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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Don Honchkrorleone, Oct 23, 2010.

  1. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    This thread is for discussing our beloved but overlooked frost tree and the Hail in GenV. Sorry if there is a thread like this, but I couldn't find any.

    Abomasnow #460
    Type: Grass/Ice
    Gender Ratio: 50:50
    Egg Group: Monster/Plant
    Stats: 90 HP/92 Atk/75 Def/92 SpA/85 SpD/60 Spe
    Abilities: Snow Warming: Summons a hailstorm when entering in the field.
    Soundproof (DW): This pokémon cannot be affected by sound-based moves.

    Show Hide

    New moves in Italic

    Lv.-: Ice Punch
    Lv.-: Powder Snow
    Lv.-: Leer
    Lv.-: Razor Leaf
    Lv.-: Icy Wind
    Lv.5: Razor Leaf
    Lv.9: Icy Wind
    Lv.13: Grasswhistle
    Lv.17: Swagger
    Lv.21: Mist
    Lv.26: Ice Shard
    Lv.31: Ingrain
    Lv.36: Wood Hammer
    Lv.47: Blizzard
    Lv.58: Sheer Cold

    Show Hide

    TM06: Toxic
    TM07: Hail
    TM10: Hidden Power
    TM13: Ice Beam
    TM14: Blizzard
    TM15: Hyper Beam
    TM16: Light Screen
    TM17: Protect
    TM18: Rain Dance
    TM20: Safeguard
    TM21: Frustration
    TM22: Solarbeam
    TM26: Earthquake
    TM27: Return
    TM30: Shadow Ball
    TM31: Brick Break
    TM32: Double Team
    TM39: Rock Tomb
    TM42: Facade
    TM44: Rest
    TM45: Attract
    TM48: Troll
    TM52: Focus Blast
    TM53: Energy Ball
    TM56: Fling
    TM68: Giga Impact
    TM70: Flash
    TM75: Swords Dance
    TM78: Level Ground
    TM79: Ice Breath
    TM80: Rock Slide
    TM86: Grass Knot
    TM87: Swagger
    TM90: Substitute
    TM94: Rock Smash
    HM04: Strength

    Show Hide

    Leech Seed
    Magical Leaf
    Seed Bomb
    Natural Gift
    Skull Bash
    Bullet Seed

    GenIV only moves:
    Show Hide

    Focus Punch
    Water Pulse
    Giga Drain
    Iron Tail
    Secret Power
    Sleep Talk
    Rock Climb
    Worry Seed
    Role Play


    When GenV started, there was a lot of speculation about two pokémon because their abilities with the weather: Politoed and Ninetales. Several people were discussing about the new "weather king" ,if will be Sun (Drought Ninetales), Rain (Drizzle Politoed) or Sandstorm (Sand Stream Tyranitar and Hippowdon). Well, they were forgetting one, a big and overlooked monster tree that can bring the most overlooked weather: Abomasnow. Gen V gave a hope of life turning Yeti the only pokémon with Snow Warming ability, which turns the weather an eternal hailstorm, meaning that outside using Hail, there's no form of the Hail weather be present. Other than that, Yeti got only the both attacks-raise Growth (Raises +2 in Sun, but Abomasnow hates Sun).

    Yes, aside the above-mentioned things, Abomasnow got nothing, but the metagame got a lot. New powerful Fires (Hihidaruma, Victini), Bugs (Agurida, Ulgamoth), Flyers (Wargle), Steels (Nattorei, Kobauron), Fighters (All the new-introduced), as well new Poison moves (Venom Shock, Clear Smog, Acid Bomb) will probably make Abomasnow's life miserable again. Even some old ones like Ninetales, Venomoth and Miltank and even the ever useful Stealth Rock got things that threaten Yeti more than before. It's a cruel world.

    However, Yeti has its selling points. His SubSeed is awesomely useful and he has the niche of getting rid of Politoed and his crappy downpour. He also serves as a check for Hippowdon that tries to make SS swallow the field. His type also allows him to come into most Water, Electric and Ground moves, crippling most of the aforementioned moves' users.And with the new dragons, flyers and grounds roaming around, STAB Blizzard is more useful than before. Overall, Abomasnow will retain his niche of bringing hail and spamming strong blizzards. A good and fearsome poké if played correctly.

