LC CCAT--I have to Axew a question (FINISHED)

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Currently finished! See post 249 for details.

Hey everyone. Thank you for all of the work you put in to the previous CCAT thread. However, as you all know, Gligar was banned by the LC council 4-3. Since our previous CCAT was based on the Gligar metagame, and even included a Choice Scarf Gligar in it, we are unable to continue it due to Gligar's passing. So let's try again!

The CCAT will be an opportunity for the community to collectively work on creating an amazing AND CREATIVE team. We encourage everyone who wants to participate to do just that! There is nothing wrong with contributing, as long as your post indicates some semblance of metagame knowledge. Your input is highly desired, after all. This is a CCAT!

Step 1: We are going to start by picking which Pokemon (and set) we are going to be basing the team around. This does NOT mean the Pokemon has to be the late game sweeper, it means the team will be built around that Pokemon and whatever role it plays. After about a week, I will select which Pokemon are going to be in the poll that will be posted after we decide on a list of Pokemon. This means you have to convince me, and others, that your Pokemon is worth being put in the vote.

Step 2: We select Pokemon that work well around our Pokemon and fit the team style and test it. The nomination and voting processes will be identical to the initial nomination. Note that this one step will be, on its own, a 5-step process as all of the remaining Pokemon will need to be determined during this phase.

Step 3: We finalize the team and write up a 5-star RMT! Please stay on topic. This thread is meant to create discussion, but lets keep it civil gents and ladies!

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Now let the suggestions begin! Be as creative as you can! But keep in mind--we are creating a COMPETITIVE team. So as much as we desire sets that veer from the norm, make sure you have playtested them and can support them. We want to showcase some amazing undiscovered sets. Not Choice Band Happiny.

Team so far:


Thanks everyone for the hard work!

Now let me start off the suggestions with my own idea to base the team on.



Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 156 Atk / 196 Def / 36 SDef / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Drain Punch
- Payback

I think this is an excellent Pokemon in the current metagame, made even better without one of its biggest checks, Gligar. Mienfoo makes a fanfuckingtastic SubPasser due to its ability to force switches and Regenerator. Hi I'll come in on Scraggy, scare you, get up a Substitute, and then get the fuck out of there. The big reason, though, is Regenerator. For most Pokemon, if you set up a Substitute, it's crucial it remains standing. With Mienfoo, it sets it up to buffer itself from the next switch, and let you react accordingly. And even if the Substitute dies as you Baton Pass...well it's just like U-Turn, except you don't risk the hit (so it's kind of better???). Then Regenerator happens and you're at full health anyways and dgaf you wasted that Substitute. Mienfoo's relatively low speed means you will not get fucked up switching out badly, etc. The given spread will never be 2HKOed by Misdreavus at full health, but easily 2HKOes with Payback. With this thing, we have excellent support for future Pokemon in the CCAT. Basing the team on this Mienfoo gives us a lot of options to go from, as we can support a variety of play styles by passing Substitute.

Yes I copy and pasted the majority of my explanation from the previous CCAT.

Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 116 Atk / 196 SAtk / 36 SDef / 156 Spd
Mild Nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast

Houndour is a really fantastic mon, which sadly doesn't see much use due to a couple factors, being the weaknesses to common offensive types and the fact that it's relatively frail. However, I've used houndour a bit and i find that it's a really cool pokemon, able to Pursuit/Sucker punch its way through many current threats if they have a bit of prior damage. It may not be a straight-up sweeper, but it has an interesting niche that lets it function as a great teammate for mons that have trouble with ghosts and psychics. Also, fire blast coming from houndour puts a big dent in a lot of mons, which can help out your other team members later on or just let houndour sucker punch them to death. Houndour will be benefitting a lot from the banning of gligar, which basically forced it out and let gligar grab a free SD or something. I think this is a fantastic pokemon that really needs to see more use, and a successful CCAT is exactly what houndour needs.

I'm going to run some calcs of houndour breaking things and post them later.

