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***Zebraiken**** · Feb 10th, 2012, 12:17:42 AM

Hey Ewil,

I like the usage of several underrated sets - Curse Miltank with Heal Bell is awfully annoying (how the hell do you kill it ;;), SD Jumpluff is pretty effective as long as that dastardly 75% accuracy Sleep Powder hits, and that Quagsire set is basically unkillable without Toxic. This is an interesting and solid team, and I think your rapid ladder climbing is a result of that. I do remember playing you with it; you had troubles handling special Samurott (granted, it's really pretty uncommon!). Water-types that have a way to bypass Quagsire, such as the aforementioned Samurott with Grass Knot, Gorebyss, and Simipour breeze through your team, which is a pretty big issue we gotta look into (rain teams). Also like you mentioned, Toxic Spikes can also be a problem, even though you have Heal Bell on Miltank. Before we get onto my solutions, I do want to question one moveset choice you made here; why are you running Fire Blast on Shelgon? It doesn't hit anything important ("surprise factor" really isn't valid reasoning) and you have a -SpA nature on it anyway. Go ahead and change Fire Blast to Dragon Claw. also it changes genders in your description??

Anyway, my thoughts:

Gorebyss and other similar attackers such as Simipour
WhiteDMist hit the nail on the head with this one. Currently, you're absolutely throttled by Gorebyss, and that's not a good thing. Gorebyss can buy an easy set-up turn if it's double-switched into Camerupt, who is too vital to your team to really risk losing it to a potential Surf. From there, a +2/+2 Timid LO Gorebyss has the ability to OHKO your entire team; Miltank is OHKO'd by Surf after SR, Ice Beam > Shelgon, Quagsire dies to HP Grass (that is, if it doesn't get an Amnesia boost in first, in which case it sort of has a chance to stall it out), Jumpluff is outsped and OHKOed by Ice Beam, Haunter dies to everything, and Camerupt obviously loses to Surf. It's easily the biggest threat to your team, and as such should be top priority here. There aren't many changes that can be made without disturbing the Pokemon you have laid out here, though. :/ You can try Lickilicky over Miltank, as it will play somewhat of a similar role, coupling Heal Bell with reliable recovery, and it tanks special attackers really well. On the other hand, Lickilicky's Wish support proves to be rather redundant with Shelgon (though Lickilicky's is generally much better, thanks to its higher HP).

Offensive partners are certainly worth consideration too, and they can take the place of either Jumpluff or Haunter, both of whom lack any real synergy with the team. Sure, they're neat gimmicks, but they don't really help any solidified team goal. Choice Scarf Rotom-S is probably the best fit over either, as it provides that vital EQ immunity and is currently one of the best Choice Scarf users in NU. It also revenges that lovely Gorebyss, as well as Simipour, Swellow, etc. Lastly, the final check I want you to consider is Bulk Up Throh. With maximum SpD investment, Throh can tank an attack from Gorebyss and phaze it out later. Throh also fits with that "don't let them set up" theme that you're trying to follow here, as it can Bulk Up and then Circle Throw things around so they don't set up on you. It's definitely worth considering two or more checks to Gorebyss, simply because it's so instantly threatening, and because you carry Camerupt who forces you to play the gambling game of "do I risk a KO and go for the Roar, or try to switch out of the Surf and risk it setting up?" Other notable Gorebyss checks include Jynx and priority users, such as Absol.
Toxic Spikes
This isn't really as obvious, nor is it as much of a problem because you still have Heal Bell from Miltank (though you only have 8 uses...). Your entire defensive core is vulnerable and heavily stunted by Toxic Spikes, particularly Quagsire whose entire purpose is defeated when it gets Toxic'd. Obviously there are a couple of ways to fix this: one, pick up a Poison-type, or two, pick up a Rapid Spin user. If you opt for the latter, I'd strongly suggest Specially Defensive Cryogonal, preferably over one of your two offensivish Pokemon (Jumpluff or Haunter). Cryogonal spins away Toxic Spikes and other detrimental hazards, while performing a decent job preventing set-up itself via Haze. Cryo also has pretty good synergy with the rest of the team, as the few special attackers that really threaten it (Magmortar) are handled by Camerupt, whereas basically every physical threat in NU is walled by Shelgon. As far as Poison-types go, you have limited options and it's really just a choice of preference at that point. Garbodor sets up entry hazards fairly easily and thanks to the switches your team forces, they're well-abused. Toxic Spikes in particular helps out both Miltank and Quagsire as they set up, allowing you to be less worried about crits and opposing Pokemon setting up alongside them. Skuntank also picks up those Toxic Spikes and gives you some strong priority in Sucker Punch to help check Gorebyss and other such Pokemon if necessary. There are quite a few other Poison-types that might be worth considering, like Curse Muk, Aromatherapy Vileplume, and Amoonguss, but I'm not going to post those sets simply because I'm already posting so many already lol. If you're interested in those, shoot me a VM and I'll give you the sets.

