Originally Posted by Fat Chinese Dood
Also @Peterko, just so you know, TRE has a Double Subway record higher than yours that he hasn't posted yet. :P I guess he'll probably post when he gets #1 or when he loses the streak.
It looks like my record post gets a bit of advance warning this time, instead of the usual.
Politoed @ Choice Scarf ***OpRainFall
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
Timid Max Speed Scarf Politoed has 201 Speed, outrunning all Base 130s in the Subway. Over 90% of the time, you will be leading off by using Surf, with the other attacks seeing mostly situational usage. Psychic is good for taking on Dry Skin Toxicroaks, and sometimes Tentacruel. Ice Beam is used every now and then to take out Dragons. Focus Blast is a bit of a extra move, as its 70% accuracy isn't something I can rely on. I never use it as my opening move in a battle, but may bank on it if Politoed was swapped out and brought back in late in a battle against something like Empoleon or Lapras.
Politoed is often expendable to the team as long as the rain is up, but it's often best to keep it alive as long as possible against trainers like Workers who are likely to have weather changers. Don't be afraid of dealing damage to Politoed with friendly fire, for reference:
Ludicolo 75% Surf: 39-46 damage
+1 Ludicolo 75% Surf: 59-69 damage
Kingdra LO 75% Surf: 53-63 damage
Politoed is usually able to take two Surfs in the battle, and when its low on health, it draws in opponent attacks, so it's usually a good idea not to finish off Politoed with your own attacks.
Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb ***RideTheDUX
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 212 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Fake Out
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam
Ludicolo is the main workhorse of this team. 212 Speed EVs gives it 116 Speed, outrunning Scarfed Garchomp when in the Rain. The Absorb Bulb makes it a real destructive force but it can't be taken advantage of on the opening turn due to Politoed being slower that Ludicolo. A +1 Surf from Ludicolo along with a Surf from Politoed is often able to wash away the opposition, giving them no chance to fight back. I haven't done any real damage calculations for it, but it is powerful enough to take out a 252 HP Bronzong without much effort.
Although Fake Out is present on the moveset, Surf is more often used on the opening turn. After all, preventing a move by fake out isn't nearly as good as preventing a move by fainting the opponent. Fake Out however, is vital to get around some of the more dangerous Pokemon.
Examples of Fake Out usage:
-When the opponent also runs a Fake Out user (eg. Infernape 4, Dewgong 3)
-When one can be KO'd by Politoed's Surf while the other will survive a Double Surf (eg. Rapidash 4 + Escavalier 4 Pair)
-When one has Trick Room (eg. Slowking 4)
-to provide cover for Politoed to switch out (eg. Kingdra 4)
Grass Knot was chosen as my Grass Move of choice. +1 Grass Knots are able to 2HKO Vaporeon, and they can OHKO Pokemon like Walrein, Lapras, Suicune, and Milotic, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Wailord, which I find more appealing than the healing factor of Giga Drain. Giga Drain is a lot better for dealing with Lanturn, however.
Ice Beam is for Grass and Dragon coverage.
Kingdra @ Life Orb ***Ryuuseigun
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 60 Atk / 252 SAtk / 196 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Dragon Pulse
Kingdra is the backup Swift Swimmer. It was one of the four Kingdras that was used for the 613 Battle Hall Record. I changed the EVs a bit so it now has 196 Speed EVs which allows it to outrun Scarfed Manectric when in the Rain, and thus everything in the Battle Subway save for a few other Swift Swim users (Seismitoad 3,4 and Floatzel 1,2,3,4). Dragon Pulse chosen over Draco Meteor for reliability. Protect is given to Kingdra, mostly as a way to help handle Trick Room situations a bit better.
Waterfall is used as the 4th move for the sake of having some physical offense aside from Scizor. With the Rain going, along with the Life Orb, Waterfall does pretty respectable damage to things like Blissey, who would just sit there and soak up Surfs without any problem otherwise.
