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Beneath the Waves (peaked #19)

Well, 4th gen is finally starting to get stale for me and after peaking at #3 for the 5th consecutive time -__- on the DPP OU ladder I decided to commit to finding myself a reliable team for the 5th generation. Right off the bat I knew I didn’t want to use stall, even though it has been my favourite playstyle in previous generations. Stuff hits too hard to execute a completely defensive strategy cleanly, not to mention having to deal with rubbish like Magic Bounce and relentless VoltTurn. What I did realise after a while playtesting is that, generally, the metagame isn’t too fast – it goes up into the 110-115 base speed range and beyond that there’s very little, and Choice Scarf isn’t anywhere near as common as it was last gen. The second main thing I thought about was that the only common physically defensive Water resists in the meta are either Steel or Psychic typed (Ferrothorn, Slowbro, Celebi etc).

I decided to base my team around Sharpedo for its speed and Dark type STAB, to which I added Magnezone and Politoed to set up against and remove his main counters, and to power up his Waterfall respectively. I’d wanted to use Scarf Moxie Mence ever since it was released and it seemed like a great complementary sweeper for Sharpedo; CB Dragonite was added as an early game wallbreaker and to check other offensive teams with Multiscale and Extremespeed. Finally Ferrothorn joined the team as a sort of catch all defensive pokemon for the early game as well as for crucial hazard support. Thus the team was complete.
The team does have a couple of problems, namely, Fighting types and some defensive threats I’ll talk about at the end; which is why I’m bringing it here for suggestions :) Overall though, it has been one of my favourite teams ever, peaking at #19 on PO’s ladder, and generally being a lot of fun to play with. I’m happy to present:

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Under the Surface

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Politoed @ Expert Belt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Focus Blast
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song

If anyone asks me what my favourite Politoed set is, it has to be this one. It works on the bluff that Toed is set up fodder for something. Ferrothorn comes in to set up some irritating Stealth Rocks? No problem; I use Focus Blast and weaken it enough that it can’t cause problems for Salamence or Sharpedo later in the game. Politoed naturally lures a lot of the things that can beat Sharpedo which helps out a lot – especially since these pokemon, such as Rotom-W or Ferrothorn, are often crucial to the opponent in other ways. Perish Song is brilliant for making sure nothing can ever really set up for a damaging sweep against me; especially in the early game when I often sacrifice Politoed once I’ve ensured favourable weather, to avoid risking my other more important offensive pokemon. I usually lead against Baton Pass teams with this guy, Perish Song first turn, then I can either dish out a powerful hit or make an appropriate switch because Baton Pass doesn’t often carry more than one pokemon which can switch into an offensive Toed. The EV’s are fairly simple; 28 Speed will put me ahead of pretty much every Skarmory, special attack is maxed, and the rest goes into Toed’s HP. Speaking of which, Politoed’s bulk is fairly impressive even without a fully defensive set, which means I can usually stay in against Rotom-W as it Volt Switches for ~60% to make sure I don’t concede the momentum. The same goes for taking on Landorus, unboosted Terrakion and so on.

Of course the main thing Politoed brings to my team is Drizzle, although I don’t depend on it at all – all of my pokemon can function perfectly well in any weather (although residual damage from sandstorm is occasionally significant). Ferrothorn probably gets the most use out of the rain because it significantly lowers the number of things which can force it out. However, Drizzle helps by preventing my opponent’s beneficial weather from having an effect. For instance, Venusaur in Sun would be a massive pain because it would be essentially an insta-stop to Mence. Overall Politoed is a solid team player who contributes every match.

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Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Evs: 252 HP / 152 Def / 104 SDef
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Thunder Wave
- Power Whip

Ferrothorn really holds the team together with his great typing and defenses. He is my main early game pokemon, the one who gets sent out to take a beating so that nobody else has to. Like a lot of people I guess I play Ferrothorn fairly recklessly, letting it take burns and so on because once I can open up a small weakness in my opponent’s defensive structure my offensive core is self-supporting; I can just blast away until something dies, make the appropriate switch, and blast away again, with no need for any defensive support since revenge killing my two main sweepers without using priority moves is virtually impossible.