    Possible movesets I can remember now:

    Ice chunks keep falling on my head (open)

    @Focus Sash
    Ability: Snow Warming
    Quiet Nature/Brave Nature
    Evs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 SpA

    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Ice Shard
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Protect /Wood Hammer

    Abomasnow lead to hail begins. I actually don't like to lead with the SubSeed or the Scarfed, so I use this to put Hail under effect early. Blizzard will never miss in Hail and its quite powerful coming from 92 base SpA. Ice Shard serves for the sole purpose of taking out defensive weak Sash users like Aerodactyl and Azelf, as well the Genies. Earthquake covers Ice nicely, as only Bronzong and Surskit resist both Ground and Ice without help of Magnet Rise. The last slot is if you want to bypass Fake Out and stall a bit (Protect) or if you want to kill Swampert and Politoed (Wood Hammer).

    Hail SubSeed! (open)

    Ability: Snow Warming
    Calm Nature
    Evs: 252 HP/4 SpA/252 SpD

    ~ Substitute
    ~ Leech Seed
    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Focus Punch/Protect

    The classical and annoying SubSeed Yeti is back for a new Generation. Substitute, Leech Seed and then watch your non-Grass, non-Liquid Ooze and non-Magic Guard foe perish to Leech Seed, Hail damage and, if present, Toxic Spikes. Blizzard sends Grasses to the hell. A cold and dark hell. In the last slot, Focus Punch, albeit physical with a Calm Nature, lets you make a good damage to some Steels, Blissey, Snorlax and Tyranitar, while Protect lets you stall a bit more. Works great with Burunkeru.

    Dear Santa Claus. For this Christmas (open)

    @Choice Scarf
    Ability: Snow Warming
    Hasty Nature
    Evs: 140 Atk/116 SpA/252 Spe

    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Wood Hammer
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ HP Fire

    A good revenge killer while holding a Choice Scarf. Blizzard and Wood Hammer are very powerful STAB moves that can open holes in the opponent's team. Earthquake is Earthquake. No explanation needed. HP Fire works for that Steels that aren't totally handicapped by Earthquake. Can work as a Hail lead if you want.

    Dear Santa Claus. For this Christmas (open)

    @Life Orb
    Ability: Snow Warming
    Quiet Nature/Brave Nature
    Evs: 252 Atk/252 SpA/4 SpD

    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Wood Hammer/Grass Knot
    ~ Earthquake
    ~ Ice Shard/HP Fire

    Even though he's weak to Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave and Mach Punch, Abomasnow works pretty well in a Trick Room team with his low Spe. Blizzard you already know. Your other STAB is if you want to beat the things physically (Wood Hammer) or specially (Grass Knot). The former is generally preferred, but if you're fighting against a TR opposite team, use the latter as most of the abusers are heavy and has considerably lower SpD (Rypherior, Whishcash, Crawdaunt). Earthquake is coverage. Ice Shard is preferred in the last slot when the effect of TR finishes, but you can also use HP Fire for more coverage.

    Swordsmaster from the cold mountains (open)

    @Life Orb
    Ability: Snow Warming
    Adamant Nature/Jolly Nature
    Evs: 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe

    ~ Swords Dance
    ~ Ice Shard/Ice Punch
    ~ Wood Hammer/Seed Bomb
    ~ Earthquake

    Abomasnow has two forms of boosting his attacking stats. The first form is via Swords Dance, that only boosts its Atk. Since he won't use his SpA anymore, Blizzard became unnapealing, so you have to stick with either Ice Shard or Ice Punch. The former (almost) always hits first, while the latter is more powerful with 10% chance of freezing. Wood Hammer is your main Grass STAB, but you may opt for Seed Bomb because recoil+LO = Quick Death. The power drop is significant, though. Finally you have Earthquake because it's physical and gets good coverage.