Scizor @ Bug Gem ***LunaticRed
EVs: 180 HP / 254 Atk / 4 SDef / 72 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
When initially running this team, I had a Jolteon for the 4th spot. Then I remembered about 40 battles into my very first run with the team that it would make my team heavily Ferrothorn weak. I then switched it for a Bisharp.
I got to about 100 wins twice before losing with Bisharp, finding the 4x Fighting weak to be an extreme liability against Legendary trainers. I then swapped for the Scizor you see.
72 Speed EVs gives my Scizor 91 Speed which allows it to outrun Base 70s. In addition, my Scizor is just barely able to take a 75% Surf from +1 Ludicolo, taking at most 165 damage. I've found that Scizor fills in the holes in the team very nicely. It's a safe switch against Grass and Poison moves which can be trouble for my leads, it demolishes Ice Types, and keeps the team from collapsing under Trick Room. Bullet Punch doesn't need any explanation. Superpower is useful against Regice and Empoleon. Protect is a must, as Scizor is the only one that doesn't resist Water on the team. Bug Bite is powered by a Bug Gem. The extra strength on Bug Bite is very useful when dealing with enemy Water Types amongst other things. There could be something else I could use instead of a Bug Gem for Scizor, but I haven't really done much experimenting with it, and stuck with the Gem.
After getting to ~190 twice, then 320 wins prior to this record, I felt that I had a winner of a team with Scizor as my 4th.
Drizzle + Swift Swim on the same team? I could be Banned.
When initially thinking about making a Drizzle team for Double Subway, I kept deciding that I'd have troubles with things like Ferrothorn, auto-weather and Trick Room and wrote it off as a team that wouldn't make it too far. Then kind of put it aside as the VGC season started.
With this year's VGC winding to a close, I decided that worrying about the team's flaws was getting nowhere and to just make the team and see how things go. I found most of the theorized issues weren't as difficult to handle as I thought, while opponent Swift Swim users floated up to being the biggest threat to the team.
Many of the opponent trainers stand no chance against this team. Trainers like Hikers, Black Belts, and Battle Girls are essentially free wins. Many other trainers are often down 2 or 3 Pokemon by the time Politoed or Ludicolo are taken down. As the team gets going right from the start, it is very important to pay attention to the opponent's trainer class, in order keep a step ahead of the opponent. Not paying attention can get you into pretty unpleasant situations.
It averages about 15 minutes to get through a set of 7 trainers. Which is an improvment over my Battle Frontier Trick Room team that averaged about 18.
Legend Trainers (Gentlemen, Socialites, Veterans)
As many would tell you, the Legendary Pokemon trainers in this gen are no joke. They have a much larger variety when it comes to offense sets, and support sets compared to what they had in 4th Gen. Protect, Icy Wind, a single Regigigas with Wide Guard, and a single Cresselia with Trick Room can go a long way in causing issues to the team.
Trick Room Teams (Harlequins)
Not quite as dangerous as I originally thought they would be, but they are still worth a mention. A lot of their non-Trick Room Pokemon are water weak, and a lot of their Trick Room users can be handled fairly easily with Fake Out. In cases when they bring two Trick Room users, I find it better not to use Fake Out, and just attack. Most of their TR users can't do much offensively, and sometimes they will both try to use Trick Room and cancel each other out.
The most dangerous lead they can have would be Cofagrigus + Guts Hariyama, but I've only ever ran into that once (and would have lost if I didn't get a bit of luck).
Water Teams (Fishermen)
Water Pokemon don't do too well against each other. I have an advantage over them with Ludicolo, but it's really the only defense I have. If Ludicolo gets taken out it can get a bit tricky to handle them.
Hail Teams (Ice Workers)
A classic on Trainer Threat lists. Snow Cloak, Blizzards, and Sheer Colds are no fun. Abomasnows will cancel out my rain. But another way to look at it is that my Politoed gives me a way to cancel out their Hail. Between dousing out their Hail, and having Scizor going on a Bullet Punch rampage, these trainers become a lot more managable. It's always a big worry for me if Scizor gets taken out by Blizzard freezes though.
