Vanillite (Analysis)

QC Checks: (2/2) Darkamber, Diana
GP Checks: (2/2) Calm Pokemaster, Cosmicexplorer
Status: Finished...


Vanillite

[OVERVIEW]

<p>Meet Vanillite, the wee little snow cone. Appearances can be deceptive though, as it can dish out quite some hurt with its high Special Attack and great special movepool. Sadly, that is pretty much all that Vanillite has going for it, as its poor Speed and relatively low defenses make it easy to KO. Vanillite also finds itself outclassed most of the time by faster and more powerful threats such as Misdreavus and Carvanha. Still, Vanillite packs a punch, and should always be considered when building a team.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 2: Flash Cannon
move 3: Water Pulse
move 4: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fighting
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Ice Body
nature: Modest
evs: 72 HP / 36 Def / 160 SpA / 120 SpD / 88 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Vanillite's decent Speed, high Special Attack, and large special movepool makes it a fine Choice Scarf user. Ice Beam is Vanillite's most reliable STAB attack, hitting anything that doesn't resist it pretty hard. Blizzard can be used on hail teams and is very powerful, but its lowaccuracy makes it a poor choice. Flash Cannon smashes Rock-types to bits, and also hurts opposing Ice-types significantly. Water Pulse deals with Fire-types such as Houndour who pose a massive threat to Vanillite, making it harder for the mentioned threats to switch in safely. There are two options for the last moveslot. While Hidden Power Grass hits Water-types who sponge Vanillite's other moves easily, Hidden Power Fighting allows it to deal with Steel-types such as Ferroseed.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread maximizes Vanillite's Special Attack whilealso buffing up its defenses and allowing it to outspeed most unboosted Pokemon. This set also needs some team support to make any impact. Wooper, Staryu, and Carvanha pose problems if Vanillite lacks Hidden Power Grass, meaning a Grass-type such as Snover makes a great teammate. Snover also sets up hail, allowing Vanillite to fire off accurate Blizzards and activating Ice Body. Chinchou can also deal with Water-types easily, making it a fine partner as well. A Rapid Spin user such as Baltoy also aids Vanillite immensely, removing Stealth Rock while also dealing with Fighting-types such as Timburr.</p>

[SET]
name: Autotomize
move 1: Autotomize
move 2: Ice Beam / Blizzard
move 3: Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Substitute / Taunt
item: Life Orb
ability: Ice Body
nature: Modest
evs: 240 SpA / 248 Spe
ivs: 27 HP / 30 Def / 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Vanillite can also run a boosting set to decent success. Autotomize doubles Vanillite's Speed, allowing it to sweep after just a single turn of setup. Ice Beam and Blizzard are both options for a STAB move. While the former is much more reliable and makes for the better choice overall, Blizzard has a much higher Base Power and is accurate in hail, though support from Snover is mandatory for it to be usable. The choice of Hidden Power depends on what threats bother Vanillite more. Hidden Power Grass decimates any Water-types switching in to sponge Ice Beam, and also smacks most Rock-types hard, while Hidden Power Fighting deals with the pesky Steel-types who laugh at Vanillite's other moves. There are two options for the final moveslot. Substitute prevents Vanillite's sweep from being cut short by status conditions and also grants it an easier setup, making it the better option most of the time. However, Taunt renders attempts to phaze Vanillite useless, and also stops entry hazards from being set up.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EV spread is very simple, maximizing Vanillite's Special Attack and Speed. 27 HP IVs give Vanillite 19 HP, minimizing Life Orb recoil. If Hidden Power Grass is used, however, an IV spread of 27 HP / 30 Atk / 30 SpA should be used. Snover once again makes a fine teammate for Vanillite, eliminating Grass-types and setting up hail. Baltoy is also a fine partner, removing entry hazards with Rapid Spin and dealing with Fighting-type priority users such as Timburr and Croagunk.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]

