerupt, Vespiquen, Rhyperior, Golem, Marowak, Conkeldurr, Druddigon, and Aggron, all of which have 50 base Speed or lower (Aggron being the fastest, Shuckle being the slowest)

Oh and by the way, my last 3 losses in Subway:
3. Draco Meteor miss followed by Dragon Rush hit
2. Critical hit
1. Critical hit

I haven't actually been playing the Subway as much as I'd like to, but I've been thinking up ideas for teams on and off throughout the day.

I really want to find a way to use Sheer Force LO Nidoking with Blizzard on a Hail team, just because it hits monstrously hard. The problem is that even 252 Timid he isn't fast enough for comfort, so I need support to slow down the opposing threats.

Alternatively I can go with a Quiet nature on a TR team. This would improve Nidokings SpA as well as aid me in "outspeeding" things, though Quite 0 IV Nidoking still has 157 speed.

You can try going with Modest and have Abomasnow Icy Wind for Nidoking while it protects maybe (snow will need sash and that's still not secure though)...

Otherwise, you can have Nidoking + a tailwind Lead, Protect + Tailwind first turn, Lead switch to Abomasnow + Nidoking Blizzard or whatever 2nd turn... but heh... that's getting complicated and requires a bit more support even.

Another thing you can try is... instead of Blizzard, try Sludge Wave, which has perfect accuracy and STAB (so it's 142 base power, which is even better than Blizzard's), but the catch is that it hits everyone in the field, so best to pair it with a Steel type for immunity. Skarmory can Tailwind and has sturdy (so no sash needed, so can use lum probably)...

I thought about using the Sludgewave one before, but ... never got around to trying it and... sounds a bit iffy too.

EDIT: Obviously Sludge wave doesn't have as good coverage with steel immunity too... I suppose that's why it's most likely carrying earthpower and flamethrower....

Chinese Dood said:

You can try going with Modest and have Abomasnow Icy Wind for Nidoking while it protects maybe (snow will need sash and that's still not secure though)...

Otherwise, you can have Nidoking + a tailwind Lead, Protect + Tailwind first turn, Lead switch to Abomasnow + Nidoking Blizzard or whatever 2nd turn... but heh... that's getting complicated and requires a bit more support even.

Another thing you can try is... instead of Blizzard, try Sludge Wave, which has perfect accuracy and STAB (so it's 142 base power, which is even better than Blizzard's), but the catch is that it hits everyone in the field, so best to pair it with a Steel type for immunity. Skarmory can Tailwind and has sturdy (so no sash needed, so can use lum probably)...

I thought about using the Sludgewave one before, but ... never got around to trying it and... sounds a bit iffy too.

EDIT: Obviously Sludge wave doesn't have as good coverage with steel immunity too... I suppose that's why it's most likely carrying earthpower and flamethrower....

Click to expand...

I really like Blizzard for the coverage (and the uberchomps that have ended like 11 out of my 15 or so attempted Doubles runs..)

I like the Sludgewave idea as well. It's a real shame that nothing with Prankster is immune to Poison. Prankster + Tailwind would be amazing with the Sludgewave idea. I suppose I could suicide a Prankster Whimsicott with the intentions of filling its slot with something immune to poison that can also abuse the hell out of the extra speed. Maybe a Metagross or a Heat Wave + Fire Jewel Heatran. Gardevoir gets Telepathy via DW, but isn't released yet sadly. I'm not sure if Poison Heal also grants immunity to Poison moves or not, but Breloom/Gliscor would be solid offensive TW abusers.

This team would definitely be extremely hyper offense, and would really want to sweep most (if not all) of the opponents Pokemon before Tailwind runs out.

What happens with Tailwind in Trick Room? I'm assuming it practically guarantees I would go last, so my 3rd/4th slot would have to be something incredibly reliable against the most common Subway TR abusers/users.

Not sure how far I would get with a team like this, but it at least sounds fun to potentially use some things that are less common.

Should I follow the EV training method for the Level 50 or Level 100 Pokemon?

Level 100, preferably.

Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Double Battle notable streaks:
- team version 1: 132, 183, 63, 90
- team version 2: 232, 202, 390, 34, 46, 184



Nickname: LEE
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Limber
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / x / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 252 / 0 / 0 / 0 / 252
Lv.50: 126 / 189 / 73 / 43 / 130 / 139
Moves:
~ Fake Out
~ Mach Punch
~ Sucker Punch
~ Close Combat

Awesome and supercool Pokémon. Works as well as in the last generation.


