Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
I got a streak of 150 in singles with the following team:



Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Prankster
Timid
IVs: 31/x/31/x/31/31
EVs: 36/0/252/0/0/220
Stats: 140/78/137/90/95/180

Charm
Memento
Taunt
Worry Seed



Cottonee @ Eviolite
Prankster
Calm
IVs: 31/x/31/x/31/31
EVs: 252/0/92/0/164/0
Stats: 147/42/92/50/100/86

Taunt
Memento
Stun Spore
Flash



Dragonite @ Leftovers
Multiscale
Adamant
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 204/252/0/0/0/52
Stats: 192/204/115/99/120/107

Dragon Claw
Dragon Dance
Substitute
Roost

Using Cottonee and Whimsicott together is basically the same as using 2 Whimsicotts together. Basically I wanted to try a team with 2 Prankster cripplers. I went with Cottonee because I liked the idea of having a back-up Taunter, and the back-up Memento helps with Roar and Whirlwind leads (I can sacrifice Whimsicott and then Cottonee to ensure that Dragonite can't be swapped out while it boosts). Cottonee is also surprisingly bulky with Eviolite (and support from Whimsicott) so Flash spamming is easier. I still use Stun Spore over Cotton Spore despite Whimsicott knowing Worry Seed now, because the paralysis is so helpful for Dragonite.

Cottonee could be replaced by other Prankster pokemon though. Illumise could run a set of Struggle Bug/Charm/Flash/Thunder Wave which could work nicely. Volbeat lacks Charm but it has Trick as an egg move (and having no Charm isn't so bad thanks to Whimsicott). When the Snarl TM gets released, Murkrow could run Snarl/Featherdance/Thunder Wave/Taunt. I'm thinking of trying Illumise actually.

This team is rather slow, with sets of 7 approaching 40 minutes and beyond. However, the biggest problem for me has been the ridiculous amount of critical hits that have flown my way. There was one battle where I was against this:

684 | Gallade | Adamant | Scope Lens | Psycho Cut | Stone Edge | Night Slash | X-Scissor | Atk/SpD

I never felt threatened by it, but I swear nearly every 2nd hit it got was a crit. I was able to maximise my stats against it but after that it refused to let me keep my sub up at 100%. I actually ran out of sub PP but was thankfully able to avoid the crit at the right time and the battle went smoothly after that. Also, I faced at least 8 teams with 3 Focus Sash/Sturdy pokemon, though I survived them all.

I lost to a team that lead with Weavile 4. I forgot to save the battle so this is going by memory. Anyway Weavile has Taunt so I chose to Taunt it myself. I mispredicted and it hit me with Ice Punch. I Memento and send in Cottonee. I am thinking that Weavile is just going to attack me again so I Stun Spore and it hits. But then Weavile DOES Taunt. Cottonee Struggles against him a few times which breaks the Focus Sash at least but it dies before Taunt ends. In goes Dragonite. I try to set up, hoping for some luck with Paralysis, but it Taunts me. I am forced to kill it with Dragon Claw. The opponent sends in Probopass 4. Now I know it is going to be long and difficult if I want to win, but I'm gonna try! I'm still in Taunt so Dragon Claw does laughable damage. Probopass breaks the sub. One more Taunt turn so I use Dragon Claw, but then Probopass gets a crit and kills me.

Not sure if that last crit mattered because I'm too lazy to calculate the damage, though this battle does demonstrate the main flaw with using only one Sweeper: if something goes wrong, then that's it. No second chances. At least when I was using Bisharp I had a back up to give me a chance of getting out of this, though obviously I can't cripple the lead as easily.

Well 150 is a good streak though so yay.
 
Interesting team, atsync, and good job on that streak!

Some thoughts:
- Have you considered Murkrow? It can Feather Dance / Taunt / Twave / Filler = torment/roost/haze... Mainly Twave > stun spore. No memento though.

- vs that Gallade, you really shouldn't have that much trouble... If it's at least at -4... DD once then sub roost while DDing should be ok, unless you're crazy horrible luck with crits... If you're low on sub pp, just roost stall it out of Psycho Cut / Stone Edges first, then DD Roost, etc. Critical Hit Night Slash only does like 55% max to Dragonite (without Multiscale), so you can DD without sub even when Multiscale not activating.
EDIT:... Hm, I was just thinking, maybe you had sub issues because you're trying to only DD when behind a sub? With something that does not have status inducing attacks, you don't need to do that for Dragonite. You can just DD, take a hit, sub, then roost back to full health, and repeating in that cycle (DD when at full health subless). If that wasn't the case, then nvm! :P

- I know I mentioned Murkrow, but at the same time, I think that an issue with the team is the ice weakness, maybe? With a good ice resist, for example, you could have 1st turn Charmed Weavile. If it taunts, then you can just switch to your ice resist, then get Whimsicott back in to taunt/more charm, etc.

