Abomasnow

Don Honchkrorleone

Don Honchkrorleone

Happy Qwilfish the nightmare
is a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnus
This thread is for discussing our beloved but overlooked frost tree and the Hail in GenV. Sorry if there is a thread like this, but I couldn't find any.

460.png

Abomasnow #460
Type: Grass/Ice
Gender Ratio: 50:50
Egg Group: Monster/Plant
Stats: 90 HP/92 Atk/75 Def/92 SpA/85 SpD/60 Spe
Abilities: Snow Warming: Summons a hailstorm when entering in the field.
Soundproof (DW): This pokémon cannot be affected by sound-based moves.

Moves:
New moves in Italic

Lv.-: Ice Punch
Lv.-: Powder Snow
Lv.-: Leer
Lv.-: Razor Leaf
Lv.-: Icy Wind
Lv.5: Razor Leaf
Lv.9: Icy Wind
Lv.13: Grasswhistle
Lv.17: Swagger
Lv.21: Mist
Lv.26: Ice Shard
Lv.31: Ingrain
Lv.36: Wood Hammer
Lv.47: Blizzard
Lv.58: Sheer Cold

TMs:
TM06: Toxic
TM07: Hail
TM10: Hidden Power
TM13: Ice Beam
TM14: Blizzard
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM16: Light Screen
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM20: Safeguard
TM21: Frustration
TM22: Solarbeam
TM26: Earthquake
TM27: Return
TM30: Shadow Ball
TM31: Brick Break
TM32: Double Team
TM39: Rock Tomb
TM42: Facade
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM48: Troll
TM52: Focus Blast
TM53: Energy Ball
TM56: Fling
TM68: Giga Impact
TM70: Flash
TM75: Swords Dance
TM78: Level Ground
TM79: Ice Breath
TM80: Rock Slide
TM86: Grass Knot
TM87: Swagger
TM90: Substitute
TM94: Rock Smash
HM04: Strength

Breeding:
Leech Seed
Magical Leaf
Seed Bomb
Growth
Double-Edge
Stomp
Natural Gift
Skull Bash
Avalanche
Bullet Seed

GenIV only moves:
Focus Punch
Water Pulse
Giga Drain
Iron Tail
Secret Power
Endure
Captivate
Sleep Talk
Rock Climb
Snore
Synthesis
Mud-Slap
Outrage
Worry Seed
Role Play
Block
Headbutt

Overview

When GenV started, there was a lot of speculation about two pokémon because their abilities with the weather: Politoed and Ninetales. Several people were discussing about the new "weather king" ,if will be Sun (Drought Ninetales), Rain (Drizzle Politoed) or Sandstorm (Sand Stream Tyranitar and Hippowdon). Well, they were forgetting one, a big and overlooked monster tree that can bring the most overlooked weather: Abomasnow. Gen V gave a hope of life turning Yeti the only pokémon with Snow Warming ability, which turns the weather an eternal hailstorm, meaning that outside using Hail, there's no form of the Hail weather be present. Other than that, Yeti got only the both attacks-raise Growth (Raises +2 in Sun, but Abomasnow hates Sun).

Yes, aside the above-mentioned things, Abomasnow got nothing, but the metagame got a lot. New powerful Fires (Hihidaruma, Victini), Bugs (Agurida, Ulgamoth), Flyers (Wargle), Steels (Nattorei, Kobauron), Fighters (All the new-introduced), as well new Poison moves (Venom Shock, Clear Smog, Acid Bomb) will probably make Abomasnow's life miserable again. Even some old ones like Ninetales, Venomoth and Miltank and even the ever useful Stealth Rock got things that threaten Yeti more than before. It's a cruel world.

However, Yeti has its selling points. His SubSeed is awesomely useful and he has the niche of getting rid of Politoed and his crappy downpour. He also serves as a check for Hippowdon that tries to make SS swallow the field. His type also allows him to come into most Water, Electric and Ground moves, crippling most of the aforementioned moves' users.And with the new dragons, flyers and grounds roaming around, STAB Blizzard is more useful than before. Overall, Abomasnow will retain his niche of bringing hail and spamming strong blizzards. A good and fearsome poké if played correctly.

