Stealth Rock Atrocities: Moltres Discussion

ADH

Moltres.png

#146 Moltres
Base Stats: 90 HP / 100 Atk / 90 Def / 125 SAtk / 85 SDef / 90 Spd
Ability: Pressure

Notable Physical Movepool
Aerial Ace
Pluck
U-Turn

Notable Special Movepool
Flamethrower
Fire Blast
Heat Wave
Overheat
Air Slash
Ancientpower
Solarbeam
Extrasensory (XD Purification)

Notable Support Movepool
Roost
Will-o-Wisp
Morning Sun (XD Purification)

Moltres, of course, is murdered by Stealth Rock. No sense in beating around the bush there. It does have a nice 4x resistance to bug and grass along with a myriad of other good resists, making it a good counter to things like Tangrowth (sans Ancientpower).

Moltres @ Choice Specs
Nature: Modest (+SAtk -Atk)
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
-Flamethrower
-Air Slash
-Extrasensory
-HP Grass

Does serious damage to most things in the game. Perhaps Choice Specs aren't the best choice of item for it, but they could work pretty well.
 
I did an Agility set for it, I like very much because it has impressive SAtk and can take down most AS users easily.

Moltres @ Life Orb/Leftovers (I prefer Life Orb here)
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 6 HP (or maybe slightly less speed and more HP)
Nature: Modest (SAtk+/Atk-)
- Flamethrower/Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Extrasensory
- Agility

Agility up and now you kill like all AS users. It counters Infernape and can Agility on the switch out of Infernape. With 125 base SAtk it deals a lot of damage and can sweep.
 
Moltres has always been my favorite out of the legendary birds, so its disapointing that it has such a weakness to Stealth Rock. A very reliable Rapid Spinner is a must with Moltres, like Donphan or Claydol, who resist it. But once Stealth Rock is taken care of, I think it can really do a lot of damage. The plus side to Moltres in D/P is that it got a very significant boost in its movepool. I'm loving Air Slash on this guy now that its a Special move.
 
Physical Infernape is likely to carry Stone Edge or Thunderpunch, so Moltres is not a counter. It walls most special Infernape sets though.

You will NEED a spinner if you're using Moltres. Thankfully, he works reasonably well with Donphan and Starmie. They do share some common weaknesses though, so it's still a bit shaky.

Air Slash is cool, despite it's type coverage overlapping with his Fire STAB somewhat. It 2HKOs Swampert and Salamence (amongst others) on the Choice Specs set. I can't think of anything that Extrasensory covers better than Flamethrower and Air Slash, so I'd drop it and go with Overheat.
 
If you're going to use CG then Flamethrower is a waste, because it's like using an unboosted Fire Blast in a sense. Fire Blast+CG will hit stuff so hard you won't care if it misses every now and again.
 
He doesn't even need Grass that much now. It's a 2HKO on Max HP/0 SDef Milotic, as is Air Slash. Taking down Swampert in one hit is obviously a good thing though. Ground might be a better option to take down Heatran, who otherwise walls Moltres easily.

Choice Specs Moltres on WiFi is very viable - even with a decent Hidden Power. Air Slash/Flamethrower/Overheat/Somersault isn't bad at all.
 
I like the numbers on Life Orb Moltres. Given that Stealth Rock must be out of the picture for Moltres to work at all, I'm not too concerned with residual damage.

Sunny Day/Fire Blast/Air Slash/Solarbeam is probably what I'd run. Give it enough speed to beat Adamant Cross, max special attack with modest, massive damage ensues - a SD Life Orb Fire Blast may not 2hko Blissey but it's worth a shot in a pinch.
 
Don't fire moves hit pretty much the same things for SE as the flying move? Bug/Grass get covered, so the lack of Air Slash would mean Moltres would only deal less damage to Fighting types. Grass/Fire seem to cover enough and with Solar Beam, it would leave the HP slot open for an HP Ice/Electric if required.

Fire Blast
Solar Beam
Sunny Day
HP Ice/Electric

imo
 
Air Slash can help a little against Infernape, who resists Flamethrower and kills it with Stone Edge (not that the Flamethrower isn't going to do a ton of damage). Other than that...yeah...*shrug*
 
Air Slash hits a lot of his counters for neutral damage. HP Electric doesn't do much to Salamence, while HP Ice doesn't do much to Gyarados. Air Slash hits them both reasonably hard.
 
