LC CCAT--I have to Axew a question (FINISHED)

I'd have preferred if nobody said the vote totals until I added them up myself to reduce bias in the voting. Obviously you can just add them yourself before voting, but needing to do so yourself reduces the likelihood of it getting done.

My votes:

Misdreavus - This is actually a really cool set. It would be cool to figure out how to get a sweeper to work when its biggest checks are three of the most common Pokemon in the metagame (Scraggy Porygon Murkrow)

SubPass Mienfoo - I believe the set I proposed will give us a lot of room to experiment in team building as we can experiment with a lot of different things when using the utility that Mienfoo brings.

agreeing with blarajan

Misdreavus - with Mienfoo on almost every team and one of the strongest physical attacks gone (Gligar), this set works great. Its main checks (Normal- and Dark-types) are both weak to Fighting-type attacks, so yo can pair it up with Mienfoo and wreck. Considering a lot of Misdreavus checks attack specially in fear of Will-O-Wisp, Calm Mind is really cool!

SubPass Mienfoo - In my opinion, this is currently one of the best sets in the game. Misdreavus + Mienfoo and Natu + Porygon are pretty common cores nowadays, and Mienfoo can beat them both with Substitute. Passing a sub to teammates is great if you have Pokemon that can check Mienfoo's checks. As a bonus, it can pass Substitute for free thanks to Regenerator.

And the votes are in! And the winner is Dragon Dance Axew!

Dragon Dance Axew -- 24
Larvesta -- 17
Calm Mind Misdreavus - 10
Shell Smash Omanyte - 8
SubPass Mienfoo - 6
Life Orb Elekid - 5
Life Orb Houndour -2

With that, our main CCAT Pokemon will be Axew! We can now begin state two of the CCAT, where we suggest teammates! So nominate our first teammate!

Here is the Axew for reference:

Scraggy (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Drain Punch

- Hi Jump Kick


so we can be lame and use something like magnemite that traps and kills those steels that take axews outrage so well, or we can be original and creative. im going to nominate ddance scraggy with life orb because it takes out literally everything that can get in the way of axew. mienfoo is ohkoed most of the time (all the time with sr) at +1, porygon gets wrecked, murkrow loses unless scarf, bronzor gets wrecked, list goes on. you guys might think it has difficulty setting up because of the lack of evio but honestly if played right it can still set up on a lot of stuff like staryu or chinchou. this thing is really fucking good at sweeping and breaking shit into little pieces, which in the long run will make axew have an easy sweep. its also original!


if there is enough bitching i guess we could use evio but lo so much better

Murkrow (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Insomnia
EVs: 244 Atk / 80 SAtk / 188 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Drill Peck
- Sucker Punch
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power Grass

I'd like to nominate Mixkrow as it lures in Steels expecting a Flying type move, then takes them out with Heat Wave. It can also serve as a counter to Croagunk who can revenge a weakened Axew really easily. Hidden Power Grass is my preferred last move as it can take out any Omanyte or Tirtouga switch-ins, who think they can set up on Murkrow. It still doesn't do notable damage to Chinchou though, but that doesn't matter as it lures Chinchou out so Axew can set up on it (Except Ice Beam variants, which are really rare.)
I suppose Brave Bird could be used instead of Drill Peck, but with life orb it will significantly shorten it's life span.

Lo murkrow really only beats up ferroseed. Bronzor switches in on drill peck and then 2hkos with hp ice after sr and lo recoil.

Something like lo scraggy is something i can vouch for. It's difficult to take out aside from a scarfer and i sets up on the steel-types tht axew cant beat

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't that EV spread for Axew give him 15 speed instead of 16?

youre right. originally chieliee had the 16 speed spread but then i said 16 speed is pointless because you arent outspeeding anything important when using 16 speed and you have more bulk which is useful against a sucker punch.

for murkrow id really say brave bird just because i hate not getting the kills i want. lo heat wave doesnt actually always 2hko bronzor either so i wouldnt say its the best lure but its a great pokemon at luring in bronzor.

prem said:

for murkrow id really say brave bird just because i hate not getting the kills i want. lo heat wave doesnt actually always 2hko bronzor either so i wouldnt say its the best lure but its a great pokemon at luring in bronzor.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that Heat Wave always 2HKO's Bronzor, as long as it is holding Life Orb. In any case, it can still severely weaken it for an Axew sweep which is useful as Bronzor doesn't have any recovery.

Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Return

I would like to suggest Charmander's Bulky Pony set (Charmander's sets are lovely, aren't they?). Axew's bad movepool limits him to Dragon-type moves, so we obviously need something to take care of steel-types. I think that this Bulky Pony will be better than an offensive one because it can survive longer and provide support with a fast Will-o-Wisp, potentially making it easier for Axew to set up on a physical attacker. The loss of power from the LO Pony isn't really that significant for the role that she will play; Ponyta can still OHKO Snover and probably Magnemite, and Bronzor/Ferroseed can't really do anything to Ponyta that will stop her from 2HKOing (except switching). Also, Ponyta and Axew have good synergy with each other. Ponyta can take on Snover and steel types for Axew, while Axew resists water attacks for Ponyta.

Idk about Scraggy... LO Scraggy is cool but this team is meant for Axew to sweep, not something else.

prem said:

Scraggy (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 212 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Drain Punch

- Hi Jump Kick

Click to expand...

I also think that this could be a good teammate, but I think we can possibly work with the moves a bit. For example, Larvesta and Shelmet both give Axew problems, and Scraggy could potentially use Head Smash. Of course, the set you have does seem like a very interesting option thus far, especially if we're shooting for innovation.

