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252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 187-222 (44.52 - 52.85%) -- 89.06% chance to 2HKO after Spikes (100% to OHKO with two layers of any hazard)
I personally find that pretty scary especially when compared to
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 97-115 (28.11 - 33.33%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
This is just standard SubGyara, we can build a bulkier set that will last even longer. Then there's other options that can handle Keldeo like Amoongus who can also switch into Zapdos while spreading Sleep/Para and never wasting a turn healing.
Although, there is another major drawback to CB Terrakion and that is how easy it is to exploit the fact that it is locked into a single move. Slowbro, although 2HKO'd, can still be brought in to scout Terrakion's move choice and then react accordingly. This personally worries me a lot more than a Hippowdon pick which'll only end up evening the playing field with the exception that Team 2 will have easy turns to Spike or Spin.
Gyara is easy to handle as long as your team is decently fast and doesn't carry many Pokemon against which Gyarados can easily set-up. And even if such a problem does occur, SpD P-Song Celebi (Zapdos takes Bounce), Sub Kyurem-B, and Ferrothorn are all good choices to counter SubDD Gyarados (some are offensive, some are defensive, some are weak to SR and some are not, meaning that there is a variety of Pokemon to chose from). And we already have Zapdos, which is a decent check to Gyarados outside of rain.
Finally, i don't really care about Amoonguss, as it has been mentioned multiple times that it is a quite easy to take advantage of, and doesn't do a good job of keeping momentum after Sleep Clause has been activated.
really won me over. Lando-t can switch on it effortlessly all day forever and ever, and it is one of the only pokes who can do that (252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 187-222 (44.52 - 52.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 Layer of Spikes) and the fact that that is no longer an option makes it very difficult to counter terrakion, nonetheless properly check him.
Non boosting item keldeo is just WEAK. Forreals. Expert belt, imo, should only be used for surprise celebi shenanigans and the like, but that doesn't work in ctp. Completely outclassed by life orb, but I don't find that all that ideal either at this point.
So yeah. I like terrakion. And I still like mamoswine.
Uh...Just because Terrakion has a guaranteed 2HKO on Hippowdon after SR and 1 layer of spikes we should not go for Keldeo? There are other options that can be chosen to counter Terrakion:
252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/248Def Leftovers Slowbro (+Def): 25% - 29% (99 - 117 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/248Def Leftovers Slowbro (+Def): 41% - 49% (165 - 195 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 252HP/248Def Leftovers Slowbro (+Def): 45% - 53% (178 - 210 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
What I don't like about it is to be locked on something. It really steals your momentum and gives the opponent an opportunity to set up or scout your switch (when using Slowbro for example, it comes, takes an attack and then switches out to something that can take advantage of Terrakion while Slowbro recovers HP)
I don't think so. You are saying in that case that Scarf Terrakion is also weak because there is no boosting item. Keldeo packs 129 base SpA and a great offensive typing (only resisted by grass, water and dragon).
If we choose Keldeo, the other team will probably have to use Gyarados, which can be played around very easy by the likes of Rotom-W, Zapdos, Ferrothorn, etc.
Well, there are other options outside of Gyarados like Amoongus, Suicune and other assorted bulky waters.
Although you are right about Slowbro being an easy switch-in to scout the move, it still can't handle Terrakion alone which means two picks are going to have to be made to deal with one mon. On top of that, Slowbro is still a Psychic type so it's possible to Pursuit trap him after a bit of previous damage.
I don't think so. You are saying in that case that Scarf Terrakion is also weak because there is no boosting item. Keldeo packs 129 base SpA and a great offensive typing (only resisted by grass, water and dragon).
If it has a scarf it is taking on the role of clean up sweeper/revenge killer, not the heavy hitter that we are currently going for.
Yeah, I was just pointing out that (imo) the fact that Hippo takes that amount of damage is not something spectacular. I like CB Terrakion, I voted for it, but I can't afford to hear someone saying that Keldeo is weak.
Considering it was pointed out as being a rather hard counter to cb terrakion and is one of the bulkiest pokes around, it is indeed rather spectacular.
And keldeo is not on-paper weak, but in reality at this point we need a super hard hitting pivot and without some kind of boosting item or spectacular coverage, it isn't getting the job done. Keep in mind its coverage options are a 55 bp nonstab ice move and a 70bp nonstab hp...
