Black & White Battle Subway Records

twash said:

Plans (Machamp) @ Focus Sash
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- DynamicPunch
- Stone Edge
- Bullet Punch
- Payback

...
Ice Punch is over Payback because of Gliscor, Garchomp, and Torterra. It is also helpful in some other cases, such as against Venusaur. Payback would still be better for the Latis and some other bulky Psychics/Ghosts, but generally they are either too frail to cope with Stone Edge, or too slow to be hit for double power (and so Stone Edge is a better move with the critical hit chance). I find that the team copes with these types very well regardless of this move choice, so I am happy to stick by it.

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I think you meant to put Ice Punch in the moveset instead of Payback, since that's what your description explains.

Good job on your streak so far!

First Page said:

Black & White Battle SUBWAY MULTI Records (human player partner):
...
3. Chinese Dood & Sally (70) - [SIZE=-2]Reuniclus, Conkeldurr + Togekiss, Azumarill[/SIZE]

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Not really much of an improvement (though it does get me 1 rank higher I guess haha), but just wanted to mention that it's 77 now and still going, and I updated the post in the link reflecting that.

so I’m sort of a lurker here, but after reading enough on this website and some hard thought, I came up with this team which was good for a 106 streak on the Super Single line (I know the EV’s are built for level 100, and may not be 100% standard but I generally use the same pokemon for WiFi as the subway/towers in gen IV):


Uxie @ Lum Berry
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Calm
252 HP/ 128 DEF/ 124 SP DEF
Yawn
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Memento

This is the crux of the whole team. Use it as a lead. if I get something I’m afraid will outspeed + taunt, I hit them with psychic or t-bolt (toxicroak is the most common taunter I’ve faced, easy KO with psychic). Otherwise, yawn. If I’m sure it has a berry that will wake it up, switch to scizor. If not, the way this works is Yawn + Memento on the turn the opponent is still awake, letting me switch in Haxorus (or scizor, depending on the opponent and the situation, but it’s almost always haxorus as Scizor plays more of a failsafe role) on a pokemon that is garunteed to be asleep for at least one turn (because it fell asleep, and has not had one “sleeping” turn yet). Lum is for preventing the opponent from messing with the fact that Yawn and memento *must* be successful back to back in order for this to work.


Haxorus @ Persim Berry
Ability: Mold Breaker
Nature: Adamant
252 ATK/ 252 SPE
Dragon Dance
Substitute
Outrage
Earthquake


the main sweeper of the team, uxie sets up haxorus so I can set up a substitute for free, and get atleast one garunteed dragon dance up. If I’m lucky and he keeps sleeping, or if I know the opponent is using a -2/-2 attack that will not break the sub, I can be daring and try for more, but usually sweeping with +1/+1 outrage with a sub still up is enough. persim is obvious to deal with confusion from outrage, making it much more likely for haxorus to sweep through an entire team.







Scizor @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
Nature: Adamant
252 HP/252 ATK
X-Scissor
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Brick Break

Scizor is the failsafe. Tried this same team with another pure setup Metagross (used hone claws for the setup attack) and the highest I reached was a 42 streak. Scizor is much more reliable, because especially with the Focus Sash, if something goes wrong with the setup, or haxorus somehow fails to sweep the entire team, Scizor can usually come in and save the day. with focus sash, he wins practically every one-on-one battle when haxorus fails, and if the setup goes wrong, he’s bulky enough to take a hit and if not KO, at least take the trouble pokemon into low enough range that Uxie can KO before setting up on another. plus, a lot of times that the set up with uxie fails, I already threw memento at a pokemon and was surprised that it was carrying one of the awakening berries, in which case, -2/-2 doesn’t touch Scizor and I can easily set up a swords dance or two. Did it’s job perfectly.








PS want to thank Team Rocket Elite for his list of pokemon used by the subway trainers. EXTREMELY useful and definitely helped me hit 106.

Yeah Chinese Dood, I had it wrong when I theorymonned it on PO originally (I just exported it to the above), thanks for the catch haha!

Peterko said:

You-the-one-whose-name-shall-not-be-used :p, are you still mad at me for being dick...ish a year (or two?) ago after my insane record was broken in a "mine´s larger than yours by 3 video" fashion lol?

Well, I didn´t really understand what you were trying to say in that post, but if you imply that this time I updated the list just a few hours after you lost...let me just say that I planned to update the list on the 31st of December 2011 (also I´ve updated the gen.4 list which took 7 hours) and as far as I´m concerned, it was a coincidence that you posted that day.

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You were dick...ish before I broke your record, not after :) (not anything that really would have transpired the same way anyway). Remember, I took issue with your repeated "how's your streak?" when you had the record by like 2,000, and you totally discounting my awful luck (like my "lol 499" battle) to the point of taunting me about Regice and my team not being good enough etc. Anything that happened and/or was said after that was a direct result of that as far as I'm concerned.

So no I wasn't at all referring to you immediately updating, I don't care about that. I was referring to you being "mad" enough at me to actually refuse to type my name for well over a year even though if anyone should have been that annoyed it should have been me (for the reasons rehashed above). Remember I haven't been around enough to know how often you update the list. Plus, again, I could just have not posted if I didn't want everyone to know...

As for Mercury´s record, I admit I don´t really understand how he got to 500+ with that, but I don´t care anymore...I mean not as much as to tell how my Suicune streak ended at like #30 to scarfchomp outrage CHs, or to find flaws in his team etc., there was proof so I just added him without any comments, whatsoever.