Sir said:

Lo murkrow really only beats up ferroseed. Bronzor switches in on drill peck and then 2hkos with hp ice after sr and lo recoil.

Click to expand...

This is factually incorrect, as it assumes Murkrow doesn't carry Heat Wave, which it does. No Bronzor is going to stay in to take 2 Murkrow Heat Waves, and even if it does, then Murkrow has done its job as a teammate and Axew now has a better chance to sweep.

Princess of Johto said:

Ponyta (F)
Jolly : Flame Body
36 HP / 156 Def / 76 SDef / 196 Spd
- Morning Sun
- Will-O-Wisp
- Flare Blitz
- Return

I would like to suggest Charmander's Bulky Pony set (Charmander's sets are lovely, aren't they?). Axew's bad movepool limits him to Dragon-type moves, so we obviously need something to take care of steel-types. I think that this Bulky Pony will be better than an offensive one because it can survive longer and provide support with a fast Will-o-Wisp, potentially making it easier for Axew to set up on a physical attacker. The loss of power from the LO Pony isn't really that significant for the role that she will play; Ponyta can still OHKO Snover and probably Magnemite, and Bronzor/Ferroseed can't really do anything to Ponyta that will stop her from 2HKOing (except switching). Also, Ponyta and Axew have good synergy with each other. Ponyta can take on Snover and steel types for Axew, while Axew resists water attacks for Ponyta.

Idk about Scraggy... LO Scraggy is cool but this team is meant for Axew to sweep, not something else.

Click to expand...

This is also a strong suggestion I feel, especially since the two dominant Steel-types are hard pressed to do anything to it. Notably, Ferroseed is useless, the most it can do is Leech Seed. Bronzor could potentially Earthquake, but Ponyta is unique in that it has recovery, so this problem is essentially neutered. It is also a good suggestion because, like Scraggy, it is not just a Steel-type switch-in. As soon as either LO Scraggy or this set switches into a Steel-type, the pressure is on the opponent as these Pokes can do more than just checkmate a Steel-type and do significant damage to the other team. This is why I believe a Pokemon such as Magnemite that has little utility outside of handling Steel-types is a poor choice.

In terms of your closing remark, I respectfully disagree--Axew is strong but it can always use a sweeping buddy. The team is around Axew, but we shouldn't limit ourselves to inferior options just because we want a solo Pokemon in the spotlight.

Life Orb Scraggy
Life Orb Murkrow
Bulky Ponyta

This is an incredibly important vote, and these are your options, since none of you contributed this time along D=. Keep in mind that the selection of this Pokemon will also dictate how the team is built from here, and what our options will be. You have until 11:59 EST 04/19/2012 to cast your vote. Only vote for one thing this time.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4188009&postcount=54

life orb scraggy BECAUSE ITS THE THING I PICKEd

Bulky Ponyta

At RayJay: What I said is certainly not factually incorrect. Murkrow switches in on rocks(it's now at 75%), and scares something out(say Mienfoo) and uses Brave Bird on Bronzor. Bronzor takes a little less or about 10%(Bronzor is now @86% while approximate ly 59% from Life Orb recoil and Brave Bird recoil). Murkrow proceeds to 2hko with Heatwave but losses itself in the process. Although Murkrow has done its job, so what? A one for one is certainly not ideal as it we'll have to work with 2 already members that are not very bulky. That is why I'm suggesting bulky Ponyta.

The pony gives us a good bulky mon that is able to check Steel-types in addition to dealing with the Grass-types of our tier. Murkrow is way too one dimensional and its lack of longevity should deter everyone from using it.

The problem I have with LO Scraggy on this team is that Scraggy isn't very bulky with Eviolite, and I feel that bulky offense is the way to go in this meta.

Bulky Ponyta

Major Cool Factor..... Oh yeah, and that thing about removing steel types

Bulky Ponyta looks like the best choice here to me. It does its job of removing steels which axew really needs, and i dont think anyone here wants to use magnemite, which loses to bronzor's EQ anyway. Scraggy checks steels too, i guess, but its such a ridiculously overused pokemon and also such a powerful sweeper that it would really take the spotlight off axew.

I like ponies.

Bulky Ponyta is an amazing mon that deserves more use (tbh i've never used it) It's really hard to play against, mostly because many things that would beat it just get fucked up by flame body.

yeah it also supports axew by eliminating steels while keeping offensive momentum.

Bulky Ponyta
It's a non-standard set but has definitely proven to be very useful this meta. It kills steels and Flame Body trolls U-turners as well as random physical hits that Ponyta can tank.

Bulky Ponyta

Whilst I did nominate Murkrow, I believe Ponyta is probably the better choice as not only does it eliminate steels, it can also beat Snover who is a problem. It also lures in Staryu and Chinchou, which Axew finds very easy to set up on usually.

Ponyta is cute!

Bulky Ponyta is my choice after some thought. Basically, Scraggy is in theory the best teammate so far but makes us limited in our other four slots too much. I would rather use Ponyta, who does a better job switching in to Axew's weaknesses (including Mienfoo, w/ Flame Body) as it has reliable recovery. Also, I have not seen Ponyta so much this meta and I believe if we attempted a FWG core we could really bring Axew out more than with either of the other two propositions.

In future rounds, voters should be more thoughtful. Virtually no discussion happened after voting was opened, which should not be the case as it encourages bandwagoning. This discussion should be thoughtful (not to single anyone out, but "It beats Steel-types let's do it" is probably inadequate and not really thought out, also keep in mind all three teammates nominated "beat" Steel-types) and allow people to defend their position rather than just posting once and being done with it. In future rounds, votes without reasoning may not be counted at blarajan's discretion.