And secret sword isn't the strongest attack tbh
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 6.68 - 7.92%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 8.93 - 10.66%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 9.37 - 11.19%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 22.52 - 26.73%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 22.79 - 26.94%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 23.07 - 27.19%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 23.07 - 27.19%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Toxicroak: 23.09 - 27.44%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 23.07 - 27.54%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Amoonguss: 23.61 - 28.24%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 24.61 - 28.93%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 24.68 - 29.26%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 25.86 - 30.66%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 26.63 - 31.52%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 28.11 - 33.33%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Roserade: 28.39 - 33.95%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 29.01 - 34.71%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 29.3 - 34.74%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 29.3 - 34.74%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 29.37 - 34.98%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 29.69 - 35.02%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 30.44 - 35.89%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Slowking: 30.96 - 36.54%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 31.08 - 36.78%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 31.25 - 36.97%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 31.3 - 37.06%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel: 32.77 - 38.79%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Milotic: 32.74 - 38.83%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 192 HP / 52 SpD Venusaur: 32.66 - 38.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 33.55 - 39.47%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 33.51 - 39.56%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 136+ Def Vaporeon: 33.76 - 39.82%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Cresselia: 34 - 40.09%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 35.13 - 41.44%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 35.53 - 42.13%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Jirachi: 35.64 - 42.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 36.07 - 42.52%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 36.89 - 43.58%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 37.03 - 43.82%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 37.15 - 43.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 37.15 - 43.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 37.57 - 44.37%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin: 38.28 - 45.34%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 38.46 - 45.6%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 38.5 - 45.72%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 212 Def Vaporeon: 38.9 - 45.88%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 39.17 - 46.49%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 39.73 - 47.01%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 39.86 - 47.17%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Gastrodon: 39.67 - 47.18%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Rotom-C: 39.8 - 47.36%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 40.39 - 47.68%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Ludicolo: 40.1 - 47.8%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 28 HP / 248 SpD Wobbuffet: 40.9 - 48.29%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 40.64 - 48.66%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 42.32 - 50%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 42.35 - 50%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 42.63 - 50.25%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-D: 42.43 - 50.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88+ SpD Bronzong: 42.6 - 50.59%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 42.76 - 50.65%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 42.9 - 50.82%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 43.47 - 51.5%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 43.44 - 51.68%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 43.76 - 51.97%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dragonite: 45.59 - 53.88%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 46.09 - 54.16%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Parasect: 45.67 - 54.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 46.52 - 54.81%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 46.35 - 54.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Virizion: 46.63 - 55.18%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 46.7 - 55.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 47.22 - 55.55%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 47.36 - 55.72%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 40 HP / 12 Def Kingdra: 47.84 - 56.14%
Here's a list of (ou viable) pokes that aren't even 2HKOd with that set (courtesy of honko)... there are quite a few picks for the other team...
Compare that (same pool of pokes) with mamo:
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 25.67 - 30.63%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 25.63 - 30.71%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Cresselia: 28.15 - 33.33%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cresselia: 28.37 - 33.55%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 31.49 - 37.3%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 34.18 - 40.67%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 34.65 - 40.84%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 35.19 - 41.44%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 36.54 - 43.65%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 36.87 - 43.75%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Bronzong: 38.46 - 45.26%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 38.57 - 45.43%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 38.67 - 45.54%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew: 38.61 - 45.79%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 38.93 - 46.13%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Mew: 39.85 - 47.27%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Gyarados: 40.18 - 47.43%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cofagrigus: 40.31 - 47.5%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 40.67 - 48.01%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Wobbuffet: 40.69 - 48.17%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 28 HP / 232+ Def Wobbuffet: 41.28 - 48.67%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 42.31 - 50.14%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 43.63 - 51.41%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 43.65 - 51.52%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 44.08 - 52.36%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 44.92 - 53.34%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 44.92 - 53.55%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Ludicolo: 46.42 - 54.94%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 46.71 - 55.26%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 46.71 - 55.26%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 46.53 - 55.44%
