Since no one has told you, it is possible to transfer third and forth generation pokemon from their respective games to black and white. Therefore, Celebi is legally allowed to use Stealth Rock.
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Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]
- Thread starter ganj4lF
- Start date
Since no one has told you, it is possible to transfer third and forth generation pokemon from their respective games to black and white. Therefore, Celebi is legally allowed to use Stealth Rock.
@ Hippodown
It doesn't matter that you hardwall Zapdos (I'm not entirely sure you do either) because you can't hit it. EQ doesn't hit it and by Whirlwinding it you're only giving yourself a better chance of switching into Rotom-W or the possible counters coming up in future picks to decimate you. Melee is also really worried about SpD Skarmory for whatever reason and you literally can't do anything to him either.
It doesn't matter that you hardwall Zapdos (I'm not entirely sure you do either) because you can't hit it. EQ doesn't hit it and by Whirlwinding it you're only giving yourself a better chance of switching into Rotom-W or the possible counters coming up in future picks to decimate you. Melee is also really worried about SpD Skarmory for whatever reason and you literally can't do anything to him either.
The Air Balloon idea is definitely interesting... I'll try to think of a good selection for this round.
Spikes I'm thinking is better, seeing as CtP goes through a LOT of switching, so Leech Seed probably won't be as useful, while Spikes definitely will.
Leftovers is probably the better move, as Ferrothorn needs to stay alive to counter stuff like Garchomp.
Sorry EV spread I dk.
Truthfully, an Azelf set is still not a bad idea. Something with Stealth Rock / Psychic / Ice Beam / Fire Blast could do some serious damage to Team 2, avoid Earthquake, deter Skarmory, help against Scizor, and either OHKO or 2HKO the whole team.
*Deleted Submission*
Basically, Azelf can click Psychic/Psyshock right now without much "prediction" and then just start breaking down Team 2 for Landorus and Kyurem-B to sweep. Meanwhile, it will have plenty of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock due to forcing 'mons like Garchomp and Terrakion out. Also doesn't rely on an air balloon to stay immune to Earthquake.
Overall, I feel better about an Azelf pick now than I did before we picked Scarf Kyurem-B. Azelf will do a good job supporting it and taking advantage of Landorus' U-Turn.
Possible Cons to Azelf:
- Bulky Starmie resists everything but U-Turn and can Rapid Spin away the rocks. Starmie, however, falls to Scarf Kyurem-B.
- Heatran also resists everything and can just do whatever it wants to do. Heatran can tank a hit from Kyurem-B, as well.
- While Azelf doesn't care about Scizor's Pursuit, Weavile can out-speed and kill it with Pursuit, while Tyranitar is plenty bulky enough to take a hit. 'Zelf can still get the rocks down, though.
*Deleted Submission*
Basically, Azelf can click Psychic/Psyshock right now without much "prediction" and then just start breaking down Team 2 for Landorus and Kyurem-B to sweep. Meanwhile, it will have plenty of opportunities to set up Stealth Rock due to forcing 'mons like Garchomp and Terrakion out. Also doesn't rely on an air balloon to stay immune to Earthquake.
Overall, I feel better about an Azelf pick now than I did before we picked Scarf Kyurem-B. Azelf will do a good job supporting it and taking advantage of Landorus' U-Turn.
Possible Cons to Azelf:
- Bulky Starmie resists everything but U-Turn and can Rapid Spin away the rocks. Starmie, however, falls to Scarf Kyurem-B.
- Heatran also resists everything and can just do whatever it wants to do. Heatran can tank a hit from Kyurem-B, as well.