Stealth Rock and Spikes are very important, since Sharpedo tends to do around the 70% mark to most bulky pokemon he can’t hit supereffectively (or very bulky things that he can). With Spikes support my two Dragons can often 2HKO their steel type switch-ins as well. Power Whip is necessary so I’m not set up on by Gyarados, Sub Terrakion, Espeon etc etc. Not being able to hurt Dragonite is a pain but I can still usually paralyse them unless they’re the SubRoost variant; if this is the case I’m in trouble but I can usually just sacrifice something or other and then finish it off with Mence. I can’t remember what the EV’s are meant to do, I think I aimed for a certain amount of physical bulk to take on Ice Shard users like Mamoswine or Cloyster which otherwise can hurt me quite badly, and then the rest in SpDef so I can last long enough against the ubiquitous Water and Electric type attackers.

Speaking of Water and Electric pokemon…I usually lead with Ferrothorn when I’m facing a VoltTurn team, because all but the best players see a Politoed and automatically lead with Rotom-W. VoltTurn has never really given me trouble because of the nature of my team; I can sacrifice pretty easily because of the way Sharpedo and Salamence can pull off sweeps at almost any time, so the opponent can’t ever get that infuriating cycle going properly.

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Salamence @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Naive Nature, Moxie
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Brick Break

Salamence has a fearsome picture because it’s a fearsome pokemon, it’s as simple as that. In my opinion this is hands down the best mid to lategame sweeper in existence, it needs to get way more usage than its getting at the moment. Once I clear out Scizor and very bulky Steel types (which isn’t exactly hard to do with Spikes, Stealth Rock, CB Dragonite, Magnezone, and the fact that +1 Outrage still does 40% or so to most of them), Mence can come in against nearly anything slower than him and just rip holes. The Scarf makes this even easier; not many people have caught on to this set yet, especially on PO, so Jolteon and Starmie etc will usually stay in and net me a free attack boost. Outrage is really the only move you need on this set; I almost never use the other attacks because they guarantee I’ll lose the momentum and once I bring Mence or Sharpedo in the idea is to never let the momentum go. Anyhow; Draco Meteor is if I’m forced to bring Salamence in earlier on to revenge kill something and I don’t want to get locked into Outrage. Good at faking other sets, and taking down bitches like Tangrowth who otherwise wall most of the team. Brick Break is for breaking Dual Screens, OHKO’ing Tyranitar and taking care of Balloon Heatran and similar. Earthquake similarly is just an anti-Steel coverage move. The EV’s shouldn’t need explaining, but I will anyway :) because I’m a helpful kinda guy. 252 Speed and Naïve ties with other base 100 +1’s, which mightn’t sound that important but I’ve been seeing an increase in Scarf Celebi and Jirachi recently. Attack is maxed, and I chose to lower special defense because, with the rain, I can still easily switch into Fire attacks, and it’s nice to be able to laugh at Toxicroak trying to Sucker Punch me etc etc.

That’s about all there is to say about Salamence. He really is a brilliant pokemon and often my MVP, try this set out and you won’t be disappointed.

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Magnezone @ Air Balloon
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SAtk / 223 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Substitute
- Hidden Power (Fire)
- Flash Cannon

Magnezone is insanely good in this metagame, especially since BKC took the number 1 spot with his good but incredibly Magnezone weak Art of Ruin team. Clones are running around everywhere, which is great for me, because Magnezone singlehandedly defeats them. He also does a near perfect job at eliminating Steels (oh yeah except Jirachi…I hate Jirachi). Moveset is simple but sweet; Substitute stops Ferrothorn paralyzing me and allows me to wreak some destruction on unprepared teams by setting up while the opponent’s bulky water type runs away like a little girl. I’m not sure to be honest about Thunderbolt vs Thunder. Thunder would be a serious help against SpDef Jirachi, Heatran and Dragonite but missing that crucial hit when rain isn’t up is a real killer. HP Fire looks odd but it’s the fastest way of killing Ferrothorn even in rain (also I often trap Ferrothorn before bringing in Politoed). Flash Cannon beats Tyranitar and is generally a good neutral coverage move.
The EV’s are standard to put me a little way above Adamant max speed Scizor and the other things which like to sit just above Scizor, SpAtk is maxed and the rest go in HP.

