Shaymin-S (GP 2/2)

Lemonade

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Taking over for giggity69

[Overview]

<p>Shaymin-S holds the title of the first Pokemon to be unanimously banned from the OU tier. Whether it was existing bias in the form of "60% = 100%", or that it was just that good, Shaymin-S once again finds its home among the Uber Pokemon. Excellent base 127 Speed and decent base 120 Special Attack make this flying deer a solid choice offensively, especially because its ability, Serene Grace, abuses the side effects of Seed Flare and Air Slash to great effect. Unfortunately, Shaymin-S is still weak to Stealth Rock, although this matters less than it would for more defensively inclined Pokemon; Shaymin-S's 100 / 75 / 75 defenses are hardly enough to shoulder the powerful moves in the tier. Overall, Shaymin-S is very much the same Pokemon it was in DPP, causing rage quits since September 12, 2008.</p>

[SET]
name: Substitute + Leech Seed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Seed Flare
move 4: Air Slash / Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Shaymin-S can successfully employ the SubSeed strategy due to its extremely high Speed. In fact, it is outsped only by Jumpluff in the sun and Ludicolo in the rain, whereas Prankster Whimsicott has priority SubSeed. Fortunately, all three of these are relatively uncommon in Ubers, so the competition is virtually nil. While it may be tempting to use Whimsicott, remember that Shaymin-S has a great base 120 Special Attack, allowing it to take on a more offensive approach. As with all SubSeed strategies, one starts by switching in Shaymin-S to scare off certain whales or behemoths. Then, it can Substitute on the switch and begin to wreak havoc, alternating between Substitute and an attack after Leech Seed. Alternatively, Seed Flare can force switches, as the Special Defense drops cause plenty of fleeing for Shaymin-S to take advantage of. Air Slash fills the last slot to annoy any victim that stays in; its health will be slowly sapped by Air Slash, unable to fight back due to the excessive flinching. Hidden Power Fire and Earth Power are also options to hit Scizor and Dialga, respectively, but Air Slash's high flinch chance makes it too good to pass up.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs accentuate Shaymin-S's strong points, Special Attack and Speed. There is little use in investing in defenses, as by Uber standards, 100 / 75 / 75 is rather poor. A Timid nature takes advantage of Shaymin-S's unique Speed tier, ensuring it is not outsped by any Arceus or Darkrai; a Special Attack-boosting nature is less important because the offensive moves are used only for their secondary effects, not for damage output. Hidden Power Ice can surprise Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp, but as mentioned, Shaymin-S will find it difficult to fit it onto its moveset.</p>

<p>Tons of Pokemon aid Shaymin-S in endlessly annoying its opponents with SubSeed. Wobbuffet is especially notable, as it can prey on the Choice Scarf users that aim to take down speedy Shaymin-S. In addition, the blue blob can use Encore to give Shaymin-S a free opportunity to set up. Deoxys-S is another great partner, as it provides entry hazard support to whittle down the opponents' health from the number of switches the SubSeed strategy forces. Forretress also pairs well in this regard, providing Rapid Spin support and setting up Toxic Spikes to further wear down walls.</p>

<p>Shaymin-S without Hidden Power Fire must be wary of Scizor, as its priority Bullet Punch bypasses Shaymin-S's high Speed. Skarmory also walls Shaymin-S lacking Hidden Power Fire, using Roost to heal off damage and phazing Shaymin-S out. Groudon provides necessary support to take these threats out. Rayquaza sets up on any set lacking Hidden Power Ice, outspeeding and destroying Shaymin-S after boosts from Dragon Dance. Likewise, Dialga will take advantage of any Shaymin-S set without Earth Power. Without a Special Defense drop provided by Seed Flare, both Calm Mind Giratina and Calm Mind Giratina-O have the potential to outstall Shaymin-S.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Seed Flare / Leaf Storm
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>When equipped with a Choice Scarf, Shaymin-S becomes a great revenge killer, outspeeding the entire unboosted tier. It can also function as a lead, flinching threats such as Darkrai to death before they can even respond. Seed Flare is the main STAB attack, having the ability to neutralize switch-ins with a Special Defense drop. Air Slash complements this move very well, also receives STAB, and can KO opponents lacking a resistance simply through repeated flinches. Earth Power provides coverage against those that resist Seed Flare and Air Slash, namely, Steel-types such as Dialga, Jirachi, and Metagross. Hidden Power Ice has the most utility on a Choice Scarf set, revenge killing other common Pokemon with a +1 boost such as Garchomp, opposing Shaymin-S, and Dragon Dance Salamence and Rayquaza.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Leaf Storm is a more powerful alternative than Seed Flare right off the bat, and it is viable on a set that switches as often as this. However, it drops Shaymin-S's Special Attack by 2 stages, making additional hits very weak; repeated Seed Flares will most likely increase damage output due to the Special Defense drops it can inflict, too. Another way to augment power is with the nature. Modest is preferred for a revenge killing role, as Choice Scarf Shaymin-S outspeeds even Timid Choice Scarf Palkia. However, a Timid nature is viable if one prefers Shaymin-S to be a lead, as the extra Speed is needed to outpace Darkrai. Either way, it is a great check to standard Rock Polish Groudon, as even at +2, Groudon is outsped and OHKOed by Shaymin-S.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an option over Hidden Power Ice to incinerate Scizor, but this choice leaves Shaymin-S vulnerable to other Shaymin-S sets. Rapid Spin support is appreciated, as Choice Scarf Shaymin-S will most likely be switching constantly. Likewise, entry hazards support is appreciated to wear down opponents. Shaymin-S must watch out for Pokemon that resist Grass-type moves or have high Special Defense, such as Rayquaza, Dialga, and Latias, as they can come in and set up with ease. Mixed Dialga is thus a good teammate since it is able to deal with Blissey, Latias, Skarmory, and Swords Dance Rayquaza for Shaymin-S.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Sweeper
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Growth
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 29 HP