- While Azelf doesn't care about Scizor's Pursuit, Weavile can out-speed and kill it with Pursuit, while Tyranitar is plenty bulky enough to take a hit. 'Zelf can still get the rocks down, though.
team 2 is going to have to select a spinner in one of its next two picks or else zapdos fails at countering landorus. it is important that whatever stealth rock user gets added can beat the common spinners. looking at the current suggestions, the azelf set loses to starmie outright, terrakion can threaten starmie to an extent but can also just be outran and koed, and charge beam claydol is pretty retarded... (+6 satk charge beam claydol to 0 sdef skarmory: 86.23% - 101.80%, so lets consider +1 or +2 against sdef skarmory that has invested speed so it can roost on the charge beam...)
the only three ideas with any merit are celebi, ferrothorn and latios. we cannot pick latios as we need stealth rock now. it is kind of mandatory if we want to make good use out of landorus and team 1 absolutely needs to ensure its last pick isn't hindered by having to use stealth rock in its moveset (same reason why infernape is a bad pick), since picking last is a huge advantage (see infernape last CCAT). celebi is actually a pretty decent pick all things considered since it forces garchomp to outrage and can set stealth rock although it will lose to skarmory. a better celebi set would probably want max def and toxic - so it can sort of handle garchomp and also beat zapdos. ferrothorn is my favourite pick so far and i was thinking about suggesting it last round as it walls rotom-w and can take on garchomp somewhat. with protect it could also make slowbro's job vs cb terrakion a bit easier. however the problem is it can just be exploited by a magnezone. substitute charge beam magnezone could easily eat the team if we selected ferrothorn which means the best ferrothorn set would have to include bulldoze. bulldoze is not bad either when you can use it on garchomp to allow jirachi to outrun and revenge. i think it would have to be something like stealth rock, power whip, gyro ball, bulldoze. gyro ball and bulldoze are not exactly a good strategy but a ferrothorn with these two moves cannot be exploited by magnezone or xatu. kind of need all three attacks so magnezone (eg magnet rise charge beam) or xatu cannot exploit it...
its worth noting that zapdos is still a pretty huge threat to team 1 since we used the turn where we usually counter it to pick jirachi (a guy that will still be pretty useful i'd say), however kyurem-b does an alright job at handling it. checking zapdos, baiting outrage or beating garchomp and not being eaten by starmie are requirements for this slot i think. it is probably impossible for any one set to do all this, and i suppose we cannot ignore the problems with sdef skarmory which means we can't go with toxic bold celebi or some form of passho mamoswine.
honestly i am kind of lost... even mew can't do all this (he is 1hkoed by a +2 outrage). the best set that we could pick in my opinion would probably be some form of azelf however it is absolutely going to need thunderbolt and probably a focus sash. stealth rock / ice beam / thunderbolt / anti-counter move
garchomp was a pretty great pick
the only three ideas with any merit are celebi, ferrothorn and latios. we cannot pick latios as we need stealth rock now. it is kind of mandatory if we want to make good use out of landorus and team 1 absolutely needs to ensure its last pick isn't hindered by having to use stealth rock in its moveset (same reason why infernape is a bad pick), since picking last is a huge advantage (see infernape last CCAT). celebi is actually a pretty decent pick all things considered since it forces garchomp to outrage and can set stealth rock although it will lose to skarmory. a better celebi set would probably want max def and toxic - so it can sort of handle garchomp and also beat zapdos. ferrothorn is my favourite pick so far and i was thinking about suggesting it last round as it walls rotom-w and can take on garchomp somewhat. with protect it could also make slowbro's job vs cb terrakion a bit easier. however the problem is it can just be exploited by a magnezone. substitute charge beam magnezone could easily eat the team if we selected ferrothorn which means the best ferrothorn set would have to include bulldoze. bulldoze is not bad either when you can use it on garchomp to allow jirachi to outrun and revenge. i think it would have to be something like stealth rock, power whip, gyro ball, bulldoze. gyro ball and bulldoze are not exactly a good strategy but a ferrothorn with these two moves cannot be exploited by magnezone or xatu. kind of need all three attacks so magnezone (eg magnet rise charge beam) or xatu cannot exploit it...
its worth noting that zapdos is still a pretty huge threat to team 1 since we used the turn where we usually counter it to pick jirachi (a guy that will still be pretty useful i'd say), however kyurem-b does an alright job at handling it. checking zapdos, baiting outrage or beating garchomp and not being eaten by starmie are requirements for this slot i think. it is probably impossible for any one set to do all this, and i suppose we cannot ignore the problems with sdef skarmory which means we can't go with toxic bold celebi or some form of passho mamoswine.
honestly i am kind of lost... even mew can't do all this (he is 1hkoed by a +2 outrage). the best set that we could pick in my opinion would probably be some form of azelf however it is absolutely going to need thunderbolt and probably a focus sash. stealth rock / ice beam / thunderbolt / anti-counter move
garchomp was a pretty great pick
I guess if beating Starmie and setting up SR is needed, Ferrothorn is potentially the best one. I am a little worried a Celebi would open us up to Signal Beam Starmie or something so idk.