and terrakion (locked into choice band for the sake of that argument...):
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 18.39 - 21.5%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Sigilyph: 18.39 - 21.55%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 19.68 - 23.05%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 19.68 - 23.31%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 20.55 - 24.36%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 20.94 - 24.54%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Xatu: 20.72 - 24.62%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 22.49 - 26.55%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Cresselia: 22.52 - 26.57%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cresselia: 22.97 - 27.02%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Crobat: 23.26 - 27.54%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 23.45 - 27.77%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 25.12 - 29.69%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Ninjask: 26.15 - 30.76%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Multiscale Dragonite: 26.31 - 30.95%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yanmega: 26.51 - 30.99%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 26.55 - 31.35%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew: 26.73 - 31.43%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Mew: 27.47 - 32.42%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Wobbuffet: 28.02 - 33.01%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 28 HP / 232+ Def Wobbuffet: 28.21 - 33.33%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 29.71 - 35.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Nidoqueen: 29.68 - 35.15%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 24+ Def Gliscor: 30.59 - 35.97%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scolipede: 30.65 - 36.01%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 30.53 - 36.25%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 31.21 - 36.54%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 31.29 - 36.64%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 228+ Def Zapdos: 31.07 - 36.81%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 31.46 - 37.33%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 31.9 - 37.5%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 31.97 - 37.79%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Gyarados: 32.02 - 38.06%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 32.41 - 38.53%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Gothitelle: 32.84 - 38.66%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 33.12 - 39.37%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 33.22 - 39.49%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 33.6 - 39.83%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowbro: 34.01 - 40.1%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 192 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 33.81 - 40.11%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 34.2 - 40.57%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 35.34 - 41.69%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Slowking: 35.53 - 41.87%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Victini: 35.73 - 42.43%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 36.13 - 42.57%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 36.13 - 42.57%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Dragonite: 36.52 - 43.26%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Volcarona: 38.27 - 45.28%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Tentacruel: 38.46 - 45.32%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venomoth: 39.14 - 45.9%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 39.37 - 46.37%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 39.63 - 46.63%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-D: 40.24 - 47.3%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gliscor: 41.23 - 48.45%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 41.12 - 48.45%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Reuniclus: 41.56 - 49.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Tentacruel: 42.03 - 49.45%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Zapdos: 42 - 49.59%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 42.52 - 50.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Celebi: 42.52 - 50.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 42.52 - 50.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mew: 42.69 - 50.29%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 42.69 - 50.29%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 42.81 - 50.43%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 43.68 - 51.64%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 44.16 - 52.28%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 44.55 - 52.72%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 44.52 - 52.85%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Parasect: 45.06 - 53.08%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Volbeat: 45.04 - 53.15%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 45.24 - 53.21%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss: 45.13 - 53.47%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 46.89 - 55.36%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 47.22 - 55.55%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 47.36 - 55.72%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 47.2 - 55.73%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 47.52 - 55.94%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 120 Def Toxicroak: 47.82 - 56.25%
Well, there are other options outside of Gyarados like Amoongus, Suicune and other assorted bulky waters.
Although you are right about Slowbro being an easy switch-in to scout the move, it still can't handle Terrakion alone which means two picks are going to have to be made to deal with one mon. On top of that, Slowbro is still a Psychic type so it's possible to Pursuit trap him after a bit of previous damage.
Yeah, I was just pointing out that (imo) the fact that Hippo takes that amount of damage is not something spectacular. I like CB Terrakion, I voted for it, but I can't afford to hear someone saying that Keldeo is weak.
If it has a scarf it is taking on the role of clean up sweeper/revenge killer, not the heavy hitter that we are currently going for.
Considering it was pointed out as being a rather hard counter to cb terrakion and is one of the bulkiest pokes around, it is indeed rather spectacular.
And keldeo is not on-paper weak, but in reality at this point we need a super hard hitting pivot and without some kind of boosting item or spectacular coverage, it isn't getting the job done. Keep in mind its coverage options are a 55 bp nonstab ice move and a 70bp nonstab hp...