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With excellent Special Attack and Speed stats even by Ubers standards, as well as a movepool that gives it good coverage, Shaymin-S makes a dangerous special sweeper. Seed Flare is what makes Shaymin-S so fearsome, as with Serene Grace there is a high chance of inflicting that Special Defense drop. After that, Shaymin-S can plow through the opponent or continue to assault the switch-in with its powerful attacks. One must be wary of spamming this move, however, as the prevalence of Pressure users means its PP could drop at an alarming rate. Air Slash is a secondary STAB move that has a great flinch chance, decimating switch-ins before they can even retaliate in conjunction with the Special Defense drops which Seed Flare can cause. Earth Power provides coverage on Steel-types such as Dialga, who resist both Seed Flare and Air Slash. However, this is hardly a problem if they have been inflicted with the Special Defense drops. The final slot is given to Hidden Power Fire, which KOes Scizor and Skarmory, both of whom 4x resist Seed Flare.</p>

<p>A few other moves can work in the last slot as well. Hidden Power Ice is one option, KOing Lugia if it has already been hit with a Special Defense drop. This also applies to Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O, who could otherwise take Hidden Power Ice with ease. On the other hand, Growth forgoes coverage and gives Shaymin-S the ability to boost its Special Attack instead of relying upon Seed Flare's Special Defense drops. While the Attack boost would be unhelpful for the most part, +1 in Special Attack will allow Shaymin-S to take down Pokemon it would otherwise fail to KO. This becomes more useful in the sun, as Growth will grant a +2 boost to Special Attack; Shaymin-S can then proceed to decimate weakened teams with its decent three-move coverage of Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>The EVs are straightforward here, bolstering Special Attack and Speed to their maximum levels. Once again, a Timid nature is preferred over a Special Attack-boosting nature because of Shaymin-S's unique base Speed. The final 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense to ensure the maximal number of switch-ins to Stealth Rock. The IVs serve a very particular purpose, namely to reduce Life Orb recoil, allowing Shaymin-S to survive 11 whiplashes instead of 10. Speaking of items, Life Orb is preferred to maximize damage output, which is especially devastating in conjunction with Seed Flare's effect. However, Leftovers provides passive recovery to increase Shaymin-S's survivability, especially when used with Growth, as Shaymin-S will then be powering up itself and the extra power of Life Orb is secondary.</p>

<p>The easiest way to take down Shaymin-S is with faster attackers. Priority easily KOes this frail flier, especially after Stealth Rock damage and Life Orb recoil, as it has no priority of its own to retaliate with. Furthermore, Scizor can Pursuit a fleeing Shaymin-S, ensuring that it will die to Stealth Rock the next time it switchs in. Choice Scarf users are in the same boat, especially those that resist Seed Flare and Air Slash, such as Jirachi, Metagross, Heatran, and Dialga. Once again, Wobbuffet deals with these Choice-locked opponents, and can help Shaymin set up Growth with Encore. Ho-Oh walls Shaymin-S cold, as it can easily take Air Slash with its massive Special Defense. Groudon is a helpful partner, KOing most Steel-types with Earthquake and checking Ho-Oh to an extent.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid/ Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>A Choice Specs set is a different take on Shaymin-S, affording it immediate power without the recoil of Life Orb. Seed Flare maims any switch-in that does not resist Grass-type moves, and even those that do pack a resistance must be wary of the Special Defense drops; if Shaymin-S outspeeds, the opponent will inevitably fall. Air Slash provides a second STAB move, and is especially great because of its 60% chance to flinch the opponent. Due to the fact that Choice Specs powers up Shaymin-S's special attacks, less Air Slash uses would be needed than without the boost, and thus there is a higher chance the opponent will be flinched to death before it can retaliate. Earth Power provides additional coverage, hitting the Steel-types that resist Grass- and Flying-type moves, such as Dialga and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice rounds out the coverage, OHKOing Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp; tread carefully around Choice Scarf variants of the latter, though, as they will outspeed and deal massive damage if not OHKOed.<p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an alternative in the last slot, as with it Shaymin-S will be able to beat Skarmory and Scizor. The EVs are distributed to maximize power and Speed, indicative of an offensive set; the last 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense to avoid an even HP stat, providing more switch-ins into Stealth Rock. The choice between a Modest and Timid nature depends on whether one wants the extra power afforded by the former or the extra Speed to get the jump on Darkrai and maximum Speed Arceus formes afforded by the latter. For example, Modest Choice Specs Seed Flare has a 58% chance to KO Blissey, provided the first Seed Flare inflicts the Special Defense drop. Such a feat is not possible with a Timid nature.</p>