Nickname: DRAGON
Item: Choice Specs*
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 252
Lv.50: 156 / 99 / 100 / 273* / 130 / 178
Moves:
~ Psyshock
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Thunderbolt
~ Grass Knot

After ~950 subway battles with the team, the 3 moves beside Dragon Pulse seem like filler to me heh and are situational. I only open with Psyschock when I really need to KO a Heracross or another important KO turn1 if it outdamages d-pulse because of hitting the defense stat. I Thunderbolt rarely, the last time I remember was against a Fisherman´s lead Gyarados. Grass Knot is an option against a Hiker, Fisherman or Ice Worker (lead mamo) or to finish off stuff when I´m switching.


Nickname: ROBIN
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31 / 0 / 31 / 31 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 6 / 0 / 0 / 252 / 0 / 252
Lv.50: 168 / 99 / 110 / 177 / 110 / 165
Moves:
~ Dark Pulse
~ Dragon Pulse
~ Flamethrower
~ Protect

Solid and very useful thanks to Dark Pulse and Flamethrower. Fire move is a must have in the double subway with this kind of team. If only it had more speed...that´s the main issue with hydra. Protect+partner attacks first is very helpful and it saved my butt many times (also to stall Trick Room a bit).


Nickname: DOOMSDAY
Item: Occa Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
IVs: 31 / 31 / 31 / 21 / 31 / 31
EV spread: 84 / 252 / 4 / 0 / 6 / 164
Lv.50: 166 / 205 / 151 / 99 / 111 / 111
Moves:
~ Iron Head
~ Earthquake
~ Rock Slide
~ Bullet Punch

Metagross is a solid backup and survives a lot. Damage boosting item would help quite a bit, but occa lets me hit the fire types for SE damage at least once instead of fainting and doing zero damage. I think occa>baloon because quake will hopefully always hit for 75% damage and meta survives those, but not single target fire moves.


The team is similar to my 626 streak one (soulsilver) and I wanted to try hydreigon instead of zapdos. I´m aware of the fact that this is similar to fluffy´s 510 streak team (he uses ape and I use lee) which makes me try even harder to beat that record. For now, it seems he made the better pick with ape as it´s faster and having a fire move on a lead is very useful (bug steels are a pain for me), on the other hand he doesn´t have the (I feel) much needed close combat power (189 vs 156 attack means lee hits for 21% more damage) and also has no priority except for bullet punch...sucker punch and mach punch help me with the speed issue...anyway, ape is still great and I know what I´m talking about, I´ve used it in my diamond 242 multi record with mach punch (fluffy uses u-turn) along latias...


Notable streaks with the team (important note that the first 4 streaks listed below were achieved with a modest hydra nicknamed TEACH, that was team version 1):

132 streak: lost battle #133 to a legendary team – some crazy cobalion metal burst + quick attack, suicune, moltres + something, I remember misplaying badly

183 streak: lost battle #184 to volcarona / cursehippo / salamence / weavile – I misplayed and used psyschock + CC on the bold HP/def volcarona with quiver dance instead of FO + dpulse, which would let me finish it off turn 2 with another pulse and attack hippo...weavile pissed me off and in the end it was latios+meta vs hippo and latios used energy ball for a pitiful 40% dmg or so and got crunched into oblivion...anyway metagross still had a shot...I hoped for a CH iron head as it flinched hippo twice in the turn it woke up so hippo had to rest next turn...hit him with at least 12 iron heads but no such luck

this battle was part of the reason I switched to grass knot on latios

63 streak: lost battle #64 vs hail team – beartic, froslass, vanilluxe, glaceon – missed CC on bear turn1 after lass summoned a hailstorm, later blizzard froze meta and last turn I missed thrower on glaceon... three snow cloak pokémon is too much to handle