And secret sword isn't the strongest attack tbh
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 6.68 - 7.92%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 8.93 - 10.66%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 172 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 9.37 - 11.19%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 22.52 - 26.73%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 22.79 - 26.94%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 23.07 - 27.19%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 23.07 - 27.19%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Toxicroak: 23.09 - 27.44%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Jellicent: 23.07 - 27.54%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Amoonguss: 23.61 - 28.24%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 24.61 - 28.93%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 24.68 - 29.26%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 25.86 - 30.66%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 26.63 - 31.52%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 28.11 - 33.33%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Roserade: 28.39 - 33.95%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 60 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 29.01 - 34.71%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 29.3 - 34.74%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gyarados: 29.3 - 34.74%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 29.37 - 34.98%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 29.69 - 35.02%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 30.44 - 35.89%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 56+ SpD Slowking: 30.96 - 36.54%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 31.08 - 36.78%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Politoed: 31.25 - 36.97%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 24 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 31.3 - 37.06%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel: 32.77 - 38.79%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Milotic: 32.74 - 38.83%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 192 HP / 52 SpD Venusaur: 32.66 - 38.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Deoxys-D: 33.55 - 39.47%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 33.51 - 39.56%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 244 HP / 136+ Def Vaporeon: 33.76 - 39.82%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Cresselia: 34 - 40.09%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cresselia: 35.13 - 41.44%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowking: 35.53 - 42.13%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 224+ SpD Jirachi: 35.64 - 42.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 36.07 - 42.52%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Feraligatr: 36.89 - 43.58%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 37.03 - 43.82%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 37.15 - 43.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Multiscale Dragonite: 37.15 - 43.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 37.57 - 44.37%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 224 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin: 38.28 - 45.34%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 38.46 - 45.6%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 38.5 - 45.72%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 212 Def Vaporeon: 38.9 - 45.88%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Huntail: 39.17 - 46.49%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 39.73 - 47.01%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 39.86 - 47.17%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Gastrodon: 39.67 - 47.18%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Rotom-C: 39.8 - 47.36%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 40.39 - 47.68%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 40 SpD Ludicolo: 40.1 - 47.8%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 28 HP / 248 SpD Wobbuffet: 40.9 - 48.29%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 40.64 - 48.66%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 42.32 - 50%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Gorebyss: 42.35 - 50%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 212 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 42.63 - 50.25%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-D: 42.43 - 50.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 88+ SpD Bronzong: 42.6 - 50.59%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 42.76 - 50.65%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 42.9 - 50.82%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 43.47 - 51.5%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 24 HP / 0 SpD Roserade: 43.44 - 51.68%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 152 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 43.76 - 51.97%
252 SpA Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dragonite: 45.59 - 53.88%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 46.09 - 54.16%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Parasect: 45.67 - 54.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 46.52 - 54.81%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 46.35 - 54.96%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Virizion: 46.63 - 55.18%
252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Bug vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 46.7 - 55.32%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 47.22 - 55.55%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 47.36 - 55.72%
252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 40 HP / 12 Def Kingdra: 47.84 - 56.14%
Here's a list of (ou viable) pokes that aren't even 2HKOd with that set (courtesy of honko)... there are quite a few picks for the other team...
Compare that (same pool of pokes) with mamo:
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 25.67 - 30.63%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 25.63 - 30.71%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Cresselia: 28.15 - 33.33%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cresselia: 28.37 - 33.55%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 31.49 - 37.3%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 34.18 - 40.67%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 34.65 - 40.84%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 35.19 - 41.44%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 36.54 - 43.65%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 36.87 - 43.75%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Bronzong: 38.46 - 45.26%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 38.57 - 45.43%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 38.67 - 45.54%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew: 38.61 - 45.79%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 38.93 - 46.13%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Mew: 39.85 - 47.27%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Gyarados: 40.18 - 47.43%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cofagrigus: 40.31 - 47.5%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 224 HP / 32 Def Skarmory: 40.67 - 48.01%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Wobbuffet: 40.69 - 48.17%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 28 HP / 232+ Def Wobbuffet: 41.28 - 48.67%