I guess if we are looking for other SRers that don't instantly lose to Starmie, Seismitoad potentially isn't a terrible option. Sure its "lol Seismitoad" but it walls the fictional Starmie, gives us a rock resist for Terrak, walls Zapdos and deters Garchomp with Ice Beam / Ice Punch / Icy Wind. Also can take most of Rotom-Ws moveset but it prolly won't switch in lol.
I don't know what the set would look like, but something like SR / Toxic / Ice Attack / Water Attack could be ok or something. Thoughts?
(If someone wants to officially submit it then go nuts)
I guess if we are looking for other SRers that don't instantly lose to Starmie, Seismitoad potentially isn't a terrible option. Sure its "lol Seismitoad" but it walls the fictional Starmie, gives us a rock resist for Terrak, walls Zapdos and deters Garchomp with Ice Beam / Ice Punch / Icy Wind. Also can take most of Rotom-Ws moveset but it prolly won't switch in lol.
I don't know what the set would look like, but something like SR / Toxic / Ice Attack / Water Attack could be ok or something. Thoughts?
(If someone wants to officially submit it then go nuts)
I'd say go for 252 HP / 40 Atk / 60 Def / 156 SpD Relaxed if you really want those Atk EVs. This avoids the OHKO from Zapdos's Heat Wave (yours doesn't), is not 2HKO'd by Garchomp's EQ after Rocks, and is more bulky than yours both physically and specially while preserving the "attacking prowess". I don't see any other benchmark worth hitting, however if you find some just play around with Def and SpD EVs, just don't remove HP EVs which is generally a bad idea.
While balloon terrakion seems a good idea, there is one major issue with that, in that we are making team 1 ridiculously weak to Scizor at present, which I'm not sure is a good idea at this stage, especially given kyurem-B locking itself into outrage, and just a general lack of fire attacks to hit it with.
I think Homeslice has the best idea with celebi so far, except i'd prefer to see HP fire over HP ice to deal with scizor. Although painful, team 1 can sack landorus-I to force garchomp into outrage, while the celebi put forward can at least swap into Rotom-W, which I would consider the most concerning at present due to how difficult it is to switch in against it (Or at least, I believe so).
As for dealing with scizor, I would be rather shocked if team 2 did not pick it for their 5th pick. We really are in a bit of trouble, especially from such a core that pivots so well, with scizor added to it only to further team 1's woes while dealing with Kyurem-B.
I think Homeslice has the best idea with celebi so far, except i'd prefer to see HP fire over HP ice to deal with scizor. Although painful, team 1 can sack landorus-I to force garchomp into outrage, while the celebi put forward can at least swap into Rotom-W, which I would consider the most concerning at present due to how difficult it is to switch in against it (Or at least, I believe so).
As for dealing with scizor, I would be rather shocked if team 2 did not pick it for their 5th pick. We really are in a bit of trouble, especially from such a core that pivots so well, with scizor added to it only to further team 1's woes while dealing with Kyurem-B.
Wouldn't work. Team #2 then counterpicks with Scarf Scizor and we are no better off. Also doesn't fix the issue of signal beam Starmie, which can and will spin our SR, will beat Celebi, and be a pain to switch into for everything else. I am less concerned with a Scizor pick, especially if its a last pick, since we can counter it with a Skarmory / U-Turn resist / mag etc etc. Scizor is pretty predictable, and while on paper it looks frustrating, in practise we would be able to counterpick it fairly easily I think.
Ok, so implementing ganj4lf and deidarasenpai's suggestions, this is the new set:
FINAL SUBMISSION
Ferrothorn@Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 60 Def / 156 SpD
Nature: Relaxed
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes/Bulldoze
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
This set can counter a lot of stuff. Firstly, it dissuades the most common rapid spinners(Tentacruel and Starmie) with Bulldoze and Power Whip respectively.