<p>Explosion can be used to break through special walls such as Munchlax and Mantyke, but the nerf which Explosion received in BW, coupled with Vanillite's low Attack, make it a poor choice. Ice Shard can give Vanillite a useful priority move, but as mentioned, Vanillite's Attack stat is unimpressive. Vanillite can also run a Choice Specs set thanks to its high Special Attack and great special movepool, but its poor Speed makes it easy to revenge kill Vanillite. Focus Sash can go over Life Orb on the Autotomize set to prevent priority attacks such as Mach Punch from ruining Vanillite's fun, but the ubiquity of entry hazards and weather render it useless more often than not. Finally, Vanillite also has access to support options such as Reflect, Light Screen, Toxic, Acid Armor, and Protect, and can run a decent defensive set with an Eviolite, but it is better off just attacking.</p>

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]

<p>Vanillite's low Speed and weaknesses to common Fire- and Fighting-type attacks make many common Pokemon a good check. Powerful priority users such as Meditite and Timburr make reliable checks to Vanillite regardless of how many Speed boosts it has obtained. Special walls such as Munchlax can take all of Vanillite's attacks with ease and hit back hard with their STAB attacks. Bronzor makes a fine check as well, as it sponges all of Vanillite's attacks while dishing out massive damage with Gyro Ball. If Vanillite lacks Hidden Power Grass, bulky Water-types such as Slowpoke and Tentacool can wall Vanillite with ease. Finally, Fighting-types such as Mienfoo, Meditite, and Timburr smash Vanillite to bits with their STAB attacks while not taking too much damage from Ice Beam.</p>
 
Skeleton is up. I'm new to this so right now... I have to wait for QC right?

Also how do you change the title? =/ (I'm such a noob)
 
Edit --> Go Advanced --> (The title should be right there for you to change)

In my opinion, Vanillite isn't bulky enough for the Mixed Wall set, so you might want to remove that set entirely. Focus Sash shouldn't be used because Sandstorm breaks it. The EVs also don't work for Little Cup:

EV Distribution in Little Cup

Little Cup is a metagame that is played at Level 5. As such, the stats are calculated in a different way. To be efficient with EVs and not miss out on free stat points, Pokémon at Level 5 need a type of EV spreads different from Level 100 Pokemon. This guide will attempt to explain how to achieve the maximum potential of the 510 EV points you have at your disposal.

At Level 100 each 4 EVs give a single stat point for every Pokémon and every stat, but because Little Cup is played at Level 5 this in not the case. Depending on the number that the base stat for that Pokémon finishes in, your investment for a single point may be as high as 76, or a low as 4. Once you have boosted that stat by a single point each successive point requires an extra 80 EVs.

The necessary investment for extra points is as follows: Number the base stat ends in - First extra point/Second extra point/Third extra point/Fourth extra point (if applicable).

3 - 12/92/172/252 EVs
4 - 4/84/164/244 EVs
5 - 76/156/236 EVs
6 - 68/148/228 EVs
7 - 60/140/220 EVs
8 - 52/132/212 EVs
9 - 44/124/204 EVs
0 - 36/116/196 EVs
1 - 28/108/188 EVs
2 - 20/100/180 EVs
Quoted from an article on Smogon, just to help you out.
Also, I could be wrong, but I think Autotomize is incompatible with Water Pulse due to breeding restrictions.
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Also, I could be wrong, but I think Autotomize is incompatible with Water Pulse due to breeding restrictions.
Confirming. Only Steelix, the Geodude family, and the Roggenrola family can pass down Autotomize. None of them can learn Water Pulse (which is btw passed down through the Snorunt family).

edit: btw Iron Defense + Ice Shard is illegal as well

edit2: Iron Defense + Water Pulse is illegal (Water Pulse + Ice Shard is legal)
 
EV Distribution in Little Cup

Little Cup is a metagame that is played at Level 5. As such, the stats are calculated in a different way. To be efficient with EVs and not miss out on free stat points, Pokémon at Level 5 need a type of EV spreads different from Level 100 Pokemon. This guide will attempt to explain how to achieve the maximum potential of the 510 EV points you have at your disposal.

At Level 100 each 4 EVs give a single stat point for every Pokémon and every stat, but because Little Cup is played at Level 5 this in not the case. Depending on the number that the base stat for that Pokémon finishes in, your investment for a single point may be as high as 76, or a low as 4. Once you have boosted that stat by a single point each successive point requires an extra 80 EVs.