Magnezone’s has a couple of roles in the team. The first is obviously to kill Steel types. This isn’t usually difficult, usually because I can just throw in CB Dragonite early on and threaten to wipe out their entire team unless they send in Scizor / Skarmory / Ferrothorn. Defensive rain teams with Ferrothorn often lead with him because they see my team is somewhat SR weak, but they also see that if they let me get going they likely won’t have a chance to set it up later. They expect me to lead with Politoed or a Dragon, so I will lead with Zone most of the time. If I can catch Ferrothorn like this it’s basically game over.
After this happens, or if the opponents Steels are flimsy enough that I don’t need to waste the time trying to trap them, the next step is to try to inject Magnezone into the game as much as possible. This is because it isn’t a great lategame pokemon, but it excels at forcing the opponent into obvious plays when their team is starting to show some wear and tear. Even if they have Blissey, for instance, I can abuse that by getting up a Sub on the switch then going straight to Dragonite when there’s little risk of them throwing a status move.
Finally, Magnezone tends to be death fodder if my sweep gets temporarily halted. “Someone has to do it” etc etc.

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Dragonite @ Choice Band
EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
Adamant nature
- Outrage
- Waterfall
- Extremespeed
- Earthquake

Dragonite is very rarely my MVP but he still puts in a lot of good work. I originally wanted a DDSubRoost set here to set up on Tangrowth etc but I lacked a stallbreaker, plus some types of fast offensive team were giving me trouble. Having that insanely powerful Outrage and Waterfall fixes one problem, Extremespeed fixes the other. He’s really not a complicated pokemon to use; against defensive teams, bring him in safely using his typing and Multiscale, then unleash Outrage (unless I see a Skarmory or Metagross or something, in which case his coverage attacks or the Magnezone switch work fine). Waterfall hits like an absolute truck under Rain as well, easily making up for the loss of his Fire type coverage moves. Against offensive teams I can often lead with him, hopefully severely damage one or two pokemon, then switch out with a bit of HP remaining to clean up later with Extremespeed. Being able to do this, spam Outrage with Multiscale up, is the main reason I’m not using Haxorus here even with his ridiculous attack stat and lack of weaknesses. Lacking Extremespeed would make me ridiculously weak to some speed-boosting sweepers as well so I think Dragonite is on the team for good.

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Sharpedo @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Protect
- Earthquake

Here he is. This is the face that sunk a thousand ships. I’ve got no idea how Sharpedo is an RU, because even without permanent Rain he’s crazy good. He’s perfectly suited to OU though, with Celebi in particular so common on modern teams to check VoltTurn. The idea is very simple; try to come in against something you outspeed and can kill in one turn. Alternatively you can come in against something faster and Protect but that can cost you, potentially giving the opponent a free stat boost / Substitute / switch. Anyway, after two turns nothing outspeeds you, leaving you free to bash away with Sharpedo’s 120 base attack stat.

Sharpedo excels at cleaning up fragile offensive teams; bulkier teams give him more trouble since he has no effective way of boosting his attack further but the all the common things which counter him fairly easily are forcibly removed by the rest of the team. Pokemon like Jirachi take about 70% from a rain boosted Waterfall so with some Spikes and other residual damage they can’t stand in his way. Crunch provides that strong secondary dark STAB which is so effective in OU. Finally, I’ve tossed up between Earthquake and Ice Fang in the final slot and settled on Earthquake. It means I only do about 50% to bulkier Dragonite with Crunch, but most Dragonite aren’t a problem for this team and with SR Sharpedo can often still blow past it. Earthquake is necessary mainly for Toxicroak who is one of the bigger threats to my team; it’s also good for grounded steel types if for some reason Rain isn’t active.