Rain Teams (Parasol Ladies)
Take the Fishermen's team, and remove a lot of the not so dangerous Pokemon, and adding in some Electric Types, and you get the Parasol Lady. The most threatening trainer to this team. They pack a lot of Pokemon with Water Absorb and Swift Swim, along with the usage of Thunder which closes the offensive strength gap compared to Fishermen against my team.
My team still wins out against them, but it doesn't take much for them to turn the tides.
Hippowdon: The Pokemon itself isn't a problem to my team, but the loss of rain can give the opponent an opportunity to try something.
Tyranitar: Since some of the Tyranitars have Speed EVs, it's a bit more dangerous to face than Hippowdon. All my Pokemon have attacks that can hit it hard however.
Abomasnow: The most dangerous auto-weather. Hail is more of a problem than Sandstorm is, and the Pokemon that benefit from it are more difficult for me to handle. Scizor is the only thing on my team really keeping Ice trainers in check.
Regigigas 4: The main problem with Regigigas is that they are only used by Legendary Trainers. So whenever one shows up as a lead I have to be aware of a potential threat of Wide Guard.
Bastiodon 4: Just be aware it has it. It's the most common Wide Guard user.
Bastiodon 1, Machamp 1, Mr. Mime 2, Throh 1: Rarely show up so they don't matter too much.
Mienshao 4: Will always use Hi Jump Kick instead (and get itself murdered by 2x Surf)
Kingdra: The easiest way to handle Lead Kingdra is to Fake Out, and switch to Kingdra on the first turn, then take them out. Watch out for Kingdra 2 who runs a Haban Berry, which will allow it to take a Dragon Pulse and OHKO back.
Ludicolo: They aren't really weak to anything, so you just have to hit them harder than they hit you. Fortunately, Ludicolo 1,2,3 don't really have much offensive strength. Scizor can easily defeat them with Bug Bite, but has to watch out for Ludicolo 4, which can outrun and OHKO with Hydro Pump, and Ludicolo 2 who has Surf.
Seismitoad: Seismitoad 3 and 4 can outspeed my Kingdra, and they run Poison attacks which hurt Ludicolo quite a bit. But since they are 4x Grass weak, and Water neutral, they are easily taken out.
Floatzel: Will always be faster than my Pokemon, but they are the least dangerous Swift Swimmers, due to lack of secondary STAB.
Manectric 4: Outruns Ludicolo and Politoed. Leads with Thunder for an OHKO. Which can get pretty annoying at times
Lanturn: Grass Knot is a measley 40 Power against them, and they like throwing Thunder Waves around. They are run in water teams so their ability to cripple Ludicolo makes them dangerous.
Vaporeon 4: Water Absorb + Signal Beam is a pain for Ludicolo.
Regice: Special Wall. Takes Surfs like a champ and can get troublesome to handle at times. Especially when Regice is throwing around Thunder Waves or Icy Wind while I try to deal with opponent legendaries.
Blissey 4: Minimize Blissey is very annoying. If it shows up, and Scizor is already KO'd, it has a good shot at beating me. Fortunately, that has yet to happen.
Ferrothorn: Walls everything except Scizor. Fortunately, they usually just sit there and do nothing since none of them have Power Whip, and the CPU AI in BW has forgotten how to use Gyro Ball properly. Since Ferrothorn 2 has rest, it usually requires me to bring in Scizor ASAP to take it out. Ferrothorn 1 runs Thunder Wave which is a pain, but you usually only ever see them from Workers, who are largely water/grass weak, so they don't matter much.
Trick Room: Addressed when talking about Harlequins. Outside of Trick Room teams, they will still try it at just about any opportunity, since my leads outrun almost everything. This can end up with Scizor being the fastest thing in Trick Room, allowing the team to maintain function.
