NU Stage 5 - Suspect Discussion

Just chiming in here that Ditto is nowhere near broken. Let's ignore that tidbit about how all these Sub users and bulky boosters beat it, and say you have all-out offensive teams that just spam offensive moves. (Which, by the way, is probably one of the best matchups ditto will have) It's still a revenge killer. It can't counter any of the offensive threats you mentioned because it can't switch into them. Even something weaker like Cinccino Bullet Seed or Zangoose Night Slash is going to do a ton. Oh, and trying to revenge Zangoose is basically putting your momentum away because Zangoose Facade without Toxic is really, really weak, and non-STAB CC isn't much better. Trying to revenge stuff like SD Absol? Have fun with sucker punch predictions. Really, very little setup mons get beaten by Ditto in NU, bar Smash Gorebyss.

I'll write up a big post coming up soon summing up my opinion on other things.

Ditto is another Pokemon that I have little experience with, but from the time I used it earlier this round I can say that I didn't find it broken at all. Like almost every other Pokemon we've discussed so far, Ditto can be defeated with decent prediction skills. Sometimes you don't even really have to be good at predicting to beat it, as all of its moves have 5 PP, one of which it's going to be locked into if the opponent is running Choice Scarf (which most people are going to be doing).
The best case scenario for a Ditto: One of the opponent's Pokemon has been defeated, they send out Gorebyss and Smash to +6, you sack a 'mon and send out Ditto, steal Gorebyss's boosts, OHKO it, and attempt to OHKO the remainder of your opponent's team (all the time praying that they don't have an immunity to the move you're locked into). Yeah, definitely (not) broken.

• Amoonguss: I think we all know that, like Dugtrio and Gastrodon, that it's going to shoot up to OU.
• Zangoose: Nothing can safely switch in--it has no counters. Out.
• Cincinno: I'm on the fence with this. Once people realize that running LO, instead of CB is a bad idea, he might be banned. However, from the way that things are going, its just a less-powerful Zangoose. Things like Swellow can outspeed it anyways.
• Golurk: Golurk, like Victreebel, seems to be the NU mon that can be effective in any tier that it's in. It's not like Golurk doesn't have a boatload of counters / checks, either.
• Alomomola: Can't believe that people want it gone.

I'd just like to start off this post by saying that the metagame is really fun right now. "New" threats such as Cinccino and Amoonguss have definitely made the metagame adapt which allows people to come up with unique ways to counter them. For example, Rocky Helmet has become a good option to ruin any Cinccino while Sap Sippers such as Miltank and Zebstrika can easily get boosts from Spores. Now onto the individual pokes.

#1 Amoonguss - This has become one of the premier walls in NU because of Regenerator. Even though Amoonguss may be annoying, it is by no means broken. It's 100% accurate Spore can easily cripple a pokemon, but afterwards, Amoonguss can be set-up fodder for many pokes such as SubCM Gardevoir, SubSD Lickilicky, KLANG, and many other substitute users. Because of pokemon like these, Amoonguss can actually be a hindrance for the user. It does a great job of walling pokemon such as SD Samurott or even Absol, but it is not worthy of being banned.

#2 Alomomola - This pokemon is very similar to Amoonguss bar the fact that she walls a bit better due to Wish+Protect but she's even bigger set-up fodder for many pokes due to Toxic being her main way of damaging opponents. Alomomola also lacks a sleep-inducing move which is one thing that makes Amoonguss as good as it is. Alomomola is still a great wall, but is certainly not broken enough to be banned.

#3 Zangoose - This pokemon can easily devastate teams with his massive power. He can OHKO and 2HKO almost everything in the tier with his hard-hitting Facade, but just like his fellow Orbed pokemon like Swellow and Ursaring, he is worn down easily. With smart switching and priority, Zangoose can be easily taken down. He also doesn't have the highest speed in the world so all scarfers and pokemon such as Cinccino and Haunter can outspeed and KO. Quick Attack does make Zangoose a bit harder to take down, but many frail pokes can still take a Quick Attack. This pokemon is definitely a powerful one, but it is not broken.

#4 Cinccino - This litte fluffball is a menace due to its 125 base power moves. It is one of the best late-game cleaners due to its wide coverage but many pokemon can still take a hit from it and retaliate. Rocky Helmet has become a common item in NU to destroy Cinccino as it takes away 5/6 of Cinccino's health when it uses a multi-hit move (iirc). Cinccino also wears it down through LO recoil, but not as much as Zangoose, so smart switching can destroy Cinccino. For example, Cinccino would use Bullet Seed on a Carracosta, but you predict that and go into Sap Sipper Zebstrika. Now you have taken momentum, have gained an attack boost, outspeed and KO Cinccino with a move of choice. This is just one of many scenarios you can put yourself in against Cinccino. Cinccino is very good but not broken.

#5 Golurk - Finally, this mecharobot packs a punch and has made Spikes Stacking a formidable playstyle in NU since Golurk beats most spinners one on one. Even outside of spinblocking, Golurk can be a big threat. CB Punches boosted by Iron Fist and CB Earthquakes are nothing to mess around with. Only select few pokemon (Weezing, Tangela, and Alomomola), can take these attacks repeatedly. Golurk can also support his team by setting up Stealth Rocks and hax opponents to death with No Guard DynamicPunch even though it is outclassed by Iron Fist. Golurk even has three immunities (Normal, Electric, and Fighting). Even though Golurk has all these perks, Golurk is not broken. His low speed and weaknesses to common attacking types allow him to be taken down easily. Many teams have multiple immunities and resistances to his moves so good prediction or Protect can allow Golurk to get walled quite easily. Golurk is an amazing pokemon in its own right, but it has many weaknesses that can be easily exploited.

This NU metagame is the best metagame imo right now, and more people should try playing it.

With the community input, the Senate has decided that the Pokemon that will be suspected are Amoonguss, Cinccino, and Zangoose. Pokemon-specific suspect threads will be posted shortly, so be sure to detail your opinions on each suspect and provide arguments there.