90 streak: lost battle #91 vs veteran jeune (legendaries) – zapdos + articuno, focus fired zap because of bad experience with the DT/roost/heat wave one that I couldn´t hit last time...zapdos KO but of course it´s the articuno with an ice gem boosted blizzard that KOs latios and freezes lee ... ... ... I sent out meta, oponent suicune ... arti bliz, lee KO, meta slide, cune blizzard froze meta ... ... ... hydreigon in, went for protect+bullet punch (arti was at 10%) but didn´t thaw out, later beat articuno with hydreigon and even the incoming raikou (protect/bolt) but cune´s (at 60% HP) last bliz PP hit, gg

switching to timid hydreigon (I trained both) to get a jump on a pack of 57 subway pokémon between 150 and 164 speed, speed tie with another 4 pokémon...the back row feels a bit slow and things like losing the speed tie to heracross and getting a megahorn in the face is worse than oh I did 55% dmg and not 60% dmg to random pokémon with move...maybe I´ll go even with DM over d-pulse as a finishing move hmm

important notes: I´m not using the moveset list and I only listed the longer streaks with the team, I lost two earlier ones in the #22-28 area.

first streak with timid hydra:

battle #164 a 2-3 situation with hydra+meta vs red health durant4 (protect/scissor, jolly HP/speed) and miltank (jolly atk/speed quake slide zenbutt)...I protected and quaked to get rid of durant which has a 75% chance to OHKO hydra because of swarm/hustle but durant protected itself as well plus meta got flinched by milky slide... a really tough situation and for the first time since using this team I went to the PC to check the movesets

I had to use a ruler of all things...durant was at like 4 pixels of HP...around 1,1 mm (actual HP) / 11,5 mm (HP bar), dmg calc says metagross´ bullet punch does 18-21 dmg / 165 HP, which is 10,9-12,7%, so it´ll be close...hopefully the HP bar doesn´t lie...BP KOs durant and hydra gets a dpulse through slide and brings milky into red HP, meta finishes off next turn as the focus punching blasty was no threat

232 streak: lost battle #233 to gentleman kavan (a legendary team): suicune-heatran-cobalion-articuno
1. latios grass knot 90% to cune, cune icy wind, CH on latios, lee close combat, cune KO, heatran overheat, lee fainted, white herb
foe articuno, me meta
2. heatran protect, latios grass knot (lol) protected, meta quake protected, articnuo blizzard CH on meta, latios fainted
me hydra
3. hydra protect, meta quake, heatran fainted, arti blizzard
foe cobalion
4. coba close combat, meta fainted, life orb dmg, hydra thrower, coba fainted, arti blizard, hydra fainted
0-1

only someone as stupid as me locks himself into grass knot against a legendary team lol...no idea what I was thinking before R1...I was probably scared of blizzard which is the worst attack in the double metagame (it hits, freezes and often CHs me)...obviously fake out turn 1 would´ve been the wiser choice...heatran could be scarfed and there´s a mirror coat cune, but of course letting cune CM isn´t the brightest idea as well....it wasn´t the easiest situation for me...using close combat on heatran would´ve been wiser in hindsight...anyway, legendary teams are the worst because you don´t know the sets, as for threat level they´re tied with ice only teams...

202 streak: lost battle #203 to a battle girl: durant+scrafty lead, which is bad for me and durant outplayed me as it acted weirdly, I double targeted it with FO+DP as always because it´s a nuisance but it protected, scrafty used payback and latios lived with like 10 HP, next turn durant used iron head on lee but lee one hit scrafty and dpulse did a lot of dmg to durant, foe sent out bronzong...I don´t know how the next round went but I lost both of mine and durant fainted??? anyway it came down to 2-2 when I misplayed the meta+hydra vs zone-zong situation and didn´t double target zone to make sure it faints, it survived the quake thanks to sturdy and electric gem one-hit meta to my surprise (dmg calc says it needs rand 98-100 to OHKO which means 3/16 chance or 18,75% damn that sucks - otherwise I would´ve definitely won), zong was levitating and survived the thrower with like 30% and used trick room ... ... ... slide + flash cannon brought hydra to 12 HP which meant it fainted from life orb damage after beating zone...

oh well I should´ve lost this streak at around 180 anyway in a TR situation of hydra+meta vs rhyperior+ttar ... I mean last turn of TR it was my 100% meta vs 40% rhyperior and I was forced to hope for a BP CH but rhyperior used rock slide instead of quake (?)...

been playing this team for 8 days now, I´ll give it one or two more shots and will start to use the moveset list when I´m at 150+ as it´s painful to start all over again (232 is roughly 8 hours and 15 minutes at average 15 min / set of 7)


EDIT (july 18th, 2011): new record (390)

I lost to rock polish regirock of all things fuuuuuuuu...