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I'm actually very glad to see this especially from you because that was the first thing I wondered when I actually analyzed his team, like I haven't gotten to the part where he posted it and what people think (I'm still on legit vacation, in Aruba currently) so maybe it was posted about at the time but yeah. Like, obviously I compared it to my Latios/Suicine/Terrakion team as far as a "good goodstuffs team" is concerned, and the battle I lost to Worker Hayes at 274 or whatever (my team started a rather "beginner's luck" ~200-0, I've already admitted it really isn't "300+ streak" awesome), and like, his own team doesn't fare much better against teams like that.

As a recap I lost to lead Hippo4, Tyra3 (DD Chople) and BP Duggy, and Hippo4 is mega SpD so Gengar isn't 2HKOing with Shadow Ball, and it can only really 2HKO Hippo1 which can Crunch for the "OHKO" after sand. So he'd have to switch to Suicune while it Curses, and I understand how effective Substalling can be but without Leftovers and in the sand he can't really Sub stall since he only has three subs so he'll have to take one naked and rest again, and +2 Crunch just barely misses the OHKO on Garchomp, etc. He still wins this battle probably if Tyra doesn't CH Garchomp with Crunch. The bigger point is that if and when this Tyra leads again Gengar and DDs, he's kind of in a bit of trouble even if Focus Blast hits (which is the part that makes me scratch my head the most, CB Fly [95%] missed four times out of no more than the first 10 times I tried it on Sala) because of Chople (and sand SpD boost obv). So he has to switch, and Suicune doesn't really do so well Subbing against faster stuff, and "what if it's the hasty one with IB that has a decent shot of OHKOing Garchomp"? And I've had enough trouble with Froslass and Starmie with my goodstuff team to want to retire it sooner and sooner when I'm restarting a streak, but enough about that theorymon.

Now here´s another 400+ singles record out of nowhere and I´m like Okaaay, I´ve spent 800 hours on this game over 7 months and my best is 390 in doubles and people just pull 400s...but whatever.

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Understand the sentiment exactly (from both you and Chinese Dood), the Ferrothorn team confuses the heck out of me because I tried an Audino lead before with Growl and I either got Taunted or faster shit with Sub would piss on me. Specifically Charizard, TWO of which have Sub, which would kind of murder Shuckle, a Gastrodon that is walled totally and the 4x weak Ferrothorn. I mean, I'm pretty sure Power Split doesn't go through Sub (I know Gastro Acid does not), but both Sub Zards have BD and do not care. Like, even Scrafty with Sub or the one with Taunt...how does he beat that with the slowest poke in the game? So much stuff has Taunt or Sub and just will use it against anything that the strat just seems a little to shaky to have gotten that big a streak without seeing pokes like that..."but whatever."

Good luck to all, I'm wrestling between using my Whinsi team (which I still feel is foolproof) and using a speedier team that's about as good as my Latios/Suicune/Terrakion team or better. I've tried CB Garchomp and it's great, but I hate switching out of known Sturdy mons or stuff with Sash that will cause trouble for no reason. 102 Speed makes such a big difference compared to CB Sala it's not even funny...

I'm seriously confused right now. I started using a Sturdy Skarmory with Shed Shell in the Battle Subway as my lead. And I noticed that I cannot switch out of any Pokémon.

First Pokémon I see is Machamp. I want to switch to Cresselia to take the DynamicPunch, but Skarmory cannot be switched out?
Next battle against Feraligatr, same as above, Skarmory cannot be switched out.

Isn't the Shed Shell supposed to let you switch anytime? Is it a glitch or what, because this is really starting to annoy me.


After some more testing it seems that I can switch out when not leading with him. So I'm guessing that leading with a Shed Shell user means that you cannot switch out until you faint. Curses, this screws over my whole strategy. But I guess it's good to find this out in the beginning of a streak and not somewhere higher up.

Just a small note that I played around with the Bug Buz/Quiver Dance/Substitute/Morning Sun(Rest) Volcarona discussed as a possibility a few pages back, and I was *not* impressed. Even bold with max defense, the physical defenses significantly limited what it could set up on, and the lack of pressure (as compared to Suicune) compounded that, as it made it much harder to stall out a single attack that can break the sub and then set up on the other three attacks.

It's entirely possible I'm just addicted to 'Cune in the subway, but for a stand alone poke, built to set-up on its own without relying on crippling pokes to give it an opening, I've yet to find anything that compares. My first question when evaluating any sort of set up or wall poke for a potential subway team is "does this do the job better than mono-attack Suicune?" and all too often, the answer is no and it's back to the drawing board.

@NoCheese: I think it depends on whether or not you're using Volcarona in a cripple-setup team, or just straight setting up. For straight setting up, yeah, it's hard to get Volcarona going. It can pretty much only set up on certain bug/grass types and non-attackers probably (maybe some others). It's ok as a cripple-setupper though from my experience.

For straight setting up, yeah, hardly anything can do it as consistently as Suicune. The closest I found was CM Cobalion which was decent given Flash Cannon's no immunity. Curselax was ok, except mono-normal sucks, and not going mono means either no sub or no rest.