Yeah, it's not OHKO-ing a lot of its threats, but like I said, it can severely weaken a team for another member or take out foes who have prior damage. (i just used the onsite sets here, im not sure what spreads people are packing)

Molly (F) the Misdreavus
Timid | 116 HP / 156 Def / 236 Speed
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Calm Mind
~ Shadow Ball

Alright, I know most of you probably think this sucks, but I love it. It's actually really easy to set up with because of the bulk and after 2 CMs it will be able to hit hard and be very bulky on the special side. RayJay said that this would be outclassed by RestTalk Numel, but it's really not. Numel wouldn't have the power to sweep like this Missy would when it reaches +6 (I have reached +6 with this before). It's saved me from losing many times already. There's just so much that it can set up on. Resttalk Chinchou, Bronzor, Lileep, Shelmet, Koffing (who should be used more, Imo. Great counter to Drilbur, people!), Magnemite (Maybe? Never tried it, but after a CM Missy definitely won't be 2HKOd), Staryu if you can win the speed tie (never tried it, just assuming), Tentacool, and lots of things that are never seen in LC. There's more, I just can't think of them. Once you're set up, not much can take a hit and not much is faster. Most scarfers will be too weak to OHKO. Obviously, it's walled by normal types and steel types bar Bronzor but that's what teammates are for (Although, I have PP stalled against Prem's Porygon once. So that stratedgy is viable if you're in a bad situation, because Missy can set up on Pory even if it has Shadow Ball). Also, the EVs can be tweaked, that's just what I've been using atm.

Charmander created the set (not the EVs, though), not me!

Edit: Gave some more details to try and persuade you guys! xD

I fell in love with this little jerk while testing the set for the previous CCAT.


Darumaka @ Choice Scarf. Hustle!
Jolly; 116hp / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

This guy, all he does is HIT HARD. He's so transparent. You see him and theres like one option. PUNCH. That's it. I like that straight forwardness. There is no Gimmick, nothing tricky just a really hard hitting OHKO machine. Hustle! is a little absurd, pushing most neutral Flare Blitz hits into a realm where with Rocks OHKO is not just possible but mostly gauranteed.

Alot of teams will be missing Gligar (as he was on so many) and even more teams wont need a check to Gligar, In an unsettled metagame I personally tend to favor the simplest solutions (IE Flareblitz hurts)

How about we use a tried-and-true Pokemon that has been around all of BW and has proven itself to be one of the best all-around sweepers in the game? I'm talking about SCRAGGY:

Scraggy (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Zen Headbutt

This has been a rather successful set in the past, and with the removal of Gligar, it no longer needs to run Ice Punch in order to sweep teams. I opted for Zen Headbutt over Hi Jump Kick because Zen Headbutt actually hits Croagunk for a lot more damage and Mienfoo will still also be taking a lot from the move (good chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock iirc). With the right support, this thing can once again become the beast that terrorized an entire metagame.

comatthew6 said:

I opted for Zen Headbutt over Hi Jump Kick because Zen Headbutt actually hits Croagunk for a lot more damage and Mienfoo will still also be taking a lot from the move (good chance to OHKO with Stealth Rock iirc).

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It doesn't come close to OHKOing with Stealth Rock. Adamant Hi Jump Kick doesn't even necessarily OHKO with Stealth Rock.

blarajan said:

It doesn't come close to OHKOing with Stealth Rock. Adamant Hi Jump Kick doesn't even necessarily OHKO with Stealth Rock.

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Damn. That being said, there still lies the 20% chance of a flinch and the ~5% chance of a critical hit. That means there's about a 17.1% chance that Mienfoo will lose. Also I forgot that Mienfoo run bulkier spreads now (like the one you proposed).

The main purpose for this set is to consistently beat Croagunk, not Mienfoo (which I should have made my original point but am now clarifying for future references).

Jansports said:

Darumaka @ Choice Scarf. Hustle!
Jolly; 116hp / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- U-turn

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Having tested this set myself, it is simply too unreliable. Darumaka is too frail, and in my experience, missing one time puts Darumaka out of the game permanently. I've discussed this set with a lot of the LC community, and the general consensus is "honestly, it could maybe situationally good in a tournament round or something, but it's not consistent enough to be used repeatedly, as this will lead to a lack of the ability to consistently win."

comatthew6 said:

How about we use a tried-and-true Pokemon that has been around all of BW and has proven itself to be one of the best all-around sweepers in the game? I'm talking about SCRAGGY:

Scraggy (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 36 HP / 156 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Crunch
- Zen Headbutt

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I could be wrong, but I believe the purpose of the CCAT is to use an inventive Pokemon or a familiar Pokemon in an inventive way. Scraggy is definitely still bog standard, and I know I would like to see a bit more in the way of innovation out of this CCAT.

Like comatt6, I would also like to suggest Scraggy. However, we've all used Dragon Dance thousands of times before, I'd like to try a different set. ScarfMoxie.

Scraggy @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Hi Jump Kick
- Crunch
- Head Smash
- Zen Headbutt

Whilst this isn't necessarily as dangerous as Dragon Dance, it is very useful at punching holes in the opposition earlier on, then possibly even sweeping late game thanks to moxie.
Basically the great thing about this Scraggy, is that it can 2HKO all of it's common switch ins, most notably Mienfoo who is 2HKO'd all the time by Hi-Jump Kick and the majority of the time by Zen Headbutt (All the time with rocks).
Of course this Scraggy has a high risk strategy but with good prediction it pays off and has the potential to be a great mon.