<p>Pokemon that can take a Seed Flare are generally the best counters to Shaymin-S. Blissey can stall it out with a combination of Wish and Protect, cripple it with Thunder Wave or Toxic, or deal massive damage with Ice Beam. Skarmory can either Whirlwind Shaymin-S or KO it with Brave Bird. Any Pokemon with a powerful STAB move can easily revenge kill Shaymin-S, such as Palkia and Kyogre. Wobbuffet is a good partner to deal with these threats. Ho-Oh is not afraid of any move Shaymin-S carries, and it can use its Fire- or Flying-type STAB to take out Shaymin-S. Ferrothorn and Bronzong can survive long enough against Seed Flare to 2HKO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Shaymin-S has a few other options it can consider. A Swords Dance set is possible, as Shaymin-S has access to powerful physical moves in Seed Bomb and Return. Unfortunately, the rest of its physical movepool is barren. Hidden Power Rock is a viable alternative to other Hidden Power types for KOing Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, 2HKOing Rayquaza, and 2HKOing opposing Shaymin-S, but has little added coverage outside of that. A Yache Berry allows Shaymin-S to bluff a Choice set and survive Ice Beam, but more powerful users of the move will OHKO Shaymin-S regardless. Lastly, our flying deer makes good use of Healing Wish due to its high Speed. This move can give a sweeper another chance to plow through the opposing team, especially after a counter to said sweeper is removed. However, this is generally situational, and may end up being an unneeded move in most matches.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Skarmory comfortably sponges Seed Flare and can retaliate with either Whirlwind or Brave Bird, provided it is not met with a Hidden Power Fire. Bronzong is a similar case, tanking both Seed Flare and Air Slash with ease, and can KO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball. Ho-Oh, as long as it has a reasonable amount of health left, laughs at Air Slash and can KO back with either of its STAB moves or even Whirlwind Shaymin-S away. Steel Arceus is another great choice to counter Shaymin-S, as it is bulky enough to take an Earth Power or two and has access to Recover and Roar.</p>

<p>Choice Scarf users such as Dialga, Heatran, Jirachi, and Metagross can use their resistances to switch in and KO, making them great checks too. Pokemon with priority, such as Mamoswine and Scizor, bypass Shaymin-S's high Speed and maim it. Scizor must be careful, though, as after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, it will fall to Air Slash, because its Bullet Punch is unable to KO Shaymin-S even after Stealth Rock. Bisharp is another check in this priority category, as it is immune to flinching due to Inner Focus and can 2HKO Shaymin-S with Sucker Punch. Ferrothorn would be a great counter, but it is very susceptible to flinches from Air Slash, and Gyro Ball can only 2HKO. Likewise, Lugia and Latias can KO Shaymin-S with Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse, respectively, but must be wary of Seed Flare followed by Air Slash flinches.</p>
 
I've always found SubSeed to be the most effective set. Air slash was MADE for SubSeeder, so I guess I'm requesting that it be the first set.
 

Theorymon

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Wheres the Choice Scarf set? It should be in this analysis, right below the Subseed set.
 

shrang

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Blissey is arguably the most reliable counter to Shaymin-S. It can cripple Shaymin-S with either Toxic or Thunder Wave or beat it with Ice Beam.
I would suggest moving this down in the counters section. Blissey isn't a very reliable counter to Shaymin-S at all, the only real set you're beating is Scarf. She can't beat SubSeed at all, unless she double switches into Skymin, while she risks losing to the other sets through Seed Flare SpD drops and Air Slash flinches.
 

Lemonade

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yeah I definitely had issues with "most reliable." I'll word that better when I finish the write up, but for now, moved.
 
Blissey does stop Shaymin-S, because she can just stall out all the PP with Protect and Wish. This is assuming Blissey can switch out though, because Special Defense drops + repeated flinches isn't fun. Chansey sucks as a counter but Blissey can just Protect to gain extra recovery from Leftovers, enough to out stall Air Slash which won't do much to Blissey at all.

Where is Ho-Oh as a counter? It's one of the best counters to Shaymin-S there is. Very high Special Defense, dual STABs which will OHKO you and even Whirlwind if Ho-Oh wants to. Defensive Ho-Oh's Sub will survive Shaymin-S's Air Slash.

I think Ferrothorn sucks as a Shaymin-S counter because Air Slash can just keep on flinching it. Ferrothorn can't even recover because Shaymin-S is immune to Grass-type attacks, Leech Seed. Gyro Ball will 2HKO Shaymin-S but Shaymin-S can just flinch you repeatedly, and Ferrothorn doesn't even resist Air Slash! The only time Ferrothorn can come in is on Choiced Shaymin-S stuck on Seed Flare, Leaf Storm or Hidden Power Ice.

Steel Arceus is probably the best counter to Shaymin-S with it's great bulk, access to Roar and Recover. Keep in mind Scizor is a sub par check at best because CB Bullet Punch doesn't do enough to KO even after SR. If Scizor comes in on Seed Flare, the next Air Slash will almost kill it. Since Bisharp is approved anyway, you should mention it as a check. It is immune to flinching because of Inner Focus while Sucker Punch 2HKOes. Bronzong resists everything and survives even HP Fire easily, Gyro Ball 2HKOes.
 

Lemonade

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This is written, so if any GPer *wants* to start and work, they can. However, I will be polishing the prose over the next few days (unless I get a GP first)
 

His Eminence Lord Poppington II

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mention expert belt in OO with HP fire and/or earth power to bluff a choice item and smack things like ferro / dialga coming in on seed flare for an ohko if a sp.d drop occurs.
 
Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments


[Overview]

<p>Shaymin-S holds the title of the first Pokemon to be unanimously banned from the OU tier. Whether it was existing bias in the form of "60% = 100%", or that it was just that good, Shaymin-S once again finds its home among the Uber Pokemon. Its great excellent 127 base 127 Speed and decent base 120 Special Attack make this flying deer a solid choice offensively, especially because its ability, Serene Grace, abuses the side effects of Seed Flare and Air Slash to great effect. Unfortunately, Shaymin-S is still weak to Stealth Rock, although this matters less than it would for more defensively inclined Pokemon; Shaymin-S's 100 / 75 / 75 defenses are hardly enough to shoulder the powerful moves in the tier. Overall, Shaymin-S is very much the same Pokemon it was in Generation IV, causing rage quits since September 12, 2008.</p>

[SET]
name: Substitute + Leech Seed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Seed Flare
move 4: Air Slash / Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Shaymin-S can successfully employ the SubSeed strategy due to its blazing fast Speed, outsped only by Jumpluff in the sun, and Ludicolo in the rain; Prankster Whimsicott gets priority on SubSeed, though and Prankster Whimsicott. (technically, Prankster Whimsicott doesn't outspeed Shaymin-S; it only gets priority on SubSeed) All three of these are relatively uncommon in Ubers, so the competition is virtually nil. While it may be tempting to use Whimsicott, remember that Shaymin-S has a great base 120 Special Attack, allowing it to take on a more offensive approach. As with all SubSeed strategies, one starts by switching in Shaymin-S to scare off certain whales or behemoths. Then, it can Substitute on the switch and begin to wreak havoc, alternating between Substitute and an attack after Leech Seed. Alternatively, Seed Flare can force the switches, as the Special Defense drops cause plenty of fleeing for Shaymin-S to take advantage of. Air Slash fills the last slot to annoy any victim that stays in; its health will be slowly sapped as it flinches to death. Hidden Power Fire and Earth Power are also options to hit Scizor and Dialga, respectively, but the Air Slash's high flinch chance makes it too good to pass up.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The EVs accentuate Shaymin-S's strong points, Special Attack and Speed. There is little use in investing in defenses, as by Uber standards, 100 / 75 / 75 defenses are rather poor. A Timid nature takes advantage of Shaymin-S's unique Speed tier, ensuring it is not outsped by any Arceus forme or Darkrai; a positive Special Attack-boosting nature is less important because the offensive moves are used only for their secondary effects, not for damage output. However, Hidden Power Fire or Ice, or Earth Power can provide good coverage, hitting Scizor, Garchomp, and Dialga, respectively Hidden Power Ice can surprise Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp, but as mentioned, Shaymin-S will find it difficult to fit it onto its moveset.</p>

<p>Tons of Pokemon aid Shaymin-S in endlessly annoying its opponents with SubSeed its subseeding efforts. Wobbuffet is especially notable, as it can prey on the Choice Scarf users that aim to take down the speedy Shaymin-S. In addition, the blue blob can use Encore to give Shaymin-S a free opportunity to set up. Deoxys-S is another great partner, as it provides entry hazard support to whittle down the opponents' health from the number of switches the SubSeed strategy forces. Forretress pairs well in this regard, and also providing Rapid Spin support for the Stealth Rock weak Shaymin forme, to mitigate Shaymin-S's Stealth Rock weakness somewhat and setting up Toxic Spikes to further wear down walls.</p>

<p>Shaymin-S without Hidden Power Fire must be wary of Scizor, since its priority Bullet Punch bypasses Shaymin-S's high Speed. Skarmory similarly too walls Shaymin-S without lacking Hidden Power Fire, using Roost to heal off damage and phazing Shaymin-S out. Groudon provides necessary support to take these threats out. Rayquaza sets up on any set lacking Hidden Power Ice, outspeeding and destroying Shaymin-S after speed the boosts from Dragon Dance. Likewise, Dialga will take advantage of any Shaymin-S set without Earth Power. Without a Special Defense drop provided by Seed Flare, both Calm Mind Giratina and Calm Mind Giratina-O have the potential to outstall Shaymin-S.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Seed Flare / Leaf Storm
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>When equipped with a Choice Scarf, Shaymin-S becomes a great revenge killer, outspeeding the entire unboosted tier. It can also function as a lead, flinching Pokemon threats such as Darkrai to death before it they can even respond. Seed Flare is the main STAB attack, having the capability of neutralizing ability to neutralize switch-ins with a Special Defense drop. Air Slash complements this move very well, also receives STAB, and can KO an opponents without resistance lacking a resistance simply through repeated flinches. Earth Power provides coverage against those that resist Seed Flare and Air Slash, namely, Steel-types such as Dialga, Jirachi, and Metagross. Hidden Power Ice has the most utility on a Choice Scarf set, revenge killing other common Pokemon with a +1 boost such as Garchomp, opposing Shaymin-S, and Dragon Dance Salamence and Rayquaza.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Leaf Storm is a more powerful alternative than Seed Flare right off the bat, and is viable with a Choice Scarf set due to the constant switching of Choice item sets on this set which will be switching frequently in any case. However, it drops Shaymin-S's Special Attack by 2 stages, making additional hits very weak; continued repeated Seed Flares uses will most likely increase damage output due to the Special Defense drops it can inflict, too. Another way to augment power is with the nature. Modest is preferred for a revenge killing role, as Choice Scarf Shaymin-S outspeeds even Timid Choice Scarf Palkia. However, a Timid nature is viable if one prefers Shaymin-S to be a lead, as the extra Speed is needed to outpace Darkrai. Either way, it is a great check to standard Rock Polish Groudon, as even at +2, Groudon is outsped and OHKOed by Shaymin-S.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an option over Hidden Power Ice to incinerate Scizor, but this choice leaves Shaymin-S vulnerable to other Shaymin-S sets. Rapid Spin support is appreciated, as Choice Scarf Shaymin-S will most likely be switching constantly. Likewise, entry hazards support is appreciated to wear down opponents. Shaymin-S must watch out for Pokemon that resist Grass-type moves or have high Special Defense, such as Rayquaza, Dialga, and Latias, as they can come in and set up with ease. Mixed Dialga is thus a good teammate since it is able to deal with Blissey, Latias, Skarmory, and Swords Dance Rayquaza for Shaymin-S.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Sweeper
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Growth
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 29 HP

