Throh (Analysis)

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/538.shtml

Status: Done!

QC Checks: Delta 7777, Iconic, Bloo
GP Checks: Calm Pokemaster, Erebyssial

Venser's old thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102008

_______________________

[Overview]

<p>At first glance, Throh seems to be outclassed by other Fighting-types, with no hope of showing up amongst powerful Pokemon such as Conkeldurr. This is only partially the truth. While it is true that Throh is less popular and can do fewer things more effectively than other Fighting-types, he does have a couple of tricks up his sleeve. Throh is the bulkiest Fighting-type that exists in the game, with base 120 HP and 85 defenses, meaning he can tank hits more effectively than similar Fighting-types. Throh also has a great phazing move in Circle Throw, which does modest damage while forcing the opponent out. This means Throh can phaze even when under the effects of Taunt, and being the bulkiest Fighting-type to do so gives Throh a useful niche in the OU metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Circle Throw / Storm Throw
move 3: Payback / Stone Edge
move 4: Rest / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Guts
nature: Careful
evs: 208 HP / 48 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Throh fulfills his niche by using a combination of Bulk Up and Circle Throw, allowing him to beat other Bulk Up users such as Scrafty and Conkeldurr. Bulk Up is the main move of this set, making Throh extremely hard to take out after just one boost. The main choice for a STAB move is Circle Throw, which allows Throh to force out other Pokemon that try to force him out themselves. Storm Throw is a useful alternative, as it always gets a critical hit. That means it always breaks through the defense boosts of other Bulk Up users.</p>

<p>The other two slots have three options to consider. Payback is the best choice for a coverage move, allowing Throh to hit Gengar and Jellicent who are immune to Circle Throw. Rest is the favorable fourth move on this set, since Throh needs a way to heal off damage and can actually survive the sleep turns in many situations. Stone Edge is the alternate choice in either slot, as it does hit Flying-types such as Gyarados and Salamence super effectively. The other two moves have more utility, however, meaning Stone Edge is less attractive of an option.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Throh has a few other options to consider for a moveslot, though they usually fall behind the listed set. Earthquake can hit the rare Poison-types, but it has far less utility than Payback or Stone Edge would. Revenge is an alternate STAB move, but is unreliable since Throh has to be hit by a move beforehand to make it worthwhile.</p>

<p>As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can set up Toxic Spikes are a huge help for Throh, as they can weaken switch-ins who would want to force Throh out. Forretress and Tentacruel are reliable users of Toxic Spikes to consider. Magnezone is another useful teammate, as it can handle the faster Skarmory, who can reliably phaze Throh out with Whirlwind.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Throh's niche is the only reason why he should be used, meaning he has very few other viable options. The only real choice to consider is Toxic, letting Throh cripple other Pokemon himself. However, pairing Throh with a Toxic Spikes user is far more effective in order to save a moveslot.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Skarmory is the best counter to Throh, as it can take boosted Fighting-type moves and use Whirlwind before Throh uses Circle Throw. Swampert and Suicune, although relatively uncommon, do a similar job with Roar. In addition, any Pokemon with a super effective STAB move can give Throh problems. Dragonite and Tornadus need to avoid Stone Edge, but Hurricane deals massive damage to Throh. Reuniclus is slower than Throh, meaning it avoids taking double damage from Payback, and Psychic deals major damage. Togekiss and Yanmega also worry about Stone Edge, but can carry a powerful, super effective Air Slash. Lastly, Trick users cripple Throh since he needs to be able to switch moves to be useful. A Throh locked into move can be easily used as setup bait by the appropriate Pokemon.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Throh gets Mold Breaker from the Dream World, which is an interesting ability choice. It would allow Throh to hit Gengar, Bronzong, and Rotom-A with Earthquake, which is extremely helpful. It is usually superior to Guts on any Throh using Rest, as those don't fear status at all. In the case that Throh chooses not to carry Rest, Guts is the superior choice to take advantage of any status he takes.</p>

I have to disagree somewhat on the DW section comments. Mold Breaker works a lot better with Rest considering that burns and the such will be removed upon resting and it needs the ability to remove them because otherwise it is completely crippled unlike the Guts set.