Thanks to the better EV spread, this can take on hits better,taking just a little(barely 0.7-1.2) more from Chomp and keeping the Special Bulk which makes it a monster on the field. Spikes on the other hand makes it an ideal lead, letting it easily set up SR and a layer of Spikes or maybe even 2 before getting KOed, allowing it to make victory easier for team 1. 94 Atk is nothing to scoff at, and Ferro Gyro Ball hits a lot of things hard, allowing it to tank a hit and pick off a weakened Terrakion.
The disadvantage is that it's not immune to E quake like Terrakion is, but all that being said it makes sure that SR is a lot harder to get rid off, which makes Zapdos amongst other mons less effective.
Once again, feel free to criticize and comment on the set as we work to make it better and better.
Thanks a lot guys!
Vyomov
FINAL SUBMISSION
Ferrothorn@Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Atk / 60 Def / 156 SpD
Nature: Relaxed
IVs: 0 Spd
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes/Bulldoze
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
This set can counter a lot of stuff. Firstly, it dissuades the most common rapid spinners(Tentacruel and Starmie) with Bulldoze and Power Whip respectively.
Thanks to the better EV spread, this can take on hits better,taking just a little(barely 0.7-1.2) more from Chomp and keeping the Special Bulk which makes it a monster on the field. Spikes on the other hand makes it an ideal lead, letting it easily set up SR and a layer of Spikes or maybe even 2 before getting KOed, allowing it to make victory easier for team 1. 94 Atk is nothing to scoff at, and Ferro Gyro Ball hits a lot of things hard, allowing it to tank a hit and pick off a weakened Terrakion.
The disadvantage is that it's not immune to E quake like Terrakion is, but all that being said it makes sure that SR is a lot harder to get rid off, which makes Zapdos amongst other mons less effective.
Once again, feel free to criticize and comment on the set as we work to make it better and better.
Thanks a lot guys!
Vyomov
@futuresuperstar
Azelf doesn't learn Ice Beam.
@Heist
Well Charge Beam Claydol is not as retarded as it sounds, at least on this project, as it can slowly setup on Skarmory while spining away its hazards. Also, if we give it HP Fire, it can 3HKO Skarmory at +1, which is not bad at all, considering that Skarmory can only 5HKO back. Of 'course Claydol has troubles with Starmie, and this is a problem, but we can still go for a Ferrothorn pick as our last one, to wall both Rotom-W and any potential Starmie pick, as well as provide Spikes support. We could even give Rocky Helemt to Ferro to fuck up Starmie even more. I like Claydol because it does many things for team 1, especialy spinning, which will be important as our scarfer is weak to SR. I still prefer Baloon Terrakion, i won't lie, but Claydol seems as a good option too atm, and i still want to hear opinions about which move should i put in the last slot.
As for Azelf, which seems as a very good pick too, Psyshock + Fire Blast + U-turn + SR Azelf seems as the best set for us atm. U-turn is to avoid getting walled by any potential Starmie and Lati@s picks, Fire Blast is needed for Skarmory, and Pyshsock 2HKOes Zapdos, Rotom-W, and OHKOes Terrakion. We don't really need a move to OHKO Garchomp, as Garchomp can only kill back with Outrage and if it does it is going to be revenge killed by Kyu-B.
Finally, Ferrothorn is not a good pick as +2 Chomp easily 2HKOes with EQ. We need something that forces Chomp to use Outrage.
Azelf doesn't learn Ice Beam.
@Heist
Well Charge Beam Claydol is not as retarded as it sounds, at least on this project, as it can slowly setup on Skarmory while spining away its hazards. Also, if we give it HP Fire, it can 3HKO Skarmory at +1, which is not bad at all, considering that Skarmory can only 5HKO back. Of 'course Claydol has troubles with Starmie, and this is a problem, but we can still go for a Ferrothorn pick as our last one, to wall both Rotom-W and any potential Starmie pick, as well as provide Spikes support. We could even give Rocky Helemt to Ferro to fuck up Starmie even more. I like Claydol because it does many things for team 1, especialy spinning, which will be important as our scarfer is weak to SR. I still prefer Baloon Terrakion, i won't lie, but Claydol seems as a good option too atm, and i still want to hear opinions about which move should i put in the last slot.