- Probopass's crit totally mattered. From what I gathered, Weavile never got to attack Dragonite, so with leftovers, Dragonite should be at 100 - 1/4 + 1/16 = 13/16 (81.25%) health left.

Adamant (Scope Lens) Probopass Stone Edge does 70% max.
Life Orb Modest Probopass Power Gem does less.
 

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
Thanks guys!

Very interesting atsync. Obviously it´s slow but I like that idea. Sadly Switcheroo isn´t legal with Memento
Yeah trust me I've bitched about Switcheroo + Memento Whimsicott being illegal all the time in this thread lol. Switcheroo isn't really ideal for this team anyway given how everything is ice weak (another reason to replace Cottonee).

Interesting team, atsync, and good job on that streak!

Some thoughts:
- Have you considered Murkrow? It can Feather Dance / Taunt / Twave / Filler = torment/roost/haze... Mainly Twave > stun spore. No memento though.

- vs that Gallade, you really shouldn't have that much trouble... If it's at least at -4... DD once then sub roost while DDing should be ok, unless you're crazy horrible luck with crits... If you're low on sub pp, just roost stall it out of Psycho Cut / Stone Edges first, then DD Roost, etc. Critical Hit Night Slash only does like 55% max to Dragonite (without Multiscale), so you can DD without sub even when Multiscale not activating.
EDIT:... Hm, I was just thinking, maybe you had sub issues because you're trying to only DD when behind a sub? With something that does not have status inducing attacks, you don't need to do that for Dragonite. You can just DD, take a hit, sub, then roost back to full health, and repeating in that cycle (DD when at full health subless). If that wasn't the case, then nvm! :P

- I know I mentioned Murkrow, but at the same time, I think that an issue with the team is the ice weakness, maybe? With a good ice resist, for example, you could have 1st turn Charmed Weavile. If it taunts, then you can just switch to your ice resist, then get Whimsicott back in to taunt/more charm, etc.

- Probopass's crit totally mattered. From what I gathered, Weavile never got to attack Dragonite, so with leftovers, Dragonite should be at 100 - 1/4 + 1/16 = 13/16 (81.25%) health left.

Adamant (Scope Lens) Probopass Stone Edge does 70% max.
Life Orb Modest Probopass Power Gem does less.
Gee thanks for calculating that lol. That doesn't please me at all. I guess I'd rather lose to hax than embarassingly bad misplay though.

Yes I did notice the ice problem after a while, since if I don't paralyse and/or flash them they are tricky to play against (I would likely have to Roost without a sub, which could end in a freeze). Illumise/Volbeat are DEFINATELY looking good now (Volbeat can Trick opponents into non-ice stuff which would be awesome; it would be much like Jumpman's use of Mesprit). Yes I know Volbeat doesn't resist Ice but no Prankster pokemon does sadly. I guess a non-Prankster pokemon could be an alternative too. I'll just have to come up with some crippling ice resistant pokemon (preferbly something interesting). So many things to try...

I'll admit that I do play rather cautiously when setting up Dragonite. I hate setting up naked. However, Multiscale generally saves you from crits (only really strong Ice and maybe Dragon attacks would KO you) so that could be something that I should try to remember when playing with him. Meh I don't even know why I bought up Gallade, it was just something that I remember being annoying to me!
 
My bad, Dragonite should actually be at 87.5% since it has one more turn of leftovers as Probopass breaks sub. Haha, sorry about that, but I was actually 99.9% sure that the crit was necessary even before doing any calculations, since I've used Dragonite before and I know how bulky it is even without Multiscale.

To be honest! If you're going to trick-scarf, you don't need a Prankster. The scarf + speed EVs will provide enough speed (in most cases depending on who you're using) to trick. Of course, Prankster will benefit from the turn even after tricking, but something bulky without prankster (like Mesprit/Uxie) seems safer than a frail tricker.

The need for a good ice resist was a big reason for the decision on my mono Volcarona in my recent Stoutland-Volcarona-Dragonite team (the alternative was the obvious Suicune, but I've used Suicune so much that I wanted to try something faster, and Volcarona is awesome at being faster and could sweep a good portion of teams even with just 2 or 3 QDs).

