Mafia From the Depths - GAME OVER, INSANE WIN

My absence lasted longer than I hoped it would, but it looks like I didn't miss all that much over the last few hours.

It's good to see TPM finally posting something, pity Empoof is still absent though.

Regarding the sentry, right now I'm comfortable with sentry shinyskarmory, as he is pretty much proven clean, while I still have my doubts about askaninjask every now and then. I don't like the going back and forth between Spiffy and askaninjask; neither of the two appear to really trust each other, and this makes me feel that one of them is mafia, though I wouldn't know which of the two. Therefore, I'm not comfortable sentrying askaninjask yet, even though he was my sentry vote on Day 2. It's just that I don't like his focus on Spiffy.

5 hours and only 1 post do you feel my pain now

Metal Sonic, let me repeat this: what specifically do you want me to respond to?

Also everyone was alseep dude :/

Metal Sonic's egotistical attitude is really starting to annoy me. Saying that you're "the number one scum hunter" every time someone asks you a question is just annoying and doesn't help anyone.

Also, protip: rushing a lynch makes you suspicious. So does rushing to put somebody at L-2. You are the ONLY ONE who believes that Walrein is not providing satisfactory answers (if there's somebody else speak up), so I guess that's why you're frustrated with our lack of speed in jumping to acquiesce to your every demand.

Finally, I'll just say this: I'm raising legitimate points. You COULD have been bussing Eagle4 since you jumped on his wagon very late-however, he openly stated to be simply trying to redirect the vote:

Eagle4 said:

unvote
vote shinyskarmory

Obviously this is me trying to get the lynch of myself and onto SS. There's no denying that, and I'm not hiding that fact. But really, I know I'm village, you guys believe otherwise.

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which is why he wasn't bussing me.

I used to think you were just confused village with a bad time zone, but each one of your posts on Day 2 and Day 3 made me think more and more that you were mafia.

I guess refuting your points doesn't make a good post in your book, sorry I can't help you by agreeing with you :/

Okay i read through all of Eagle's D2 posts, and have a ton more town reads than i did before.

I do have to agree with a scum read on Walrein. There were too many instances where Walrein refused to talk about Eagle, including saying he was going to analyze eagle and then analyzed zorbees instead (who has much more posts and would obviously take more time), as well as Eagle's labeling him as town. This post was the crux for me:

Eagle4 said:

Also Walrein before I go to bed I wouldn't mind an analysis of myself from you like you sid you were gonna do(or are you doing that as I'm posting this?)

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This is during Eagle's pressure. I see this as him pleading to his teammate to make him look cleaner.

Vote Walrein

My FoS's:
Zorbees. For basically pussyfooting around the eagle discussion. The times you mention eagle it almost feels like you're deflecting, giving a little leeway for Eagle to make up for it.
Spiffy. I have considered the idea that once Eagle was considered a lost cause, to talk to Eagle and start buddying up to him. This is my loosest scum read, as Spiffy did solidify the Eagle lynch when he could've just left it onto SS and let the lynch ride through onto him. But I need to toy with the idea of a walrein town flip and what that means.

I want to hold off on a sentry vote. I've figured out the mafia's killing pattern, and as the day progresses I'll feel more comfortable laying it down.

I don't think i should list my full town reads for the mafia to grab onto, so let me know if it's actually beneficial to the town for me to do them.

okay apparently there is something wrong with my internet or something, I didn't see the full of page 23 before posting. Which has Walrein's rebuttals, so i'll look at those now

Okay I've look through today. Metal Sonic you're doing some really weird shit.

Metal Sonic said:

No. Do not look through Eagle's posts at all. They are all lies. Do not trust anything from a liar. Never ever. Buddying is bullshit. Instead, find out who sees Eagle as 'clean' or 'town'

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This is by far the most backwards thought. You need to look at who Eagle was targetting and what his intentions were. A scum flip is not only good for us because of the -1 mafia, but now we can get way more confirmed townies. The people Eagle lash out against are going to be people the mafia is looking to target with the lynch. I have a town read on you solely because you pushed onto the Eagle lynch early on, please don't throw that away.

Empoof: I had previously promised a zorbees analysis before Eagle gained suspicion. When I said I was going to do one on Eagle, Spiffy insisted I stick do doing zorbees like I said I would. Then I got lazy the day after that, and when I woke up planning to do an analysis on Eagle FINALLY, I discovered he had been lynched overnight.

Also, how does Eagle asking me for an analysis of him make me scummy? If anything, I think this makes me cleaner. If I was scum, he could have just straight-up asked me in scumchat what he was doing wrong. The fact that he took it to the thread makes me think he wanted a villager's take on his behavior.

