New Bulky Offense [OU RMT]

Hello! And welcome to my latest RMT. So after the ban of Mence, I decided I needed a new team. The idea of this team was to form a bulky offensive fire/water/grass core which has begun to rise in popularity. Anyways without further ado, here is the team:

Team Building:

Ok so the fire/water/grass core was needed, I decided it also needed to be bulky enough to take some hits. So I went with heatran for my fire type, Suicune for my water type, and Shaymin for my grass type.


Since I got my core done, I needed a tank to setup SR and act as a physical wall, at first I tried gliscor, but it just didn't fit on my team, so I tried Metagross and the results were much better.


Next I needed a special wall and a ghost check, Blissey was way to whore like so instead I chose Snorlax.


Finally, I needed a lead that could double as a revenge killer and general annoyer, so I chose togekiss


Despotar, suggested a tentacruel and torment tran instead of suicune and rest talk tran, so after testing, it did much better than when I had suicune and rest talk tran, so they joined the team.


In Depth:
Changes in Blue

@ Choice Scarf
EV's: 4 Def 252 Spe 252 Sp.Atk
Ability: Serene Grace
Nature: Timid
Moves:

Air Slash
Aura Sphere
Thunder Wave
Trick

Why Togekiss? First off Togekiss is a rather underrated scarf lead, so most people usually expect the standard lead set, which gives me the edge at the beginning of the battle. The reason I chose Togekiss instead of Jirachi because Jirachi adds another -ground and -fire weakness to my team. Togekiss's purpose is to prevent rocks from going up on the field as well as taking out the opposing lead with the its two attacks. Aura Sphere provides a reliable way to rid myself of steel and rock types. Air Slash is obvious for STAB and flinch hacking. T-Wave is really useful for when I trick an opponent's wall and they switch in an agility sweeper or something and I get to cripple them as well, so as far as I'm concerned, t-wave + trick= dual crippling. Trick as mentioned is used to cripple walls and stat uppers. Togekiss also provides the only ground resist on the team.

The Ev's were taken from the choice scarf set and the moves were thought of by myself to maximize its usage and annoyance to my opponent. So if you are still questioning Togekiss's usefullness, then I will show you the lead comparisons.


Changes: Maybe

@ Leftovers
EV's: 252 Hp 252 Atk 4 Def
Ability: Clear Body
Nature: Adamant
Moves:

Stealth Rock
Meteor Mash
Earthquake
Thunder Punch

Why Metagross? Metagross is rarely seen outside of the sweeping position or lead position. Instead I use metagross as a physical wall thanks to its superb defense and good hp stats. Metagross helps set up the ever so important SR which helps my team greatly. Meteor Mash is a general STAB move and gives atk boosts from time to time, which is always appreciated. Earthquake provides a check to other steel types. Thunder punch is my surprise move which helps me tackle threats like DD Gyara and allow me to deal with Skarmory and other fliers. A lot of people are surprised when they see a metagross that isn't being used as an offensive powerhouse.

The ev's maximize hp and atk and the rest in def to take on physical attacks. This set gives as much bulk as possible. Metagross is also 1/2 of my wall pokes which consists on Metagross and Snorlax.

Changes: Possibly, if you can come up with a good reason.

@ Leftovers
Ev's: 252 Hp 220 Spe 56 Sp. Atk
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
Moves:

Substitute
Seed Flare
Leech Seed
Earth Power/Hidden Power Fire/Hidden Power Ice

Why Shaymin? Shaymin starts off my fire/water/grass core. The subseed set is PURE EVIL, it completely stalls out even the great blissey with a combination of leech seed and substitute. Seed flare provides a reliable STAB move and with 40% chance of lowering special defense, which is great considering the defenses of blissey. Earth power lets me deal with fire types as well as steel types who resist seed flare. I am considering hp fire for scizor steel types, and other shaymin's and celebi's. Hp ice gives me coverage against fliers and grass types, but lose against steel and fire types, I'm not sure about the last slot, choices on the last slot would be greatly appreciated. Sub helps ease prediction and blocks status. Leech seed is for sucking hp and regaining it back to prolong its evil reign.

Ev's are taken from the smogon set.