Possible movesets I can remember now:

@Focus Sash
Ability: Snow Warming
Quiet Nature/Brave Nature
Evs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 SpA

~ Blizzard
~ Ice Shard
~ Earthquake
~ Protect /Wood Hammer

Abomasnow lead to hail begins. I actually don't like to lead with the SubSeed or the Scarfed, so I use this to put Hail under effect early. Blizzard will never miss in Hail and its quite powerful coming from 92 base SpA. Ice Shard serves for the sole purpose of taking out defensive weak Sash users like Aerodactyl and Azelf, as well the Genies. Earthquake covers Ice nicely, as only Bronzong and Surskit resist both Ground and Ice without help of Magnet Rise. The last slot is if you want to bypass Fake Out and stall a bit (Protect) or if you want to kill Swampert and Politoed (Wood Hammer).

@Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warming
Calm Nature
Evs: 252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD

~ Substitute
~ Leech Seed
~ Blizzard
~ Focus Punch/Protect

The classical and annoying SubSeed Yeti is back for a new Generation. Substitute, Leech Seed and then watch your non-Grass, non-Liquid Ooze and non-Magic Guard foe perish to Leech Seed, Hail damage and, if present, Toxic Spikes. Blizzard sends Grasses to the hell. A cold and dark hell. In the last slot, Focus Punch, albeit physical with a Calm Nature, lets you make a good damage to some Steels, Blissey, Snorlax and Tyranitar, while Protect lets you stall a bit more. Works great with Burunkeru.

@Choice Scarf
Ability: Snow Warming
Hasty Nature
Evs: 140 Atk/116 SpA/252 Spe

~ Blizzard
~ Wood Hammer
~ Earthquake
~ HP Fire

A good revenge killer while holding a Choice Scarf. Blizzard and Wood Hammer are very powerful STAB moves that can open holes in the opponent's team. Earthquake is Earthquake. No explanation needed. HP Fire works for that Steels that aren't totally handicapped by Earthquake. Can work as a Hail lead if you want.

@Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warming
Quiet Nature/Brave Nature
Evs: 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 SpD

~ Blizzard
~ Wood Hammer/Grass Knot
~ Earthquake
~ Ice Shard/HP Fire

Even though he's weak to Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch, Abomasnow works pretty well in a Trick Room team with his low Spe. Blizzard you already know. Your other STAB is if you want to beat the things physically (Wood Hammer) or specially (Grass Knot). The former is generally preferred, but if you're fighting against a TR opposite team, use the latter as most of the abusers are heavy and has considerably lower SpD (Rypherior, Whishcash, Crawdaunt). Earthquake is coverage. Ice Shard is preferred in the last slot when the effect of TR finishes, but you can also use HP Fire for more coverage.

@Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warming
Adamant Nature/Jolly Nature
Evs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe

~ Swords Dance
~ Ice Shard/Ice Punch
~ Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb
~ Earthquake

Abomasnow has two forms of boosting his attacking stats. The first form is via Swords Dance, that only boosts its Atk. Since he won't use his SpA anymore, Blizzard became unnapealing, so you have to stick with either Ice Shard or Ice Punch. The former (almost) always hits first, while the latter is more powerful with 10% chance of freezing. Wood Hammer is your main Grass STAB, but you may opt for Seed Bomb because recoil+LO = Quick Death. The power drop is significant, though. Finally you have Earthquake because it's physical and gets good coverage.

@Life Orb
Ability: Snow Warming
Hasty Nature/Mild Nature
Evs: 116 Atk/140 SpA/252 Spe

~ Growth
~ Blizzard
~ Wood Hammer/Eartquake
~ Earthquake/HP Fire/Substitute

The second form of Abomasnow raise his offensive stats is via Growth, which now raises your both attacks by one level (+2 if Sun, but you need to switch when the Sun takes place). Once you boosted your offenses, attack like there's no tomorrow. Blizzard, again you don't need explanation. Your third move is crucial for the set. Wood Hammer is for sheer power and a "screw you, Waters" move, but you can drop your other STAB to put a coverage move like so many other pokémon do (Like Gengar, Metagross, Latios, Doryuuzu, Nidoking and Dragonite to name a few) using Earthquake. If the third slot was tricky, the fourth is even trickier. Earthquake was already explained, HP Fire makes Scizor cry somewhat and threaten Foretress and Nattorei, and finally Substitute makes you somewhat avoid some attacks while growing.