O yeah, on a totally unrelated topic... I recently found out that Luxray could do the exact same thing my Stoutland did (including the Intimidate part) except no charm (probably scary face/light screen/roar in place of charm), but is slower and less bulky. Typing-wise, both one weakness (ground vs fighting for Stoutland), but 2 resists (flying/electric) instead of one immunity (ghost for Stoutland). Stoutland is likely superior. Maybe, I might try out Luxray with Scary Face sometime for that Smeargle-Espeon combo though.

Yesterday out of no where I was thinking of Intimidate Gyarados with Twave/Taunt/Torment/Spite for crippling (maybe Dragon Tail somewhere if it fits). It's sort of CRAZY how... Gyarados does not learn Scary Face. I mean, I think his face is pretty scary looking. ... yes me and my Intimidate crippler ideas... next thing you know I'll be using a Timid Intimidate Qwilfish with Twave/Taunt/Explosion/Haze, which is probably one of the worst crippler idea I thought about lol.

Then I was thinking Sturdy Donphan @ Ground Gem??? - Scary Face / Knock Off / Earthquake / Charm (Maybe Mudslap somewhere?)... Basically all Clear Body pokemon are weak to ground (White Smoke Torkoal even haha, but that's not in Subway), so whatever I can't scary face, I can kill it with EQ. But Tentacruel outspeeding is a concern, as is the one metagross that has speed EVs that also has magnet rise. Only Aerodactyl and Tauros can scary face and EQ and is faster than Tentacruel... Tauros does have Intimidate, but nothing much else (Scary Face / EQ / Spite? / Magic Coat? / Incinerate?). Aero has Taunt/Torment/Stealth Rock. (I'm talking about pairing this initial crippler with Spore-Baton Pass Smeargle + Espeon/something receiving Smeargle boosts, by the way).

Hm, I really *should* get back into Double (like start thinking of something for VGC at least), but for some reason feel like playing Single Subway more. :P

Sorry for random randomness.
 

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
Yeah Uxie and Mesprit could work but I don't have them right now and I can't be bothered playing through diamond again (I already killed/released them in my current save file to get Heatran). I haven't released Cresselia though. That could maybe work...

Actually I was thinking that Dragonite wasn't the best choice of sweeper for Whimsicott and Cottonee. Hell, Volcarona could work! I think I'm done with Cottonee though. I want to try something else. I'll probably go back to a 1 crippler + 2 sweepers set up anyway, since it's faster and less repetitive.
 
Haha Volcarona is good, but it can't be the only sweeper if you are using Mono QD rest (Of all things ... Physical Soundproof Exploud will always win I think unless it gets burnt from Flame Body, but one has earthquake. Mr. Mime/Electrode are either special attackers or weak physical {seriously, Lonely Mr. Mime???} so can be rest-stalled easily). And if you aren't using rest... ... it'll be tough setting up sometimes.
 

atsync

Where the "intelligence" of TRAINERS is put to the test!
is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogon
Yeah you're right about Volcarona. I was only half serious when I suggested it lol. I suppose you could run HP Bug for Exploud (ewwww...).

I've been thinking more and I think I actually WILL get myself a Uxie and try that over Cottonee. Even if it doesn't work out, it can't hurt to have one...
 
Currently at a 91 streak with this team i derived from combining pieces of succesful team posted here

Stoutland @ Focus Sash
Jolly - Intimidate
Max Hp and Max Speed
Thunderwave
Snarl
Charm
Sand Attack

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Bold - Flame Body
Max HP and Defense
Substitute
Quiver Dance
Flamethrower
HP Ground


Suicune @ Chesto Berry
Bold - Pressure
NOt exactly sure on Spread but i think Max HP and Defense
Subsitute
Calm Mind
Rest
Scald


Lead With Stoutland. paralyze and/or Cripple according to the type of attacker it is, and squeeze in Sand Attack When i can.

If the Enemy has Rock, Flying, or Water Attacks, set up and Sweep With Suicune. Otherwise Set up and sweep with Volcarona

By the way, where do u guys go to get the Screen that shows ur current and previous Record Streaks?
 

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Your streaks are listed in the Vs. Recorder in the Key items section of your bag. Frustratingly, you can't use it while you are on the subway platform.
 
Battle Subway Doubles
Streak: 228
Team: Politoed, Ludicolo, Toxicroak, Ferrothorn

Proof




Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Ability : Drizzle
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 254 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Scald


Ludicolo @ Absorb Bulb ***RideTheDUX
Ability : Swift Swim
IVs: 31/x/31/31/31/31
EVs: 36 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 212 Spd
Modest Nature
- Fake Out
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Ice Beam

Same as R. Inanimate (thank you for that) and same strategie but with scald on hypnosis for Politoed (never use).