Changes: Most likely no

@ Leftovers
Ev's: 252 Hp 56 Def 200 Sp. Def
Ability: Liquid Ooze @ Leftovers
Ev's: 252 Hp 56 Def 200 Sp. Def
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Nature: Bold
Moves:

Surf
Toxic Spikes
Rest
Sleep Talk

Why Tentacruel? Rest talk toxic spiker tentacruel is here to replace suicune because toxic spikes allow shaymin and snorlax to cause even more trouble for my opponent. Surf is here for a reliable STAB move and water is a good offensive type, the only thing that is immune to water is vaporeon, so surf is very useful, especially against taunt mons. T-spikes is for an additional entry hazard alongside SR to hinder my opponent's pokes further. Rest+Sleep Talk lets Tentacruel double as my status absorber and when its asleep recovery hp, sleep talk lets me hope fully set up t-spikes or surf a random poke. Tenta also is the new water type in my fire/water/grass core. Its defensive with a more special defense spread because of its higher sp. def. Tenta has had more uses than suicune did although suicune was a lot more offensive.

The ev's were suggested by Desptar.

Changes: No

@ Leftovers
EV's: 244 Hp 220 Spe 32 Sp. Atk 12 Sp. Def
Ability: Flash Fire
Nature: Calm
Moves:

Torment
Substitute
Protect
Lava Plume

Why Heatran? Heatran completes the fire/water/grass core. Torment tran was once again suggested by Despotar, it ties in perfectly with tenta and shaymin. Torment tran helps stall out the likes of blissey. Torment is the crux of this set forcing pokes to switch moves. Sub lets heatran block SE attacks and status. Protect works in tandem with sub by predicting a SE attack while the opposing poke is tormented and blocks it forcing the poke to use a different move. Lava plume is here for STAB and because of its high PP works great at chipping away at the opponent's poke's hp as well as burning from time to time, which makes atacks even weaker and takes off a chunk of their hp. Tran has no form of recovery in this set, so a leech seed from shaymin makes him even more annoying, as well as the t-spikes tenta has laid down, this tran is a force to be reckoned with.

Ev's are from smogon.

Changes: No.

@ Leftovers
Ev's: 4 hp 252 Atk 252 Sp. Def
Ability: Thick Fat
Nature: Adamant
Moves:

Crunch
Earthquake
Body Slam
Self Destruct

Why Snorlax? Snorlax completes my wall pokes and acts as my special wall. Snorlax fits into my team perfectly because it has something blissey does not: Good attack and a way to destroy ghosts. Crunch is here for ghost types who think they can switch in on a body slam. EQ takes care of steel and rock types who want to come in body slam. Body slam is for STAB and the paralysis rate is always nice for some para hax. Self destruct is a last ditch solution bascially KOing everything. Snorlax, along with shaymin are probably my MVP because they always get a kill per game and helps keep threats in check.

Ev's are from smogon.

Changes: No



Final Glance:

Too Lazy to post a threat List, just gonna put pokes that give me trouble.


: The lead ones are no problem, but the sweeper ones are annoying. My best option is to come in with metagross and survive an attack and OHKO with EQ or come in with tenta after a kill and KO with surf.

In the same boat as Nape. The SD spore set is probably the worst, because it will sleep one of my mons and set up SD and sweep.

Hello there, first off nice team but I have a few suggestions for metagross. With the metagame packed with EQ's these days, moving some HP or ATK Ev's to Def would help meta survive the EQ, however defensive metagross is outclassed by both Skarmory and Fortress, I think Fortress would be the better option as toxic spikes hurts both Cune and Snorlax pretty bad. Also I think you should change Heatran to the sub or choiced version as Breloom has quite abit of fun with this team, assuming Togekiss is dead or has tricked it's scarf etc, I'd like to note I'm not that good at competative battle right now but those are the problems I see with this team :\ sorry I couldn't be more help

I'm not very good with rating but i'll do my best.

EDIT: @ Zinocide, i think he wants a SleepTalk Heatran for as an element of surprise, i think he wants his whole team to work as an element of surprise.

Anyway, i'll start: Against Ninjask leads, while you switch to Shaymin, put Sub up, 'spam' Leech Seed, Ninjask would have probably gotten a few swords Dances and a few Speed Boosts and just Baton Passes to a sweeper and 6-0 your team, so if i were you i'd Trick it, or spam Air Slash. Or as you said, switch to Shaymin. [But of course, if Ninjask baton passes all the stat boosts to a Pokémon weak to Grass or Ground then Shaymin would probably OHKO it as it is safe 'cause it has a Sub up. Though, there is a chance that Ninjask will get Sub and Swords Dance up and won't Baton pass and simply get Shaymin's Sub down with an X-Scissor and OHKO it with another.