#391 vs socialite aparna:

lee + lati vs regirock + articuno

1. fake out arti, dragon pulse arti CH, arti fainted, regi rock polish
-foe virizion in

2. lee mach punch virizion about 30% dmg (thought they would double target lee), regi rock slide, lee at 92/126 HP, lati at 107/156 HP, latios flinched (#1), viri stone edge lati to 44/156 HP

3. lee mach punch viri to 33%, regi rock slide, latios fainted, viri stone edge, lee fainted
- me hydra + meta

4. hydra protect, regi rock slide, meta avoided, viri sacred sword, hydra protected, meta quake viri to 10%, rock at 60%

5. viri protect, meta bullet, viri protected, regi rock slide, hydra at 120/168 HP, hydra flinched (#2)

6. hydra protect, meta bullet, viri fainted, regi superpower, hydra protected
- foe heatran in (of course... ... ...)

7. regi superpower, hydra fainted, meta quake, regi at 3%, sitrus to 28%, heatran at 5%, heatran earth power, meta at 12 HP

8. regi superpower, meta fainted

0-2

I think I should have risked a second protect turn 7 with hydra, but those two slide flinches when I was attacking rock with dragon pulse were decisive...maybe my lee play was too careful with the very (for me) unusual mach punching there, I seriously thought rock would superpower lee, I don´t think I´ve faced this rock (I may have but KOed before it could do anything) and even ttar superpowers lee...lol and viri protect owning me there turn 5 (didn´t check its set and probably should´ve just bullet punched it to death right away as it does 51-61 dmg which means 30,7-36,7% dmg...ugh

another day, another try

#28 crazy battle vs veteran jeune
lee + lati vs virizion, cobalion
1. latio psyshock viri 5% left, coba CC, lee sash, LO dmg, lee CC, coba fainted, viri SD
foe cune
2. lee mach punch, viri fainted, lati pshock 35%dmg to cune, cune blizzard, lati avoided, lee fainted
me meta, foe thund
3. cune protect, thund dark pulse lati to 72/156, lati flinched, meta rock slide, 75% to thund, cune lefties
4. thund dark pulse, lati fainted, meta rock slide, thund KO, cune at 65%, cune bliz, meta at 142/166 HP, meta was frozen solid
me hydra
5. hydra protect, cune protect, meta frozen solid, lefties
6. hydra dark pulse cune to 40%, meta frozen solid, cune blizzard, CH on hydra, hydra fainted, meta at 125/168, cune lefties
7. meta frozen solid, cune CM, lefties to 45%
8. cune protect, meta thawed out, iron head, protected, 50%
9. cune protect, meta quake, cune protected, lefties to 56%
10. meta quake to 35%, cune blizzard, meta at 87/168, meta was frozen solid
11. cune protect, meta frozen solid, lefties
12. cune protect failed, meta thawed out, quake to 30%, lefties
13. cune protect, meta iron head, protected, lefties
14. meta iron head, cune blizzard, meta avoided, lefties
15. cune protect, meta iron head, lefties
16. meta iron head cune to 20%, cune flinched
17. meta iron head cune to to 10%, cune flinched
18. meta quake, cune KO
1-0

seriously... why didn´t cune just surf metagross is beyond my understanding of the AI, maybe the AI´s just that sadistic to freeze me twice instead of KOing me right away...right after that in the next set

#35 vs ice team
foe aboma+bear
1. dragon pulse aboma, close combat bear, avoided, double blizzard double KO
me hydra+meta
2. hydra protect, meta rock slide, double miss
3. meta bullet, aboma KO, hydra thrower, bear KO
foe vanilla+glaceon
4. double target vanilla, KO, glace bliz, hydra KO
5. meta iron head, glaceon avoided
6. iron head 80%, bliz KO
0-1

snow cloak and blizzard is by far the worst shit there is in the subway, there´s no way winning against worker valéry or roman if you keep missing lass/bear/mamo/glace, I had such a crazy battle saved (it was #351) with a showdown between hydra and mamo but then I erased it with #391 before writing down what happened

next streak...

#47 vs depot agent...beat two electrics but then „r-ant“ OHKOed meta with a CH power herb dig (which made me lol) and later jolt yawned hydra the turn it OHKOed ant, didn´t wake up and jolt won with thunder...