How I lost:
vs Worker Hayes
He leads with Ferrothorn and a Gigalith
I already know that the Ferrothorn is Ferrothorn 1, which isn't too dangerous aside from its Thunder Wave spam.
I double Surf and take out Gigalith, and Ludicolo is hit with Thunder Wave.
A Hippowdon is sent out. Killing off my Rain.
I know that the Ferrothorn will Thunder Wave Politoed, and don't really want to get my reserve Pokemon paralyzed, so I go for another Double Surf.
Hippowdon is taken out, but not before hitting Ludicolo with Crunch, putting it at 61HP. Ferrothorn uses Thunder Wave as expected.
Excadrill is sent out, and I probably wished that I didn't finish off that Hippowdon there, although I didn't know at the time.
Both of my Pokemon are fairly damaged, and they are both Paralyzed. I decide to swap both of them out. Politoed could return and reset my Rain, while Ludicolo could try to put a Fake Out to good use.
Kingdra is sent in for Politoed and Scizor for Ludicolo. I was thinking that whatever Excadrill decided to use, I should be able to take it, then bring Politoed back on the turn after to wrap up the battle. The Excadrill goes for the Drill Run on Kingdra.
Drill Run is only 80, so Kingdra should take it easily. Then I watch as the health bar goes further than I thought it should have. All the way to zero along with words that I probably didn't want to be seeing here.
No critical necessary. Apparanty Sand Force + Soft Sand allows Excadrill 1 to guarantee OHKO my Kingdra.
I send back in Politoed to bring the rain back and reduce Excadrill's offense, and act as a Decoy as I throw a Superpower at Excadrill. It survives in the red, and Ferrothorn Thunder Waves my Scizor.
I bring out my Ludicolo. I have a bit of a bad feeling of being fully paralyzed, and went for a Fake Out and Bullet Punch on Excadrill.
The Fake Out goes off and Scizor is indeed fully paralyzed while Ferrothorn puts a Sandstorm back up.
Now it's do or die. Scizor needs to get off its Bullet Punch or else I'm probably done for.
"Scizor is paralyzed! It can't move!"
And it's over.
"Excadrill uses Rock Slide!"
Ludicolo avoided the attack!
Scizor avoided the attack!
Ludicolo uses Ice Beam!
An unexpected double miss by the CPU, but since I wasn't expecting something like that to happen, I didn't target the Excadrill on this turn with Ice Beam. Even so, Scizor still has a shot at this.
"Scizor is paralyzed! It can't move!"
Scizor proceeds to be fully paralyzed for the third in a row and the battle is over as a Drill Run and Iron Head finishes off my Scizor and Ludicolo. a 4-2 situation turned around just like that. I think the turning point to the match was that double switch I made. I might have gotten a little overconfident of the situation which led to me losing my Kingdra. I somehow convinced myself upon seeing the Excadrill that it would do something like Poison Jab or Dig, completely overlooking its 4th moveset that had neither of those moves.
The loss leaves me with a record of 828 wins. Overall, I had a bit of luck in that I didn't get haxed out sooner. Scizor only ever got frozen by Blizzard once in all the battles, and defrosted just in time to win that battle. I never really got any BrightPowder hax, and rarely got fully paralyzed aside from the one where I lost. There were a few battles that ended up with a narrow victory every 100~200 battles or so, but aside from that there wasn't much else. Thank god for the severe cut to hax items in the Battle Subway. Because I'm almost certain a team like this wouldn't get anywhere close to 800 without it.
Battle Subway Super Double Battle
R Inanimate (828) - Politoed, Ludicolo, Kingdra, Scizor
These are a couple various Battle Videos with this team. I think the Last two are for the record run. And the loss video is placed separately below.
Battle 829: 93-86274-17302
Oh, if you're wondering who this is, suddenly dropping an 800+ record in the topic, I'm TRE's brother. I used to share his account to post my records. Since I actually have an account on Smogon now, I'm posting this myself instead of through my brother's account.