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np: OU Suspect Testing Round 5 - Sandstorm (Excadrill/Thundurus Banned)
- Thread starter JabbaTheGriffin
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We banned Garchomp because it was uncompetitive. Getting free turns over hax, when Jirachi is the best abuser of hax there is. Its great bulk makes it easy for Raichi to hax its foes to death, and Wish makes things worse.
No we did not.
We banned Garchomp because the hax would often allow it to steamroll an entire team. In Jirachi's case, the hax allows it to deal and extra 20% damage. Big difference between the two.
For fucks sake fatsnorlax, just shut the hell up about Jirachi -_-. Garchomp was banned because that free turn meant it could have a free Sub, Swords Dance, or just dodge a revenge kill. Jirachi is not able to boast that at all. the Pokemon that just take a dump on Jirachi can easily be fitted on any team, and with only Wish for recovery, it can be worn down. If your team is entirely destroyd by a Jirachi, your team sucks, quite frankly.
Heh, you would have commited suicide against Skymin.
Like previosly stated, Garchomp wasn't banned for being uncompetitive.
Jirachi just isn't such a serious threat. Is it annoying? Yes. Is it a bitch t take down with SPECIAL attack*hint*? Yes. Is it broken? LOLno.
Even the thing it's suppossed to 100% counter can cripple it with Trick(Latios).
I woulda used Mamoswine. Mamo would seem like a good check to Raichi, but some people run a lot of extra speed to outrun my precious pig. I usually works tho.
I'm just an observer, here, for what it's worth.... I assume this is the thread to discuss the nominations.
I was only saying that I get the Jirachi nominations. They are coming from guys who have their sweeper paraflinched to death, and it's even worse because Jirachi's freaking iron head barely does any damage.
Will it be banned? I seriously doubt it even gets more than a couple votes. Using Jirachi is not broken, but it is abusing an exploit of the game, imo.
I'm laughing at the Dragonite nominations, too. It has no counters? For one, with perma-sand so common, Dragonite isn't going to have its multiscale without leftovers. Even then, it's weak to status. Ice beam is going to hurt dragonite and at the very least force a switch. DD Nite can't set up on ice beam.
Two, DD Nite needs dragon dance, roost, and a dragon move to use its ability to its fullest potential. It's last move is usually fire punch, or the rare earthquake. It doesn't have the moveslots to cover all of its threats. If you go with Fire Punch over EQ, then heatran comes in and removes you with dragon pulse, HP ice. If you go with anything other than Fire Punch, Scizor and Ferrorthorn ruin the day (especially Ferrothorn's carrying thunder wave)...
As someone who often used a dragonite, I can tell you that it gets stopped cold by more than one threat, and I haven't even mentioned the will-o-wisp yet.
Also, I will be very happy if you take away it's multiscale. That likely means it won't be long before I can slap it onto my UU team.
On top of all that, Skarmory usually has a field day, setting up hazards, roosting, and then phazing out a dragonite weakly trying to burn it with fire punch just to get SOME extra damage.
To say that D-Nite has "no counters" is just wrong. It's far more accurate to say that it always has at least one counter, and that one counter is usually a very popular pokemon.
Not sure what to make of the brightpowder suggestions.... seems that a select group would love to hax their way to victory. Brightpowder was legitimately banned, I don't see how that has changed.
Reading through the nomination threads, it's easy to spot the people who are nominating based on the rules and even easier to spot the guys whose team struggles with a certain pokemon and want it gone so they can keep their ranking up.
Lastly, I am a bit disappointed. It seems that the noms about auto-weather are going to be split. Nothing will get a majority if half of you guys vote on sand veil and snow cloak, and the other half vote on perma-weather.....
I was only saying that I get the Jirachi nominations. They are coming from guys who have their sweeper paraflinched to death, and it's even worse because Jirachi's freaking iron head barely does any damage.
Will it be banned? I seriously doubt it even gets more than a couple votes. Using Jirachi is not broken, but it is abusing an exploit of the game, imo.
I'm laughing at the Dragonite nominations, too. It has no counters? For one, with perma-sand so common, Dragonite isn't going to have its multiscale without leftovers. Even then, it's weak to status. Ice beam is going to hurt dragonite and at the very least force a switch. DD Nite can't set up on ice beam.
Two, DD Nite needs dragon dance, roost, and a dragon move to use its ability to its fullest potential. It's last move is usually fire punch, or the rare earthquake. It doesn't have the moveslots to cover all of its threats. If you go with Fire Punch over EQ, then heatran comes in and removes you with dragon pulse, HP ice. If you go with anything other than Fire Punch, Scizor and Ferrorthorn ruin the day (especially Ferrothorn's carrying thunder wave)...
As someone who often used a dragonite, I can tell you that it gets stopped cold by more than one threat, and I haven't even mentioned the will-o-wisp yet.
Also, I will be very happy if you take away it's multiscale. That likely means it won't be long before I can slap it onto my UU team.
On top of all that, Skarmory usually has a field day, setting up hazards, roosting, and then phazing out a dragonite weakly trying to burn it with fire punch just to get SOME extra damage.
To say that D-Nite has "no counters" is just wrong. It's far more accurate to say that it always has at least one counter, and that one counter is usually a very popular pokemon.
Not sure what to make of the brightpowder suggestions.... seems that a select group would love to hax their way to victory. Brightpowder was legitimately banned, I don't see how that has changed.
Reading through the nomination threads, it's easy to spot the people who are nominating based on the rules and even easier to spot the guys whose team struggles with a certain pokemon and want it gone so they can keep their ranking up.