As for Azelf, which seems as a very good pick too, Psyshock + Fire Blast + U-turn + SR Azelf seems as the best set for us atm. U-turn is to avoid getting walled by any potential Starmie and Lati@s picks, Fire Blast is needed for Skarmory, and Pyshsock 2HKOes Zapdos, Rotom-W, and OHKOes Terrakion. We don't really need a move to OHKO Garchomp, as Garchomp can only kill back with Outrage and if it does it is going to be revenge killed by Kyu-B.
Finally, Ferrothorn is not a good pick as +2 Chomp easily 2HKOes with EQ. We need something that forces Chomp to use Outrage.
I'm beginning to think this might be a good idea.
Espeon @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SpA / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Ice
- Baton Pass
- Reflect
This can switch into Garchomp no matter what with its Focus Sash intact, reflecting back its Stealth Rock and OHKOing most of the time. It outspeeds both Garchomp and Terrakion and can OHKO both with HP Ice and Psychic respectively. My only problem is that it gets worked over by Scizor, which we want to avoid, but that can be remedied to an extent by the final pick. Here's some calcs:
252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 352-416 (98.32 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 320-380 (98.76 - 117.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Rotom-W: 138-163 (45.54 - 53.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 226+ SpD Zapdos: 122-144 (31.77 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It doesn't really help with Zapdos admittedly but at most it can get Reflect up to help with their physical attackers and most likely Scizor. It can Baton Pass to stop Pursuit trapping too, its just a shame Espeon's attacking movepool is so shallow.
Espeon @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SpA / 4 HP
Nature: Timid
- Psychic
- Hidden Power Ice
- Baton Pass
- Reflect
This can switch into Garchomp no matter what with its Focus Sash intact, reflecting back its Stealth Rock and OHKOing most of the time. It outspeeds both Garchomp and Terrakion and can OHKO both with HP Ice and Psychic respectively. My only problem is that it gets worked over by Scizor, which we want to avoid, but that can be remedied to an extent by the final pick. Here's some calcs:
252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 352-416 (98.32 - 116.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Terrakion: 320-380 (98.76 - 117.28%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Rotom-W: 138-163 (45.54 - 53.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Espeon Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 226+ SpD Zapdos: 122-144 (31.77 - 37.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It doesn't really help with Zapdos admittedly but at most it can get Reflect up to help with their physical attackers and most likely Scizor. It can Baton Pass to stop Pursuit trapping too, its just a shame Espeon's attacking movepool is so shallow.
I'm having a look at the teams again and I have to say, I'm not sure team 2 will go with the rapid spinner, or if they do, it will have to have some electrical immunity.
Why do I think this? At the moment, Kyurem-B is really difficult already for team 2 unless they pick a steel type to sponge outrage. However, a secondary problem for team 2 is once garchomp falls, there is nothing to stop kyruem-B spamming bolt strike without something being 2HKO'd (in other words, something is dying horribly). It is not entirely out of the question for team 1 to sack Lando-I to garchomp in order to force it into outrage, get revenged by kyurem through ice beam (or possibly our last pick), and then have no way to avoid kyurem spamming bolt strike rather than outrage, which could be taken advantage of by said steel type.
The only other way I can think of for team 2 to avoid that scenario is to use their last picks on starmie and a scarfed jolly landorus-T, which has it's own problems with safely switching in (ice beam from kyurem-b).
Why do I think this? At the moment, Kyurem-B is really difficult already for team 2 unless they pick a steel type to sponge outrage. However, a secondary problem for team 2 is once garchomp falls, there is nothing to stop kyruem-B spamming bolt strike without something being 2HKO'd (in other words, something is dying horribly). It is not entirely out of the question for team 1 to sack Lando-I to garchomp in order to force it into outrage, get revenged by kyurem through ice beam (or possibly our last pick), and then have no way to avoid kyurem spamming bolt strike rather than outrage, which could be taken advantage of by said steel type.