I think those changes should significantly help your team and prepare it much more for other teams you will encounter while laddering. Following this are the (many) sets I mentioned above, for easy reference. I'd advise mixing and matching some of these options, especially since your two issues have a ton of different solutions that could potentially be effective, depending on your playstyle. Experiment!

doop dah doop

Hope I helped, and GL with your team!

edit @ other rates: mold breaker bypasses magic bounce

Feb 10th, 2012, 12:17:42 AM	#4
*Zebraiken tell me when the storm rolls in Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 2,176 shine ∞ Mentor	Hey Ewil, I like the usage of several underrated sets - Curse Miltank with Heal Bell is awfully annoying (how the hell do you kill it ;;), SD Jumpluff is pretty effective as long as that dastardly 75% accuracy Sleep Powder hits, and that Quagsire set is basically unkillable without Toxic. This is an interesting and solid team, and I think your rapid ladder climbing is a result of that. I do remember playing you with it; you had troubles handling special Samurott (granted, it's really pretty uncommon!). Water-types that have a way to bypass Quagsire, such as the aforementioned Samurott with Grass Knot, Gorebyss, and Simipour breeze through your team, which is a pretty big issue we gotta look into (rain teams). Also like you mentioned, Toxic Spikes can also be a problem, even though you have Heal Bell on Miltank. Before we get onto my solutions, I do want to question one moveset choice you made here; why are you running Fire Blast on Shelgon? It doesn't hit anything important ("surprise factor" really isn't valid reasoning) and you have a -SpA nature on it anyway. Go ahead and change Fire Blast to Dragon Claw. also it changes genders in your description?? Anyway, my thoughts: Gorebyss and other similar attackers such as Simipour WhiteDMist hit the nail on the head with this one. Currently, you're absolutely throttled by Gorebyss, and that's not a good thing. Gorebyss can buy an easy set-up turn if it's double-switched into Camerupt, who is too vital to your team to really risk losing it to a potential Surf. From there, a +2/+2 Timid LO Gorebyss has the ability to OHKO your entire team; Miltank is OHKO'd by Surf after SR, Ice Beam > Shelgon, Quagsire dies to HP Grass (that is, if it doesn't get an Amnesia boost in first, in which case it sort of has a chance to stall it out), Jumpluff is outsped and OHKOed by Ice Beam, Haunter dies to everything, and Camerupt obviously loses to Surf. It's easily the biggest threat to your team, and as such should be top priority here. There aren't many changes that can be made without disturbing the Pokemon you have laid out here, though. :/ You can try Lickilicky over Miltank, as it will play somewhat of a similar role, coupling Heal Bell with reliable recovery, and it tanks special attackers really well. On the other hand, Lickilicky's Wish support proves to be rather redundant with Shelgon (though Lickilicky's is generally much better, thanks to its higher HP). Offensive partners are certainly worth consideration too, and they can take the place of either Jumpluff or Haunter, both of whom lack any real synergy with the team. Sure, they're neat gimmicks, but they don't really help any solidified team goal. Choice Scarf Rotom-S is probably the best fit over either, as it provides that vital EQ immunity and is currently one of the best Choice Scarf users in NU. It also revenges that lovely Gorebyss, as well as Simipour, Swellow, etc. Lastly, the final check I want you to consider is Bulk Up Throh. With maximum SpD investment, Throh can tank an attack from Gorebyss and phaze it out later. Throh also fits with that "don't let them set up" theme that you're trying to follow here, as it can Bulk Up and then Circle Throw things