Yeah I agree with RayJay. DD Scraggy is a little too standard for my taste.

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Dwebble (M) @ Oran Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- X-Scissor
- Shell Smash
- Rock Blast


i understand this set looks really fucking odd but work with me. basically i am always looking for a good sr user that could kick some ass. so basically i took dwebble and though it has 2 viable sets. they both use the same spread and item and they both use 2 of the exact same moves. and then i made this set and it kicks some ass. its kinda odd to use at first but if you run it offensively, or act like its the standard hazard set it really kicks some ass


also its more original than everything else here besides restalk missy, but missy is old and not as fun to make a team around.

Umm, an unorthodox set i have here which is more on bulky offense than just 'bash everything to death with your strongest STAB' so on with the set i guess....

Nosepass @ Eviolite
EVs 236 Atk / 196 SDef / 40 HP / 36 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Fire Punch
-Earthquake
-Head Smash
-Rock Polish

Ok, the idea is simple, switch in with those awesome 20/18 defense stats, SP on their switch and proceed to spam the appropriate move with STAB headsmash while not hitting off the highest attack stat (14) is not something most would want to take, earth quake completes smashquake and fire punch is to give a warm welcome to bronzor, his defenses make it a challenge to revenge kill(STAB mach punch off the likes of max attack timburr which i dont think is very common is a 3HKO at best barring crit).

Stone edge could be used for recoil free STAB spam but at the cost of that infamous accuracy that seems to have it out for you.

But if a nosepass sweep isnt appreciated then how about a wall?

Nosepass @ Eviolite
EVs: 196 HP / 196 SDef / 76 Def / 40 SpD
Bold Nature
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Power Gem
-Volt Switch

Well, this seems strange but works wonders, rest gives it a second wind and sleep talk creates restalk which gives it something to do while dozing while power gem STAB hits natu who seem to be under the illusion you carry stealth rock while volt switch scouts switches, its hard to 3HKO nosepass let alone 2HKO it so this set is very effective hitting 22/23/18 without eviolite and 22/34/27 with it which is rather impressive(And all without two crippling x4 weaknesses, yeah im talking about you onyx.) Earth power can be used over sleep talk to hit the likes of chinchou and is missed on the set, however it can also replace volt switch since volt switch is just due to it being part of a volturn team though voltswitch is nice to scout switches, the stray speed EVs are to tie with frillish non invested and beat bronzor etc and so on.

EDIT: Pain split is also an option given its low HP but person experience tells me rest is generally better.

Elekid @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Atk / 236 Spe | 96 Atk / 160 SpA / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA) | Naive Nature (+Spe, -SpD)
- Wild Charge | Thunderbolt
- Ice Punch | Volt Switch
- Cross Chop
- Substitute

Elekid has kind of been forgotten this generation, but 20 Speed is still great, especially along with 16 Attack and excellent coverage. Elekid even got a new, better STAB move in Wild Charge, which gains a very welcome power boost. This lets its KO things that it otherwise couldn't, such as a guaranteed KO on Gastly after Stealth Rock, or Eviolite Clamperl. Ice Punch provides great coverage, only missing out on Magneton and Chinchou. Cross Chop completes the coverage, hitting things such as Magneton and Snover for the KO. Substiute is Substitute, prevents it from status and Scarfers, and also eases prediction.

il bitch about this more later but ice punch sucks without gligar. find a better move

Ice Punch still provides BoltBeam coverage, and hits Ground- and Grass-types. There is no better option.

Edit: yeah, that might be good. I think changes like that can still be made after selecting the Pokemon though, both physical and mixed sets work.

Ice Punch is terrible. It doesn't hit anything useful. Any Ground-type just kills you, and Diglett probably dies to Cross Chop lol. If you're going to use Elekid, use a mixed set; Elekid has better Special Attack (can invest less and get the same amount), plus Thunderbolt is stronger and doesn't come with recoil. You can probably use Volt Switch over Ice Punch for scouting and doing good overall damage.