The only other way I can think of for team 2 to avoid that scenario is to use their last picks on starmie and a scarfed jolly landorus-T, which has it's own problems with safely switching in (ice beam from kyurem-b).
There are plenty of viable picks that team 2 can make to deal with Kyu-B and still have room for a spinner. They could go for Cobalion + Starmie, Forretress + whatever offensive Pokemon they want, etc.
Seeing as there is almost zero support for Claydol and that nobody posted this set, i will:
Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
- Psyshock
- Fire Blast
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
Everything has been explained, and Azelf really does a good job of putting up pressure on team 1, while also outspeeding any potential Lati@s pick and hitting it hard with U-turn, something that Terrakion can't do.
For the moment i will leave Azelf as my nomination, but if more people support Claydol i can definitely change my nomination. Kyurem-B seems to be quite a strong card in the hands of team 1 atm, and leaving it without the proper support seems as a waste, and this is why i think we need Rapid Spin support. We could always fit a spinner on the last slot, but do we really want to spend our last pick for a spinner, when we could take advantage of the flaws that team 2 has with Pokemon that threatens to sweep team 2?
Fuck an intro
Krookodile@Leftovers
EV's: 252 Hp/252 Def/4 SpD
Trait: Intimidate
Impish Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Crunch
-Dragon Claw
Since I took too long to post my long ass explanation, I got logged out when I tried to post and lost everything. I wanted to pick a pokemon that could use both Intimidate and Stealth Rock. The only possible users are Lando-T which we can't pick, Mawile who takes a shit ton from EQ, and Krookodile. Krook avoids the 2HKO from Outrage and sets up SR easily. It can than use Dragon Claw after setting up SR to chip away at Chomp's health. Worst case scenario is that Chomp kills Krook after a SD and is locked into Outrage, which turns out to be perfect for Kyu-B to revenge kill the locked in Garchomp. I have Crunch for the possible Starmie selection so that it can't easily come in to spin. Crunch can be a liability since if terrakion switches in, we will have to bring Kyu-B in to revenge kill that.
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 153-181 (38.83 - 45.93%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 129-152 (32.74 - 38.57%) -- 63.94% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 286-339 (72.58 - 86.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 343-406 (87.05 - 103.04%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 354-416 (89.84 - 105.58%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The Krook is surprisingly bulky enough to possibly take a CC to the face. Here are its offensive stats:
0 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 270-320 (83.33 - 98.76%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
After a CC, it is an OHKO if it manages to survive
0 Atk Krookodile Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 138-164 (38.54 - 45.81%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
This turns into a 2HKO after a round of LO recoil.
0 Atk Krookodile Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 228-270 (87.35 - 103.44%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And starmie cannot switch in really. I'm thinking about using Torment so that Skarmory cannot set up all of its hazards as easily instead of DC since it nearly does the same to Garchomp as EQ. I'll go into further detail later. Questions, comments, criticism?
Krookodile@Leftovers
EV's: 252 Hp/252 Def/4 SpD
Trait: Intimidate
Impish Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Crunch
-Dragon Claw
Since I took too long to post my long ass explanation, I got logged out when I tried to post and lost everything. I wanted to pick a pokemon that could use both Intimidate and Stealth Rock. The only possible users are Lando-T which we can't pick, Mawile who takes a shit ton from EQ, and Krookodile. Krook avoids the 2HKO from Outrage and sets up SR easily. It can than use Dragon Claw after setting up SR to chip away at Chomp's health. Worst case scenario is that Chomp kills Krook after a SD and is locked into Outrage, which turns out to be perfect for Kyu-B to revenge kill the locked in Garchomp. I have Crunch for the possible Starmie selection so that it can't easily come in to spin. Crunch can be a liability since if terrakion switches in, we will have to bring Kyu-B in to revenge kill that.
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 153-181 (38.83 - 45.93%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 129-152 (32.74 - 38.57%) -- 63.94% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 286-339 (72.58 - 86.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 343-406 (87.05 - 103.04%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Krookodile: 354-416 (89.84 - 105.58%) -- 68.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
The Krook is surprisingly bulky enough to possibly take a CC to the face. Here are its offensive stats:
0 Atk Krookodile Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 270-320 (83.33 - 98.76%) -- 31.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
After a CC, it is an OHKO if it manages to survive
0 Atk Krookodile Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 138-164 (38.54 - 45.81%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
This turns into a 2HKO after a round of LO recoil.