[Set Comments]

<p>With great 120 base Special attack and 127 base Speed, Shaymin-S can become a dangerous sweeper With excellent Special Attack and Speed stats even by Ubers standards, as well as a movepool that gives it good coverage, Shaymin-S makes a dangerous special sweeper. Seed Flare is what makes Shaymin-S so fearsome, as with Serene Grace there is a high chance of inflicting that Special Defense drop. After that, Shaymin-S can plow through the opponent, or continue to assault the switch-in with its powerful attacks. One must be wary of spamming this move, however, as the prevalence of Pressure users means its PP could drop too fast for comfort. Air Slash is a secondary STAB move that has a great flinch chance, When considered with the potential Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, Air Slash can decimating switch-ins before they can even retaliate in conjunction with the Special Defense drops which Seed Flare can cause. Earth Power provides coverage on Steel-types such as Dialga, who resist both Seed Flare and Air Slash. However, this is hardly a problem if they have been inflicted with the Special Defense drops. The final slot is given to Hidden Power Fire, which KOes Scizor and Skarmory, both of whom 4x resist Seed Flare.</p>

<p>A few other moves can work in the last slot as well. Hidden Power Ice is one option, KOing Lugia if it has already been hit with a Special Defense drop. This also applies to Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O, who could otherwise take Hidden Power Ice with ease. On the other hand, Growth forgoes coverage and gives Shaymin-S the ability to boost its Special Attack instead of relying upon Seed Flare's Special Defense drops. While the Attack boost would be unhelpful for the most part, +1 in Special Attack will allow Shaymin-S to take down Pokemon it would otherwise fail to KO. This becomes more useful in the sun, as Growth will grant a +2 boost to Special Attack; Shaymin-S can then proceed to decimate weakened teams with its decent three-move coverage of Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The EVs are straightforward here, bolstering Special Attack and Speed to their maximum levels. Once again, a Timid nature is preferred over a Special Attack-boosting nature because of Shaymin-S's unique base Speed. The final 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense to ensure the maximal number of switch-ins to Stealth Rock. Our The IVs serve a very particular purpose, namely to reduce Life Orb recoil, allowing Shaymin-S to survive 11 whiplashes instead of 10. Speaking of items, Life Orb is preferred to maximize damage output, which is especially devastating in conjunction with Seed Flare's effect. However, Leftovers provides passive recovery to increase its Shaymin-S's survivability, especially when used with Growth, when as Shaymin-S will then be powering up itself and the extra power of Life Orb is secondary.</p>

<p>A few other moves can work in the last slot. Hidden Power Ice is one option, KOing Lugia if it has been hit with a Special Defense drop. This also applies to Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O, who could otherwise wall Hidden Power Ice. Growth is an interesting option, to raise Shaymin’s stats.. While the Attack boost would be unhelpful for the most part, a +1 Special Attack allows Shaymin-S to take down Pokemon it would otherwise fail to KO. This becomes more useful in the sun, as Growth will grant a +2 to Special Attack; Shaymin-S can then proceed to decimate weakened teams with its decent three move coverage of Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power.</p>

<p>The easiest way to take down Shaymin-S is with speed faster attackers. Priority easily KOes this frail flier, especially after Stealth Rock damage and Life Orb recoil, as it has no priority of its own to retaliate with. Furthermore, Scizor can Pursuit a fleeing Shaymin-S, ensuring that it will die to Stealth Rock the next time it switchs in. Choice Scarf users are in the same speed boat, especially those that resist Seed Flare and Air Slash, such as Jirachi, Metagross, Heatran, and Dialga. Once again, Wobbuffet deals with these Choice-locked opponents, and can help Shaymin set up Growth with Encore. Ho-Oh handily walls Shaymin-S cold, as it can easily take Air Slash with its massive base Special Defense. Groudon is a helpful partner, KOing most Steel-types with Earthquake and checking Ho-Oh to a decent effect an extent.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid/ Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>A Choice Specs set is a different take on Shaymin-S, affording it immediate power without the recoil of Life Orb. Seed Flare maims any switch-in that does not resist Grass-type moves, and even those that do pack a resistance must be wary of the Special Defense drops; if Shaymin-S outspeeds, the opponent will inevitably fall. Air Slash provides a second STAB move, and is especially great because of its 60% chance to flinch the opponent. Since Choice Specs powers up Shaymin-S's special attacks, less Air Slash uses would be needed than without the boost, and thus there is a higher chance the opponent will flinch to death before it can retaliate. Earth Power provides additional coverage, hitting the Steel-types that resist Grass- and Flying-type moves, such as Dialga and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice rounds out the coverage, KO those that are four times weak the Ice-type moves such as Rayquaza and Garchomp (although one must beware of the ever popular Scarf variant) OHKOing Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp; tread carefully around Choice Scarf variants of the latter, though, as they will outspeed and deal massive damage if not OHKO.<p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an alternative in the last slot, as with it Shaymin-S will be able to beat Skarmory and Scizor. The EVs are distributed to maximize power and Speed, indicative of an offensive set; the last 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense to avoid an even HP stat, providing more switch-ins into Stealth Rock for more switch-ins the Stealth Rock. The choice between a Modest and Timid nature depends on whether one wants the extra power afforded by the former or the extra Speed to get the jump on Darkrai and maximum Speed Arceus formes afforded by the latter. For example, Modest Choice Specs Seed Flare has a 58% chance to KO Blissey, provided the first Seed Flare inflicts the Special Defense drop. Such a feat is not possible with a Timid nature.</p>

