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General Doubles Metagame Thread
- Thread starter Pocket
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This is what I really enjoy about Doubles - there are so many moves with 0 value in Singles that can turn the tables in Doubles. Who would have thought of using Imprison in Singles? This move can be so gamebreaking, preventing the opponent from using common moves like Protect, Trick Room, Earthquake, etc, disrupting the opponent's plans while making your mission easier to execute.
Skill Swap, a move with no use in Singles, but a rad move in doubles, as elaborately explained by Level 51 and Darkmalice! Technician Mr. Mime in particular is an interesting Skill Swapper - Technician Mamoswine with Ice Shard / Icicle Spear anyone?!?! I had no clue Teeter Dance confused multiple users, either xd.
Bulky Skill Swappers are more consistent, imo. Darkmalice described how Cresselia can skill-swap its Levitate to Heatran, which is fucking cool. Also re-activating Intimidate with Skill Swap and weather are also interesting uses of this ability. NixHex has showed one of his VGC logs where he skill-swapped Ninetales's Drought to his Cresselia, who immediately summoned the sun back up! If the opponent changes the weather, Cresseli can simply skill swap Drought to the opponent or his partner to bring back Sun! NixHex was able to keep Sun up through out the game despite Ninetales getting knocked out earlier in the game!
And lol, Ally Switch! Imagine the opponent's frustration as Beheeyem and its partner switched positions xD Beheeyem's partner avoids a potentially lethal attack while staying on the offensive. The move has +1 priority so being slow is okay. Ally Switch is somewhat similar to Rage Powder / Follow Me in that it causes the opponent's moves to miss its target ;d.
Finally, Bummer has graciously blessed us with his manly logo skills! Check it out!
Victini riding a Cresselia~ two brawny intimidate users and Shaymin-Sky's head crest carved into the logo! Ty, Bummer for this amazing artwork!!! Bummer's logo is on the Leaderboard post, which I am working hard to update x0 Still in progress, so please be patient!
EDIT: ty, OVERGRO for catching my mistake, I'll fix this.
smaller so we can rock this as our avi's
Fixed that for you :D
terrakion is still wrecking shit up ._.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7902542
I pretty much built a team around beating terrak up and using an eject button to get support pokemon with follow me in there. I forget the guy's name who gave me the idea of using weavile with an eject button over whimsicott but it's working so far lol.
Also simple beam + quiver dance but this is far too hard to pull off:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7892024
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7902542
I pretty much built a team around beating terrak up and using an eject button to get support pokemon with follow me in there. I forget the guy's name who gave me the idea of using weavile with an eject button over whimsicott but it's working so far lol.
Also simple beam + quiver dance but this is far too hard to pull off:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7892024
I actually got swept by a Terracott earlier today. It Crit my Cresselia and proceeded to sweep, because I lack any Priority really, but that one just ruined everything.
why not both
Also, I've enjoyed watching the battle vids posted in this thread, so don't hesitate to share 'em. I've always been aware of the Double aspect from the games and whatnot, but to see it in serious practise is a sight to behold. I also like how more Pokémon are viable since they'll always have a teammate who can patch up their offense or defense, so it definitely looks like a fun meta.
I've made some changes on my team and it works as good or even better, I yet have to lose with it.
I'm now using Skill Swap Cresselia with Eruption Heatran. If there's an EQr, I first Protect + Icy Wind. Otherwise, Eruption + Skill Swap. Chople Berry makes Heatran hard to kill and Icy Wind slows down enemies, just awesome.
Landorus-T and Hitmontop as double intimidate is really good too, renders useless all non-defiant physical attackers.
I'm now using Skill Swap Cresselia with Eruption Heatran. If there's an EQr, I first Protect + Icy Wind. Otherwise, Eruption + Skill Swap. Chople Berry makes Heatran hard to kill and Icy Wind slows down enemies, just awesome.
