Research Week #8 -Tauros, Pinsir, Floatzel, and Sneasel

I got to 1220 before getting haxed back down, but one thing I noticed about Tauros is its unpredictability. I run Sheer Force + LO, and it is often difficult for the opponent to figure out whether I am running CB or LO. This helps Tauros snag a crucial surprise KO or two.

Regarding Amarillo's post, special attacking is really not Tauros's forte. I prefer running a simple EQ / Rock Climb / Zen Headbutt / Rock Slide set with LO and Sheer Force, and it's been working pretty well. The important thing to consider when using Tauros is playing to its strengths. I think it is sort of mid-way between Cinccino and Kangaskhan - it is very fast with base 110 Speed, but is also moderately bulky with base 95 Defense and Intimidate [if you opt for the latter]. It is not too weak - Sheer Force + LO makes up somewhat for the absence of CB, so Kangaskhan doesn't completely outclass it there. And unlike Cinccino, it can take a priority move or two with ease - +2 Samurott only 2HKOes with Aqua Jet, Skuntank only 2HKOes with Sucker Punch, and even Absol needs a Swords Dance boost to OHKO, while Tauros OHKOes the latter two and 2HKOes Samurott.

Hm, i think i might jump on the tauros bandwagon and use one of those. But maybe not, idk. I do remember using it a long time ago and it wasnt that amazing, but hey, the metagame has changed since then.

I would like to contribute a little to the discussion of Floatzel. Alt: IcyAquaJet
Edit: Throwing in a Pinsir as well.

Alt: Fuck Heracross
Using: Pinsir

Having used all of these extensively in the past I've got to say they're all very strong threats in the right hands. A little indepth of two of my favorite pokes-

Tauros-

Tauros's most obvious set is purely offensive with SF+LO, and power to those that use it. I like the set, its very good but I think a substitute set is better.
Something like Sub-ZenHeadbutt/EQ-Rock Slide-Rock Climb is pretty damn great.
Zen Headbutt is preferred over EQ because of the LO recoil and because making subs is already taking away from your HP.

The reason to use a sub set is because Tauros DOES force switches first of all. Secondly, there are plenty of slow walls that will try and status tauros or throw off weak attacks that won't break the sub.

Floatzel-
Physical, Mixed, Special, you name it and Floatzel can do it with the right support.

You can invest in 252 atk/ 252 spA while under rain because Floatzel won't need any speed investments for the most part. Without any invest and a neutral nature you reach 532 speed.

Has plenty of moves, including STAB priority.
Crunch, Bulk Up, Waterfall, Aqua Jet, Brick Break, Ice Beam, Surf, Focus Blast, Pursuit, Rock Throw, Surf.

Using water veil, it can abuse a physical switcheroo and pass off flame orbs for a somewhat speed support set. Has taunt, switcheroo, roar, toxic, Aqua Ring, Baton pass, agility, etc.

I've been using Waterfall/Crunch/Ice Beam/HP Grass for a mixed set with rain dance support and goddamn its useful. All of those grass types such as amoongus that switch in thinking they can giga drain away are met with an ice beam that takes a huge chunk of HP away. Can't remember if its an OHKO or 2HKO but they stand no chance if they switch in.

Of the three i have been using, (pinsir, sneasel, and floatzel) sneasel and floatzel definately pull my team. I wont post their sets because im almost at 1250, and i want to post them just with that, but they have been total monsters. Especially late game, clearing out stuff like golem, magmortar, haunter, kangaskhan, the birds, zebstrika, and cinccino.