@ Large Root / Leftovers
252 Def, 4 Sp.A, 252 SpD
Nature: Calm (+SpD, - Atk)
Ability: Snow Warning

- Magic Coat [HGSS move-tutor]
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain [HGSS TM] / Light Screen / Protect
- Blizzard

With no HP investment and Large Root, Abomasnow should heal a large portion of its HP.

Magic Coat works against many attacks including Taunt, Stealth Rock, W-o-w, and even Whirlwind. Leech Seed allows Abomasnow to Stall foes for damage while healing back HP, as does Giga Drain. With Giga Drain's boost in power, combined with Leech Seed, Abomasnow can take advantage of Large Root to stay healthy. Blizzard is simply for power, and can aid Abomasnow in hitting Grass, Dragon, and Flying types that resist Giga Drain.

Large Root can be replaced by Leftovers, and Giga Drain can be replaced with Light Screen / Protect to promote sustainability [in order to maintain Hail].
You can also use CB and Specs, but it's hard to be locked in a Grass or an Ice move. It's set-up bait for the enemy.

Feel free to discuss, post movesets and admins, to close if there's something wrong.
 
Oh, it's President Obamasnow. Unfortunately, I've been having a hell of a time building a proper hail-stall team this gen.

First of all, any and all Obamasnow leads should be armed with Magic Coat. He is mainly used on hail teams, and he doesn't want his teammates crippled by rocks.

Is there any possible reason why he would want Tension over Snow Warning? I can see a gimmick of beating out Yache Berries, but not much else.
 
Soundproof? Really, Game Freak?

Abomasnow doesn't look like it has changed from last generation. It is pretty nice in that it can usually beat Hippowdon one on one, given the renewed popularity of Sandstorm teams.

Edit: Growth doesn't seem that useful to me. Abomasnow is quite vulnerable to priority moves in general. Basically, it has less-than-ideal defenses to use Growth. I would personally rather use Swords Dance to beef up Ice Shard more, and Blizzard can still do respectable damage without a boost.
 
Looks like the only new thing Abomasnow can make use of is Growth. His attacking stats are decent, but a nice boost to each will probably be a boon to him. I think Protect is the preferred option on the last slot in the last set, as his wonderful typing lets opponents stop him easily (Scizor, Heatran, Metagross, Shanderaa… with Ice/Grass, he has tons of counters). His sub-par defensive stats also let him down here (he's a yeti-tree fochrissakes. Why are his stats so underwhelming?). Protect can save you for a little bit so you can try to set up, anyway. If that Hail rumor from way back when turned out to be true where Ice Types' Defense is boosted and Ice attacks are also boosted, then Abomasnow could've made for a pretty good all-arounder. Bu there's no sense in talking about what could've been, though GF does elicit those thoughts because of its trolliness.

Also, does anyone know why a radish and a pine tree would get Soundproof? It doesn't make any sense aesthetically, and it doesn't let him fill any niches nor does it allow him to do his job better. Maybe it can let him stay in to use Growth, but that's all I can think of. But then you wouldn't want to use the Growth set because your Blizzard would be inaccurate.
 
SupremeDirt said:
Oh, it's President Obamasnow. Unfortunately, I've been having a hell of a time building a proper hail-stall team this gen.

First of all, any and all Obamasnow leads should be armed with Magic Coat. He is mainly used on hail teams, and he doesn't want his teammates crippled by rocks.

Is there any possible reason why he would want Tension over Snow Warning? I can see a gimmick of beating out Yache Berries, but not much else.
Click to expand...
Didn't remember that he learned Magic Coat. Thank you, I'll add now.

Also, don't you think that Hail should get a boost in this generation? Sandstorm got Sand Power and Sand Scatter, while already having Sand Veil and the 50% Rock-types SpD boost. Rain boosts the accuracy of Thunder, weakens Fire while raises Water moves, and works good with Hydration, Swift Swim and Rain Dish. Sun is great for SolarBeam and, raising the power of Fire and weakening Water-Moves and for Growth, that now raises +2 both attacks while Sunny Day.It also pairs well with Clorophyl, Solar Power, Leaf Guard and the Cherrim exclusive Flower Gift.

What does Hail have? Blizzard and Snow Cloak. Hoping for Gen VI bringing a new Hail effect.