The necessary investment for extra points is as follows: Number the base stat ends in - First extra point/Second extra point/Third extra point/Fourth extra point (if applicable).

3 - 12/92/172/252 EVs
4 - 4/84/164/244 EVs
5 - 76/156/236 EVs
6 - 68/148/228 EVs
7 - 60/140/220 EVs
8 - 52/132/212 EVs
9 - 44/124/204 EVs
0 - 36/116/196 EVs
1 - 28/108/188 EVs
2 - 20/100/180 EVs
I'm sorry but I don't get what this quote is talking about. >_< (Sorry for being a noob) Is it ok if you can explain it to me? I will be sure to edit my sets once I understand this EV spread. Thanks =)

I don't understand the extra points. What do you mean by extra points?
 
I'm sorry but I don't get what this quote is talking about. >_< (Sorry for being a noob) Is it ok if you can explain it to me? I will be sure to edit my sets once I understand this EV spread. Thanks =)

I don't understand the extra points. What do you mean by extra points?
If the base stat ends in, oh say...4? Then 4, 84, 164, or 244 evs will be needed to add points into the stat. For example, Vanillite's base Speed is 44. In order to raise it by one point, you need 4 evs. In order to raise it by two points, you need 84 evs. Etc.

Unlike for lvl 100s, 4 evs does not always equal an extra point into the stat. The total number of EVs that you need for a Little Cup pokemon will usually not add up to 508 like the normal tiers. It's a bit difficult to understand, which is why I just use the stat calculator to determine which evs would work.
 
You need life orb on the first set. Focus Sash kinda sucks for a sweeper because of all the priority in the metagame, so life orb would definitely be the best option, especially since you need the added power.

Also, on the first set, your EVs are wrong. Use 236 SpA / 244 Spe, a Modest nature, and 10 HP IVs.

You need max hp on the wall set. Just in general, maxing HP is better than maxing both defenses. Run something like 228 HP / 36 Atk / 196 Def / 40 SpD. Also, Eviolite is the only option on the last set. Lefties and Sash kinda suck.

Babiri, Occa, and Charti berry are really bad options, as steel, fire and rock-type attacks aren't common enough in Little Cup to make the resist berry worth a place over Eviolite.

I'd use Toxic over Mirror Coat on the wall set, as Mirror Coat isn't incredibly useful on a poke as frail as Vanillite, even with Light Screen.
 

Diana

This isn't even my final form
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
If you're having trouble with the EV's, bring up PO's teambuilder, start a new team, and get a level 5 Vanillite with the desired Hidden Power and experiment with what gets you the stats you want with the fewest EV's possible.

Also sadly Vanillite's best option with Water Pulse unavailable is the terrible Flash Cannon...

Edit: Actually it also gets Explosion which doesn't sound great but neither does Flash Cannon.
 
If you're having trouble with the EV's, bring up PO's teambuilder, start a new team, and get a level 5 Vanillite with the desired Hidden Power and experiment with what gets you the stats you want with the fewest EV's possible.

Also sadly Vanillite's best option with Water Pulse unavailable is the terrible Flash Cannon...

Edit: Actually it also gets Explosion which doesn't sound great but neither does Flash Cannon.
Wow that's a great idea I never thought of that. Thanks for helping me.
I will add everyone's suggestions tomorrow since I'm tired (yawn...)
 
You need life orb on the first set. Focus Sash kinda sucks for a sweeper because of all the priority in the metagame, so life orb would definitely be the best option, especially since you need the added power.

Also, on the first set, your EVs are wrong. Use 236 SpA / 244 Spe, a Modest nature, and 10 HP IVs.

You need max hp on the wall set. Just in general, maxing HP is better than maxing both defenses. Run something like 228 HP / 36 Atk / 196 Def / 40 SpD. Also, Eviolite is the only option on the last set. Lefties and Sash kinda suck.

Babiri, Occa, and Charti berry are really bad options, as steel, fire and rock-type attacks aren't common enough in Little Cup to make the resist berry worth a place over Eviolite.