Guts on the other hand doesn't care as much about status due to the attack increase meaning it is a much higher threat due to the attack raise.

PS: It may have just been your wording but overall it came out confusing sounding in some areas.

Maybe I should rephrase that section because I was trying to say that Mold Breaker works better with Rest like I think you're saying.

Edit: okay I hope that makes more sense.

I think Yanmega needs to be put into Checks and Counters.

Edit- And Taunt a slash after Rest / Stone Edge on the Bulk Up set

PandorasBox said:

I think Yanmega needs to be put into Checks and Counters.

Click to expand...

Good point, I'll mention to avoid a possible Stone Edge though.

And about Taunt, I'm going to wait for QC input because that first set was from SDS's post on the old thread. Other Options maybe though? I'll wait for that for now.

I decided to add a note about Togekiss in Checks and Counters after thinking about it last night. Otherwise I think this is all right, hopefully this is good for QC. Can't think of much else other than the possible AC Taunt mention.

It's been a week since any comments on this, is there anything Quality Control wants added? I'd like to be able to write this up soon.

I don't think it's worth mentioning brick break over storm throw. Storm throw has higher (effective) base power, and like you said can win bulk up wars and hit opponents with boosted defenses. Relying on criticals from brick break and breaking screens aren't nearly enough to make up for the advantages of storm throw.

Also, I think you would have to do some heavy convincing that resttalking is viable with throw, much less rest without sleep talk

Abacus said:

I don't think it's worth mentioning brick break over storm throw. Storm throw has higher (effective) base power, and like you said can win bulk up wars and hit opponents with boosted defenses. Relying on criticals from brick break and breaking screens aren't nearly enough to make up for the advantages of storm throw.

Also, I think you would have to do some heavy convincing that resttalking is viable with throw, much less rest without sleep talk

Click to expand...

The reason I added it was due to this post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3409574&postcount=12

I'm not sure if QC has changed their mind or not. I'd be willing to move Brick Break to AC if it's all right with them but I think Rest gives it a bit of staying power, and Throh is quite bulky. Sadly Sleep Talk lost its TM status...

Just a note: Trick users can ruin both of Throh's strategies, and then proceed to wear Throh down with repeated attacks. Also, I've seen a couple of Reuniclus using Trick with Choice items, which are dangerous to Throh on their own, so that might also warrant a comment as well...

I can mention those two things, thanks.

Ok QC time

• I'll be blunt... The pHazer set is awful. Remove that one
• Remove Brick Break (outclassed by Storm Throw aside from breaking screens).
• Slash Stone Edge with Payback (so it will be slashed after two moves now).

QC Approved (1/3)

Good work

.

QC Approved 2/3

Oh good this got approved, changes seem fine. I'll write this up tomorrow.

Okay, this is written.

[Overview]

<p>At first glance, Throh seems to be just an outclassed Fighting-type, with no hope of showing up amongst powerful Pokemon like Conkeldurr. This is only partially the truth. While it is true that Throh is used much lessless popular and can do fewer things effectively than other more powerful Fighting-types, but it does have a couple of tricks up its sleeve.</p>

<p>Throh is the bulkiest Fighting-type that exists in the game, with base 120 HP and 85 defenses, meaning it can take hits even bettertank hits more effectively than Conkeldurr similar Fighting-types. This wouldn't mean too much without the right moves, but Throh also has an exclusive move in Circle Throw, which does modest damage while forcing the opponent out. This means Throh can pseudo-phaze even when under the effects of Taunt, and being the only Fighting-type to do so lets allows Throh handle itself in the Overused tier, assuming it stays in its niche.</p>