...then I got chopped in half

#185 vs member of the best subway trainer duo, Biker Philipo:

lee + latias vs dragonite + haxorus

1. lee fake out haxo, lati dragon pulse OHKO nite, haxo flinched
- foe´s garchomp in
2. garchomp used outrage, latios fainted, haxorus used chop, chop, lee fainted (first time ever sash was useless)
- me hydra + meta in
3. hydra protect, chomp outrage on hydra, protected, haxo dual chop on hydra, protected, meta iron head 60% to chomp, chomp confused
4. chomp outrage through confusion, hydra fainted, haxo dual chop on meta 135/166, meta iron head, chomp fainted
- foe´s gyarados in, gg
5. haxo quaked meta 51/166, gyara used waterfall, metagross fainted
0-2

you know the subway has decided to end your streak when you miss 3 hits in a row against incense walrein from ganymed (thankfully, it only hit 1/3 vs sashlee), but you somehow still pull of a win, thinking, well, I need to win the next 5 battles to complete this set of 7 somehow and then make a break...the next battle was the above #185

to be continued...

skitz0phrenic said:

I really like Blizzard for the coverage (and the uberchomps that have ended like 11 out of my 15 or so attempted Doubles runs..)

I like the Sludgewave idea as well. It's a real shame that nothing with Prankster is immune to Poison. Prankster + Tailwind would be amazing with the Sludgewave idea. I suppose I could suicide a Prankster Whimsicott with the intentions of filling its slot with something immune to poison that can also abuse the hell out of the extra speed. Maybe a Metagross or a Heat Wave + Fire Jewel Heatran. Gardevoir gets Telepathy via DW, but isn't released yet sadly. I'm not sure if Poison Heal also grants immunity to Poison moves or not, but Breloom/Gliscor would be solid offensive TW abusers.

This team would definitely be extremely hyper offense, and would really want to sweep most (if not all) of the opponents Pokemon before Tailwind runs out.

What happens with Tailwind in Trick Room? I'm assuming it practically guarantees I would go last, so my 3rd/4th slot would have to be something incredibly reliable against the most common Subway TR abusers/users.

Not sure how far I would get with a team like this, but it at least sounds fun to potentially use some things that are less common.

Click to expand...

Hm, if you want to try going the suicide prankster Tailwind route... You can maybe give something like this a try (I dunno... sounds fun to try):
Nidoking + Whimsicott + Magnezone + Abomasnow.

Nido + Whimsicott : Protect + Tailwind first turn.
-> If Whimsicott is dead after this turn, then switch in either Zone or Snow depending on opponent of course. Otherwise, depending on opponent, either Helping Hand + Sludge wave to KO both opponents, or Sludgewave and switch in Zone, or Blizzard and switch in Snow.

If it's Nido + Zone: Sludgewave + Discharge for double attacking goodness, and both will be fairly fast due to Tailwind.

If it's Nido + Snow: Double Blizzard, or whatever that will KO opponents.

... seems like it will have problems with blissey though with all special attackers (of course Zone was just for Discharge though, can always use another steel like Metagross) ... also need to beware of Trick Room. Nido TBolt can KO Slowbro most likely, but there are all those new slow bulky psychics and some ghosts (which of course resist poison). Helping Hand + Earth Power might do the job. Heh, I dunno. You can have fun with that.

Poison Heal does not give poison immunity.

Welcome back Peterko and gratz on your streak and dedication to your teams! :P

EDIT: O yah, yesterday I lost again in Single Subway with a streak of something like 74 with this team:
Latios / Levitate / Timid @ Choice Specs: Psychic / Thunderbolt / Dragon Pulse / Grass Knot
Scizor / Technician / Adamant @ Choice Band: Bullet Punch / Aerial Ace / Superpower / U-Turn
Porygon2 / Trace / Bold @ Eviolite: Toxic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / Recover

Mainly lost because of a crit Flareon Return that OHKO'd Latios which left me in a bad situation vs a Fire/Fighting pokemon (forgot what it was) that came out next. Whatever, 74 isn't that amazing. I dunno why I still have Psychic instead of Psyshock... heh. O well.

Ataro said:

Should I follow the EV training method for the Level 50 or Level 100 Pokemon?

Click to expand...