His fire moves have much more base power than his flying moves. Of course, he'll use all special attacks so that's not an issue (I wonder how long until people stop thinking of types as physical or special). There's also the non-water non-TF ice type crew.
 
Moltres @ Powerful Herb
Flamethrower
Solarbeam
Air Slash
U-Turn

I've seen some people use that set over wifi. It doesn't have to use a turn changing the weather, but the powerful herb only works once.
 
Moltres @ Leftovers
~ Flamethrower
~ Hidden Power Grass
~ Feather Rest
~ Safeguard

HP Grass is a filler, the last two moves are the point of me posting this. With Feather Rest and Safeguard you beat about every Blissey without Calm Mind. I think Protect could work as well in that slot (and it helps you for scouting Rock-moves). Blissey isn't going to carry Thunder Wave often anymore, so as long as there is no Sand Stream, you can recover 1/8 of your HP between two Seismic Tosses. That's 48 HP. Then again with Feather Rest it's not likely you need it.

This is just me trying something different again and trying to save Moltres from Stealth Rock or something.

EDIT: Sleep Talk/Roar could work as well of course for Spikes/Stealth Rock abuse.
 
e4protector said:
Moltres @ Life Orb/Leftovers (I prefer Life Orb here)
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 6 HP (or maybe slightly less speed and more HP)
Nature: Modest (SAtk+/Atk-)
- Flamethrower/Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Extrasensory
- Agility
Click to expand...
Eh, I'm not liking Extrasensory, Flamethrower does enough already imo. Ttar switches in for free on this set. Which in conjunction with Garchomp Ttar will be like on every freaking team.

HP Ice/Grass/Fight or Roost over Extrasensory? Also 270 or 274 Spd on modest sets because It needs some HP.

I haven't done calcs, but HP fight with Life orb on Moltres should put low/none Sp Def Ttar in or near the KO range, right?
 
Timid Moltres with Maximum Special Attack and Life Orb OHKOs CBTyranitar (min-Def, nearmin-HP) all of the time.
Modest should do it with no problem.
 
I'm fond of:

Moltres (Modest, max SA\Speed) @Life Orb
- Fire Blast
- Solarbeam
- Sunny Day
- HP Ice

Step #1: Use Sunny Day.
Step #2: Destroy things. HP Ice is for OHKOing the Dragons that try to wall you, Fire Blast in sun OHKOs all Cresselia, and 2HKOs all Snorlax. It's a 3HKO on no HP\SD Blissey (2HKO with Spikes\Stealth Rock support).

The only problem comes from its speed, which needs a boost or paralysis support. You should also weaken Milotic\Suicunes before bringing it in so you can finish them off with Solarbeam.
 
Also needs Tyranitar out of the way, as its Sandstream will mess you up.
And Bulky Fire types (lol wut) will also "wall" that.
 
Phuquoph said:
Air Slash hits a lot of his counters for neutral damage. HP Electric doesn't do much to Salamence, while HP Ice doesn't do much to Gyarados. Air Slash hits them both reasonably hard.
Click to expand...

Actually fire blast does nearly as much to gyarados/salamence as air slash (about 6-8% difference, they will both most likely be 3hkos on mence) and with a sunny day it will be more powerful. I would never run air slash unless I had a huge infernape problem.
 
Nah, I've found with Sunnybeamers that Sandstream really isn't a problem if you've got prediction skills with Sunny Day.

But if you don't, by all means carry a Dugtrio around.
 
When using Sunny Day you should consider using that weather orb thing that makes it last longer. Nothing worse than Milotic eating like 67% of your attacks but refusing to stop Recovering until Sunny Day runs out.
 
Nah, with Hot Rock you can't have the Life Orb boost, which is essential to killing off Milotic with Solarbeam. Against max HP\max SD Milotic (which you shouldn't ever see because it'll likely have maxed out Defense instead), Solarbeam does 63-76% damage.

Against max HP no SD Milotic, it's 76%-90%.
 
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