Unfortunately, I suck at internet and I cant post a screenshot of my ranking, but I am currently at 1259 under the alt "Pickaxe". Also, Pastebin sucks, so I'm just gonna post my team here. ;.;



Lead:
Monferno @Focus Sash
trait: Blaze
EVs: 52 Atk, 200 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Naive (+Spe -SpD)
-Stealth Rock
-Mach Punch
-Overheat
-Endeavor

Floatzel @Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
Evs: 4 hp, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
-Aqua Jet
-Waterfall
-Ice Punch
-Quick attack / Pursuit / Crunch / Low Kick

Sneasel @Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
Evs: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
-Ice Shard
-Ice Punch
-Pursuit
-Low Kick / Brick Break

Pinsir @Choice Band
Trait: Mold Breaker
Evs: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly (+Spe -SpA)
-X-Scissor
-Close Combat
-Earthquakes
-Stone Edge

Zebstrika @Choice Scarf
Trait: Lightningrod
Evs: 4 Hp, 252 SpA, 252 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA -Atk)
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt
-Overheat
-Hidden Power [Grass]

Swalot @Black Sludge
Trait: Liquid Ooze
Evs: 252 Hp, 60 Def, 80 SpA, 60 SpD, 56 Spe
Nature: Modest
-Toxic
-Sludge Wave
-Pain Split
-Encore


This team is great at weakening the opponant's pokes and simply selecting the appropriate guy to pick them off. The best at blowing holes being pinsir. Monferno is basically there to set up rocks and get a kill or two, depending on how they play it. Swalot is there to sponge stuff nobody else wants to take. With liquid ooze, he is able to adequitely take on tangela and gurdurr, as well as sawk not locked into Earthquake. His typing is fantastic defencively in NU and serves as weezing and SpD bulky muk combined. He is amazing at neither defence, but bad at neither. Having encore is also a plus. Everything else is there to kill off weakened and/or frail opponants. Sneasel takes on birds, fast grasses, and dragons, wheras floatzel deals with fire types and rock types. Zebstrika is kind of a middle ground, who outspeeds alot of major threats and eradicates them.

There isnt much that this team has problems with. The one bain of this existance is scarfed jynx, especially if zebstrika is dead or unable to take it down. Misdreavus can also be a problem if there is nothing left to take it out.


I will continue laddering and will post more to inform on any advancement.

Sneasel @Life Orb
Trait: Inner Focus
Evs: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant (+Atk -SpA)
-Ice Shard
-Ice Punch
-Pursuit / Night Slash
-Low Kick / Brick Break

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This looks standard nothing wrong...oh wait

Sneasel
-Pursuit / Night Slash

Click to expand...

A slash with pursuit okay...wait am I reading this right?

Sneasel
Night Slash

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When did Sneasel learn Night Slash?

alt: iObject
Pokemon: Tauros

alt: JRP
Pokemon: Pinsir

Feel like giving both of these gents a shot.

Might end up using them together for all I know xD

Can't get it to post. Pasted it into the image insert thing, won't work, inserted it into [/ IMG] didn't work.

[url]http://s1055.photobucket.com/albums/s503/Graceclaw2/?action=view&current=BronzeTauros.png[/url]

Bronze class. I'll try for a higher one later, but this one alone took me way too long >.> Hax ftl.

I don't know how to do the fancy dropdown where people click to see, but here's my team:

Tauros (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Retaliate
- Stone Edge
- Frustration


Pinsir (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- X-Scissor
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake


Marowak (M) @ Thick Club
Trait: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Double-Edge


Regirock @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic
- Rest
- Rock Slide


Jynx (F) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Shadow Ball


Togetic (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Psycho Shift
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Grass Knot

Obviously an offensive team, with Pinsir ripping holes at the first opportunity (I'm going to try changing his item to lefties since he takes rocks damage and expert belt probably doesn't make a huge difference, but against Tangelas it does)

Marowak does ridiculous damage after setting up SR, and if you keep him around til later can serve as either death fodder to bring in a Retaliating Tauros or as a super powerful hitter (nobody expects Double Edge, they always expect EQ).

Tauros is an amazing revenge killer, provided you either predict well or eliminate Tangelas, Rocks, Steels, and Ghosts. Not very hard with the correct support. Once he's unleashed, he's unstoppable. Even after you use the first 210 BP Retaliate it still hurts, though for late game cleanup Frustration is the better choice.