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Is that Snorlax supposed to be an attacker ? if so, i'd give it Defence and attack [252 in both] EVs and an Impish nature, as it needs to survive as long as possible, and a moveset of Curse, Crunch, Ice Punch [only if you want to counter Dragons, or give him Earthquake if you don't] and Body Slam/Return.

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What Metagross needs is a Priority move, and of course he can only learn Bullet Punch, but i say that his moveset works perfect as a surprise element to Flyers as you said, so i wouldn't change it. But beware of Gyarados with Earthquake.

Okay. This seems more semi-stall the bulky offense but whatever.
I would change your Suicune to Tentacruel, as your team really gains from Toxic Spikes support. You'll find Shaymins Sub-Seeding doing much better, and Snorlax's stalling even more abusive.
Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Liquid Ooze
~ Toxic Spikes
~ Surf
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
Calm / 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Also, if you use Tentacruel, I would highly switching your Heatrans set to this:
Heatran @ Leftovers
~ Substitute
~ Torment
~ Protect
~ Lava Plume / Taunt
Calm / 244 HP / 32 SpA / 12 SpD / 220 Spe
(This required a strategy, so I'll steal it from the analysis)
This will completely abuse toxic spikes.
I think if you implement these changes your team will be much, much more effective.

@ Zinocide: Forry doesn't work much as a tank cuz to me it setups entry hazards, spins and dies.

@ Arikado: Alright I'll give the curse set a try

@ Despotar: Ok tentacruel looks good and the torment tran seems cool too.

Edit: Trying out tenta and heatran without new snorlax, then trying with new snorlax

I'll give all your suggestions a try.

Thanks for the rates.

Well Despotar covered pretty much everything but if you do go with his siggestions then I would recomend a Kingdra over Suicune to help abuse T-Spikes. It lso gives you a status absorber which you lose if you use Torment Tran.
Here is the set

Kingdra @ Leftovers
Impish
252 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
-Outrage
-Dragon Dance
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

EVs maximise bulk and the speed EVs allow you to outrun +1 positive natured base 100 speed pokemon after a Dragon Dance.

The set lets you set up on many water pokemon such as Starmie and Vaporeon and other stuff like Blissey, Celebi and Physical Jirachi. On these pokemon you can get a few DD's under your belt. I have actually tested this set myself and it works surprisingly well.

Have a Nice Day!

@ ginganinja: But if I have Tenta in suicune's place, where will kingdra go?

ah true, in that case just scratch Kingdra as Snorlax is your only other viable replacement for Kingdra and you stated that you wish to keep Snorlax.

Have a Nice Day!

modest restalk tran is rather pointless, since its really meant to take hits and not dish out huge damage (especially since you're running lava plume). Change it to calm with 252 hp/180 SpD/76 Spe you'll gain much more survivability against things like Jolteon this way. 76 Spe lets you outrun min speed rotom. another thing you might try is roar>earth power. you exchange coverage against other heatran (which this team doesn't have any trouble against) for the ability to phaze out things that might try to set up on heatran and rack up more SR damage.

I think you should change your Snorlax to a curselax set with rest which gives it more survivability and a better chance to sweep.

i don't think snorlax benefits this team to much with its current set. curselax would do a better job.

also, gross doesn't really fit this team. it may be bulky, but you're not running an offensive set. i think stallbreaker gliscor is better for you. follow this set:

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Toxic
Here is the description from Smogon:

NightShadow said:

i don't think snorlax benefits this team to much with its current set. curselax would do a better job.

also, gross doesn't really fit this team. it may be bulky, but you're not running an offensive set. i think stallbreaker gliscor is better for you. follow this set:

Gliscor @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 HP/4 Def/252 Spe
- Taunt
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Toxic
Here is the description from Smogon:

Hide

With a combination of his good Speed, great bulk, and access to Taunt and Roost, Gliscor can be a great tool in dismantling a stall team. After a Taunt, Blissey without Ice Beam cannot touch Gliscor, Hippowdon needs Ice Fang, and even Forretress' Gyro Ball won't be doing enough damage. Gliscor can then proceed to chip away at them with Earthquake while Roosting off damage to let the poison from Toxic take its toll. The given EVs and nature allow Gliscor to outspeed all Lucario, non-Choice Scarf Heracross, Jolly Gyarados without a boost, some variants of Jirachi, and force ties with opposing Gliscor.
Toxic is better against the likes of Rotom or Cresselia, as Gliscor cannot Earthquake them, although U-turn allows Gliscor to hit the likes of Celebi, Cresselia, or whatever they switch to (since Taunt is likely to force a few switches), giving you the momentum as you bring in a suitable answer. If you are more worried about bulk, an Impish nature can be employed. You can also shift 88 EVs into Attack from Defense and HP in order to secure the 2HKO on max HP Metagross. If other Gliscor are not a worry, you can drop to 216 Speed as this still lets Gliscor outpace Lucario.
Using something that can sweep with the removal of a wall is recommended. One of the best options to pair with Gliscor is Tyranitar, who will happily take the Ice-type moves aimed at Gliscor, thanks to Sandstorm's Special Defense boost, while Gliscor can switch in on Ground- and Fighting-type moves, as well as Grass Knot. If Gliscor Taunts a Cresselia or Rotom and then U-turn out to Tyranitar, he can easily pick them off with a strong Pursuit. Tyranitar also helps Gliscor abuse his incredibly annoying Sand Veil ability, making him harder to stop. Tentacruel also resists the Water- and Ice-type moves Gliscor attracts, while Gliscor is immune to Electric- and Ground-type moves. Tentacruel can also help set up Toxic Spikes, allowing Gliscor an easier time to take down the walls he will face. This set isn't as effective if your opponent then decides to go on the offensive, so having something that can back Gliscor up is appreciated.

Click to expand...

The thing is I have already tested gliscor before metagross and unlike before stallbreaker gliscor doesn't fit too well, so thats why I chose metagross, besides I like the surprise factor of metagross.

Anyways, after some testing tentacruel and torment tran are in and cune and rest talk tran are out, still in the process of curse lax.

Thanks to everyone for the rates.

The overall team is solid, but some tweaking could improve the sets.

You have alot of lefties users, and might have some trouble with stall/bulky teams. Life orb on heatran can 2HKO "counters" like gyarados and rash dragonite. (Fire blast) This would also help alot with offense.

On snorlax, pursuit is a superior option over crunch. Most special attackers like gengar and starmie will switch out, so pursuit will eliminate them for certain.

I would also try timid and at least 196 spe evs on suicune. This would allow you to outspeed adamant luke and check it well. Even without bold, you still check gyarados and lucario.

Eggbert said:

The overall team is solid, but some tweaking could improve the sets.

You have alot of lefties users, and might have some trouble with stall/bulky teams. Life orb on heatran can 2HKO "counters" like gyarados and rash dragonite. (Fire blast) This would also help alot with offense.

On snorlax, pursuit is a superior option over crunch. Most special attackers like gengar and starmie will switch out, so pursuit will eliminate them for certain.

I would also try timid and at least 196 spe evs on suicune. This would allow you to outspeed adamant luke and check it well. Even without bold, you still check gyarados and lucario.

Click to expand...

Well, since I have changed Cune to tenta then I will pass on the cune rate, but for tran, LO is a no no because with LO I will only have a limited time in play and I don't have a wish passer so it will get worn down, pursuit sounds good, but I'm worried about the power with a CB, I'll give it a try.

Anyways, thanks for the rate!

I don't really like your set for Tentacruel much. That Tentacruel set will quickly become setup bait for almost anything, and one of its moves becomes useless after being used twice. I would stick to the standard set.

As for Snorlax, you should definitely use either Pursuit or Selfdestruct on the set. That they are illegal together is the only reason I would not suggest both. Snorlax lacks recovery, and may as well go out with almost the most powerful move in the game (second only to Lickilicky's explosion IIRC). Pursuit, on the other hand, lets you actually trap those irritating ghost- and psychic types who will almost certainly switch out at the sight of Snorlax. Both of these moves would probably go over Ice Punch, but Pursuit perhaps could go over Crunch. Alternatively, you could use RestTalk Snorlax as your Status absorber over Tentacruel. Both Crunch and Whirlwind are viable in the last slot, and the spread would be 240hp 252def 16spdef careful. In this case the advantage over Blissey is a very very good physical defense stat.

On Togekiss, I would remove Thunderwave in favour of Fire Blast. Twave really doesn't fit with the toxic spiking strategy, apart from anything else. Also, Togekiss can often just kill the opposing lead and as such rarely needs to resort to trick anyway. Leads such as Skarmory, Forretress, and Metagross are hit hard by Fire Blast. Skarm actually quite enjoys trick as well as it grants it 3 layers of spikes, usually.

Given that most of your team lacks recovery, how about a Wish Support Jirachi over Metagross. Although this would have fitted even better with the previous thunderwave strategy, I think Wish support would be good for a team largely lacking in reliable recovery.