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 42.31 - 50.14%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 43.63 - 51.41%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 43.65 - 51.52%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Superpower vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 44.08 - 52.36%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 44.92 - 53.34%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Milotic: 44.92 - 53.55%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 216+ Def Ludicolo: 46.42 - 54.94%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 46.71 - 55.26%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 46.71 - 55.26%
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 46.53 - 55.44%
and terrakion (locked into choice band for the sake of that argument...):
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 18.39 - 21.5%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Sigilyph: 18.39 - 21.55%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 19.68 - 23.05%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 19.68 - 23.31%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 20.55 - 24.36%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 20.94 - 24.54%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Xatu: 20.72 - 24.62%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 22.49 - 26.55%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Cresselia: 22.52 - 26.57%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 136+ Def Cresselia: 22.97 - 27.02%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Crobat: 23.26 - 27.54%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 23.45 - 27.77%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 25.12 - 29.69%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Ninjask: 26.15 - 30.76%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Multiscale Dragonite: 26.31 - 30.95%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Yanmega: 26.51 - 30.99%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 26.55 - 31.35%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 224+ Def Mew: 26.73 - 31.43%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 188+ Def Mew: 27.47 - 32.42%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 252+ Def Wobbuffet: 28.02 - 33.01%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 28 HP / 232+ Def Wobbuffet: 28.21 - 33.33%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 29.71 - 35.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Nidoqueen: 29.68 - 35.15%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 24+ Def Gliscor: 30.59 - 35.97%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Scolipede: 30.65 - 36.01%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Scolipede: 30.53 - 36.25%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 31.21 - 36.54%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados: 31.29 - 36.64%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 228+ Def Zapdos: 31.07 - 36.81%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 31.46 - 37.33%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 31.9 - 37.5%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venomoth: 31.97 - 37.79%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 88 Def Gyarados: 32.02 - 38.06%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 32 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 32.41 - 38.53%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Gothitelle: 32.84 - 38.66%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 33.12 - 39.37%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 33.22 - 39.49%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 33.6 - 39.83%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowbro: 34.01 - 40.1%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 192 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 33.81 - 40.11%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 34.2 - 40.57%
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 35.34 - 41.69%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 200 Def Slowking: 35.53 - 41.87%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Victini: 35.73 - 42.43%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 36.13 - 42.57%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 36.13 - 42.57%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 72 Def Dragonite: 36.52 - 43.26%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 216+ Def Volcarona: 38.27 - 45.28%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 236+ Def Tentacruel: 38.46 - 45.32%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Venomoth: 39.14 - 45.9%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 39.37 - 46.37%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 39.63 - 46.63%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-D: 40.24 - 47.3%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gliscor: 41.23 - 48.45%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 41.12 - 48.45%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Reuniclus: 41.56 - 49.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 240 Def Tentacruel: 42.03 - 49.45%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 192 HP / 64 Def Zapdos: 42 - 49.59%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 42.52 - 50.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Celebi: 42.52 - 50.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Victini: 42.52 - 50.14%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mew: 42.69 - 50.29%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 42.69 - 50.29%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 42.81 - 50.43%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Latias: 43.68 - 51.64%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 44.16 - 52.28%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 44.55 - 52.72%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 44.52 - 52.85%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Parasect: 45.06 - 53.08%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Volbeat: 45.04 - 53.15%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 45.24 - 53.21%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss: 45.13 - 53.47%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Forretress: 46.89 - 55.36%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 47.22 - 55.55%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 47.36 - 55.72%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 47.2 - 55.73%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 47.52 - 55.94%
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 244 HP / 120 Def Toxicroak: 47.82 - 56.25%
Thing is that, almost nothing switches into HP bug pony safely without being a horrible pursuit bait, and the way this is shaping, keldeo is supposed to be more of a late gamer or a nuke for further sweepers (which havent been decided), Terra just offers free momentum for Lando after the CC drops, since risking such a threat for the opposing team; which im positive it would be, dont get me wrong, gliscor and lando could never fit in the same team without turning it into a horrible water weakness.
We must look forward, CB terra is a ridicoulus nuke, we all know that, but E-belt keldy just seems more fitng since it doesnt have to rely on a 80 acc move to take down ANOTHER threat after 2 rounds of rocks, and works greatly in mind games, imo better then rak.
I'm sorry for the extended delay on the voting results but we actually have an ongoing tie between two sets (not saying which) so if any of you haven't sent me a vote please do so. (Thanks to all of you who have voted, everybody respected the format which makes it a lot easier on me :D)
Read rules to confirm that I can just casually check in.
I'd just like to say this is a fun read :) and I'm surprised yache berry Garchomp (SD set or SR or even perhaps both) hasn't even been considered yet...
I know you guys waited a while but I wanted to give everybody a chance to vote as it was really close. Also, I will now be providing screenshots of the PMs so that others can verify that I'm reporting fact and not fiction.