Togetic is an unlikely poke, but reaches 400+ both defenses with this spread and catches stupid Quagsires by surprise with Grass Knot. I hate Quagsire. Go die. I'm probably going to change Psycho Shift for Toxic, because there were several times when I wanted it, and toxic's usually the most useful status to shift anyways. I love my Togetic <3

Regirock exists to spread status. Most people don't expect one carrying Toxic to also carry t-wave, and it has saved me from countless fast sweepers and revengers like Absol. He also tanks both physical and special hits, though mainly exists for opposing Jynxes and Cryogonals. Jynx is my standby scarfer. If I need a scarfer, I usually look to Jynx. Energy Ball to eliminate pesky Quags, dual STAB, Shadow Ball for Psychics (mainly filler tbh), and a great Sp Atk and speed stat make it my favorite scarfer in NU. Oh and its ability aint half bad either :)

So yeah that's the team. A good example of Pinsir tearing it up can be found here:

[URL]http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Pooge-vs-Promenade--2012-04-24[/URL]

Could have been a much easier battle, but I some fun at the end trying to kill the Tangela, even though I could have easily KO'd it and been done >:). It shows how Pinsir is a badass :)

I haven't been able to play much yet, but in the few matches I did have Tauros has definitely already proven its worth. I'm running sort of a semi-offensive team alongside a physical LO Sheer Force set with Work Up, which so far has been doing very well.

Dangerous said:

Also, can someone explain to me what 'earning a spot in the Hall of Fame' does exactly?

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Anyone? And where can I take a look at it?

Dangerous said:

I haven't been able to play much yet, but in the few matches I did have Tauros has definitely already proven its worth. I'm running sort of a semi-offensive team alongside a physical LO Sheer Force set with Work Up, which so far has been doing very well.


Anyone? And where can I take a look at it?

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I think it's just mostly for bragging rights, but you do get awarded with temporary status on the IRC channel if you win the whole thing.

So I've tried the banded Floatzel and a Swords Dance Pinsir a little and I think they work pretty well together. Pinsir can tear huge holes in my opponents team and Floatzel usually seal their fates with a hell of powerful Aqua Jet. I've tried a rain dance set too but it failed to take out a Furret once so I kinda gave up on that (would have killed if I had LO but I was still dissapointed). Floatzel is very frail so if you can't take out the opponent you are likely to lose it.

I really want to see how everyones Sneasels are doing. I love using his older brother in UU. :)

If I lose my next battle, I'm gonna go insane. One before silver class...

Anyway, onto my RW Pokemon, Tauros. I must say, it's an absolutely brilliant Pokemon. I've tried loads of sets (except for the Specs set in that dude's RMT (shudder), and the mixed Work Up set with Fire Blast, which I wouldn't touch with a 9 foot pole). Sub with Lefties, CB, Choice Scarf, both Sheer Force and Intimidate, you name it, I've tried it. However, the set that I like the most is the standard one, with Sheer Force, LO, a Jolly nature and rock climb, rock slide, zen heabutt and earthquake. The reason? it's simply a powerful, very fast, and surprisingly sturdy powerhouse. The fact that it has all three of power, speed and bulk make it a very attractive option for any offensive team. I basically threw Tauros onto my standard team in place of cinccino and haven't looked back. While cinccino may me that tiny bit faster (admittedly outspeeding serperior and positive base 100s if adamant is nice), but the extra power and bulk make it imo a superior pokemon. Sheer Force with LO is a brilliant combination, making Rock Climb a truly devastating attack, even better than Tail Slap. Fun fact: Tauros' bulk means that it can survive TWO mach punches from an unboosted gurdurr. Now that's more like it.

EDIT: yep, I lost against some stupid Duosion guy. He was rude too. Current rank is 1296 :(

So I used the alt [Nu] Xantos RW8 and [Nu] Xantos RW8.1 And finally got 1250 after losing everytime I got to 1210. I'lly try and get 1300 tonight but If I drop below 1200 again I'll just be giving up for this week.