I'd use Toxic over Mirror Coat on the wall set, as Mirror Coat isn't incredibly useful on a poke as frail as Vanillite, even with Light Screen.
Ok thanks for the suggestions. By the way can you explain how you come up with these EV spreads? Did you use this list to make up the EV spread?

3 - 12/92/172/252 EVs
4 - 4/84/164/244 EVs
5 - 76/156/236 EVs
6 - 68/148/228 EVs
7 - 60/140/220 EVs
8 - 52/132/212 EVs
9 - 44/124/204 EVs
0 - 36/116/196 EVs
1 - 28/108/188 EVs
2 - 20/100/180 EVs
 
Ok thanks for the suggestions. By the way can you explain how you come up with these EV spreads? Did you use this list to make up the EV spread?

3 - 12/92/172/252 EVs
4 - 4/84/164/244 EVs
5 - 76/156/236 EVs
6 - 68/148/228 EVs
7 - 60/140/220 EVs
8 - 52/132/212 EVs
9 - 44/124/204 EVs
0 - 36/116/196 EVs
1 - 28/108/188 EVs
2 - 20/100/180 EVs
You an simply load PO and find the minimum number of EVs required to max each stat that you need to max
 
Can you just implement the changes I suggested? The EV spread I provided will work just fine
Can't do. From the suggestions above, Water Pulse can't go with Autotomize so I need to make a new set. =) Anyways like I said, if I want to maximize Vanillite's SpAtk the EV for SpAtk would be 240 right? Your answer can make things more clear for me. Thanks! =)

Also how much should the EVs add up to? Does it add up to 510 or lower?
 
Explain to me why I would ever, ever, ever, ever, ever use a defensive Vanillite, with shitty defenses that require setup to take an actual hit, backed by a SR weakness, a grand total of one resistance, and no reliable recovery.

Icy Wind is cool. It's like a shitty Ice Beam and a shitty Automize, all in one. You can throw it out to do some damage while still outspeeding nearly everything.

Taunt is cool. So is Substitute. They could go in the last slot of the Automize set.

Explosion is cool for special walls like, um, Munchlax. Or Mantyke. Or something.

Frost Breath gets around defense boosts.

BTW, mention Munchlax in counters, it sucks up HP Fighting and kills with Return.

Slowpoke resists that moveset and kills it too.

Practically anything that is mildly bulky and not weak to its attacks can kill it, like Misdreavus, Meditite, Mantyke, etc.
 
Okey Dokey. Skeleton is up. I added most of everyone's suggestions and added a new set. Now I wait for QC checks right? =)
 
eh

You do not need an entire set for Explosion. It is not actually good enough to deserve a set. Put it in OO.

The walling set sucks horribly and should also be removed, because of shitty defenses that require setup to take an actual hit, backed by a SR weakness, a grand total of one resistance, and no reliable recovery. Put Eviolite, Acid Armor, Light Screen, Mirror Coat, and Toxic into OO.

Frillish also resists Ice/Fighting. Most mildly builky water-types can take hits and Hydro Pump it to oblivion.

You should put the proper IVs for Hidden Power Fighting. I don't think 10/31/31/31/31/31 is a 70 base power HP Fighting. But I could be wrong.

Mention HP Electric for killing Waters and providing BoltBeam coverage at the expense of Steels and Munchlax.
 
Tentacool also adds to the list of things that resist Ice/Fighting coverage... Wow this thing just sucks in general tbh
 
Ok I'll make the changes soon. I have a new set in mind. And yes... this pokemon isn't exactly the best but I took it because it was a challenge.
 

iss

let's play bw lc!
is a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
It's not [Set 1], [Set 2], [Set 3], etc. it's just [SET]

edit: what darkamber said too
 

Diana

This isn't even my final form
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
27/31/30/30/30/30 gets 70 BP HP Fighting while landing you at 19 HP, use that.

27/31/31/30/31/31 for HP Electric if you use that.
 

Diana

This isn't even my final form
is a Researcher Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
I wouldn't bother with Mirror Shot for a slash on the second set but I'm not QC either.

And you can just use standard IV's for HP Electric and Fighting in the second set, I doubt you need to post special IV's since you're not lowering HP there.
 

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