Landorus-T and Hitmontop as double intimidate is really good too, renders useless all non-defiant physical attackers.
Bummer you're the bestest, also i got another battle for you to watch just cause I <3 youwhy not both
Also, I've enjoyed watching the battle vids posted in this thread, so don't hesitate to share 'em. I've always been aware of the Double aspect from the games and whatnot, but to see it in serious practise is a sight to behold. I also like how more Pokémon are viable since they'll always have a teammate who can patch up their offense or defense, so it definitely looks like a fun meta.
http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-smogondoubles7923518
the same team I posted earlier, just a few minor edits
played a fun match vs. Aura Rayquaza today.
In this match you will find:
In this match you will find:
- Both players taking advantage of Trick Room
- Gravity Wisps
- Burned Pokemon kicking ass
- Bulky Pokemon surviving insane double targeting (Musharna on turn 11)
- Chople Excadrill surviving Darkrai's Focus Blast
Yeah that was a great game. I have calced thast blizzard and because my manaphy was specs it didn't matter unless I got absolute minimum damage.
252SpAtk Choice Specs Manaphy (+SAtk) Blizzard vs 252HP/252SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef): 72% - 85% (278 - 328 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Zapdos was at 75%)
Anyways I had real fun with the game and gravity rules!
252SpAtk Choice Specs Manaphy (+SAtk) Blizzard vs 252HP/252SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef): 72% - 85% (278 - 328 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. (Zapdos was at 75%)
Anyways I had real fun with the game and gravity rules!
Wow! Beat Up on Justified Terrakion was really a sight see. Does your team have any Psych Up users to take advantage of the stat boost? Psych Up works through protect, so it shouldn't be too hard to scare the opponent into a free turn to use it.
Looking forward to seeing more battles from you.
By far my favourite tier :D Sigilyph has both tailwind AND gravity for those not wanting to (ab)use trick room. Sigilyph also has magic guard so you're sure not to have your sash broken if you have protect, just watch out for 2 attacks on you in the same turn.
edit: Whimsicott can offer terrakion tailwind so that it isn't outsped, you can still use eject button.
turn 1: terrak protect, whimsicott tailwind
turn 2: whimsicott beat up (outspeeds with 252+ speed), terrak uses attack
I like quick guard on terrak too (for priority) as whimsicott can charm the revenger etc, however with EQ you can use eject button (but no sash on whimsicott is very risky... still has beat up though)
edit: Whimsicott can offer terrakion tailwind so that it isn't outsped, you can still use eject button.
turn 1: terrak protect, whimsicott tailwind
turn 2: whimsicott beat up (outspeeds with 252+ speed), terrak uses attack
I like quick guard on terrak too (for priority) as whimsicott can charm the revenger etc, however with EQ you can use eject button (but no sash on whimsicott is very risky... still has beat up though)
I compiled a list of 58 Smogon Doubles battles posted in this thread. There were a few which I didn't post due to being a blah battle or being against a crappy ladder opponent. I'll keep this list updated as people post more battles. This chronicles the growth of the Smogon Doubles metagame from its humble roots to its current state.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles7999723
A funny replay showing an amoonguss that wouldn't faint, shows the power of the rage powder + sitrus berry combination for double targetting.
In hindsight I realised I should have protected with archeops as I switched out aerodactyl for amoonguss as it has more immediate power.. but otherwise this is rather funny.
edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8000173 You will NEVER have expected what happens in the first turn... so much for a fake out from scrafty LOL. here, you can also see the power of absorb bulb ludicolo + support politoed with helping hand... probably going to be banned from doubles (drizzle + ss)
edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8001092 omg lol, i made so many misplays, so. many. And somehow I still won because my opponent made a very very critical misplay, LMAO battle.
A funny replay showing an amoonguss that wouldn't faint, shows the power of the rage powder + sitrus berry combination for double targetting.