And yeah I’m being lazy with the EV spread. There’s probably something more optimal but this lets me speed tie with other max speed Sharpedo. I tried out the 156 Speed (?) spread that my old tutor Agamemmnon used on his RMT but the little extra bulk wasn’t worth it.

Threats

So, that’s all the main stuff out of the way – thanks for taking the time to read through it :) In my opinion comprehensive threat lists are mostly pointless for the amount of time they take so I’m not going to give you one =P Instead, here are the pokemon which have or should give the team serious problems.

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Yup, there’s nothing on my team which can take attacks from Terrakion, except Politoed if he’s at full health and Terra is unboosted. The only set which is really dangerous is the Rock Polish variant, because the Choiced versions will probably get a kill but will also give me a free sweeping attempt; Substitute Terrakion is really annoying if I try and paralyse it with Ferro but I can sacrifice Sharpedo and then scare it out with Salamence. Rock Polish theoretically could kick the daylights out of me but I haven’t had too much trouble, it can’t really set up on anything. If I have to I guess I could force it to Close Combat then revenge kill with Dragonite’s Extremespeed.

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Yeah this thing sucks. Luckily no-one uses it because if they did I’d be screwed. Draco Meteor from Mence can possibly surprise it on a Will-o-wisp, otherwise I just need to try to work around it with Magnezone and Toed.
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Pretty much the same as Terrakion. Salamence outspeeds it but can’t take a +2 Extremespeed after SR damage. Like Terrakion I can lure some defense drops from CC then Extremespeed so long as he’s only at +2.

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Oh god annoying. The Hydration tank almost flat out beats me, only takes like 70% from CB Nite’s Outrage and can just stall for confusion. Ferro beats it of course but that’s why opponents who use this always use Magnezone, Virizion and so on. Can be beaten if I get a lot of Spikes layers down though.

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Another really underrated pokemon. Completely walls my three main sweepers. Luckily if they use this they often lack good counters for Politoed and Magnezone, which can set up a Substitute against it. Tangrowth + Blissey would be gg though.

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Mainly the Thunder + Water Pulse set. I can always sacrifice to break its Sub and then take it out. SpDef can occasionally be difficult too since it usually beats Magnezone from full health, but since on most teams it has to take my Dragon attacks eventually it will be beaten down.

Right-o, that’s it! Once again, thanks for reading and, hopefully, taking the time to give me some suggestions. I hope you enjoyed this RMT :)
 
Hi there bubbly, great team!

You obviously have a great game plan laid out so I'm going to make nitpicks for now, obviously make Ferrothorn Impish and Salamence Naive. Next, I would change Magnezone to a SubCharge set with the same EVs, Leftovers, and the moves Charge Beam / Thunder / HP Ice / Sub- this allows you to beat Jirachi with it and pose more of a threat overall, you might even be able to take out a Blissey with it! You can consider bulk investment if you find it paralyzing you or you want to be able to take an initial Scald from something like Jellicent better.

A small change you could consider is Refresh over Perish Song on Politoed and Leftovers, this let's you take on Sableye fairly well and you probably won't miss 2HKOing natt too much considering Magnezone now essentially gives you a free win against any team that runs it. You do fairly well against Smashpass even without it and BP with Mime is still going to be annoying. Also, if you want to take Jolly CB Terrakion CC at full health you'll need 108 defense EVs, this would also let you stay in on Luke.

Lastly, if you're desperate to check Luke and want a Fighting immunity, you could try Scarf Jellicent over Scarf Mence with Water Spout / Surf / Shadow Ball / Hidden Power Grass, this also lets you temporarily spinblock so you can try just that little bit harder to blast through stall teams and maybe even beat that Tangrowth + Blissey in the long run. Run a Timid Nature and max speed to outrun Terrakion / Genies.