Empoof said:

I have considered the idea that once Eagle was considered a lost cause, to talk to Eagle and start buddying up to him.

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What does this mean and what does this have to do with your read on me?

Empoof said:

I want to hold off on a sentry vote. I've figured out the mafia's killing pattern, and as the day progresses I'll feel more comfortable laying it down.

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What exactly is holding you back? It's not like you've been posting much of anything and needed a break...

I agree with More Cowbell that I don't really know where askaninjask's head is out regarding users other than me. Askaninjask: If you were the deciding vote today between zorbees and Empoof, who would you lynch and why?

Even though Metal Sonic has acted really weird lately, I still have a town read on him because I don't think he would have went to hard after Eagle4 so early on Day 2 if he was mafia with him. I ESPECIALLY don't think I newer player would do this.

unsentry shinyskarmory

spiffy's logic makes sense, a shinyskarmory kill should have happened last night if the mafia wanted him dead. Additionally, I'd like to see what empoof has to say about sentry before we get majority

I was thinking that we should protect whoever would lead the charge on the lynch vote, as we have a lot of information to gather upon. That's who they targetted N1/N2... Jalmont was confirmed town because of the Eagle lynch. But seeing as SS is basically confirmed village as well it might just be in our best interest to sentry him. I just want to see what he's doing throughout the day before making my decision on it. It's not like locking in sentry benefits us when we can talk about it. If we reach the same conclusion by the end of the day, then that's fine and I'll sentry SS and he'll be safe.

There are definitely a LOT of village reads that were reinforced because of yesterday's lynch, so that's something to keep in mind. If one of them happens to lead a charge i think is note worthy, then I'll probably consider sentrying them over SS.

Spiffy i thought about it for like 5 more minutes and my FoS didn't really make any sense. I had just put together that you are pretty adamant about Walrein, and was theorycrafting that perhaps the mafia would try to scrap together a good way to push a village lynch onto walrein from Eagle. You're switch over to the Eagle Lynch is enough for me to consider you town, seeing as you could've prevented it and moved over to SS.

Walrein, that actually makes a ton of sense haha. I didn't really consider that he could've just asked you in scumchat for whatever reason. And i was oblivious to spiffy asking you to do the zorbees read. I'll have to reconsider my stance on you, then.

WELL now i have a bunch of town reads and not very many scum reads. I'll have to dive deeper i guess.

Empoof, what do you think of LightWolf, Metal Sonic, and Spiffy?

Walrein said:

Also, how does Eagle asking me for an analysis of him make me scummy? If anything, I think this makes me cleaner. If I was scum, he could have just straight-up asked me in scumchat what he was doing wrong. The fact that he took it to the thread makes me think he wanted a villager's take on his behavior.

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This logic goes both ways for an issue so minor as this. This is why I hate scenerios like "If I was scum why would this happen". Eagle could have also done that to make you seem cleaner when he flipped mafia. So I don't think this should have any influence on what people think of your alignment.

Spiffy said:

I agree with More Cowbell that I don't really know where askaninjask's head is out regarding users other than me. Askaninjask: If you were the deciding vote today between zorbees and Empoof, who would you lynch and why?

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I can't really conclude much from zorbees's playstyle - he has played in a way that promotes discussion, gives us ties between him and various other users, and everything else I would want to see from another player. I think zorbees is a knowledgable enough person to know to do this even if he is mafia though, so I don't feel comfortable concluding very much from his posting pattern.

One thing that I did find really odd, however, when I looked back through Day 1, was that zorbees switched his random vote from Eagle4 to someone else before Eagle4 ever responded. Eagle4 goes on to completely ignore this post for the remainder of the game until his death. I think that Eagle4 may have thought that he did not need to respond to zorbees's random vote, perhaps because he felt he didn't need to respond to a teammate's pressure... zorbees also is the kind of player who would random vote a teammate first.

Empoof has been idle, and the posts he have made have been uniformly terrible. It would be an easy way for a mafian to get out of having to make reasonable posts that tie them to other users. Honestly, I would have to make a more detailed look through his previous posts to make a final verdict, but for now I am not convinced that he is town.

I would like to hear both of them acknowledge these points before I voted either of them, but if I were forced to make a decision I would probably vote for Empoof. It's easier to pretend to be idle village than mafia village. I would like to see zorbees answer the above question.

Of course, words mean nothing without votes, so I feel that I have to unvote Spiffy vote Empoof for now. I hope he returns online soon so he can answer some of my concerns.

Oh, apparently I need to read the thread before I post. Empoof has indeed posted since Day 3 started. I will read his post(s?) now and get back to you.