More than just its stats though, mono-water for suicune is not bad. Things like Musharna/Cresselia/Uxie can go mono-psychic and be decent probably (water is still a better defensive typing) if not for the fact that physical darks will always win.

lol my 13th doubles streak above 70

Pokémon Black Battle Subway Super Doubles streaks: 92, 95

On sunday and monday, I´ve done a few Super Doubles, just wanted to have fun with cool Pokémon:

Arcanine @ Sitrus Berry (Intimidate, Adamant, 0-252-0-0-6-252): Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, ExtremeSpeed, Close Combat
Gastrodon v1 @ Quick Claw (Storm Drain, Modest, 6-0-0-252-0-6): Earth Power, Scald, Substitute, Ice Beam
Gastrodon v2 @ Rindo Berry (Storm Drain, Modest, 6-0-0-252-0-6): Earth Power, Scald, Protect, Ice Beam
Scizor @ Lum Berry (Technician, Adamant, 86-252-4-0-4-164): Bug Bite, Bullet Punch, Swords Dance, Superpower
Latios @ Life Orb (Levitate, Timid, 6-0-0-252-0-252): Psyshock, Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot

The leads are amazing together, but you can be sure that the AI will find your weak points soon. Having no Rock resist in the back asks for Rock Slide flinches from the likes of Aero, etc. Still, I really enjoyed using this team as Arcanine is my favourite Pokémon. Also LOL at random stuff with Energy Ball (Musharna).

Battle #93: Arcanine, Gastrodon, Scizor, Latios vs Rampardos, Floatzel, Musharna, Nidoking

Turn 1: Rain Dance, Head Smash, Arcanine fainted, Scald, Rampardos fainted.
-> Latios, foe Musharna
Turn 2: Ice Beam, Latios frozen solid, Scald, Energy Ball, Gastrodon fainted.
-> Scizor
Turn 3: Ice Beam, Latios fainted, Bug Bite, Floatzel fainted, Shadow Ball.
-> foe Nidoking
Turn 4: Bullet Punch, Earth Power, Psychic, Scizor fainted.

That loss is ridiculous seeing as ¾ of my team have a way to bypass a freeze (Blitz/Scald/Lum), so, of course, the AI had to freeze Latios... and I thought my Subway Ice paranoia was getting out of hand lol.

I have no clue why I had Sub on Gastrodon as I´ve only used it in doubles (actually just one other streak) and it´s not as useful as in singles.

So yeah, Protect and Rindo and here we go... lol I lost ONE battle further than last time, I´m not kidding...

#96 vs Janitor Oscar: Arcanine, Gastrodon, Latios, Scizor vs Abomasnow, Gardevoir, Glaceon, Moltres

1. Gastro Protect, Arca Flare Blitz, Garde 3% left, Garde CM, Aboma Wood Hammer, Gastro Protected, Hail dmg, Garde fainted.

-> foe Glaceon

2. Glaceon Detect, Arca Fare Blitz, Aboma Sash, Arca Sitrus, Gastro Scald, Aboma fainted.

-> foe Moltres

3. Moltres Air Slash, Arca fainted, Glace Blizzard, Gastro 20/187 HP.

-> my Latios

4. Latios Dragon Pulse, Moltres 20% left, Moltres Heat Wave, Gastro fainted, Glace Blizzard, Latios fainted.

-> my Scizor

5. Scizor Bullet Punch, Moltres fainted, GlaceTROLL Signal Beam, confused, 125/156, Lum, Hail 116/156

6. Scizor Superpower 90%, GlaceTROLL Shadow Ball, Sp.Def drop, 84/156 HP, Hail 75/156 HP.

7. Scizor Bullet Punch, GlaceTROLL avoided, GlaceTROLL Blizzard, Scizor fainted.

Well, fuck this. I hate Snow Cloak so much that I can´t describe it in words, it cost me way too many streaks. Funny thing that when I tested Aboma-Glaceon for VGC, I got more burning Heat Waves against me than my Blizzards froze the oponent, which was ridiculous. By the way, what was that Glaceon smoking? I mean wtf signal beam and then shadow ball? Seriously, seeing as they confused and got a special def. drop, respectively, don´t tell me the AI doesn´t know such things in advance...

I don´t think I did any mistakes in the game, maybe having Grass Knot on Protect Latios (quite a bad coverage, steels got on my nerves) wasn´t such a good idea as Bolt would´ve probably KOed Moltres, giving me 2 more shots at Glaceon. But still, a Glaceon spamming never miss Blizzards, protected by 20% evasion is among the most ridiculously overpowered things in the Subway, you have no chance to win if it starts avoiding the hits you rely on. Nothing can repeatedly shrugg off 200 spA Blizzards (that freeze) unless they´re fat Walreins or something ...

This team´s been amazing though and ArcaDon (GastroNine) are plain awesome together as leads, I really enjoyed this streak.




Now, I´ve just tested my new Mamoswine that I got on Monday. Funny thing, this was my first DW RNG abuse ever and I actually got the right nature on the first correct delay. Afterwards I could´t hit the delay for hours while going for Tyrogue lol.

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash (Thick Fat, Adamant, 0-252-0-0-6-252): Earthquake, Ice Fang, Protect, Rock Slide
Zapdos @ Electric Gem (Pressure, Timid, 6-0-0-252-0-252): Thunderbolt, Heat Wave, Hidden Power Ice 70, Detect
Latios @ Life Orb (Levitate, Timid, 6-0-0-252-0-252): Psyshock, Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, Grass Knot
Metagross @ Occa Berry (Clear Body, Adamant, 0-252-0-0-6-252): Iron Head, Earthquake, Ice Punch, Bullet Punch

DW Mamo is the only Ground type that resists Ice (I think) and that´s awesome, so it can be paired with a flying/levitating Dragon or Zapdos and STAB Quake while not having two Ice Weak pokémon out. Next time I´d use a different item on it though, maybe something that boosts its damage, because the dmg output generally felt weak. I find the decision of not having access to other physical Ice moves beside Ice Fang to be kind of trollish, because Ice Fang does pathetic damage and missed when I actually chose to use it (against Torterra). Also I´m rather disappointed in EleGem Bolt on Zapdos, as it doesn´t get KOs against neutral stuff and I´ve used the always missing Heat Wave more often than Bolt.