[SET]
name: Bulk Up
move 1: Bulk Up
move 2: Circle Throw / Storm Throw
move 3: Payback / Stone Edge
move 4: Rest / Stone Edge
item: Leftovers
ability: Guts
nature: Careful
evs: 208 HP / 48 Atk / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Throh fulfills its niche by using a combination of Bulk Up and Circle Throw, letting allowing it to beat other Bulk Up users like Scrafty and Conkeldurr. Bulk Up is the main move of this set, boosting Throh's Attack and Defense,and making it extremely hard to take out after just one boost. The main choice for an STAB move is Circle Throw, which allows Throh force out other Pokemon trying to force it out themselves. Storm Throw is a useful alternative, as it always gets a critical hit. That means it always gets through the defense boosts of other Bulk Up users.</p>

<p>The other two slots have three options to consider. Payback is the best choice for a coverage move, allowing it to hit Gengar and Jellicent which are immune to Circle Throw. Rest is usually the fourth move on this set, since Throh needs a way to heal off damage and can actually survive the resting turns in many situations. Stone Edge is the alternate choice in either slot, as it does hit Flying-types like Gyarados and Salamence hard super effectively. The other two moves have more utility, however, meaning Stone Edge is less of an option.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Throh has a few other options to consider for a moveslot, though they usually fall behind the listed set. Earthquake can hit the rare Poison-types, but it has far less utility than Payback or Stone Edge would. Revenge is an alternate STAB move, but Throh has to be hit by a move to make it worthwhile, meaning it is unreliable.</p>

<p>As far as teammates go, Pokemon that can set up Toxic Spikes are a huge help for Throh, as they can weaken switch-ins who would want to force Throh out. Forretress and Tentacruel are reliable users of Toxic Spikes to consider. Magnezone is another useful teammate, as it can handle the faster Skarmory, who likes to switch in to use Whirlwind can reliably phaze out Throh with Whirlwind. Lastly, any faster Pokemon that has access to a psuedo-hazing move is a major problem for Throh and needs to be dealt with by teammates.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Throh needs to fill one niche to be useful, meaning it has very few other options. The only real choice to consider is Toxic, letting Throh inflict Poison oncripple other Pokemon itself, but using a Pokemon with Toxic Spikes as a teammate lets Throh handle more threats. However, pairing Throh with a Toxic Spikes user is far more effective to save a moveslot.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Skarmory is the main counter to Throh, as it can take boosted Fighting-type moves and can use Whirlwind before Throh uses Circle Throw. Swampert and Suicune, although uncommon, do a similar job with Roar.</p>

<p>In addition, any Pokemon with a super effective STAB move can give Throh problems. Dragonite and Tornadus need to avoid Stone Edge, but Hurricane takes a huge chunk of damage out of Throh. Reuniclus is slower than Throh, meaning it avoids taking double damage from Payback, and Psychic can deal out major damage. Togekiss and Yanmega also worry about Stone Edge, but have Air Slash. Togekiss needs to worry if Throh has a few boosts, however, and Yanmega can't even take an unboosted Stone Edge, meaning they are somewhat shaky. (You’ve already made it apparent that they can’t take Stone Edge)</p>

<p>Lastly, Trick users cripple Throh, as it needs to be able to switch moves to be useful. A Throh locked on one move can be easily used as set-up bait by the appropriate Pokemon. </p>

[Dream World]

<p>Throh gets Mold Breaker from the Dream World, which is an interesting ability choice. It would allow Throh to hit Gengar, Bronzong, and Rotom-A with Earthquake, which is extremely helpful. It is usually superior to Guts on any Throh using Rest, as those don't fear status at all. In the case that Throh chooses not to carry Rest, Guts is the superior choice to take advantage of any status it takes.</p>

Click to expand...

Just cleaning up the analysis. There were some errors involving redundancy.

sure, thanks for the clean-up.

Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments





GP 1 / 2

Updated.

Circle Throw is not exclusive to Throh, nor is he the only fighting-type to learn it. You're thinking of Storm Throw.

Shoot, you're right. I'll have to rephrase that sentence.

Edit: Okay it's fixed.

2/2

There really isn't anything else to note though for other options, sadly. When Body Slam would actually get thought in that section if I were to expand it I figure I probably shouldn't.

Other than that little note everything else is updated and I'm pretty sure this is done!

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