<p>Pokemon that can take a Seed Flare are generally the best counters to Shaymin-S. Blissey can stall it out with a combination of Wish and Protect, or cripple it with Thunder Wave, or Toxic, or deal massive damage with Ice Beam. Skarmory can either Whirlwind Shaymin-S or KO it with Brave Bird. Any Pokemon with a powerful STAB move can easily revenge kill Shaymin-S, such as Palkia and Kyogre. Wobbuffet is a good partner to deal with these threats. Ho-Oh is unafraid not afraid of any move Shaymin-S carries, and it can use its Fire- or Flying-type STAB to take out Shaymin-S. Ferrothorn and Bronzong can survive long enough against Seed Flare to 2HKO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Shaymin-S has a few other option it can consider. A Swords Dance set is possible, as Shaymin-S has access to powerful physical moves in Seed Bomb and Return. Unfortunately, the rest of its physical movepool is barren. Hidden Power Rock is a viable alternative to other Hidden Power types to for KOing Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, 2HKOing Rayquaza, and 2HKOing opposing Shaymin-S, but has little added coverage outside of that. A Yache Berry allows Shaymin-S to bluff a Choice set and survive and Ice Beam, but more powerful users of the move will OHKO Shaymin-S regardless of Yache Berry or not. Lastly, our flying deer makes good use of Healing Wish due to its high Speed. This move can give a sweeper another chance to plow through the opposing team, especially after a counter to said sweeper is removed. However, this is generally situational, and may end up being an unneeded move in most matches.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>A couple of Pokemon are especially good at countering Shaymin-S. (Avoid obvious, self-explanatory sentences like this when starting a new paragraph - in this instance, the next sentence serves a perfectly fine opening to this paragraph.) Skarmory comfortably sponges Seed Flare and can retaliate with either Whirlwind or Brave Bird, provided it is not met with a Hidden Power Fire. Bronzong is a similar case, tanking both Seed Flare with ease and unafraid of and Air Slash with ease, and can KO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball. Mixed Rayquaza are good at taking these Pokemon out. Ho-Oh, as long as it has a reasonable amount of health left, laughs at Air Slash and can KO back with either of its STAB moves or even Whirlwind Shaymin-S away. Steel Arceus is another great choice to counter Shaymin-S, as it is bulky enough to take an Earth Power or two and has access to Recover and Roar.</p>

<p>A variety of Pokemon can check Shaymin-S. (what I said earlier) Choice Scarf users such as Dialga, Heatran, Jirachi, and Metagross can use their resistances to switch in and KO, making them great checks too. As mentioned above, Wobbuffet eliminates these Choice Scarf users with ease, and provides Shaymin-S with opportunity to set up. Pokemon with priority, such as Mamoswine and Scizor, bypass Shaymin-S's high Speed and maim it. Scizor must be careful, though, as after a Seed Flare Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, it will fall to Air Slash, its Bullet Punch unable to KO Shaymin-S even after Stealth Rock. Bisharp is another check in this priority category, as it is immune to flinching due to Inner Focus and can 2HKO Shaymin-S with Sucker Punch. Ferrothorn would be a great counter, but it is very susceptible to Air Slash flinches from Air Slash, and Gyro Ball can only 2HKO. Likewise, Lugia and Latias can KO Shaymin-S with Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse, respectively, but must be wary of Seed Flare followed by Air Slash flinches. Stealth Rock poses a small issue to Shaymin-S, so Rapid Spin users can be helpful. Overall, however, the frailty of Shaymin-S makes this problems less pressing.</p>


Issues -

  • No curly apostrophes!
  • Remember, if moves are listed as a slash on the set itself, discuss them in Set Comments itself; don't take them to AC.
  • Don't write sentences pertaining to good teammates for a Pokemon when discussing its counters in the [Checks and Counters] section.


GP 1 / 2
 

Lemonade

WOOPAGGING
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
thanks for the check, I think I got all the curly apostrophes (finally changed word to not make them)
*nods
*nods
 

Zystral

めんどくさい、な~
is a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
[Overview]

<p>Shaymin-S holds the title of the first Pokemon to be unanimously banned from the OU tier. Whether it was existing bias in the form of "60% = 100%", or that it was just that good, Shaymin-S once again finds its home among the Uber Pokemon. Its Excellent base 127 Speed and decent base 120 Special Attack make this flying deer a solid choice offensively, especially because its ability, Serene Grace, abuses the side effects of Seed Flare and Air Slash to great effect. Unfortunately, Shaymin-S is still weak to Stealth Rock, although this matters less than it would for more defensively inclined Pokemon; Shaymin-S's 100 / 75 / 75 defenses are hardly enough to shoulder the powerful moves in the tier. Overall, Shaymin-S is very much the same Pokemon it was in Generation IV, causing rage quits since September 12, 2008.</p>