As with any other Subway teams, the biggest trouble is facing fast(er) Pokémon, also it is kind of ridiculous that the AI leads in every other battle with a Levitating Pokémon or something that counters Mamo. Maybe that´s just the charm of #1-49.

Lost battle #45 to a legendary team, because Latios missed a low health Zapdos twice in a row thanks to BrightPowder, which gave foe physical Thundurus just enough turns to finish off Mamo and then Latios.

Awesome use of Thick Fat Mamoswine! It's really too bad with its lack of physical ice. :(

Peterko said:

Gastrodon @ Quick Claw (Storm Drain, Modest, 6-0-0-252-0-6): Earth Power, Scald, Substitute, Ice Beam

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Something wrong with the EVs there?

Was the Quick Claw actually useful on Gastrodon? Or could you have replaced it with a Rindo Berry to make it not as woefully grass weak?

Sigh... I just got another mediocre streak in super doubles: 76. I should probably stop posting every team that barely makes 70 but this is a cool team in my opinion so I thought I may as well post it anyway.



Beheeyem @ Focus Sash
Quiet
IVs:31/30/31/30/31/2
EVs: 244/0/12/248/6/0
Stats: 181/95/97/193/116/41
Telepathy

Psychic
Hidden Power (Fire)
Trick Room
Ally Switch



Scrafty @ Life Orb
Brave
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252/252/0/0/6/0
Stats: 172/156/135/57/136/56
Moxie

Drain Punch
Crunch
Ice Punch
Fake Out



Bronzong @ Power Anklet
Brave
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252/252/1/0/5/0
Stats: 174/155/136/94/137/34
Levitate

Gyro Ball
Earthquake
Rock Slide
Trick Room



Gyarados @ Macho Brace
Brave
IVs:31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252/252/1/0/5/0
Stats: 202/194/99/69/121/77
Intimidate

Waterfall
Earthquake
Ice Fang
Protect

Obviously this is a Trick Room team. I was sick and tired of being screwed over by Trick Room Bronzong and friends that I thought I'd give the subway a taste of its own medicine!

Beheeyem seems like a wierd choice as a Trick Room pokemon since it's not particularly bulky and it still gets outsped by some pokemon when Trick Room is active. I chose it mainly because I wanted to try out Ally Switch. This move has sounded awesome to me for ages but I was turned off by the fact that it is only learned by around 6 fully evolved subway-legal pokemon. Alakazam, Gardevoir, Gallade and Xatu just aren't bulky enough. Claydol definitely has bulk and resistances but it also has many weaknesses (including weaknesses to Surf and Blizzard, which Ally Switch won't help you with). Beheeyem seems to have just enough bulk to use it though (as this is a Trick Room team you can afford to invest in bulk which gives Beeheyem some durability). Ally Switch can even help in situations where I'm not under Trick Room since it can delay the opponent from killing itself and its partner for long enough for me to win.

Scrafty is a great partner due to its typing. Dark-type trainers (Bikers and Roughnecks mainly) can be made into easy wins since Beheeyem can spam Ally Switch to avoid the inevitable Dark attacks (that do next to nothing to Scrafty) while Scrafty kills them. Moxie is great too, since it makes him very powerful even with just 1 boost. Fake Out helps Beeheyem set up. The main downsides with Scrafty are that he lacks power before Moxie kicks in and he is also a tad fast for a Trick Room abuser (lots of things outspeed him in Trick Room). He's still solid overall though. I tried giving him a speed-lowering item but that just made his lack of initial power even more obvious. He needs Life Orb as far as I'm concerned.

Crunch, Drain Punch and Fake Out are self-explanatory. The fourth move was difficult to pick. I went with Ice Punch for Dragons, but I'm not sure it was the best choice. Salamence has Intimidate, Dragonite is bulky, and some of the dragons have Yache Berry, so they can still be troublesome. Maybe Fire Punch would be better for Escavalier. Escavalier is the reason I picked Hidden Power Fire on Beheeyem though the sick irony is that because I'm force to have a speed IV of 2 all Escavalier's outspeed Beheeyem in Trick Room (a 0 IV only guarantees a speed tie with Escavalier 2 and 4 and the other ones outspeed me regardless).

Bronzong serves as a back up Trick Roomer that can come in on Brave Bird and stuff. It mainly throws out Gyro Ball (the other attacks are very weak). Power Anklet may seem odd since it is already slow enough to outspeed enough stuff in Trick Room but it needs it to boost Gyro Ball's power. Without it, Gyro Ball only has maximum power against opponents with 204 speed. Power Anklet halves it to 102.

Gyarados has nice Bug and Fighting resistances and Intimidate. Gyarados can work quite well in Trick Room since you are able to invest in power and bulk without caring about speed. It mainly uses Waterfall and the flinches are nice. Macho Brace actually makes him "faster" than Beheeyem in Trick Room so they is definitely no issue with his speed.

The team works, though I'm not sure about the back-ups. I haven't found much need for a back-up Trick Roomer so Bronzong probably could be dumped for something else. Ferrothorn could be cool with maybe Rotom-S (who has good defensive synergy with the team and is slow enough for Trick Room with an speed dropping item) as a partner. Not sure if I can be bothered breeding them though.