    Christmas tree with steroids (open)

    @Life Orb
    Ability: Snow Warming
    Hasty Nature/Mild Nature
    Evs: 116 Atk/140 SpA/252 Spe

    ~ Growth
    ~ Blizzard
    ~ Wood Hammer/Eartquake
    ~ Earthquake/HP Fire/Substitute

    The second form of Abomasnow raise his offensive stats is via Growth, which now raises your both attacks by one level (+2 if Sun, but you need to switch when the Sun takes place). Once you boosted your offenses, attack like there's no tomorrow. Blizzard, again you don't need explanation. Your third move is crucial for the set. Wood Hammer is for sheer power and a "screw you, Waters" move, but you can drop your other STAB to put a coverage move like so many other pokémon do (Like Gengar, Metagross, Latios, Doryuuzu, Nidoking and Dragonite to name a few) using Earthquake. If the third slot was tricky, the fourth is even trickier. Earthquake was already explained, HP Fire makes Scizor cry somewhat and threaten Foretress and Nattorei, and finally Substitute makes you somewhat avoid some attacks while growing.

    Stallasnow (open)

    @ Large Root / Leftovers
    252 Def, 4 Sp.A, 252 SpD
    Nature: Calm (+SpD, - Atk)
    Ability: Snow Warning

    - Magic Coat [HGSS move-tutor]
    - Leech Seed
    - Giga Drain [HGSS TM] / Light Screen / Protect
    - Blizzard

    With no HP investment and Large Root, Abomasnow should heal a large portion of its HP.

    Magic Coat works against many attacks including Taunt, Stealth Rock, W-o-w, and even Whirlwind. Leech Seed allows Abomasnow to Stall foes for damage while healing back HP, as does Giga Drain. With Giga Drain's boost in power, combined with Leech Seed, Abomasnow can take advantage of Large Root to stay healthy. Blizzard is simply for power, and can aid Abomasnow in hitting Grass, Dragon, and Flying types that resist Giga Drain.

    Large Root can be replaced by Leftovers, and Giga Drain can be replaced with Light Screen / Protect to promote sustainability [in order to maintain Hail].

    You can also use CB and Specs, but it's hard to be locked in a Grass or an Ice move. It's set-up bait for the enemy.

    Feel free to discuss, post movesets and admins, to close if there's something wrong.
  2. SupremeDirt


    Apr 15, 2009
    Oh, it's President Obamasnow. Unfortunately, I've been having a hell of a time building a proper hail-stall team this gen.

    First of all, any and all Obamasnow leads should be armed with Magic Coat. He is mainly used on hail teams, and he doesn't want his teammates crippled by rocks.

    Is there any possible reason why he would want Tension over Snow Warning? I can see a gimmick of beating out Yache Berries, but not much else.
  3. Focus

    Focus Ubers Tester Extraordinaire

    May 27, 2010
    Soundproof? Really, Game Freak?

    Abomasnow doesn't look like it has changed from last generation. It is pretty nice in that it can usually beat Hippowdon one on one, given the renewed popularity of Sandstorm teams.

    Edit: Growth doesn't seem that useful to me. Abomasnow is quite vulnerable to priority moves in general. Basically, it has less-than-ideal defenses to use Growth. I would personally rather use Swords Dance to beef up Ice Shard more, and Blizzard can still do respectable damage without a boost.
  4. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Looks like the only new thing Abomasnow can make use of is Growth. His attacking stats are decent, but a nice boost to each will probably be a boon to him. I think Protect is the preferred option on the last slot in the last set, as his wonderful typing lets opponents stop him easily (Scizor, Heatran, Metagross, Shanderaa… with Ice/Grass, he has tons of counters). His sub-par defensive stats also let him down here (he's a yeti-tree fochrissakes. Why are his stats so underwhelming?). Protect can save you for a little bit so you can try to set up, anyway. If that Hail rumor from way back when turned out to be true where Ice Types' Defense is boosted and Ice attacks are also boosted, then Abomasnow could've made for a pretty good all-arounder. Bu there's no sense in talking about what could've been, though GF does elicit those thoughts because of its trolliness.

    Also, does anyone know why a radish and a pine tree would get Soundproof? It doesn't make any sense aesthetically, and it doesn't let him fill any niches nor does it allow him to do his job better. Maybe it can let him stay in to use Growth, but that's all I can think of. But then you wouldn't want to use the Growth set because your Blizzard would be inaccurate.
  5. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    Didn't remember that he learned Magic Coat. Thank you, I'll add now.