Edit : Got to 1309 Which Is almost a personal peak.

Your rank in Standard NU is 14/6521 [1309 points / 65 battles]!

Gorebyss (M) @ White Herb Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Bug]
Exeggutor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SAtk / 96 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Psychic
- Leaf Storm
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis
Golem (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Sucker Punch
- Stealth Rock
Gurdurr (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Mach Punch
- Bulk Up
- Payback
Magmortar (M) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Vital Spirit
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
Tauros (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Zen Headbutt
- Frustration
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

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Turns out Tauros is an amazing partner for Gorebyss being able to outspeed and kill common scarfers that would revenge byss with ease. And Gurdurr is solid as ever, like seriously I don't know why I don't see more of him.

I tried all the research mons at one point or another so here are my opinions.

Sneasel : I used a Band set and a "Lead" set both of which didn't really do much. Fake Out / Ice Shard are nice for revenging stuff but the Band set was really bad when I used it. Basically he was just too frail, especially since I kept facing Gurdurr when laddering.

Floatzel : Loved him. Band was nice , Life Orb was okay but what I really loved was the passing Bulk Ups and Subsitutes to stuff which just the team at the time wreck but after a string of loses I scrapped the team completely and moved onto the next alt.

Pinsir : I used him a lot in Round 0 so he was the one who I used the least. I've seen a few sets that have been used but I think bluffing a Scarf is the best sort of set he can run. Mold Breaker means not even Haunter if a safe switch in. But again Gurdurr is pretty much a full stop even if he resists Gurdurr's stab. It was actually one of the reasons I adopted Gurdurr onto my team. He can set up Rocks quite well as well being one of the few none rock users of the move.

Tauros : I've used a lot more Tauros sets than anything else. I did try Special Tauros as a joke but dumped it rather quickly when I decided I liked Tauros. Sheer Force + Life Orb was able to deal a lot of damage to teams but was often beaten cause it just missed out on a kill. Band was good as a minor revenge killer but I felt it was getting outsped too much and so I came to the Scarous. He is still used as revenge killer but he can outspeed things like Electabuzz , Rotom-S etc that all want to revenge Byss and think they can just Volt Switch on Tauros and KO them. It surprised Limi enough times that I decided to keep it on the team.

TropiOUs said:

This looks standard nothing wrong...oh wait

A slash with pursuit okay...wait am I reading this right?

When did Sneasel learn Night Slash?

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Oops, fixed that little blemish. I was going on the assumption it got it cuz weavile does and figured it might be a good slash.

I've gotten around to testing two of the Pokemon I promised to use and they performed exactly how I expected them to. Neither Tauros or Floatzel overwhelmed the opposition, but they were solid in their specific roles. Every one of them had their fair share of advantages and disadvantages. Below are the sets I used and what my opinions were of each Pokemon.



These were simply my observations while using the above Pokemon. Honestly, I didn't put in as much effort during this Research Week so some of my statements may be incorrect.

Super-duper late joining gogogo

Alt: SupaaaPowaaa
Pokemon: Tauros and Pinsir

super late as well but hey

Alt: Olmeca

Pokemon: Pinsir, probably others...

Gonna try a double dragon strategy with SD Pinsir and RP Armaldo.

Haven't played that much but I made it at least to bronze with almighty Sneasel and Pinsir, will try to get higher before this ends.

Last one is mostly a gimmick one turn use to fuck golem and preventing rocks while still being able to switch moves. And the leftovers 4 being mostly in sp.Def is something that DW made me paranoid about giving download pokemon attack boost.

Most Floatzel's so far have been all out offensive types so I wanted to try out something different.

[SET]
name: Lure
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Switcheroo
move 3: Baton Pass
move 4: Waterfall
item: Flame Orb
ability: Water Veil
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

I'm not exactly sure what a Lure is but this support set is made to cripple many of Floatzel's regular checks and counters (The Flame Orb also makes it appear like you're choice locked if you decide to attack instead of using substitute). Support from pokemon like Lightning rod Raichu and Sap Sipper Sawbuck is recommended.