If the first turn set up goes smoothly battles are easy, but if it doesn't things get messy. Annoyances include:

• Faster Fake Out Users - how I act depends on what it is. Mienshao for instance prefers to Hi Jump Kick Scrafty so I can Fake Out safely. Otherwise I usually have Scrafty just attack if I think they will Fake Out. That way if they flinch Beheeyem then Scrafty at least gets a hit off. If they flinch Scrafty then I have a high chance of setting up Trick Room.
• Ghosts with Taunt - the worst is Quick Claw Spiritomb who is so unpredictable. Taunt can stop Trick Room, Will-o-Wisp nerfs Scrafty, its priority moves ignore Trick Room and wreck Beheeyem, and Quick Claw is annoying.
• Inner Focus pokemon - CB Dragonite is nasty, though Sawk and Lucario are just as bad. Usually I switch to Bronzong or Gyarados appropriately and have Beheeyem try and set up Trick Room.
• Curse-Rest - annoying especially if Beheeyem (my only special attacker) is dead. They usually die to repeated beatings and they are easier to deal with when Trick Room ends so they're not so bad.
• Iron Ball - just something to look out for, though once they Fling it they aren't a big deal anymore
• Opposing Trick Room Teams - mainly annoying because a lot of their pokemon outspeed Scrafty in Trick Room. They can also cancel out my Trick Room with their own.

I lost to a damn Iron Ball Seismitoad. I successfully predicted the Fling and used Ally Switch accordingly, but then it got lots of Rock Slide flinches to prevent me from doing anything. Maybe I should have set up Trick Room straight away but it would have been an easy battle if it weren't for Rock Slide.

Still trying to get a good doubles streak :( Maybe I should just copy someone else's team?

Noooo you can get a better streak without copying someone's team! You'll get there! :)

If you want a more immediate power slower fake-outer, there's always Guts Hariyama.

I'm thinking your back-up(s) should be something with STAB priority moves, so that they can function in and outside of trick room. That's how I usually build my TR teams anyway (always have at least 1 priority user, ... usually in the back). The best two I've used are probably Conkeldurr and Azumarill. I'm pretty sure plenty of other things will work too (Hitmontop, Metagross, Scizor, Dragonite {ES not STAB but still powerful} etc.).

Chinese Dood said:

Awesome use of Thick Fat Mamoswine! It's really too bad with its lack of physical ice. :(

Something wrong with the EVs there?

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Yeah should´ve been 252 speed, this Gastrodon has max speed (91) and QC, go me!

@ R Inanimate: I know you´re the Water type expert around here. Well, QC is kind of trollish, but saves my butt if it works against those faster rocks, I mean I remember an Aero flinching me three times in a row in one battle (QC obviously didn´t work then). Plus, QC actually makes me smile while playing (which happens rarely), when it works :)

Also I´ve been trolling with a defensive recover QC Gastro on PO a bit in the last two weeks, maybe that´s why. I love Gastro though, as the AI will keep on spamming Hydro Pump on Arcanine only to give Gastro nice boosts.

Yes Rindo is an option, but STAB Grass would kill anyway (I think, because I have no defensive EVs) and those are easily predictable in the Subway, plus all three other members of the team resist and deal with Grass. Gastro hates those random Energy Balls more which throw me off, because I don´t check the movesets these days and my other teams never faced many Grass attacks...

The thing is, I didn´t put much thought into the Gastrodon team, I just felt like playing the Subway again and while browsing through my boxes, saw Gastro and wanted to use it after playing some PO battles with it. I chose its partner as an answer to the question "how do I get those boosts?" and saw Intimidate Arcanine (which is simply amazing), my back row was to cover as much as possible, I´ve used Lati-Zor a lot in the past and they work OK. Yes, a Surfing partner is another option, but that would take more time to put together and that team was ready in like 2 minutes and for that "much" theorymon, it worked surprisingly well.

atsync said:

The team works, though I'm not sure about the back-ups. I haven't found much need for a back-up Trick Roomer so Bronzong probably could be dumped for something else.

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Cradily and I tried out a TR team and we came to this same conclusion. Our original team was Marowak, TR Porygon2 + TR Beeheyem, Honchkrow. We swapped out Beeheyem for Bronzong for more reliability in setting up TR/surviving and dumped P2 for 4 attacks Snorlax (Return, EQ, Wild Charge, Rock Slide). P2 was almost always dead weight since Bronzong rarely fainted (we ran an Occa Berry on it) and its damage output was disappointing.

Also going to agree with Chinese Dood and say that having a priority user in the back is a great idea. This is the Honchkrow set we used:

Honchkrow @Macho Brace
Moxie
Brave 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
- Brave Bird
- Night Slash
- Sucker Punch
- Protect

EVs could probably have been better, and it's horribly walled by steel types and Tyranitar, but was incredibly powerful. We had Marowak and Snorlax to smash steel types, though. If you have access to a good Honchkrow with Heat Wave or Superpower that we make it even better.

I also really like your use of Ally Switch, that's pretty awesome.

Hariyama seems like a good option. Base 50 speed still seems a bit quick and having to RNG abuse it in 4th gen for the elemental punches is a bit annoying to me (well I CAN RNG abuse 4th gen if I absolutely have to but delays are annoying to deal with even with a timer) but the initial power is awesome and it could still do the whole Ally Switch game well (not as well as Scrafty though). It even gets a priority move (albiet the crappy Bullet Punch). I do like Scrafty's Dark STAB though. Actually I'm starting to think my problem with Scrafty is the I'm using it as a lead. It might make a better back-up because chances are it will come in when one of my opponents has been weakened a bit (in which case the Moxie boost will be easier to obtain). Hmmm...

