Offensive rain
Hello! After a long break from pokemon, I'm back to playing (almost exclusively OU). For the second time, I am yoshinator879, long time lurker of the smogon community, and I've decided that I want to post a RMT, so here we go.
The team at a glance:
Team building process:
So, after messing around with some of the new toys from BW2, I decided that I was actually going to make a serious team. I had heard that Tornadus-T and Dugtrio made an excellent offensive core in the rain, so I decided to try it out. I decided to run a substitute 3 attacks set on Tornadus-T, because, with its excellent speed, it's going to be forcing many switches. Also, 3 moves are really all you need when it comes to coverage. In fact, Hurricane and Superpower are really all you need. As for Dugtrio, I don't really remember what I used; I think it was also a sub 3 attacks variant. Anyways, the team looked like this:
And, of course, I needed my awesomesausetastic drizzle-mon, Politoed. I decided to run a choice scarf set, for two reasons: 1. nobody expects it. It's so easy to come in on a resisted hit, or after a U-turn, and just kill something. The sheer surprise value of this set is excellent. 2. I never really understood the value of the defensive set, because, while none of Politoeds stats are actually impressive, at least with the choice scarf it can surprise and revenge opponents. Thus, the team looked like this:
Now, I, personally, have never had an excellent time with Ferrothorn, I found it hard to keep alive, and found it often being dead weight on my team. However, since I was running a dedicated rain team, I decided that if I was going to seriously try it, now should be the time. Here's how the team looked at that point:
Now, being lazy and not really sure what to do with the rest of the team, I decided just to slap a volt-turn core that I had had a lot of success with in the past, Rotom-W and Scizor. Obviously the Scizor was choice banded. It does massive damage with U-turn, and revenges nicely with Bullet punch, and can even clean up with Bullet punch if the enemy's team is sufficiently weakened. As for Rotom-Wash, I decided on the scarfed variant. Why? Well, again, nobody really expects it; most people expect the bulky set. Also, it's just an excellent revenge killer and (very) late game sweeper, with bolt-beam and hydro pump. It also does a very nice job of crippling things with Trick. So the first version of the team was this:
Now, there's a lot of obvious problems. First of all, I have a hard time dealing with sand, which is a really common problem among rain teams, I always seem to manage to lose Dugtrio before it can trap my opponents Tyranitar, and besides, most people are running Hippowdon nowadays. Wanting to maintain a physical ground-type on my team, but wanting something that could dominate in the sand, I decided to swap Dugtrio for a Scarfed Landorus. This also dealt with another problem for my team, which was that +1 dragons absolutely wrecked my team late-game. With it's 101 base speed, and access to U-turn, and awesome ability in Sand force, scarfed Landorus was an excellent addition to my team, not only for adding to my volt-turning core, but also dealing with my large Sandstorm weakness. The team looked like this:
But now, there was another problem, I was still finding Ferrothorn to be a dead weight during my battles. While it was certainly incredibly useful in many scenarios, it was just kind of useless in a majority of my matches. In my opinion, at that point, the value of another pokemon on the team outweighed the potential value of Ferrothorn. And thus began a long, long chase to find a pokemon to fit into that slot. I wanted a fighting resist, a spinner, and a pokemon to set up Stealth rocks. Unfortunately, no such pokemon exists (well, Claydol). I tried Celebi, Jirachi, and Deoxys-D. After that, I decided that I would just try pokemon I see frequently on rain teams, Toxicroak. But even that didn't fit very well into the team. During this time, I changed Landorus from a physical choice-scarf set, to a sheer force abusing sub-LO set. I also swapped U-turn for Grass knot on Tornadus-T. Then, I tried Starmie. Due to Starmie's excellent coverage, fighting resistance, and access to Rapid Spin, starmie has played a great role on my team. This is why the team looks, as it did when I first posted the team, like this:
Then, I posted the RMT, and I got tonnes of super helpful criticism from fellow Smogonites. The first thing I decided to try testing out, was another shot at specially defensive Jirachi (recommended by Shining Latios) on the team. It was there so that I could combat DDing dragons, and in order to get stealth rocks up. I decided to put it in the place of Starmie, since I still wasn't entirely sure it (Starmie) was the best Pokemon for the team. It was also recommended (by Electrolyte) that I try out a scarfed Latios in the place of Rotom-W, because he didn't think that Rotom-W really fit on the team. Electrolyte also made me realize that Rotom-W and Politoed have almost identical sets and purposes on the team. Thus, the team looked like this:
After testing this for a while I found two things: First of all, Jirachi was kind of dead weight on the team, because of how I played it. It was certainly extremely useful to have a special wall on the team that could set up Stealth rocks and spread paralysis so easily, but I just didn't find that it fit very well with the team. The other thing that I found was that Latios was not a fit either. I found that it was walled easily, and didn't have as good coverage as I'd like. I decided that I needed to replace both of them. Thankfully, I had two pokemon in mind. Neliel Tu Oderschvonk had recently recommended that I try a choice scarfed Thundurus, to deal with dragons, and to have a more diverse revenge killer, while maintaining the volt-turning that Rotom-W had provided. The second pokemon I wanted to try was Keldeo. I decided that a scarfed one should replace Jirachi on the team. So, the team looked like this:
This team actually worked really well. However, Leftiez pointed out (at about the same time that I finally noticed) that I had quite a Rotom-W weakness. He recommended a LO Latias to deal with it. On the other hand, Leftiez also recommended that I swap Substitute (on Tornadus-T) for sleep talk, so that I could deal with Breloom, another pokemon this team has trouble with. However, I find substitute far too useful to get rid of. So help me out, how do YOU think I can deal with Breloom on this team? Anyways, the team now looks like this:
An in-depth look:
Hello! After a long break from pokemon, I'm back to playing (almost exclusively OU). For the second time, I am yoshinator879, long time lurker of the smogon community, and I've decided that I want to post a RMT, so here we go.