around so they don't set up on you. It's definitely worth considering two or more checks to Gorebyss, simply because it's so instantly threatening, and because you carry Camerupt who forces you to play the gambling game of "do I risk a KO and go for the Roar, or try to switch out of the Surf and risk it setting up?" Other notable Gorebyss checks include Jynx and priority users, such as Absol. Toxic Spikes This isn't really as obvious, nor is it as much of a problem because you still have Heal Bell from Miltank (though you only have 8 uses...). Your entire defensive core is vulnerable and heavily stunted by Toxic Spikes, particularly Quagsire whose entire purpose is defeated when it gets Toxic'd. Obviously there are a couple of ways to fix this: one, pick up a Poison-type, or two, pick up a Rapid Spin user. If you opt for the latter, I'd strongly suggest Specially Defensive Cryogonal, preferably over one of your two offensivish Pokemon (Jumpluff or Haunter). Cryogonal spins away Toxic Spikes and other detrimental hazards, while performing a decent job preventing set-up itself via Haze. Cryo also has pretty good synergy with the rest of the team, as the few special attackers that really threaten it (Magmortar) are handled by Camerupt, whereas basically every physical threat in NU is walled by Shelgon. As far as Poison-types go, you have limited options and it's really just a choice of preference at that point. Garbodor sets up entry hazards fairly easily and thanks to the switches your team forces, they're well-abused. Toxic Spikes in particular helps out both Miltank and Quagsire as they set up, allowing you to be less worried about crits and opposing Pokemon setting up alongside them. Skuntank also picks up those Toxic Spikes and gives you some strong priority in Sucker Punch to help check Gorebyss and other such Pokemon if necessary. There are quite a few other Poison-types that might be worth considering, like Curse Muk, Aromatherapy Vileplume, and Amoonguss, but I'm not going to post those sets simply because I'm already posting so many already lol. If you're interested in those, shoot me a VM and I'll give you the sets. I think those changes should significantly help your team and prepare it much more for other teams you will encounter while laddering. Following this are the (many) sets I mentioned above, for easy reference. I'd advise mixing and matching some of these options, especially since your two issues have a ton of different solutions that could potentially be effective, depending on your playstyle. Experiment! doop dah doop Lickilicky @ Leftovers \| Own Tempo Careful nature (+SpD, -SpA) \| 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Protect / Wish / Heal Bell or Dragon Tail / Return Rotom-S @ Choice Scarf \| Levitate Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk) \| 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Volt Switch / Air Slash / Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Grass or Trick Throh @ Chesto Berry \| Guts Careful nature (+SpD, -SpA) \| 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD Bulk Up / Circle Throw / Payback / Rest Cryogonal @ Leftovers \| Levitate Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk) \| 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD Ice Beam / Rapid Spin / Haze / Recover Garbodor @ Leftovers \| Stench Impish nature (+Def, -SpA) \| 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Toxic Spikes / Gunk Shot / Payback / Spikes or Haze Skuntank @ Life Orb or Leftovers \| Aftermath Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA) \| 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe Sucker Punch / Pursuit / Poison Jab / Taunt or Crunch Hope I helped, and GL with your team! edit @ other rates: mold breaker bypasses magic bounce __________________ Last edited by Zebraiken; Feb 10th, 2012 at 12:35:33 AM.