Moxie Honchkrow sounds sweet. I might try that. It sucks that Superpower and Heat Wave are illegal with Moxie though. I might be able to use a mixed set with a Hidden Power for steels, but I'm probably better off just letting team members deal with them.

I was just going to quit using this team and try something else but now I might just stick with it for a bit longer now. Thanks guys!

Peterko said:

@ R Inanimate: I know you´re the Water type expert around here. Well, QC is kind of trollish, but saves my butt if it works against those faster rocks, I mean I remember an Aero flinching me three times in a row in one battle (QC obviously didn´t work then). Plus, QC actually makes me smile while playing (which happens rarely), when it works :)

Also I´ve been trolling with a defensive recover QC Gastro on PO a bit in the last two weeks, maybe that´s why. I love Gastro though, as the AI will keep on spamming Hydro Pump on Arcanine only to give Gastro nice boosts.

Yes Rindo is an option, but STAB Grass would kill anyway (I think, because I have no defensive EVs) and those are easily predictable in the Subway, plus all three other members of the team resist and deal with Grass. Gastro hates those random Energy Balls more which throw me off, because I don´t check the movesets these days and my other teams never faced many Grass attacks...

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I've really loved using Gastrodon when testing out my original VGC Rain team. Due to it becoming a offensive monster in rain with a boost or two under it, and it's low speed for answering Trick Room. But kind of find it difficult to think of a good way to place it into a Battle Subway team, due to higher variety in opponent Pokemon, higher presence of Grass Types and the lack of sideboarding. Gastrodon just felt a bit too specialized in its role.

I did try out Gastrodon a bit at one point, but didn't really do anything noteworthy with it. I did find that the CPU is completely blind to Storm Drain though. If you have rain set up in a single battle and send Gastrodon against a Water Type, they will just spam their water attack against Gastrodon thinking it is their strongest move, and instead just power up the sea slug's SpA.

I think another question I can ask about the Gastrodon would be if you found Substitute useful on it. It seemed like an odd choice to have Sub instead of Protect since Gastrodon seems a bit too slow for using Sub, although you did say that it was a 252 Speed Gastro.

Hi, i just made an account to ask you, do you guys accept ongoing streaks?

It's a super doubles streak.
This streak beats the second place with ease and is on it's way to beating the first place.

its now at 686, and I use the following team

1rst

Blaziken @ wide lens
Speed boost

- blaze kick
- high jump kick
- stone edge
- protect

2nd

rotom-w @ life orb
levitate

- thunderbolt
- hydro pump
- hp ice
- pain split

3rd

Scizor @ choice band
technician

- bug bite
- bullet punch
- aerial ace
- brick break

4th

Hydreigon @ leftovers
levitate

- dark pulse
- dragon pulse
- flamethrower
- protect


The strategy behind it is that basically almost all weaknesses are covered by resistances of multiple team mates and/or attacks.
Switching is dangerous in doubles but this makes it very easy to do so.
I also try to have a physical and a special in at all times.
Mostly i've used the standard movesets as basis with a few deviations.
I'll also explain individual strategies.

Blaziken:


Blaziken is slow and has lots of weaknesses (compared to rotom-w) so I usually protect on the first turn. This is to either nab a speed boost, have rotom kill off or damage the 'mon that threatens blaziken.

I've chosen blaze kick over flare blitz because I hate recoil and it has good synergy with the item.
stone edge is chosen over the standard sword's dance because 'ken is usually to frail to setup a sword's dance and it has solid power anyway.
Stone edge softens the flying weakness a bit and helps coverage.
All the offensive moves are boosted to much better levels by the item.

Rotom-w:

Rotom is such a brilliant beast: amazing bulk and power, it's coverage is nothing to scoff at either.
Life orb actually combines well with pain split increasing the longevity.
Hp ice makes a pseudo boltbeam, but because of the low bp it's only used against dragons (a neutral thunderbolt has 2.5 more bp then a se hp ice).
I chose this over hp fire, because I have enough fire attacks.

Scizor:

Scizor used to be a sword's dancing one, the fast pace discourages boosting. And bullet punch is was my most used attack anyway.
Scizor is usually just a revenge killer or backup.
Bug bite is used over u-turn because switching is so risky, also bug bite is stronger.
aerial ace is just because i got owned by a double teaming regigas once.
Brick break is used over superpower because i hate the stat drops.
Also, another fighting attack is always useful.
Despite that, I have only used this move once or twice and it's asking for a different move (maybe even quick attack).


Hydreigon:

Hydreigon is the least used of this entire team, the opening pair usually wipes the ground with everything. If a 'mon falls it's usually 'ken and scizor is good enough to clean up.
Despite all this I wouldn't wanna lose this thing. It's bulk, coverage and resistances help out a great deal.
This used to be a charge beam set, but protect was so effective on blaziken that this guy had to have it too.
Basically the amount of weaknesses this guy has attracts a lot of attacks so the ai targets this beast a lot.

Dragon pulse is used because, once again, I hate stat drops.
Dark pulse is for power.
Flametrower could better be replaced by surf coverage wise, but surf has a nasty effect of hitting my teamies of which only one has a water resistance.

And there comes another one..

First a Singles team with Ferrothorn as its only offense. Now a Doubles team without any usage of Fake Out or Spread Moves, and a slew of inaccurate attacks. Just when you thought you've seen it all...

Anyways, ongoing streaks are accepted, although you might get some people angry at you if you get yourself to first place then retire while still ongoing.

It might help us understand the team a bit better with some EV layouts to the Pokemon used.