Edit - Snorlaxe is right - scarf Rotom is an excellent idea, although you must be very careful as not to have him trapped by a pursuit user.

Good luck.

Hi, I got your PM, so heres my rate. This looks like a pretty solid build, but something I notice is how your team is dependant on Toxic Spikes. Torment Heatran is easily double as effective with Toxic Spikes support as he is without Toxic Spikes support, and Leech Seed + Substitute Shaymin gets a huge boost from Toxic Spikes too, able to stall out Pokemon much more successfully with the hazards support. While its great that your team focuses on and abuses Toxic Spikes support so successfully, what worries me is that you dont have a gameplan against Rapid Spinners. What's to stop Forretress from coming in and spinning against someone like Snorlax? Your lack of a spinblocker takes a big toll on your team, as any smart player who carries a spinblocker will have no trouble getting rid of your Toxic Spikes, which in turn makes your team significantly less effective than you would like it to be. Another thing that I see when I look at your team is how you might have some problems with Swords Dance Lucario. Nothing is stopping him from setting up on someone like Tentacruel, and from there, nobody on your team can really halt his sweep. Shaymin is your best check at the moment, but hes a shaky check at best, as if his health falls low then ExtremeSpeed will dispatch him. While you would think that Togekiss could revenge him, after she comes in on Stealth Rock once and takes a little residual damage she will be in Lucarios KO range. While your Lucario weakness isnt massive, its still something I think is worth pointing out. Infernape also looks mildly problematic, as nobody on your team can switch in on him safely bar Tentacruel, who still takes a healthy chunk of damage from Close Combat.

The first thing I would do to increase your teams overall performance is to move Metagross to the leading position, and then replace Togekiss with a Choice Scarf Rotom-H. While I'm a huge fan of Scarf Togekiss, she definitely seems like the most expenable member on your team, and so thats why I think out of any of your Pokemon, she should be the one to be replaced. Metagross is still a fine lead, so you neednt worry there. Getting back on topic, Rotom-H is a great fit on your team, capable of not only blocking the opponents Rapid Spin attempts, but also being able to revenge-kill Swords Dance Lucario, and to an extent, Infernape. Use a set of Thunderbolt | Shadow Ball | Overheat | Trick, an EV spread of 252 HP | 40 SpA | 216 Spe, and a Timid nature with the item Choice Scarf. The EV spread that I listed allows you to outspeed +1 Jolly Dragon Dance Gyarados, and the HP EVs allow you to more easily switch in on Rapid Spinners like Starmie; if you would rather have more power, however, then you can swap the HP and SpA EV distributions. Now that Metagross is your lead, a few changes should be made to ensure that he can be the most effective lead possible. Firstly, change his item from Leftovers to Lum Berry, as this allows him to take on status-inducing leads, such as Roserade and Machamp, and come out on top, ultimately allowing you to set up Stealth Rock as early as possible in a match. After making that change, I suggest that you test Bullet Punch in place of ThunderPunch. ThunderPunch's usage is very minimal on a lead Metagross, and Bullet Punch is more effective for taking out leads who are weakened by Metagross' Meteor Mash. I think that you should consider using Explosion instead of Earthquake. The main reason you dont need Earthquake is because with Lum Berry as your item, you wont be beating Fire-types anyway, and so Earthquake isnt very neccessary. Explosion at least allows you to KO practically any switch-in, and can help out in tight situations. Finally, you will want to change Metagross' EV spread to allow him to more effectively lead. A spread of 248 HP | 232 Atk | 28 Spe is a good bet, as this allows Metagross to outspeed lead Empoleon, standard Spiker Skarmory (iirc), and Choice Band Tyranitar. As a very minor change, I think that it might be worth your while to test Selfdestruct over Ice Punch on Snorlax. An Adamant Snorlax's STAB Selfdestruct is one of the most powerful moves in the game, and allows you to OHKO practically anyone, so I think its a change that will help your team is you ever need to take out a last-ditch sweeper like CroCune.

Overall, great team, and just PM me if you have any questions B)

@ jc104: Hmmm, pursuit and self destruct looks ok, I'll try it out, and for the rest talk one I will give that a try as well. And I will try fire blast

@ Snorlaxe: Alright, I do a little switcheroo and see how it is.

Thanks for the rates guys!

Edit: After tests rotom-h did not do so well. Also Lead gross didn't last as long as when I had it as my wall.

I think I am inclined for my first:

*BUMP*

Edit: Threat List Updated (Sorta)