Lastly, I am a bit disappointed. It seems that the noms about auto-weather are going to be split. Nothing will get a majority if half of you guys vote on sand veil and snow cloak, and the other half vote on perma-weather.....
narp
we banned him due to his uncompetitive nature that gave him a huge boost + his stats + typing
garchomp was just a good pokemon that happened to be too good.
That true beheeyem does miss out on magic guard, which is obviously better although beheeyhem like i said can do some work and has access to doubling its base 125 sp.atk stat. Clearly most people would say reuniclus is better, but beheeyem still has something there, and tbh you should try it out a few times to see it for yourself. Plus cheers, i thought my first post would be a set for a poke that should be more looked into :)
A permanent Trick Room ability will be banned ASAP.
No, we would make bans to mold around it so we don't have to ban it directly.
In sandstorm its pretty much unstoppable once it gets a Swords Dance, barring a few brave souls like Conkeldurr and Azumarill.
See@Gliscor, Skarmory, and Hippowdon, to name three more off the top of my head.
Throw Bronzong/ most of the Air Balloon users into the list as well.
Once Techniloom comes out, Excadrill will be even more manageable. Even Hyper Offense will have a way of dealing with it without resorting to Air Balloons.
I just saw an Excadrill weaken and flinch a Skarmory to death in a match just a few hours ago. This isn't a rare cosmic event or anything either. People really think that just because they have Skarmory, Excadrill won't do anything to their team. Well, how are you killing it then? Brave Bird? You need to have Skarmory + another good check to keep Excadrill from going to work. And you need to keep the both of them perfectly healthy to make sure you don't get swept. Can you imagine how difficult this is for teams that don't have a Gliscor?
I'm starting to think the ban supporters are right. They give really good arguments as to why the game is better off without Excadrill, while I keep hearing the same nonsense over and over like 'it doesn't seem broken' or 'it has a lot of counters'. Well gosh, I'm not seeing any of them besides Gliscor. And furthermore, Gliscor himself barely counters anything in this metagame besides Excadrill. Yes, Gliscor himself is higher in usage, but that's only because non-Sand teams can use him as a safeguard for Exca, while non-Sand teams can't use Exca at all.
Excadrill is limited in some ways yes, but that's because he's the perfect benchmark for what is required to be the perfect sweeper in this game without flat-out being Arceus or Mewtwo: faster than everything, resistant to the most common forms of priority, and counters that are about as limited as he is. Gliscor for not doing anything else, Skarmory for not actually being able to kill him, and Tangrowth for doing a really good job against all but X-scissor variants. I don't think Brozong is even good in this meta, but I'll bite, he's about as decent a counter as Tangrowth is.
But the problem lies within the fact that if he is packing that all important move to kill your Growth or Brozong, you lose the game. Are you all really okay with this?
I'm starting to think the ban supporters are right. They give really good arguments as to why the game is better off without Excadrill, while I keep hearing the same nonsense over and over like 'it doesn't seem broken' or 'it has a lot of counters'. Well gosh, I'm not seeing any of them besides Gliscor. And furthermore, Gliscor himself barely counters anything in this metagame besides Excadrill. Yes, Gliscor himself is higher in usage, but that's only because non-Sand teams can use him as a safeguard for Exca, while non-Sand teams can't use Exca at all.
Excadrill is limited in some ways yes, but that's because he's the perfect benchmark for what is required to be the perfect sweeper in this game without flat-out being Arceus or Mewtwo: faster than everything, resistant to the most common forms of priority, and counters that are about as limited as he is. Gliscor for not doing anything else, Skarmory for not actually being able to kill him, and Tangrowth for doing a really good job against all but X-scissor variants. I don't think Brozong is even good in this meta, but I'll bite, he's about as decent a counter as Tangrowth is.
But the problem lies within the fact that if he is packing that all important move to kill your Growth or Brozong, you lose the game. Are you all really okay with this?
dragonite has ana amazing counter. rhyperior! rock balst breaks multiscale and he can take any hit with the right ev's. Eviolite rhydon works better
Funny thing is, you're actually right. It can deal with anything besides CB...which is actually his best set and first onsite. >_> But it would be funny to switch into Dragon Dance and shrug off the words 'It's super effective!' If only Rhyperior weren't a pretty bad option in OU as is. There goes the 'amazing part', lol.
We've dispelled this myth many times, my friend...hint, one has Solid Rock, Leftovers, and a higher base Attack while the other doesn't.
That's another thing. I don't think we'd be having this conversation without Rapid Spin. The fact that he wastes all of the time I spend setting up hazards for my sweepers by spinning and daring Ghosts to switch in and die is quite ridiculous in my opinion. Your opponent will essentially have a hazardless team with Excadrill around. Nevermind the loss of X-Scissor; this is what allows shit like Multiscale Dragonite with Leftovers be threatening in the first place. Volcarona too, if you were so inclined to put him on your Sand team.
With Rapid Spin: the ultimate supporter and clutch victory sweeper.
Without: he has X-Scissor or Frustration. Goodbye, a shitload of his checks.
Putting things in perspective, I'm not too fond of the mole anymore and what he's done to this metagame. He's keeping other sweepers from being effective (speed boosting sweepers can't do shit anymore) and makes the weather metagame even more centralized than it is now. I mean, I like Scarf Politoed, but Excadrill is really the only lasting incentive I have to put him on every team. Either it's that or Gliscor.
I kinda want to use Rhyperior now, I wonder it can actually be effective in OU.
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