The team at a glance:
Team building process:
So, after messing around with some of the new toys from BW2, I decided that I was actually going to make a serious team. I had heard that Tornadus-T and Dugtrio made an excellent offensive core in the rain, so I decided to try it out. I decided to run a substitute 3 attacks set on Tornadus-T, because, with its excellent speed, it's going to be forcing many switches. Also, 3 moves are really all you need when it comes to coverage. In fact, Hurricane and Superpower are really all you need. As for Dugtrio, I don't really remember what I used; I think it was also a sub 3 attacks variant. Anyways, the team looked like this:
And, of course, I needed my awesomesausetastic drizzle-mon, Politoed. I decided to run a choice scarf set, for two reasons: 1. nobody expects it. It's so easy to come in on a resisted hit, or after a U-turn, and just kill something. The sheer surprise value of this set is excellent. 2. I never really understood the value of the defensive set, because, while none of Politoeds stats are actually impressive, at least with the choice scarf it can surprise and revenge opponents. Thus, the team looked like this:
Now, I, personally, have never had an excellent time with Ferrothorn, I found it hard to keep alive, and found it often being dead weight on my team. However, since I was running a dedicated rain team, I decided that if I was going to seriously try it, now should be the time. Here's how the team looked at that point:
Now, being lazy and not really sure what to do with the rest of the team, I decided just to slap a volt-turn core that I had had a lot of success with in the past, Rotom-W and Scizor. Obviously the Scizor was choice banded. It does massive damage with U-turn, and revenges nicely with Bullet punch, and can even clean up with Bullet punch if the enemy's team is sufficiently weakened. As for Rotom-Wash, I decided on the scarfed variant. Why? Well, again, nobody really expects it; most people expect the bulky set. Also, it's just an excellent revenge killer and (very) late game sweeper, with bolt-beam and hydro pump. It also does a very nice job of crippling things with Trick. So the first version of the team was this:
Now, there's a lot of obvious problems. First of all, I have a hard time dealing with sand, which is a really common problem among rain teams, I always seem to manage to lose Dugtrio before it can trap my opponents Tyranitar, and besides, most people are running Hippowdon nowadays. Wanting to maintain a physical ground-type on my team, but wanting something that could dominate in the sand, I decided to swap Dugtrio for a Scarfed Landorus. This also dealt with another problem for my team, which was that +1 dragons absolutely wrecked my team late-game. With it's 101 base speed, and access to U-turn, and awesome ability in Sand force, scarfed Landorus was an excellent addition to my team, not only for adding to my volt-turning core, but also dealing with my large Sandstorm weakness. The team looked like this:
But now, there was another problem, I was still finding Ferrothorn to be a dead weight during my battles. While it was certainly incredibly useful in many scenarios, it was just kind of useless in a majority of my matches. In my opinion, at that point, the value of another pokemon on the team outweighed the potential value of Ferrothorn. And thus began a long, long chase to find a pokemon to fit into that slot. I wanted a fighting resist, a spinner, and a pokemon to set up Stealth rocks. Unfortunately, no such pokemon exists (well, Claydol). I tried Celebi, Jirachi, and Deoxys-D. After that, I decided that I would just try pokemon I see frequently on rain teams, Toxicroak. But even that didn't fit very well into the team. During this time, I changed Landorus from a physical choice-scarf set, to a sheer force abusing sub-LO set. I also swapped U-turn for Grass knot on Tornadus-T. Then, I tried Starmie. Due to Starmie's excellent coverage, fighting resistance, and access to Rapid Spin, starmie has played a great role on my team. This is why the team looks, as it did when I first posted the team, like this:
Then, I posted the RMT, and I got tonnes of super helpful criticism from fellow Smogonites. The first thing I decided to try testing out, was another shot at specially defensive Jirachi (recommended by Shining Latios) on the team. It was there so that I could combat DDing dragons, and in order to get stealth rocks up. I decided to put it in the place of Starmie, since I still wasn't entirely sure it (Starmie) was the best Pokemon for the team. It was also recommended (by Electrolyte) that I try out a scarfed Latios in the place of Rotom-W, because he didn't think that Rotom-W really fit on the team. Electrolyte also made me realize that Rotom-W and Politoed have almost identical sets and purposes on the team. Thus, the team looked like this:
After testing this for a while I found two things: First of all, Jirachi was kind of dead weight on the team, because of how I played it. It was certainly extremely useful to have a special wall on the team that could set up Stealth rocks and spread paralysis so easily, but I just didn't find that it fit very well with the team. The other thing that I found was that Latios was not a fit either. I found that it was walled easily, and didn't have as good coverage as I'd like. I decided that I needed to replace both of them. Thankfully, I had two pokemon in mind. Neliel Tu Oderschvonk had recently recommended that I try a choice scarfed Thundurus, to deal with dragons, and to have a more diverse revenge killer, while maintaining the volt-turning that Rotom-W had provided. The second pokemon I wanted to try was Keldeo. I decided that a scarfed one should replace Jirachi on the team. So, the team looked like this:
This team actually worked really well. However, Leftiez pointed out (at about the same time that I finally noticed) that I had quite a Rotom-W weakness. He recommended a LO Latias to deal with it. On the other hand, Leftiez also recommended that I swap Substitute (on Tornadus-T) for sleep talk, so that I could deal with Breloom, another pokemon this team has trouble with. However, I find substitute far too useful to get rid of. So help me out, how do YOU think I can deal with Breloom on this team? Anyways, the team now looks like this:
An in-depth look:
Tornadus-Therian (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature
- Hurricane
- Superpower
- Grass Knot
- Substitute
This thing is a beast. STAB Hurricane in the rain is just incredible. Paired with a blistering 121 base speed, great coverage in Superpower and access to substitute to essentially remove the need for prediction, this thing is incredible. Hurricane is the main move on this set, being incredibly powerful, is absolutely spammable. Superpower is for coverage, and it does an excellent job of it. Grass knot has replaced U-turn for two reasons: 1. Because this set, and team tends to have trouble with bulky waters, expecially Gastrodon and Quagsire, with Politoed's Hidden power grass being the only other move on the team to really hit them hard. The second reason is because of how I play this Pokemon. I rarely bring it in until very late-game, that is to say that I generally just use it to clean up, and so U-turn became seldom-used. Other than that, Substitute is very nice, and the ultimate tool when it comes to easing predictions. As for the EV spread, it's just maximizing Tornadus-T's special attack (for Hurricane and Grass knot), and speed, and dumping the rest into attack, so that Super power does as much as possible. Life orb and substitute are excellent together because of regenerator. Tornadus-T can come in on something it checks, us substitute, use Hurricane on something, switch out, and come back in later in the game at full (well, 99%) health. Tornadus-T is amazing.
Politoed @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Perish Song
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Ah, the old weather starter. Politoed is the pokemon that provides the glue of the team, permanent rain. That said, it should be obvious why this I chose to use it on my rain team. However, why would I pick the choice scarf set? As I mentioned earlier in the RMT, primarily for surprise value. You'd be shocked at how many times I've gotten free kills just for using a scarf-toed. Surf and Ice beam are obvious, but why Hidden power grass? I'm not going to run Hydro pump, when surf is available and doesn't miss, and so I'm left with this hole in my moveset. In my eyes, my only two real options were hidden power electric, and grass. I didn't see much merit to hidden power electric, because in the vast majority of cases, Surf would be the superior option, and so I went with hidden power grass, which has the ability to decimate water-ground types, such as Gastrodon and Quagsire. Perish song is as a sort of last resort, and to deal with things that stat up to +6, like Gothitelle, and is generally just a nice utility to have when the opponent has only a dedicated wall left. The EV spread is requires no explanation, as do the ability and item. The way that I play this set varies depending on the team that I'm facing. If my opponent has either a Hippowdon of a Tyranitar on their team, I bring in Politoed only when needed, and try not to reveal its choice scarf until I have an opportunity to end the weather war. However, if they aren't using a sand team, I bring Politoed out as soon as I can without damaging it, or the rest of the team, idiotically. Politoed is the glue to this team, and is better at it than some people will lead you to believe.
Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute
Special Landorus with substitute is an amazing Pokemon. Not only can it break stall like a beast, its three offensive moves providing incredible synergy and coverage together, but it can also wreck parts of offense. Earth power wrecks things with STAB, life orb, and Sheer force boosting its base power well above 200. Focus blast is for coverage, and also receives Sheer force and Life orb boosts, putting its base power also above 200. Hidden power ice may seem like an odd choice, considering it isn't boosted by Sheer force, and thus gives Landorus life orb recoil. However, its coverage is absolutely incredible, and thus I just can't give it up. Substitute is, like on Tornadus-T, to ease prediction, and to allow Landorus to avoid wasted attacks. The EVs, item and ability, are once again obvious. I try to use Landorus throughout the game, which means that I often switch on a Pokemon that can't threaten me, set up a substitute, attack something for massive damage, then switch out again. This strategy is excellent in that it weakens my opponents team to the point that I can more easily sweep with Tornadus-T later in the game. Landorus is an incredible pokemon, and play a huge role in the functioning of this team.
Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
Keldeo is an excellent revenge killer. With excellent 129 base special attack, awesome STABs, and superb 108 base speed, slap a choice scarf on it, and it's awesome. Keldeo's dual STAB, Hydro pump/surf and secret sword start off the set, allowing it to plow through things with a x2 (STAB and Rain) 120 base power move late game. While also allowing it to revenge without worry of missing. Secret sword is awesome, allowing it to demolish Blissey without an afterthought. Hidden power ice rounds off the set, allowing Keldeo to kill pesky +1 Dragons easily. Everything else on the set is pretty obvious, so now I'll talk about how I like to play it. First of all, I know that this is really similar to Politoed's set! I'm mostly just testing it out right now, and I need a scarfer with more than base 100 speed, so I wanted to try this. Anyways, this set is mostly just a revenge-killer and late game powerhouse. It can also work as a wallbreaker in the rain (hydro pump ftw). I am likely going to be changing this for something else in the future, I just don't know what, so help me out! =)
Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Superpower
Choice banded Scizor is incredibly powerful. With a terrifying base 135 attack, access to priority and STAB U-turn, it becomes obvious why Scizor has been one of the top pokemon in OU for the past two (three?) generations. Anyways, the exact set I'm using is very standard, so I won't go into too much detail about what it is. I often lead with Scizor, which may seem odd, which is exactly why it is effective. When I lead with Scizor, the opponent never expects it, giving me a free chance to U-turn at the beginning of the game, giving me free damage (as they switch), but also, much more importantly, momentum. That is, in general how this set is used, to gain momentum. This is especially easy to pull off considering Scizor's ridiculous list of resistances, meaning it can come in, use U-turn (getting free damage and momentum), and go from there, always putting me one step ahead of my opponent. Scizor has been at the top for ages, and for good reason.
Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Thunder
- Surf
- Recover
Ah, the old LO dragon, an asset to any team. Life orb Latias is great, with it's really solid special attack and speed, KOing things (especially weakened walls or sweepers) is not a problem. It can also take hits excellently, due to recover and it's excellent special defense Draco meteor is Latias' fallback move, and with STAB 140 base power, it's doing a lot of damage. Thunder and Surf are on this moveset to take advantage of the rain, and for coverage. Ferrothorn is the only thing in the game that resists Dragon-Water coverage, which means that Latias has a great time against any team. Thunder has an excellent 30% chance of paralysis, which allows the faster pokemon on my opponents team to be taken down much more easily. Recover rounds off the set, allowing Latias to stay around for a long time, constantly threatening my opponent. The rest of the set is self-explanatory, so I'll dive into how I like to play this set. I try to bring Latias in early in the game, letting it weaken my opponents team, also letting my scout out my opponent's counter for it (if they don't have a Ferrothorn). It's useful throughout the game against stall teams, but against offense, I primarily use it for scouting and weakening my opponent's team early game. Latias is awesome.
Conclusion
Against other offensive teams, this team thrives. With it's two choice scarf users, several powerhouses, and volt-turning combo, this team does not have a hard time with offense. With stall however, this team does have problems. With the lack of any hazards whatsoever on the team, and the lack of recovery moves, this team can be worn down by stall teams if outpredicted. Now what about the weather war? The thing is, other than Tornadus, this team doesn't rely on the rain to be up! It certainly benifits from it, but it isn't necessary to win the battle. With that, and the fact that Politoed has a surprise scarf set, in mind, this team doesn't need to win the weather war to win the battle. This means that while my opponent is super focused on keeping their Tyranitar alive, I can break down my opponents team.
In other news, I have small Breloom and Ferrothorn weaknesses, help me out! Thanks =)
Thank you for reading my RMT! I peaked at 91st place on the Pokemon Showdown OU(current) ladder with this team. Please help me improve the team, and yes, I know that this team is very Standard. Deal with it.
Thanks for reading!