In hindsight I realised I should have protected with archeops as I switched out aerodactyl for amoonguss as it has more immediate power.. but otherwise this is rather funny.
edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8000173 You will NEVER have expected what happens in the first turn... so much for a fake out from scrafty LOL. here, you can also see the power of absorb bulb ludicolo + support politoed with helping hand... probably going to be banned from doubles (drizzle + ss)
edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8001092 omg lol, i made so many misplays, so. many. And somehow I still won because my opponent made a very very critical misplay, LMAO battle.
My first contribution to this thread:
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8004988
Once his Politoed went down, it was basically gg.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8004988
Once his Politoed went down, it was basically gg.
All you have to do is kill Politoed.
I ran into a good Hail Team using Offensive Latias, Cobalion, and Kyurem. Killed my Ninetales right out and I had nothing to answer it after that.
Sir lags a lot vs. Pwnemon
A battle with a lot of new pokes (well not Aboma but basically everyone outside of that)! I asked Pwnemon to help me test and he was nice enough to agree :P.
The battle basically starts out nice, becoming a war with Hail vs. Rain, it later turned into, kill archeops before it kills you X_X (it resulted in a lot of Blizzards being fired at Water-type pokes because of the fear Archeops would come back, and the sad part is the team has nothing that outspeeds it) . Hail Abomasnow, while the idea sounds a little stupid, helped control the weather for most of the match. Defensive Latias (who is a major failure since Heal Pulse doesn't work through protect as shown), Togekiss (great user of Follow Me, but couldn't use it and tanked Hydro Pumps instead), and Coballion (the only guy that can deal with Scizor, Kyurem-Black, and Archeops decently) also help out.
Scizor's presence also proved intimidating seeing as it could basically kill every member of the hail team with the right move (if it had Superpower (which I'm not sure if it did)), forcing Protects, switches, and more Blizzards. Kyurem, a mon neglected, also makes his show case here spamming Blizzards that deal over 70% to Kingdra.
tl;dr / moral of the story: Kyurem's Blizzards are strong, Archeops is stronger then Deoxys-A, and Defensive Latias with Heal Pulse sucks (might work with Tailwind or something though). That and don't leave a match when a guy lags out.
A battle with a lot of new pokes (well not Aboma but basically everyone outside of that)! I asked Pwnemon to help me test and he was nice enough to agree :P.
The battle basically starts out nice, becoming a war with Hail vs. Rain, it later turned into, kill archeops before it kills you X_X (it resulted in a lot of Blizzards being fired at Water-type pokes because of the fear Archeops would come back, and the sad part is the team has nothing that outspeeds it) . Hail Abomasnow, while the idea sounds a little stupid, helped control the weather for most of the match. Defensive Latias (who is a major failure since Heal Pulse doesn't work through protect as shown), Togekiss (great user of Follow Me, but couldn't use it and tanked Hydro Pumps instead), and Coballion (the only guy that can deal with Scizor, Kyurem-Black, and Archeops decently) also help out.
Scizor's presence also proved intimidating seeing as it could basically kill every member of the hail team with the right move (if it had Superpower (which I'm not sure if it did)), forcing Protects, switches, and more Blizzards. Kyurem, a mon neglected, also makes his show case here spamming Blizzards that deal over 70% to Kingdra.
tl;dr / moral of the story: Kyurem's Blizzards are strong, Archeops is stronger then Deoxys-A, and Defensive Latias with Heal Pulse sucks (might work with Tailwind or something though). That and don't leave a match when a guy lags out.
Aerodactyl > Archeops.
Why?
Aerodactyl can equip a Focus Sash and still be viable with 1 hp. Archeops cannot.
Not true blankzero, archeops can assuredly ohko a lot of pokemon with its acrobatics, similar to how latios ohko's threats with draco meteor. Except archeops also gets spread heatwave and rock slide to use. For example flight gem acrobatics boosted by helping hand has ohkoed a thundurus switch in for me before.