SubSalac Terrakion: 1
Specs Keldeo: 1
Mamoswine: 3
EB Keldeo: 7
CB Terrakion: 8 (I voted this as well)
Total Votes: 20
The latest addition is
Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack
Now we will be going to search for the second member or Team 1.
Thanks to all of you for putting your votes in the PM title. (except for black sheep Ginganinja :/)
Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind
Physical Defensive Hippowdon is one of the best switch into Choice Band Terrakion (at least it isn't 2HKO'd by any move if entry hazards aren't up) and since I think mons like Nidoqueen and Golurk aren't very good on OU, I decide to propose this. Hippowdon is a very nice support, it has Stealth Rock and it's a very bulk weather setter and gives us less weak to Sun teams since it isn't Dugtrio bait. It's also a reliable check to many threatening mons such as Lucario and Dragonite, which isn't bad of course. Hippowdon is definitely better than Tyranitar in Team 1, it checks CB Terrakion, Lucario, Dragonite, Sun teams and our Landorus-I doesn't need Tyranitar at all since it has U-Turn to smash Celebi and Lati Twins without any outside support.
Heh, the cool thing about a Hippo pick is that now we can use SubSplit gar since there isn't a worry about ScarfTar (although, there still is ScarfScizor or double Sand oO).
Anyways, that Hippo set is super Xatu weak which could prove to be a major issue. Maybe Stone Edge/Ice Fang would be better to have on it somewhere?
Edit: Oh? Then I see an Xatu pick on the horizon. (or at least a suggestion)
While Ice Fang and Stone Edge are both great options in general, they aren't very useful against Xatu in my opinion. Ice Fang hasn't enough fire power (it doesn't 2HKO Xatu) so it isn't a very good solution for Xatu. Otherwise Stone Edge could be a interesting choice, it 2HKOs Xatu while it hits for a good damage mons like Dragonite and Salamence, however, Xatu can switch into Hippo, tank a Stone Edge and use Roost until Stone Edge misses, so this isn't a really good solution too. Honestely, I'd keep Whirlwind and I'd choose another mon to deal with Xatu later.
Edit: Yes, you're right, if we decide to use Hippo then Xatu is a good mon for Team 2
I think we should try to pick a mon that brings out things landorus can sweep easily. Something that brings out SpD jirachi is a good example of this, so the following is my submission.
Cresselia (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Moonlight
- Hidden Power Fire
- Toxic
Cresselia is just too bulky. It laughs at CB terrakion's attempts to destroy it, and then it uses moonlight over and over again. Cresselia lures out tyranitar, heatran, and jirachi. All of which are weak to earth power. Psyshock and Hidden Power fire get good coverage, until team 2 introduces a reason to use ice beam, they are superior options. Toxic wears down zapdos and generally makes Cresselia harder to counter. Physical bulk walls the only notable attacker team 2 has introduced so far. When they introduce a steel type to counter Cresselia, Landorus will get free switch ins and if zapdos is weakened 2HKO it with HP ice.
Couple of problems with Cresselia, namely that it forces us into using sunlight AND is easily countered by Tyranitar. Sure, Tyranitar is weak to Earth Power, however, on the flip side Landorus cannot switch into Tyranitar, as you can bet Team #2 would give their Tyranitar Ice Beam, a Choice Band, a CHople Berry, a Choice Scarf, whatever it takes to make Landorus less of a threat, which means all Team #1 achieved was getting a 2nd Landorus-T check and has a pursuit bait Cresselia, constantly providing free switches for Tar, and useless against pretty much everything else.
Firstly this guy walls Terrakion all day. Secondly, it synergizes really well with Landorus-I (takes Ice and Water)
Looking at team 2, we really need something to switch against that beast. So here is where Slowbro comes, it can take any hit, and, since Terrakion is banded, it is easier to deal with.
252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Slowbro (+Def): 25% - 29% (99 - 117 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Slowbro (+Def): 41% - 49% (165 - 195 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
252Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) X-Scissor vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Slowbro (+Def): 44% - 52% (176 - 208 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.
Now, Slowbro doesn't have to fear a 2HKO from X-Scissor when rocks are up because it can take a hit and then switch (recovering HP thanks to Regenerator) to something that takes advantages from the locked Terrakion. So far, Thunder Wave seems pretty annoying for Team 2, nothing there likes to be paralyzed.