^ second Tomahawk's set with the above changes ^

yeah yeah i might be overhyping axew a bit (i mean, i even took the effort of changing my avatar), but here it is:


Axew (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 68 HP / 220 Atk / 44 Def / 36 SDef / 140 Spd (thanks to prem for the spread)
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dual Chop
- Protect
- Outrage

It's pretty clear that this metagame will have less steels, which means axew will sweep more easily. 16 speed and 18 attack off the bat means it can dish out damage even when it doesn't get a chance to setup. Axew's pretty bulky too, with solid 22/18/15 defensive stats after Eviolite. Protect is for evading Fake Out and scouting (both for choiced mons, but also to check if e.g. chinchou carries ice beam) Dual chop is great for breaking subs/sashes/sturdy (mainly misdreavus's subs). Outrage is there because it's outrage. There's not much that can switch into a +1 outrage and live a second hit. (in fact, probably only bronzor and ferroseed can) And yeah, dragon dance is there because it's obvious.

Posting another mon:


Omanyte (F) @ Eviolite
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 36 Def / 200 SAtk / 236 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Earth Power

Being able to straight up 6-0 Litchi's main ladder team isn't the only reason i'm nominating Omanyte. With a Modest nature (timid can be used), it reaches a massive 38 Sp.Atk and 26 Speed after Shell Smash, while it can still take hits with it's high defense (17, after evio and -1, which cancel each other out) It OHKO's Mienfoo, Scraggy, offensive misdreavus, Murkrow, Tentacool, Snover, Croagunk and Chinchou. The only common things that can take one or two hits from it are Porygon, Bronzor and Ferroseed, which are all dealt with by a strong Fighting-type. I think the moveset is pretty obvious, HP grass could be used if you want to hit Staryu, but you'll lose to Croagunk and Chinchou. Furthermore, with Shell armor, crits can't fuck you up

ok time to post my pokemon: Larvesta


Larvesta (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 76 HP / 156 Atk / 76 Def / 76 SpD / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
~Flare Blitz
~Will-o-wisp
~U-Turn
~Morning Sun

After the banning of Gligar (one of Larvesta's best checks) this Larvesta can be a monster in the metagame. Most of Larvesta's counters are destroyed by repeated U-Turns and entry hazards (Munchlax, Wooper). Larvesta is also a solid check to Mienfoo without Stone Edge, and other Fighting types (he usually survives 2 +1 Crunches from an Adamant Scraggy and can take a huge chunk out of it with Flare Blitz). Flare Blitz is for obvious STAB, also the strongest move in Larvesta's arsenal. Will-o-wisp is for a more reliable burn than Flame Body, U-Turn is good for a secondary STAB and scouting. Morning Sun is great for recovering Flare Bitz recoil, SR damage, and etc.

I second Blara's Mienfoo set. Yes, partly because Mienfoo is my favorite pokemon, but Blara's set also really emphasizes the great qualities about mienfoo as one of the few bulky-offensive support mons out there. I think basing the CCAT around it will open up *loads* more viable team comp slots and just give the CCAT that much more discussion.

So I know we're not voting - but I was gunna put a mienfoo set up, and blara's is 20 times more interesting than my own.

Poj's missy set is absurdly powerful. It beats porygon reliably(if you consider pp stalling reliable). It does well against mienfoo and has the potential to beat non-crunching stunky. Missy sets up on a lot of he mons tht are becoming more popular. Its an overall great set

Sir said:

Poj's missy set is absurdly powerful. It beats porygon reliably(if you consider pp stalling reliable). It does well against mienfoo and has the potential to beat non-crunching stunky. Missy sets up on a lot of he mons tht are becoming more popular. Its an overall great set

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It can't really beat Porygon (especially if it has Charge Beam) but it can definitely PP stall if it needs to. But, again, if Porygon has Charge Beam and Shadow Ball she will probably lose.

I agree though, it is very powerful and can set up easily once Porygon, Murkrow, and Stunky are gone. Also Pawniard might be a problem but it's not very common.

Alright we should probs start voting...

Yeah I think this is more than enough time to get acquainted with the metagame. Unfortunately, I am going to be vetoing some sets outright, so if you don't find the suggestions you made here, please PM me and I will explain my reasoning.

Since we have so many suggestions, I'm going to ask for you to vote on your favorite TWO Pokemon. Put them both in bold, with your favorite on top and your second favorite underneath. I'll give the top votes two points and the second place one point to see what we go for.

The Nominees

SubPass Mienfoo
Life Orb Houndour
RestTalk CM Misdreavus
Life Orb Elekid <== We can finalize the slots if this is voted for
Dragon Dance Axew
Shell Smash Omanyte
Larvesta

Also, I want some justification for your votes. The CCAT is a way to bring the community together through discussion and teambuilding. It would be nice to have everyone's reasoning for their votes, to bolster discussion (not necessarily in this thread, but in general). You don't have to write paragraphs--sentences will suffice for the more lazy.

I will leave voting open until 11:59 PM EST April 12th. Please vote before that, but if you vote afterwards and I had neglected voting, I will still count it.