Good luck!
 
Hi there, this is a really cool team, i've seen people talking of sharpedo in OU, i never tried it out myself but people keep telling me its good and i should try it out.

Seeing as you're weak to jirachi (who seems a big threat since it can set up on ferro, mence and d-nite) is to switch power whip to bulldoze on ferrothorn. You need to invest a little attack into it to insure it breaks a sub every time, but it allows you to stay in on jirachi and allows Salamence and Dragonite to lock themselves into Dragon moves a little easier and you won't have to rely on prediction as much. This also turns jirachi into set up fodder for ferrothorn (who is normally set up fodder for Sub CM jirachi)

Another thing you could consider which im not sure how well it would work, since it sort of makes using magnezone irrelevent is to slap a scarf on him. Choicing Magnezone would give you a decent out to SD lucario and terrakion, it also lets you outspeed jirachi and try and hit it hard before it sets up.

A couple other things you might like too are using fire punch on dragonite, since on a Rain team no one is going to think you're packing it and you can get off a pretty sizable hit on it. You could also not use multi scale on dragonite and give it superpower to really smash those ferrothorns. Another move you could also consider would be Aqua jet for terakion and lucario, even though its not strong its still an option.

As to dealing with vaporeon, tangrowth and sableye i can't really suggest anything besides packing a random toxic on one of your pokes.

Hope i helped even though i did just talk a lot of crap but good luck with the team.
 
Pure physical sharpedo sucks.

Use the mixed one. at least ten times better.

No, it isn't. Hydro Pump is roughly 20% more powerful than Waterfall, but it also has imperfect accuracy and also means you have to weaken your coverage moves. Also, the main reason to use Hydro Pump is to beat Skarmory; this team already accomplishes that. Going mixed means that more stuff can stop you, basically, so its possibly better on a standalone sweeping Sharpedo but not on this team.

@ yee - Thanks for the suggestions :) I just made some mistakes typing up the natures for the RMT, thanks for pointing them out. I'll definitely run with the Magnezone set you posted, looks great, and will test a more defensive Refresh Toed although I think I might miss the extra damage on Ferro. Scarf Jellicent sounds cool too, it can't sweep against all of the same targets Salamence can but like you say it spinblocks and checks Fighters.
 
Hi bubbly,

I can't help but feel that your team would be alot more fearsome with Rapid Spin support. Salamence / Dragonite don't have to deal with their crippling SR weakness, which is huge since they're both choiced, and it helps the latter abuse Multiscale. It also makes the ultra-frail Sharpedo less vulnerable to priority, and makes it easier for Politoed to win weather wars. Since you have a slight weakness to Terrakion, and to fit in with the offensive theme of your team, I'm going to recommend a Life Orb Starmie over one of your Dragons - the choice of which one to drop is arbitrary, since they're extremely similar. Starmie is an offensive terror with Drizzle active, has an extremely reliable Rapid Spin since it can 2HKO every spin-blocker at minimum, checks Terrakion, and naturally fits in well on this team - Magnezone removes its biggest counter, Ferrothorn, which lets Starmie rip through teams that rely on Ferro to stop it. A moveset of Hydro Pump | Rapid Spin | Thunder | Recover with a Timid nature and max SpAtk / Speed should work fine.

I hate this team because it's so anti-Ruin, but it's well-made! Congrats on the leaderboard peak, gl, hope this helped :)
 
Great synergy you've got among your offensive pokemon. Very well made!
Now, as BKC said you would really need a rapid spinner to increase your dragons's and sharpedo's longevity.
A nice option would be LO starmie or an Offensive Tentacruel. I think you should replace Dragonite. You don't need Draonite,imo, because your Salamcence's role is more important than your draonite's. The offensive pressure you would lose from Dragonite would easily be taken by your Sharpedo.

Congrats on this great team... I love the Magnezone in this team :D
 
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