The amount of intimidate users does hinder it somewhat and of course going under 50% is terrible but if you ohko just 1 pokemon it's done its job (similar to haxorus).
great with tailwind/ragepowder/follow me/wide guard/helping hand support because unlike other pokemon (such as aerodactyl) it can ohko or 2hko a large percentage of the metagame.
edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8054029
Hail is incredibly viable in doubles, and some pokemon that barely see use (such as mantine and empoleon) are remarkably threatening
The amount of intimidate users does hinder it somewhat and of course going under 50% is terrible but if you ohko just 1 pokemon it's done its job (similar to haxorus).
great with tailwind/ragepowder/follow me/wide guard/helping hand support because unlike other pokemon (such as aerodactyl) it can ohko or 2hko a large percentage of the metagame.
edit: http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/smogondoubles8054029
Hail is incredibly viable in doubles, and some pokemon that barely see use (such as mantine and empoleon) are remarkably threatening
Please show me how Sash Aerodactyl is less threatening than Archeops?
Because Doughboy fucking steamrolled EVERYBODY with that thing when Doubles started. Even Voodoo was surprised.
The sun vs rain link is broken.
New Topic:
Snarl.
It spreads and it lowers both opponents Special Attack by 1 stage.
Here is the On Site analysis
Snarl.
It spreads and it lowers both opponents Special Attack by 1 stage.
Here is the On Site analysis
I never had whole lot of success using Mantine in Nintendo's doubles format, so I'm having a hard time understanding how it could be remarkably threatening. Generally, the best role I found for it was a defensive role, setting up Tailwind, and spamming Icy Wind, and the occasional Scald, while healing up from your partners Surfs.
It's usually one of my last pokes standing, I initially went with tailwind too but it doesn't really make good use of it.
Wide guard makes it immune to rock slide's and discharges for a turn and supports your partner.. icy wind whilst your partner protects against faster mons is approximately as reliable as cresselia and just like cresselia it has helping hand. Let's not forget it resists heat wave, is immune to surf and EQ and takes a pittance from the majority of sludge wave users.
Combination of icy wind, wide guard and helping hand is enough for me. The main reason to use it over cress if you use it at all is wide guard + water absorb, basically makes it a better rain counter and a reliable support mon that is simply not quite as bulky. I guess when stealth rock catches on it's viability will shoot down.
Also BlankZero, I was trying to say Archeops is more viable then you give it credit for, not that it is good with a focus sash (lol). Although it's ability doesn't reduce its speed under 50% so you can try something gimmicky like endeavour if you really want to sash it. I've used sash aerodactyl as well and they play two different roles, aerodactyl doesn't have archeops KO potential whilst archeops doesn't have aerodactyl's unique speed/movepool/ability combination. Ofcourse this could all change the moment Aerodactyl gets a stab recoil move or Archeops gets a new ability.
Wide guard makes it immune to rock slide's and discharges for a turn and supports your partner.. icy wind whilst your partner protects against faster mons is approximately as reliable as cresselia and just like cresselia it has helping hand. Let's not forget it resists heat wave, is immune to surf and EQ and takes a pittance from the majority of sludge wave users.
Combination of icy wind, wide guard and helping hand is enough for me. The main reason to use it over cress if you use it at all is wide guard + water absorb, basically makes it a better rain counter and a reliable support mon that is simply not quite as bulky. I guess when stealth rock catches on it's viability will shoot down.
Also BlankZero, I was trying to say Archeops is more viable then you give it credit for, not that it is good with a focus sash (lol). Although it's ability doesn't reduce its speed under 50% so you can try something gimmicky like endeavour if you really want to sash it. I've used sash aerodactyl as well and they play two different roles, aerodactyl doesn't have archeops KO potential whilst archeops doesn't have aerodactyl's unique speed/movepool/ability combination. Ofcourse this could all change the moment Aerodactyl gets a stab recoil move or Archeops gets a new ability.
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