[SET]
name: Substitute + Leech Seed
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Seed Flare
move 4: Air Slash / Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
item: Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>Shaymin-S can successfully employ the SubSeed strategy due to its extremely high Speed. In fact, it is outsped only by Jumpluff in the sun and Ludicolo in the rain, whereas Prankster Whimsicott has priority SubSeed, though. Fortunately, all three of these are relatively uncommon in Ubers, so the competition is virtually nil. While it may be tempting to use Whimsicott, remember that Shaymin-S has a great base 120 Special Attack, allowing it to take on a more offensive approach. As with all SubSeed strategies, one starts by switching in Shaymin-S to scare off certain whales or behemoths. Then, it can Substitute on the switch and begin to wreak havoc, alternating between Substitute and an attack after Leech Seed. Alternatively, Seed Flare can force switches, as the Special Defense drops cause plenty of fleeing for Shaymin-S to take advantage of. Air Slash fills the last slot to annoy any victim that stays in; its health will be slowly sapped by Air Slash, unable to fight back due to the excessive flinching. Hidden Power Fire and Earth Power are also options to hit Scizor and Dialga, respectively, but the Air Slash's high flinch chance makes it too good to pass up.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The EVs accentuate Shaymin-S's strong points, Special Attack and Speed. There is little use in investing in defenses, as by Uber standards, 100 / 75 / 75 is rather poor. A Timid nature takes advantage of Shaymin-S's unique Speed tier, ensuring it is not outsped by any Arceus forme or Darkrai; a Special Attack-boosting nature is less important because the offensive moves are used only for their secondary effects, not for damage output. Hidden Power Ice can surprise Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp, but as mentioned, Shaymin-S will find it difficult to fit it onto its moveset.</p>

<p>Tons of Pokemon aid Shaymin-S in endlessly annoying its opponents with SubSeed. Wobbuffet is especially notable, as it can prey on the Choice Scarf users that aim to take down speedy Shaymin-S. In addition, the blue blob can use Encore to give Shaymin-S a free opportunity to set up. Deoxys-S is another great partner, as it provides entry hazard support to whittle down the opponents' health from the number of switches the SubSeed strategy forces. Forretress also pairs well in this regard, providing Rapid Spin support and setting up Toxic Spikes to further wear down walls.</p>

<p>Shaymin-S without Hidden Power Fire must be wary of Scizor, as its priority Bullet Punch bypasses Shaymin-S's high Speed. Skarmory too walls Shaymin-S lacking Hidden Power Fire, using Roost to heal off damage and phazing Shaymin-S out. Groudon provides necessary support to take these threats out. Rayquaza sets up on any set lacking Hidden Power Ice, outspeeding and destroying Shaymin-S after boosts from Dragon Dance. Likewise, Dialga will take advantage of any Shaymin-S set without Earth Power. Without a Special Defense drop provided by Seed Flare, both Calm Mind Giratina and Calm Mind Giratina-O have the potential to outstall Shaymin-S.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Seed Flare / Leaf Storm
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Ice
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>When equipped with a Choice Scarf, Shaymin-S becomes a great revenge killer, outspeeding the entire unboosted tier. It can also function as a lead, flinching threats such as Darkrai to death before they can even respond. Seed Flare is the main STAB attack, having the ability to neutralize switch-ins with a Special Defense drop. Air Slash complements this move very well, also receives STAB, and can KO opponents lacking a resistance simply through repeated flinches. Earth Power provides coverage against those that resist Seed Flare and Air Slash, namely, Steel-types such as Dialga, Jirachi, and Metagross. Hidden Power Ice has the most utility on a Choice Scarf set, revenge killing other common Pokemon with a +1 boost such as Garchomp, opposing Shaymin-S, and Dragon Dance Salamence and Rayquaza.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Leaf Storm is a more powerful alternative than Seed Flare right off the bat, and it is viable on a set that switches as often as this. However, it drops Shaymin-S's Special Attack by 2 stages, making additional hits very weak; repeated Seed Flares will most likely increase damage output due to the Special Defense drops it can inflict, too. Another way to augment power is with the nature. Modest is preferred for a revenge killing role, as Choice Scarf Shaymin-S outspeeds even Timid Choice Scarf Palkia. However, a Timid nature is viable if one prefers Shaymin-S to be a lead, as the extra Speed is needed to outpace Darkrai. Either way, it is a great check to standard Rock Polish Groudon, as even at +2, Groudon is outsped and OHKOed by Shaymin-S.</p>

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an option over Hidden Power Ice to incinerate Scizor, but this choice leaves Shaymin-S vulnerable to other Shaymin-S sets. Rapid Spin support is appreciated, as Choice Scarf Shaymin-S will most likely be switching constantly. Likewise, entry hazards support is appreciated to wear down opponents. Shaymin-S must watch out for Pokemon that resist Grass-type moves or have high Special Defense, such as Rayquaza, Dialga, and Latias, as they can come in and set up with ease. Mixed Dialga is thus a good teammate since it is able to deal with Blissey, Latias, Skarmory, and Swords Dance Rayquaza for Shaymin-S.</p>

[SET]
name: Special Sweeper
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice / Growth
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
nature: Timid
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
ivs: 29 HP

[Set Comments]

<p>With excellent Special Attack and Speed stats even by Ubers standards, as well as a movepool that gives it good coverage, Shaymin-S makes a dangerous special sweeper. Seed Flare is what makes Shaymin-S so fearsome, as with Serene Grace there is a high chance of inflicting that Special Defense drop. After that, Shaymin-S can plow through the opponent or continue to assault the switch-in with its powerful attacks. One must be wary of spamming this move, however, as the prevalence of Pressure users means its PP could drop at an alarming rate. Air Slash is a secondary STAB move that has a great flinch chance, decimating switch-ins before they can even retaliate in conjunction with the Special Defense drops which Seed Flare can cause. Earth Power provides coverage on Steel-types such as Dialga, who resist both Seed Flare and Air Slash. However, this is hardly a problem if they have been inflicted with the Special Defense drops. The final slot is given to Hidden Power Fire, which KOes Scizor and Skarmory, both of whom 4x resist Seed Flare.</p>