    Also, don't you think that Hail should get a boost in this generation? Sandstorm got Sand Power and Sand Scatter, while already having Sand Veil and the 50% Rock-types SpD boost. Rain boosts the accuracy of Thunder, weakens Fire while raises Water moves, and works good with Hydration, Swift Swim and Rain Dish. Sun is great for SolarBeam and, raising the power of Fire and weakening Water-Moves and for Growth, that now raises +2 both attacks while Sunny Day.It also pairs well with Clorophyl, Solar Power, Leaf Guard and the Cherrim exclusive Flower Gift.

    What does Hail have? Blizzard and Snow Cloak. Hoping for Gen VI bringing a new Hail effect.

    Well... maybe because trees are deaf :). Immunity to Roar is quite good, but Whirlwind is more common that Roar, and with the new Overhead Throw (SE) and Dragon Tail, turning Roar almost useless (still good in things like Swampert and Hippowdon). At least he's also immune to Chatter and Bug Buzz, which are SE on him. Harvest would be awesome on him.

    EDIT: It also blocks Perish Song, Hyper Voice and Heal Bell if analyzed by a competitive point of view. All the rest are bad moves like Snore and Supersonic.
  6. Charmed


    Mar 20, 2010
    Lol, I just have to say that I really loved your descriptions.
  7. ck49


    Oct 24, 2009
    gen 6 already?

    I was thinking about playing around with this guy as a revenge killer to doryzuu, as with a choice scarf it is probably one of the most reliable revenge killers to it, usually disrupting the rest of the team's strategy as well.
  8. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Well, a hail buff may be in store even for the third game or if GF does any remakes (R/S/E yupyup). After all, the Rock SpDef buff didn't come about until HgSs, I believe.

    And yes, Harvest would work well on him. What berries could be used though? An anti-elemental berry seems pointless because he still has 6 other weaknesses, so some form of sub-berry (i.e., Salac) strategy could work.
  9. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    It was early DP that SS SpD Rock boost started to happen.

    Also, Enigma Berry would do wonders if he had Harvest, as it does with Exeggutor (When hit by a SE attack, while holding Enigma Berry, it recovers 25% of the health). Cursed Game Freak. Why did GF give Soundproof to him, why?
  10. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Oh, I see. Yeah, a boost coming in near the end of a generation is silly anyway.

    Hmmm, I didn't think of Enigma Berry. With Snow's plethora of weaknesses, that would've been great on him (Exeggutor has a similar weakness problem). Troll Freak.

    Also, does anyone else think he should've gotten Icicle Drop? Mamo and Cloyster are the only two Pokémon to get it.
  11. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Jun 22, 2008
    I tried really hard to make a Hail team just to support Kyuremu, but I've failed each and every single time. Seeing a Forry lead is like the beginning of the end. Then if your opponent sends out a Ttar...*shudders*

    Aboma itself makes a decent lead, since the metagame has shifted toward slow and bulky SR leads, with a Deoxys here or there, but making a good hail team is hard as nuts with the other weather setters and their infinitely better Pokemon dominating the playing field.
  12. deluge


    Sep 19, 2009
    Well, I guess Soundproof = Bug Buzz immunity
    At least .... or is it at most ...
  13. PlatinumDude


    Sep 30, 2010
    Other than the post mentioned above, I don't really see a use of Soundproof on Abomasnow, especially considering the fact that no new Pokemon got Snow Warning.
  14. smashlloyd20


    Aug 7, 2010
    Abomasnow is still pretty bad (except on hail stall teams) but it makes a great check to other auto weather inducers. Here's a weather stopper set:

    @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP/132 SAtk/120 Atk/4 Spd
    Sassy Nature
    Snow Warning
    -Wood Hammer (Stops Politoed/Hippowdon/Tyranitar)
    -Earthquake (Stops Ninetails and Tyranitar)
    -Ice Beam (Stops Hippowdon/Altaria/Rayquaza.....maybe) (Used becaus it's used for killing the dragons that cancel weather, making Blizzad 70%)

    EDIT:Replaced Focus Blast with Ice Beam. Added a nature.
  15. PlatinumDude


    Sep 30, 2010
    I'd rather have Blizzard over Focus Blast on that set.
  16. NDenizen


    Aug 25, 2010
    Kyuremu really should have got Snow Warning - hell, Hail needed something better too.