And I guess I'll ask this as well, were the Leftovers on Hydreigon actually useful? Most double battles tend to be short, and it's in the back of the team.

R Inanimate said:

I think another question I can ask about the Gastrodon would be if you found Substitute useful on it. It seemed like an odd choice to have Sub instead of Protect since Gastrodon seems a bit too slow for using Sub, although you did say that it was a 252 Speed Gastro.

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I have no clue why I had Sub on Gastrodon as I´ve only used it in doubles (actually just one other streak) and it´s not as useful as in singles.

So yeah, Protect and Rindo and here we go... lol I lost ONE battle further than last time, I´m not kidding...

#96 vs Janitor Oscar: Arcanine, Gastrodon, Latios, Scizor vs Abomasnow, Gardevoir, Glaceon, Moltres

1. Gastro Protect, Arca Flare Blitz, Garde 3% left, Garde CM, Aboma Wood Hammer, Gastro Protected, Hail dmg, Garde fainted.

-> foe Glaceon

2. Glaceon Detect, Arca Fare Blitz, Aboma Sash, Arca Sitrus, Gastro Scald, Aboma fainted.

-> foe Moltres

3. Moltres Air Slash, Arca fainted, Glace Blizzard, Gastro 20/187 HP.

-> my Latios

4. Latios Dragon Pulse, Moltres 20% left, Moltres Heat Wave, Gastro fainted, Glace Blizzard, Latios fainted.

-> my Scizor

5. Scizor Bullet Punch, Moltres fainted, GlaceTROLL Signal Beam, confused, 125/156, Lum, Hail 116/156

6. Scizor Superpower 90%, GlaceTROLL Shadow Ball, Sp.Def drop, 84/156 HP, Hail 75/156 HP.

7. Scizor Bullet Punch, GlaceTROLL avoided, GlaceTROLL Blizzard, Scizor fainted.

Well, fuck this. I hate Snow Cloak so much that I can´t describe it in words, it cost me way too many streaks. Funny thing that when I tested Aboma-Glaceon for VGC, I got more burning Heat Waves against me than my Blizzards froze the oponent, which was ridiculous. By the way, what was that Glaceon smoking? I mean wtf signal beam and then shadow ball? Seriously, seeing as they confused and got a special def. drop, respectively, don´t tell me the AI doesn´t know such things in advance...

I don´t think I did any mistakes in the game, maybe having Grass Knot on Protect Latios (quite a bad coverage, steels got on my nerves) wasn´t such a good idea as Bolt would´ve probably KOed Moltres, giving me 2 more shots at Glaceon. But still, a Glaceon spamming never miss Blizzards, protected by 20% evasion is among the most ridiculously overpowered things in the Subway, you have no chance to win if it starts avoiding the hits you rely on. Nothing can repeatedly shrugg off 200 spA Blizzards (that freeze) unless they´re fat Walreins or something ...

This team´s been amazing though and ArcaDon (GastroNine) are plain awesome together as leads, I really enjoyed this streak.

CptObvious said:

It's a super doubles streak.
This streak beats the second place with ease and is on it's way to beating the first place.

its now at 686, team ...

Click to expand...

Now what the fuck´s this? So 2012 is really the year the world´s gonna end? Lol I apologize in advance for being rude, but I haven´t yet recovered from the above loss...

I was on a Poké break in November / December and apparently somehow they released that bullshit of a Pokémon (speed boost Chicken). I only found out because someone used it on PO against me and I was like WTF since when is this thing legal (although I still have no clue how you get it), oh well...

I´d bet all my money that if I had used such a team, HJK, Stone Edge, Blaze Kick and Hydro Pump would´ve missed as soon as battle #8 or so, probably multiple times by then. I admit my Wide Lens Terrakion´s Rock Slide missed like once in every 1/30-1/50 battles or so (although the first time was in like battle #7), but my point still stands that you´re using a 88% accurate Stone Edge and a 80% accurate Hydro Pump...that´s not such a major problem if you test a team to see how far it goes, but man how can you pull such a long streak.

I mean I´ve been proven over and over again that you can´t get a high streak if you rely on 90% accurate attacks, that´s why I don´t "love" Zapdos as much in the Subway, because Heat Wave misses in like every other battle... Plus, in my opinion, long streaks (200+ in my book) are really difficult to achieve in the Subway and you have to know what you´re doing. Even if you do, the Subway will hax you. I´m not even going to talk about how the AI is rather unpredictable with Protect/Detect, often trying two in a row and getting away with it...hello HJK recoil. Also, there´s still like 8 other Pokémon that outspeed Chicken after the boost, even if you´re Jolly.

I think I´m the one with the most Hydra Super Doubles usage by far and Leftovers is the biggest joke I´ve seen around here in a while. It´s not like you´re recovering HP to survive another attack if every other Pokémon in the Subway spams fighting, bug and ice moves that deal much more than 50% to it. I´d really love to see some of your battles against legendary trainers.

Seriously, if only you had 10% of the bad luck I experienced against Ice teams (Workers), there´s no way you get to 686, hell, to 300.

Maybe, just maybe, you´re that much better at theorymon/team building, at battling and have that much more luck than anyone else around here. If that streak´s legit, I will bow my hat. That doesn´t mean I´ll understand it.

EDIT: I apologize for getting emotional and being mean, I thought I was already mature and all.

R Inanimate, seems like you´re taking it much cooler than me...he posted proof and I´m screwed, because I don´t have a legit reason to not add him if he posts the Nature/EVs of his Pokémon.

By the way that picture is oversized (please make it smaller).

lol, funny thing is that the team is quite like GastroNine, a physical fire, a special water, a dragon and scizor and neither do I use spread moves ... wait, but I didn´t even get to 100.