Spiffy said:

This logic goes both ways for an issue so minor as this. This is why I hate scenerios like "If I was scum why would this happen". Eagle could have also done that to make you seem cleaner when he flipped mafia. So I don't think this should have any influence on what people think of your alignment.

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Touche, though IDK if Eagle was experienced enough to pull this off.

Something I just noticed:

Metal Sonic (towards Eagle4) said:

You have not provided the town with new ideas, have not given town a new perspective on who is scum and not, and once again "going with the flow".

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not basically exactly what Metal Sonic is doing?

Empoof said:

Okay i read through all of Eagle's D2 posts, and have a ton more town reads than i did before.

I do have to agree with a scum read on Walrein. There were too many instances where Walrein refused to talk about Eagle, including saying he was going to analyze eagle and then analyzed zorbees instead (who has much more posts and would obviously take more time), as well as Eagle's labeling him as town. This post was the crux for me:

This is during Eagle's pressure. I see this as him pleading to his teammate to make him look cleaner.

Vote Walrein

My FoS's:
Zorbees. For basically pussyfooting around the eagle discussion. The times you mention eagle it almost feels like you're deflecting, giving a little leeway for Eagle to make up for it.
Spiffy. I have considered the idea that once Eagle was considered a lost cause, to talk to Eagle and start buddying up to him. This is my loosest scum read, as Spiffy did solidify the Eagle lynch when he could've just left it onto SS and let the lynch ride through onto him. But I need to toy with the idea of a walrein town flip and what that means.

I want to hold off on a sentry vote. I've figured out the mafia's killing pattern, and as the day progresses I'll feel more comfortable laying it down.

I don't think i should list my full town reads for the mafia to grab onto, so let me know if it's actually beneficial to the town for me to do them.

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This is a decent post, actually, but it's REALLY noncommittal. You say Walrein is scum but then prepare for when he flips village (wtf). I would love a more detailed post about your zorbees read, too. Either your mafia and don't want to tie yourself down to any one target, or you need to grow a pair and take some stands.

Walrein do you think Metal Sonic would be experienced enough to pressure Eagle4 hard for all of Day 2?

If he was mafia* Sorry for double post.

Walrein said:

Touche, though IDK if Eagle was experienced enough to pull this off.

Something I just noticed:

some metal sonic hypocritical quote

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but is this not basically exactly what Metal Sonic is doing?

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You know, I held off on voting you for a long time, since I liked how you dealt with the initial Day 1 pressure, but with every post you make I grow more and more certain that you are mafia. "IDK if Eagle was experienced enough to pull this off"? Seriously? You are countering ARGUMENTS that you are mafia, not countering the claim. This is probably the biggest and most obvious scumtell there is. If you accuse a mafian of being a mafian for reason X, that person has a tendency to argue against X instead of against the claim that he is mafia, since it's easy to defend against specific arguments and really hard to lie and come up with reasons why people should trust you when they shouldn't.

Honestly, "IDK if Eagle was experienced enough to pull this off" doesn't even refute the argument. Why not "Eagle did not do this. I don't think he was even experienced enough to pull this off"? You don't even deny the claim! What are you even doing?

I know I just voted Empoof, and he hasn't responded yet, but honestly, it would take a lot of convincing now to get me off of a Walrein vote. This post makes it abundantly clear to me that Walrein is the best vote we have.

unvote Empoof
vote Walrein

Metal Sonic didn't really pressure Eagle the entire day. He didn't jump on until here, and most of his reasoning was taken from Jalmont's original post of suspicion. It's not hard to keep up the pressure against someone you're bandwagoning against.

In addition, here he says that he finds me and Cowbell less helpful than Eagle, and seems reluctant to pressure him quite yet. In addition, the next time he votes, which is quite soon after SS added his vote to the wagon, he goes straight for Eagle while ignoring questions directed at him from multiple other users. Eagle had only posted once in that span.

What do I think happened? I think it's quite possible that in the scumchat, the mafians realized that Jalmont had raised quite a good point, and that it would be prudent for one of them to aggressively jump onto the bandwagon to appear cleaner.

tl;dr yes, i think he could easily be bussing

Aska, I was saying touche to the fact that it is in fact WIFOM. I obviously know that Eagle didn't do that, but I'm going to have a hard time convincing everyone else of this because nothing can be proven by my word alone.

Yes, I worded it terribly, but that's basically what I meant.

Obviously, it's not what you meant. That's what I meant by "scumtell"... you said what you thought instead of what you meant.

I swear to God it's what I meant, but clearly I won't be able to convince you of this. Instead, I pose this question: let's say you lynch me today. I flip town. Who do you lynch next?