Toxicroak Focus sash
Ability: Dry Skin
IVs : 31/31/31/x/31/31
EVs: 6HP/252Atk/252Spe
Nature: Adamant
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt


Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability : Iron Barbs
Nature : Sassy
IVs: 31/31/31/x/31/0
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/6 Atk
- Curse
- Gyro Ball
- Protect
- Leech seed

How I loss :

Vs Scientist with Gyarados, Excadrill, Salamence, Lucario

Turn 1 vs Leviator, Excadrill
Ludicolo Grass knot Gyarados (about 75% HP)
Politoed surf, escadrill with red HP
Excadrill Poison jab, ludicolo KO, Excadrill KO (life Orb)
Gyarados dragon dance

Turn 2
Toxicroak out
Salamence out
Switch Politoed for Ferrothorn
Salamence earthquake, Coatox resist with focus sash earthquake,
Gyarados earthquake, Coatox KO, CH Ferrothorn (14 HP)
Ferrothorn Leech seed Salamence

Turn 3
Politoed out
Ferrothorn protect
Politoed ice beam salamence, salamence ko
Gyarados earthquake, politoed about 60% HP

Turn 4
Lucario out
Politoed ice beam lucario
Lucario aurasphere Ferrothorn, KO
Gyarados aqua tail politoed, KO

May have win if I double surf first turn.
 
@pifou69: Yeah, double surf or surf + fake out Excadrill. Gyarados isn't as big of a threat as Excadrill. I guess you just thought surf would KO Excadrill, not an unreasonable assumption I guess, drizzle surf and all.

Also, you double posted the same post. Might want to remove one of those posts.

@Tebow: Glad to see Stoutland and Volcarona being used. Hope you get far.
EDIT: O yeah, forgot to mention, Flamethrower + HP Ground means you'll be helpless vs Flash Fire Balloon Houndoom. That's the only one though, and if Suicune is around if/when you face it, then you're totally fine. I remember I chose HP Rock instead of HP Ground for my Volcarona because of that (didn't end up even using it, heh), but Ground is likely better most of the time.
 
Subway Freakonomics

Hey, I noticed that a little while back there was some scepticism/annoyance about less experienced players getting really high streaks.
I think we can safely say that most people who play some pokemon don't put as much effort in as the likes of Peterko/R Inanimate and many others, however this doesn't necessarily mean they will get lower streaks.

If you have a player who can create/copy a team, and has enough know-how to have a 1/10 chance of making it to 100, that would also mean that they had a 1/100 chance of getting to 200
300 = 1/1,000
400 = 1/10,000
500 = 1/100,000 etc.

It's not hard to imagine 10,000 people out there giving the subway a go, and if they all have 10 tries then it's actually likely that someone will make it to 500.

However, to get above 900 would be 1 in 1billion, which considering the limited number of serious subway players is a crazy number.

(Jump/Peterko's old HGSS streaks would be 1/100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!)

So my point is that statistically it's likely that a lot of reasonable attempts will come up with a high streak, but an incredible streak (like R Inanimate's recent one or the Peterko/Jump HGSS streaks) are very unlikely in this way.

This data is obviously not exact, but is does indicate there'll always be a point where better tactics/ideas/play will count for more than luck. So keep at it, and don't let the hax wear you down!

As I said, I'm not making reference to the records of anyone on here, I'm just pointing out that luck plays a part in the subway, but ultimately skill is more important.
 
Absolutely stupid question: how to see this in game? On DPP there were some screens, at the Battle Tower, showing the streak you were doing, but in the Subway?
 

Peterko

Never give up!
is a Top Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Bruno Magno the same question was asked and answered like 5 posts above you... Vs. Recorder in your bag (key items).

Hey, I noticed that a little while back there was some scepticism/annoyance about less experienced players getting really high streaks.
I think we can safely say that most people who play some pokemon don't put as much effort in as the likes of Peterko/R Inanimate and many others, however this doesn't necessarily mean they will get lower streaks.

As I said, I'm not making reference to the records of anyone on here, I'm just pointing out that luck plays a part in the subway, but ultimately skill is more important.
I´ll lean out of the window and think that you´re talking about my slight annoyance about investing a lot of effort and other people just getting higher streaks...just like that.

Here´s the thing. The more you play, the more hax you experience...up to a point when you identifiy / predict that this "shit" can happen (lol and it will, trust me) ... I often find myself just sort of "praying" (hopefully that and that won´t happen, which is funny because I can´t control the RNG during a battle). The best I can do is play flawlessly and most of my losses were due to misplay and bad luck rather than bad luck alone, resulting in my whining (not always) and being disappointed in myself (almost always). What I do, is I simply not giving up.