0 Atk Krookodile Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 228-270 (87.35 - 103.44%) -- 93.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
And starmie cannot switch in really. I'm thinking about using Torment so that Skarmory cannot set up all of its hazards as easily instead of DC since it nearly does the same to Garchomp as EQ. I'll go into further detail later. Questions, comments, criticism?
Krookodile is a bad idea for 3 reasons:
1. Garchomp 2HKOes with +2 EQ. We want something to handle EQs from Garchomp as it is really a problem atm. Krookodile gets easily 2HKOed and can't even do anything significant back
2. Krookodile is massive Spikes bait
3. Krookodile is very easy to spin against with Forretress, which would be a very viable pick for team 2, especially the SpD variant, which would basically wall 3/5 of team 1 (Kyu-B, Jirachi, and Krookodile). This means that SR will be really hard to keep up, and thus Landorus will get neutered by Zapdos
1. Garchomp 2HKOes with +2 EQ. We want something to handle EQs from Garchomp as it is really a problem atm. Krookodile gets easily 2HKOed and can't even do anything significant back
2. Krookodile is massive Spikes bait
3. Krookodile is very easy to spin against with Forretress, which would be a very viable pick for team 2, especially the SpD variant, which would basically wall 3/5 of team 1 (Kyu-B, Jirachi, and Krookodile). This means that SR will be really hard to keep up, and thus Landorus will get neutered by Zapdos
I'll delete my Azelf for stupidly thinking it got Ice Beam, haha. I would have made the change to U-Turn, anyway, which alex just posted.
Yea I had that third point in mind about Forretress when i was trying to think of a move set. It gets fire fang but im pretty sure it still does pitiful damage.
As for the spikes bait comment, that's why I was thinking about replacing DC with Torment so that a Spikes user couldn't just lay down 3 layers so easily.
As far as the first point, well you got me on that one then. The only viable things I can think for the criteria of taking ground attacks are levitate users and possibly Xatu to bounce back SR, but most of them are frail or can't chomp back hard.
As for the spikes bait comment, that's why I was thinking about replacing DC with Torment so that a Spikes user couldn't just lay down 3 layers so easily.
As far as the first point, well you got me on that one then. The only viable things I can think for the criteria of taking ground attacks are levitate users and possibly Xatu to bounce back SR, but most of them are frail or can't chomp back hard.
I'm not sure Starmie is too big a threat at the moment for us to be stacking it on top of everything else as a requirement for this pick. Team 2 only has two picks left and one of them will likely be a Scarfmon which means they'll have to account for the new Scarf Kyurem as well as the current SR setter. Even if they do manage to find a way to do that with with Starmie being one of the two picks, Team 1 still has that last pick that can be used to counter Starmie. There are quite a few options available such as Jellicent, Tyranitar, Weavile, Scizor and others that I don't think it's too large a concern.
Concerning Terrakion, offensive Starmie is risking 70% from a Stone Edge while even the defensive set will have to spend a turn healing off the 60%. (on top of being considerably weaker offensively speaking)
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 186-220 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 186-220 (71.26 - 84.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Concerning Terrakion, offensive Starmie is risking 70% from a Stone Edge while even the defensive set will have to spend a turn healing off the 60%. (on top of being considerably weaker offensively speaking)
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 186-220 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 186-220 (71.26 - 84.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I honestly think that my Espeon set isn't a bad idea. Air Balloon Terrak is probably the best idea, or Alex's Azelf. We need something that can maintain offensive pressure and force Garchomp into the Outrage. Stealth Rock is almost a necessity, as it helps immensely against Zapdos. Xatu could have been a good idea if it had more of an offensive presence. I think Azelf is a great choice, because of its blazing speed and great offensive stats. Starmie only poses the threat of a spin, as otherwise it is weak and easily dealt with by Kyu-B. (Sorry if you feel like I'm intruding, I've lurked for a while)
Right now, I think I'm liking Alex's Azelf the most, followed by Balloon Terrakion.