    Oh well, it seems to me Hail is even less viable this gen than it was before. Which is such a shame.
  17. Don Honchkrorleone

    Don Honchkrorleone

    Aug 8, 2010
    With Sassy nature, I think. I'd take out Focus Blast to put Ice Punch or Ice Beam because there's one overlooked pokémon that may also fuck the weather by cancelling its effects: Altaria. Altaria got Cloud Nine (Blizzard back to 70%) and, while it lost Outrage, it still has Fire Blast and other things to abuse. The only hope for Focus Blast is the 4x hit in Lickylicky (Cloud Nine) T-tar, but the latter is already weak to both EQ and Wood Hammer, and with the 70% accuracy, you may die. Not taking into account the SS SpD boost. Focus Punch or Brick Break can replace FB. Good set, anyway.

    Maybe Pokémon Kyuremu version will remedy this. As Giratina got Levitate, Kyuremu may get Snow Warming. Or Pickup.
  18. Green Thunder

    Green Thunder

    Aug 6, 2010
    ^^ why would it get pickup,trollfreaks trolling HARD this Gen and I'm positive they'll make him worse. And why does mamoswine get thick fat and this guy doesn't (soundproof my ass)
  19. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    Does it really matter what his dream world ability was? Snow Warning was always going to be better anyway.
  20. The3DOstrich


    Aug 26, 2010
    Growth does give him a potential status as a mixed attacker, but 7 weaknesses, weakness to Mach Punch, Vaccum Wave, and the ever looming threat of CB Scizor's technician STAB bullet punch , finding a time to set up and lack of bulk (besides it's rather impressive, but still "doesn't cut it" base 90 Hp stat) really put a dent in Abomasnow's sweeping capabilities... 100% accurate Blizzard and the role of an effective hail lead are still pretty fun to use though, espicially if you have effective hail abusers on your team.
  21. Darkamber8828


    Dec 28, 2009
    Pure Power Abomasnow and Wonder Guard Abomasnow and Speed Boost Abomasnow and Shadow Tag Abomasnow would like a word with you.

    On the abilities that actually have flavor value, Harvest and Thick Fat are a fuckton more useful (and flavorful) than lolSoundproof.

    To make this post have relevance to the thread, Soundproof has use if you feel like using Abomasnow without wanting that pesky hail ripping chunks out of your health. Like, for countering water types.

    Or something.

    This is more viable if you're using a physical set, as they don't use Blizzard, because it isn't physical.
  22. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    Fine, I apologize, there are possible Abilities that could be better. Let me rephrase. Snow warning is almost always going to be better then any realistic DW abilities it might have gotten.

    Soundproof actually is quite good with him flavor-wise. Snow is often noted for dampening sound and just the general silence/stillness that comes with it. I rather like the flavor there actually.
    Of course other abilities can also be flavorful (though Think Fat doesn't seem good flavor to me as being a plant he shouldn't have fat...).

    Anyway, I like the idea of Magic Coat for Abom. Countering Taunt as well as a number of other icky moves could be quite nice.
  23. Sceats


    Dec 30, 2008
    'Cause he got 99 problems but bug buzz aint one!
  24. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

    Jun 14, 2009
    Just to be that guy- my guess is that TrollFreak is referencing the whole "If a tree falls in a forest, does it make a sound?" question- but this tree is soundproof. Get it?

    Got nothing new and his weaknesses will do him in, just like last time. Growth could be cool though :D
  25. leingodf8


    Oct 1, 2010
    scarf abomasnow makes a great check for doryuzuu, as long as it doesn't switch in on a rock slide or x scissor. He didn't get a whole lot knew this generation though. I guess he could run giga drain on a stally sort of set like the sub seeder, to get a bit more HP recovery, but aside from that most of his options are pretty much the same as last gen

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