And believe me, I´ve seen it all...and there´s still things that surprise me from time to time. Now, from that experience, I´m instantly able to see situations where a particular team loses, no matter how good it is and no matter how good the user is.

The thing is, that if you don´t have as much experience and don´t predict the worst case scenario and just play not knowing/predicting all the stuff and make decision in the mindset of a "not so experienced" Subway player while you make mistakes from time to time (sometimes you won´t get away with 1 mistake because the AI punishes those instantly) AND still get a higher streak, it´s a tad more difficult to belive for us "more experienced" players. And no I don´t think I´m the most experienced nor with the most play time in the world.

We´re talking about believability of streaks here and unfortunately that´s a subjective topic, because as we said many times, there´s no 100% way to prove streaks, unless we all meet somewhere in real life and play our streaks in front of witnesses or something crazy like that.

What I´m trying to say is that yes, those streaks (non-fanatic players with solid teams) are possible from a statistic point of view and as we see they actually exist, but from a subjective point of view of a person that is like 2 hours away from a 999:59 game time (95% of it in the Subway) over the last 10 months (2 month break), who knows what he´s doing (most of the time lol), they "seem" or "feel" even less probable.

Long story short, I know it is possible, but it´s not easy to take. Learning to accept those streaks just like that, without emotions, is part of growing up for me. Oh well, I still sometimes fall into that emotionally weaker state, nobody´s perfect. I´m at least giving my best to beat those records, that´s the best thing I can do.


On topic of records, I haven´t played much this week, I´m at 91 with the Cloyster team, don´t know when I´ll continue. Good luck everyone, keep up the good work.

EDIT: At 119 now, also 999:59 :)
 
Good job on your 999:59! :P I remember having that in Diamond. It was mostly from traditional breeding rather than Battle Tower though...Oooooh all those hours of breeding when RNG wasn't so easily manipulated...

I'm trying to come up with something unique (or at least not too commonly used... like Drizzle rain team) and viable in Double Subway... hasn't happened yet.
 
Yeah, I also had the 999 hours in Diamond from breeding. What the hell was I thinking? Haha.

I haven't passed a streak of 36 yet in doubles so I started in singles now. I can't ever seem to find to find 3 team members that work well together without compounding weaknesses. For example I was using thunderus and Dragonite together but..ice weak. It's frustrating but I think it's mostly due to the pool of pokemon that I have to chose from at the moment. If I shift some stuff over I should do much better.
 
Dragon + Steel, or Dragon + Water, or Water + Steel type is usually a good start for making singles team, if you're going for weakness/resistance typing coverage. You can't really go wrong with any of those, unless your water + steel share same weaknesses (Dragon/Steel or Dragon/Water can't really share same weakness unless the secondary typing provide same weaknesses).

If you just don't want too many weaknesses but don't care much for resistance, pure normal types aren't bad (Blissey or Eviolite Chansey/Porygon2 come to mind as pretty good. Snorlax can work too). Just pair it with something that is immune to or resists fighting. Ghosts do work fairly decently with Normal for weakness<->immunity.
 
Can anyone guess what the viability of a Ninjask passing a Substitute, Speed and Hone Claws boosts to a Choice Scarf Rampardos would be? I'm getting tired of misplaying with my (IMO fairly reliable) Staraptor/Garchomp/Suicune team.
 
@Tebow: Glad to see Stoutland and Volcarona being used. Hope you get far.
EDIT: O yeah, forgot to mention, Flamethrower + HP Ground means you'll be helpless vs Flash Fire Balloon Houndoom. That's the only one though, and if Suicune is around if/when you face it, then you're totally fine. I remember I chose HP Rock instead of HP Ground for my Volcarona because of that (didn't end up even using it, heh), but Ground is likely better most of the time.
Yeah i just faced it today. I wasnt sure if there was a flash fire + ballon in the Subway. Luckily i had suicune left to take it out. Im at 125 or so now.... still going strong.
 
Good job on your 999:59! :P I remember having that in Diamond. It was mostly from traditional breeding rather than Battle Tower though...Oooooh all those hours of breeding when RNG wasn't so easily manipulated...

I'm trying to come up with something unique (or at least not too commonly used... like Drizzle rain team) and viable in Double Subway... hasn't happened yet.
i tried a Sashed Politoed/ LO Kingdra/ DD + Hydration Whishcash team. wasnt too successful though. 8-/
 
@RiggyRob: Hmm... Rampardos must survive the second pokemon it needs to sweep... since the sub will probably break after passing... also the computer seems to be aware that you're choice locked and will send a pokemon that resists the move you used (if it has one)...
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 9)

Top