You always EV for level 50. This means 8 EVs = 1 stat point after the first 4 EVs in a stat. This also means that for something that normally runs 252 HP and 252 in Atk, Spe, or SpA, you instead use 244 HP, 4 Def, 4 SpD (as seen below)

Former record: 59
New record: 86

2Drag1Mag is:


Dragonite (M) - Choice Band
Adamant - Multiscale
244 HP 252 Atk 4 Def 4 SpD 4 Spe
31-31-31-X-31-31
Outrage
Earthquake
Extremespeed
Fire Punch

Definitely the MVP, the amount of damage Dragonite can inflict is intense, and he can also take a good amount of hits, especially with Multiscale. In pursuing my record, I used Extremespeed once but I can't come up with anything that would be more useful in general. The only things that took him down consistently were Jynx and Latias.


Latios (M) - Choice Specs
Timid - Levitate
252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP
31-X-31-31-31-31
Draco Meteor
Psychic
Surf
Thunderbolt

Good in the late game, but he often comes up short if I'm forced to use him early on. He outspeeds a ton, which makes him a great partner for Dragonite, and his defensive typing served surprisingly well for things like taking Fighting attacks for Magnezone.


Magnezone (N) - Leftovers
Timid - Magnet Pull
252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP
31-6-31-30-31-30
Substitute
Thunderbolt
Flash Cannon
Hidden Power (Fire 70)

Magnezone surprised me in its ability to take out things that threaten Dragonite and Latios other than Steel types, namely Rock and Ice types. I feel like I'm missing something when I use it, but it works rather effectively at what its meant to accomplish. In hindsight, it might not actually be benefitting so much from Magnet Pull, so I'll pay close attention to that aspect and I might try using a Sturdy Magnezone instead, feedback would help.


And the unfortunate match that ended my streak, number 87. (Which happens to be my lucky number T.T) Fast forward, Dragonite has taken out the first 2 Pokémon and he has low health, Cresselia comes in, Dragonite hurts itself and faints, Cresselia uses Calm Mind and keeps boosting and outstalls Latios and Magnezone with Rest. I almost beat it with a critical hit but it was still at about 15% so it had enough time to use Rest again. I ended up attacking it about 35 times but sadly I didn't get that second timely critical hit

(All sprites from http://pokemonelite2000.com/sprites.html)

I don't know if this has been answered before and sorry if it has but do all the subway Pokemon have 252 Spe EV's and 252 into something else or 252 into everything? They all seem to be able to take hits very well and also dish it out much harder than what I'm able to achieve.

Wue said:

I don't know if this has been answered before and sorry if it has but do all the subway Pokemon have 252 Spe EV's and 252 into something else or 252 into everything? They all seem to be able to take hits very well and also dish it out much harder than what I'm able to achieve.

Click to expand...

They either have 255-255 or 170-170-170

@Zacchaeus: Good job on your streak! Not really sure how to help with your team other than potentially trying SD Scizor or Curse Ferrothorn for handling Cresselia, but Scizor's not nearly as bulky as Zone, and Ferro doesn't resist ice, which would be a huge problem unless you use replace one of your dragons with something else that resists ice (like Specs Starmie? That's a lot less power though).

FYI though, CB Dragonite Extremespeed OHKOs all the Jynxes that have ice moves. The only one it doesn't OHKO is the one with Captivate/Mean Look/Lovely Kiss/Attract (lol I don't get why subway has funny movesets like that that can't kill anything).

EDIT: Hm... I dunno about that. I have around 1500 BP right now. You probably have more, but I dunno if it's 1000 BP more :P.

Oh shit. Haha wow I'm usually pretty good when it comes to figuring out damage outputs in my head but I really didn't even consider Extremespeed for Jynx, who knows why, thanks though :P And I forgot that Dragonite also loses to Archeops consistently. And just did the damage calculation: Extremespeed does 43% max so that's still not enough to activate Defeatist. And I don't want to risk Magnezone taking an Earthquake

And I absolutely can't stand those "can't kill anything" movesets because they are always absurdly annoying, (except for the Blissey that does nothing but spam Aromatherapy and heal you XD,) the worst is Double Team Meganium. I've literally had to spend like 40 turns taking that Meganium out and it has no damaging attacks, directly or indirectly -.- Here it is: 387 | Meganium | Bold | Chesto Berry | GrassWhistle | Double Team | Substitute | Rest | HP/Def

Also, I just figured out that at the time of posting my record, I had at least 1000 more BP than anybody except Peterko for Super Singles T.T (I had 2018 when I made my record)