I think it's just difficult for us Battle Subway veterans to quite grasp just how that kind of team reaches where it is at. Since we've probably been there and back in terms of seeing just how badly our luck can fail us.

I'll apologize if it makes it sound like we're trying to find ways not to accept a high record from new people, but I do believe that every team so far that has gone really far has had quite a bit of detail written for their team and its inner workings. The higher a team goes, the higher our standards tend to be for making sure that the team is legit. You don't have to give us a battle log of every battle you do, but things like what your team has troubles with, and your strategy to get around these road blocks, EVs for your Pokemon, Battle Video IDs (if you have Wi-Fi access), and the like can go a long way in making us really believe.

But continue your streak first. I want to see if you can take first place, or hit 1000 wins.

My duty was to say what R Inanimate said, but I guess I already said that in the first post. Thanks R Ina. We definitely need more information about the Pokémon and the team, in general, it´s for your own sake (believability).

I´m going to retry Mamoswine and go full offense, ScarfMamo, SpecsDos, CBMeta, LOLati...hmm although Jolly Mamo would´ve been better in that case...

R Inanimate said:

I think it's just difficult for us Battle Subway veterans to quite grasp just how that kind of team reaches where it is at. Since we've probably been there and back in terms of seeing just how badly our luck can fail us.

I'll apologize if it makes it sound like we're trying to find ways not to accept a high record from new people, but I do believe that every team so far that has gone really far has had quite a bit of detail written for their team and its inner workings. The higher a team goes, the higher our standards tend to be for making sure that the team is legit. You don't have to give us a battle log of every battle you do, but things like what your team has troubles with, and your strategy to get around these road blocks, EVs for your Pokemon, Battle Video IDs (if you have Wi-Fi access), and the like can go a long way in making us really believe.

But continue your streak first. I want to see if you can take first place, or hit 1000 wins.

Click to expand...

Well I'll try:

trick room always make me play careful, it makes 'ken a bitch to use since he gets slower each turn, protect helps a lot or just switching to scizor when its appropriate (has min speed/brave to help with it ofcourse), rotom is fine cause of his bulk.
It helps a lot that there are almost no fire types in those trick room teams and even grass is rare.
Some

Individual pokes i have problems with:

Jolteon
blaziken needs 2 speed boosts to outspeed it and its thunder hits pretty hard. It also heavily favors to target rotom. (usually go straight for it with both pokes targeting it, or make blaziken eat one attack/hope for a miss)


Manectric: I lost one high streak because of this guy, blistering speed and a suprise overheat to kill scizor. Also switcheroo can be a huge bitch.
(same as jolteon, so happy these things have weak defenses. also never send in scizor)

Musharna: its bulk makes it survive at least one attack, also a notorious trick roomer. rotom becomes progressively useless with each calm mind. (usually switch in scizor)

Espeon: is also troublesome because of its high speed and super effectiveness on blaziken.

storm drain gastrodon (high jump kick plus hp ice)

cofagrigus: blaziken cant hit him early because it needs a speed boost or 2, scizor cant touch it because it needs technician/afraid of WoW. (hydreigon loves to kill these)


also

concerning leftovers on hydreigon: no i should probably switch that to sitrus berry. Because hydreigon is not used that much it's usually sent in against psychics and ghosts, the only thing it needs to fear is an occasional signal beam.

ev

the spreads are just stupid (not so great in maths), i shuffled some of the standard spreads to my liking

blaziken: adamant @ 252 atk/252 hp/4 spe
rotom: modest @ 252 spa/112 hp/144 spe
scizor: brave @ 252 atk/248 hp/8 spe d
hydreigon: modest @ 252 spa/144 hp/64 spe

Could you maybe post IVs (assuming you know them but they aren't hard to calculate) and stats as well?

I'm wondering if Conkeldurr would be a better lead to pair with Beheeyem than Hariyama. Its has more power, it's faster under Trick Room, and it has STAB priority. But it isn't as bulky on the special side, has no Fake Out (Wide Guard is the only thing it has that could be used to help Beheeyem set up but that's hardly reliable), and lacks Close Combat and the elemental punches. I might try both at some point though Hariyama is looking good at the moment.

I'm using Metagross and Honchkrow as backups for now. I am actually going to get them in 4th gen though. I want Ice Punch for Metagross and Superpower + Heat Wave for Honchkrow!

Excuse me Obvious, but your chicken is adamant with only 4 speed EVs? Wow. I thought you were running Jolly max speed to hit 217 after a boost, but this is ... wow

That´s just 101 speed, 151 after a boost...only for reference, that´s slower than 164/780 Pokémon (21% of the Subway) and still slower than 15/780 Subway Pokémon after two boosts. How exactly do you handle an opening Aerodactyl Rock Slide flinch on wash machine?

Chicken is no Medicham whose LO HJK OHKOs even my max Atk/Spe Meta, there´s no way Chicken is OHKOing everything, I know it doesn´t (I´ve played thousands of battles with Hitmonlee´s 189 Close Combat, Chicken´s HJK is just 8% stronger)...

With max HP, Chicken is similar to Arcanine defensively (187-90-90 to 165-100-100) without taking the super helpful Intimidate into account. Yes Arcanine survives suprisingly lot, but not everything...then there´s CHs etc.

That team is really slow, 101-151-201 Chicken, 124 Rotom, 63 Scizor and 126 Hydra...

Good night. I know that it will be more difficult than usual to fall asleep tonight lol. I´m sorry, I just don´t get it.