This Floatzel set is generally made to come in on the revenge on the likes of Magmotar, Golem, Regirock etc... With it's great speed it excels at revenging.

Set up a Substitute as your opponent switches in a counter like Tangela, at this point you have two options, Baton Pass to Sawsbuck and get a free sap Sipper boost while being behind a substitute or just cripple Tangela by stealing it's evolite and giving it a flame orb.

Other common Switch ins to Floatzel are Samurott which is crippled by flame orb. Rotom-s as long as its not scarfed you can baton pass to Raichu, if it is scarfed just set up another substitute as volt switches out.

As long as you have grass and electric immune pokemon on your team. Common Floatzel switch ins will have difficulty. Most Physical Attackers Not Guts boosted or a Fire Type won't appreciate the Flame orb and Unless you're really gutsy, fire types won't be switching in.

Even if you you trick the flame orb to the wrong pokemon, Evolite using NFE pokemon are almost on basically every team in the tier and Floatzel can easily cripple them by stealing their evolite, most notibly Tangela and sometimes the odd Misdrevus as you can easily switch into will-o-wisp without fear. After Floatzel has done it's job it's still a great revenger with it's great speed and decent power.

Floatzel does have it's flaws, if you can predict this set, Swellow easily counters it as it doesn't mind receiving a flame orb while crippling Floatzel with a toxic orb. Swellow can then out speed Floatzel by breaking it sub with u-turn or just out right attacking it but waterfall from Floatzel does lower Swellow's Longevity.

Water Immune pokemon, most notiby Jynx is immune to it's stab and being a special attacker doesn't mind the flame orb but your opponent has the advantage being behind a sub that can be baton passed to something that can threaten or directly counter Jynx (ie Magmotar)

Ludicolo has a quad resist to Floatzel's stab and doesn't mind the burns generally being a special attacker. Becareful about using grass type moves if Sawbucks is in the wings but ice beam should be enough to break Floatzel's sub

Cinccino can be a last minute check and come in on the revenge and take out Floatzel behind it's sub with bullet seed but it's all up to luck because Cinccino is in a speed tie with Floatzel.

Although Guts Gurdurr and Magic Guard Duosion don't mind the flame orb, they are disadvantaged by the loss of their evolite.

Alt: TrolLinoone

Testing: Sneasel & Floatzel

I've always loved Floatzel, I prefer a set something like this:

Floatzel @ Choice Band
Trait: Water Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe

-Waterfall
-Aqua Jet
-Crunch
-Switcheroo

I do miss Ice Punch, as I chose Switcheroo over it, but it's worth it to get Water Veil. While this may seem slightly odd to choose Water Veil, it works excellently in tandem with Switcheroo, as I can Choice an unsuspecting Misdreavus into Will-O-Wisp. Switcheroo is also great for crippling switch-ins, or just getting rid of Choice Band. Waterfall and Crunch attain perfect neutral coverage in the tier, and Aqua Jet makes for stab priority.

Sneasel I haven't tried before, but I can see it's fairly good. I'm going to see if I can make a creative set for it.

Don't expect me in the Hall of Fame!

finally... reached... SILVER CLASS!!!

EDIT: Interestingly enough, the image in hide tags shows me at a higher ladder position, but a lower CRE, while the one I've not hidden is the opposite.

Pinsir is a pretty cool mon. Although I really wish it was faster, SD is a top notch set. Although I seldom am able to get up SDs in the first place, when I can, it becomes quite fearsome. With it in my team, I've made it past bronze (by one whole point!).

Also, suggesting Regice for the next round. It's a really neat mon.

I'm surprised to see people in this thread saying they don't see Tauros too often. Tauros hunts me to the end of the earth. Every game I'm in, there's a Tauros. I haven't had a Tauros-free WiFi battle in something like a 7-game streak now. He haunts my dreams. I went to RU for a game....Tauros was there.