Also, spreading burns with 100% chance to do so with scald works too :]
Le fun polishpass mew! Not only does it go about countering terrakion (or at least strongly checking it... x-scizzor does 52% max and is awful to be locked into with lando on the team), but it can also support lando incredibly so with a simple rock polish+baton pass combo! It is as if lando gets a free agility while STILL having the ability to utilize u-turn as a pivot. It also can wall zapdos and such. It can even become quite annoying with a combo of rock polish+willowisp to deal wtih pursuiters and the like, plus baton pass makes it not trappable.
Finally, it allows us to abuse slower pokes later on, as well as generally increasing the speed of the team.
So yeah! Recover is usable over willowisp for longevity, but willowisp is such great utility and makes it super easy to counter the dog thing.
Max/max because they know the set so team 2 can just speed creep anyway.
For the record:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 188-222 (46.53 - 54.95%) -- 8.98% chance to 2HKO 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 177-208 (43.81 - 51.48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (or miss...) 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 105-124 (25.99 - 30.69%) -- possible 4HKO
Keep in mind, since nothing 2hkos, a willowisp or rock polish+psyshock or rock polish+willowisp or rock polish + baton pass to lando and reap destruction (in the case of x-scizor or cc) is always happening
Mew is 100% raped by any phazer. At this point, something like SDef Skarmory would work on for Team #2, as it checks Landorus AND phazes the fuck out of that Mew set while CB Terrakion abuses the Spikes. You would need Taunt or something on that set to be effective and even then its a little risky.
Mew is 100% raped by any phazer. At this point, something like SDef Skarmory would work on for Team #2, as it checks Landorus AND phazes the fuck out of that Mew set while CB Terrakion abuses the Spikes. You would need Taunt or something on that set to be effective and even then its a little risky.
But at that point could magnezone not come in and eliminate skarmory, allowing mew to return to its shenanigans?
Until later in the game, mew can funtion simply as a wall, spreading burns and threatening rock pass.
Just as lando wouldn't neccesarily rock polish until mid/late game, mew does not have to either. The agility doesn't need to serve an offensive purpose either. Similarly to agility deo-d staller thing way back when, a super fast will-o-wisp plus a baton pass to evade trouble is great utility
But at that point could magnezone not come in and eliminate skarmory, allowing mew to return to its shenanigans?
Until later in the game, mew can funtion simply as a wall, spreading burns and threatening rock pass.
Just as lando wouldn't neccesarily rock polish until mid/late game, mew does not have to either. The agility doesn't need to serve an offensive purpose either. Similarly to agility deo-d staller thing way back when, a super fast will-o-wisp plus a baton pass to evade trouble is great utility
Mono-attacking Mew with no Special Attack investment and a relatively low initial speed seems as if it will be easily taken advantage of by team two. This seems rather unthreatening, and though it does provide good utility, doesn't seem as if it covers any major roles at the moment. Phazers, prankster abusers, Pursuit trappers, faster Taunts, etc. all seem rather effective at stopping this Mew. Also, Psychic probably isn't the best move to be locked onto.
O.k, and Skarmory switches out of Magnezone cos of Shed Shell, again, you lose.
The point of the example was to illustrate just how fucked you are against a phazer. All it takes is ONE mon with either Perish Song / Whirlwind / Dragon Tail / Roar and Mew is useless, all the while you have options for your phazers to do shit OTHER than just phaze. Skarmory for example, can set up Spikes, Heatran can set up Stealth Rock, as can Hippowdon, shit, even Vaporeon has Wish Support. All these mons at least offer Team #2 something in addition to utterly shutting down Mew, while in turn, Mew offers next to nothing. Sure, I guess it can burn something, but its not even a good Terrakion 'counter" when with SR up X-Scissor and Stone Edge will not make it look pretty, and it has ZERO recovery, letting Team #2 just spam SE (or heck, even CC) and Mew goes down.
Its 2 easy to shut down Mew, a phazer removes its main draw / threat (ie bping) and a natural cure mon / guts mon / fire mon or whatever removes WoW from being a factor. Its just do easy to shut down that picking it would utterly, utterly cripple Team #1s chances at winning.