Noble Cactus said:
Also, does anyone know why a radish and a pine tree would get Soundproof? It doesn't make any sense aesthetically, and it doesn't let him fill any niches nor does it allow him to do his job better.
Click to expand...
Well... maybe because trees are deaf :). Immunity to Roar is quite good, but Whirlwind is more common that Roar, and with the new Overhead Throw (SE) and Dragon Tail, turning Roar almost useless (still good in things like Swampert and Hippowdon). At least he's also immune to Chatter and Bug Buzz, which are SE on him. Harvest would be awesome on him.

EDIT: It also blocks Perish Song, Hyper Voice and Heal Bell if analyzed by a competitive point of view. All the rest are bad moves like Snore and Supersonic.
 
Hoping for Gen VI bringing a new Hail effect.
Click to expand...
gen 6 already?

I was thinking about playing around with this guy as a revenge killer to doryzuu, as with a choice scarf it is probably one of the most reliable revenge killers to it, usually disrupting the rest of the team's strategy as well.
 
Well, a hail buff may be in store even for the third game or if GF does any remakes (R/S/E yupyup). After all, the Rock SpDef buff didn't come about until HgSs, I believe.

And yes, Harvest would work well on him. What berries could be used though? An anti-elemental berry seems pointless because he still has 6 other weaknesses, so some form of sub-berry (i.e., Salac) strategy could work.
 
Noble Cactus said:
Well, a hail buff may be in store even for the third game or if GF does any remakes (R/S/E yupyup). After all, the Rock SpDef buff didn't come about until HgSs, I believe.

And yes, Harvest would work well on him. What berries could be used though? An anti-elemental berry seems pointless because he still has 6 other weaknesses, so some form of sub-berry (i.e., Salac) strategy could work.
Click to expand...
It was early DP that SS SpD Rock boost started to happen.

Also, Enigma Berry would do wonders if he had Harvest, as it does with Exeggutor (When hit by a SE attack, while holding Enigma Berry, it recovers 25% of the health). Cursed Game Freak. Why did GF give Soundproof to him, why?
 
Oh, I see. Yeah, a boost coming in near the end of a generation is silly anyway.

Hmmm, I didn't think of Enigma Berry. With Snow's plethora of weaknesses, that would've been great on him (Exeggutor has a similar weakness problem). Troll Freak.

Also, does anyone else think he should've gotten Icicle Drop? Mamo and Cloyster are the only two Pokémon to get it.
 
I tried really hard to make a Hail team just to support Kyuremu, but I've failed each and every single time. Seeing a Forry lead is like the beginning of the end. Then if your opponent sends out a Ttar...*shudders*

Aboma itself makes a decent lead, since the metagame has shifted toward slow and bulky SR leads, with a Deoxys here or there, but making a good hail team is hard as nuts with the other weather setters and their infinitely better Pokemon dominating the playing field.
 
Other than the post mentioned above, I don't really see a use of Soundproof on Abomasnow, especially considering the fact that no new Pokemon got Snow Warning.
 
Abomasnow is still pretty bad (except on hail stall teams) but it makes a great check to other auto weather inducers. Here's a weather stopper set:

@ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/132 SAtk/120 Atk/4 Spd
Sassy Nature
Snow Warning
-Wood Hammer (Stops Politoed/Hippowdon/Tyranitar)
-Substitue
-Earthquake (Stops Ninetails and Tyranitar)
-Ice Beam (Stops Hippowdon/Altaria/Rayquaza.....maybe) (Used becaus it's used for killing the dragons that cancel weather, making Blizzad 70%)

EDIT:Replaced Focus Blast with Ice Beam. Added a nature.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
Abomasnow is still pretty bad (except on hail stall teams) but it makes a great check to other auto weather inducers. Here's a weather stopper set:

@ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/132 SAtk/120 Atk/4 Spd
Snow Warning
-Wood Hammer (Stops Politoed/Hippowdon/Tyranitar)
-Substitue
-Earthquake (Stops Ninetails and Tyranitar)
-Focus Blast (Stops Tyranitar)
Click to expand...
I'd rather have Blizzard over Focus Blast on that set.
 
Kyuremu really should have got Snow Warning - hell, Hail needed something better too.

Oh well, it seems to me Hail is even less viable this gen than it was before. Which is such a shame.
 
smashlloyd20 said:
Abomasnow is still pretty bad (except on hail stall teams) but it makes a great check to other auto weather inducers. Here's a weather stopper set:

@ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/132 SAtk/120 Atk/4 Spd
Snow Warning
-Wood Hammer (Stops Politoed/Hippowdon/Tyranitar)
-Substitue
-Earthquake (Stops Ninetails and Tyranitar)
-Focus Blast (Stops Tyranitar)
Click to expand...
With Sassy nature, I think. I'd take out Focus Blast to put Ice Punch or Ice Beam because there's one overlooked pokémon that may also fuck the weather by cancelling its effects: Altaria. Altaria got Cloud Nine (Blizzard back to 70%) and, while it lost Outrage, it still has Fire Blast and other things to abuse. The only hope for Focus Blast is the 4x hit in Lickylicky (Cloud Nine) T-tar, but the latter is already weak to both EQ and Wood Hammer, and with the 70% accuracy, you may die. Not taking into account the SS SpD boost. Focus Punch or Brick Break can replace FB. Good set, anyway.

NDenizen said:
Kyuremu really should have got Snow Warning - hell, Hail needed something better too.

Oh well, it seems to me Hail is even less viable this gen than it was before. Which is such a shame.
Click to expand...
Maybe Pokémon Kyuremu version will remedy this. As Giratina got Levitate, Kyuremu may get Snow Warming. Or Pickup.
 
^^ why would it get pickup,trollfreaks trolling HARD this Gen and I'm positive they'll make him worse. And why does mamoswine get thick fat and this guy doesn't (soundproof my ass)
 
Growth does give him a potential status as a mixed attacker, but 7 weaknesses, weakness to Mach Punch, Vaccum Wave, and the ever looming threat of CB Scizor's technician STAB bullet punch , finding a time to set up and lack of bulk (besides it's rather impressive, but still "doesn't cut it" base 90 Hp stat) really put a dent in Abomasnow's sweeping capabilities... 100% accurate Blizzard and the role of an effective hail lead are still pretty fun to use though, espicially if you have effective hail abusers on your team.
 
Murkglow said:
Does it really matter what his dream world ability was? Snow Warning was always going to be better anyway.
Click to expand...

Pure Power Abomasnow and Wonder Guard Abomasnow and Speed Boost Abomasnow and Shadow Tag Abomasnow would like a word with you.

On the abilities that actually have flavor value, Harvest and Thick Fat are a fuckton more useful (and flavorful) than lolSoundproof.

To make this post have relevance to the thread, Soundproof has use if you feel like using Abomasnow without wanting that pesky hail ripping chunks out of your health. Like, for countering water types.

Or something.

This is more viable if you're using a physical set, as they don't use Blizzard, because it isn't physical.
 
Darkamber8828 said:
Pure Power Abomasnow and Wonder Guard Abomasnow and Speed Boost Abomasnow and Shadow Tag Abomasnow would like a word with you.
Click to expand...

Fine, I apologize, there are possible Abilities that could be better. Let me rephrase. Snow warning is almost always going to be better then any realistic DW abilities it might have gotten.

Darkamber8828 said:
On the abilities that actually have flavor value, Harvest and Thick Fat are a fuckton more useful (and flavorful) than lolSoundproof.
Click to expand...

Soundproof actually is quite good with him flavor-wise. Snow is often noted for dampening sound and just the general silence/stillness that comes with it. I rather like the flavor there actually.
Of course other abilities can also be flavorful (though Think Fat doesn't seem good flavor to me as being a plant he shouldn't have fat...).

Anyway, I like the idea of Magic Coat for Abom. Countering Taunt as well as a number of other icky moves could be quite nice.
 
Just to be that guy- my guess is that TrollFreak is referencing the whole "If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?" question- but this tree is soundproof. Get it?

Got nothing new and his weaknesses will do him in, just like last time. Growth could be cool though :D
 
scarf abomasnow makes a great check for doryuzuu, as long as it doesn't switch in on a rock slide or x scissor. He didn't get a whole lot knew this generation though. I guess he could run giga drain on a stally sort of set like the sub seeder, to get a bit more HP recovery, but aside from that most of his options are pretty much the same as last gen
 
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