<p>A few other moves can work in the last slot as well. Hidden Power Ice is one option, KOing Lugia if it has already been hit with a Special Defense drop. This also applies to Latias, Giratina, and Giratina-O, who could otherwise take Hidden Power Ice with ease. On the other hand, Growth forgoes coverage and gives Shaymin-S the ability to boost its Special Attack instead of relying upon Seed Flare's Special Defense drops. While the Attack boost would be unhelpful for the most part, +1 in Special Attack will allow Shaymin-S to take down Pokemon it would otherwise fail to KO. This becomes more useful in the sun, as Growth will grant a +2 boost to Special Attack; Shaymin-S can then proceed to decimate weakened teams with its decent three-move coverage of Seed Flare, Air Slash, and Earth Power.</p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>The EVs are straightforward here, bolstering Special Attack and Speed to their maximum levels. Once again, a Timid nature is preferred over a Special Attack-boosting nature because of Shaymin-S's unique base Speed. The final 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense to ensure the maximal number of switch-ins to Stealth Rock. The IVs serve a very particular purpose, namely to reduce Life Orb recoil, allowing Shaymin-S to survive 11 whiplashes instead of 10. Speaking of items, Life Orb is preferred to maximize damage output, which is especially devastating in conjunction with Seed Flare's effect. However, Leftovers provides passive recovery to increase Shaymin-S's survivability, especially when used with Growth, as Shaymin-S will then be powering up itself and the extra power of Life Orb is secondary.</p>

<p>The easiest way to take down Shaymin-S is with faster attackers. Priority easily KOes this frail flier, especially after Stealth Rock damage and Life Orb recoil, as it has no priority of its own to retaliate with. Furthermore, Scizor can Pursuit a fleeing Shaymin-S, ensuring that it will die to Stealth Rock the next time it switchs in. Choice Scarf users are in the same boat, especially those that resist Seed Flare and Air Slash, such as Jirachi, Metagross, Heatran, and Dialga. Once again, Wobbuffet deals with these Choice-locked opponents, and can help Shaymin set up Growth with Encore. Ho-Oh walls Shaymin-S cold, as it can easily take Air Slash with its massive Special Defense. Groudon is a helpful partner, KOing most Steel-types with Earthquake and checking Ho-Oh to an extent.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Seed Flare
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Earth Power
move 4: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
item: Choice Specs
nature: Timid/ Modest
evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

[Set Comments]

<p>A Choice Specs set is a different take on Shaymin-S, affording it immediate power without the recoil of Life Orb. Seed Flare maims any switch-in that does not resist Grass-type moves, and even those that do pack a resistance must be wary of the Special Defense drops; if Shaymin-S outspeeds, the opponent will inevitably fall. Air Slash provides a second STAB move, and is especially great because of its 60% chance to flinch the opponent. Due to the fact that Choice Specs powers up Shaymin-S's special attacks, less Air Slash uses would be needed than without the boost, and thus there is a higher chance the opponent will be flinched to death before it can retaliate. Earth Power provides additional coverage, hitting the Steel-types that resist Grass- and Flying-type moves, such as Dialga and Jirachi. Hidden Power Ice rounds out the coverage, OHKOing Dragon-types such as Rayquaza and Garchomp; tread carefully around Choice Scarf variants of the latter, though, as they will outspeed and deal massive damage if not OHKOed.<p>

[Additional Comments]

<p>Hidden Power Fire is an alternative in the last slot, as with it Shaymin-S will be able to beat Skarmory and Scizor. The EVs are distributed to maximize power and Speed, indicative of an offensive set; the last 4 EVs are placed in Special Defense to avoid an even HP stat, providing more switch-ins into Stealth Rock. The choice between a Modest and Timid nature depends on whether one wants the extra power afforded by the former or the extra Speed to get the jump on Darkrai and maximum Speed Arceus formes afforded by the latter. For example, Modest Choice Specs Seed Flare has a 58% chance to KO Blissey, provided the first Seed Flare inflicts the Special Defense drop. Such a feat is not possible with a Timid nature.</p>

<p>Pokemon that can take a Seed Flare are generally the best counters to Shaymin-S. Blissey can stall it out with a combination of Wish and Protect, cripple it with Thunder Wave or Toxic, or deal massive damage with Ice Beam. Skarmory can either Whirlwind Shaymin-S or KO it with Brave Bird. Any Pokemon with a powerful STAB move can easily revenge kill Shaymin-S, such as Palkia and Kyogre. Wobbuffet is a good partner to deal with these threats. Ho-Oh is not afraid of any move Shaymin-S carries, and it can use its Fire- or Flying-type STAB to take out Shaymin-S. Ferrothorn and Bronzong can survive long enough against Seed Flare to 2HKO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Shaymin-S has a few other options it can consider. A Swords Dance set is possible, as Shaymin-S has access to powerful physical moves in Seed Bomb and Return. Unfortunately, the rest of its physical movepool is barren. Hidden Power Rock is a viable alternative to other Hidden Power types for KOing Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, 2HKOing Rayquaza, and 2HKOing opposing Shaymin-S, but has little added coverage outside of that. A Yache Berry allows Shaymin-S to bluff a Choice set and survive Ice Beam, but more powerful users of the move will OHKO Shaymin-S regardless. Lastly, our flying deer makes good use of Healing Wish due to its high Speed. This move can give a sweeper another chance to plow through the opposing team, especially after a counter to said sweeper is removed. However, this is generally situational, and may end up being an unneeded move in most matches.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Skarmory comfortably sponges Seed Flare and can retaliate with either Whirlwind or Brave Bird, provided it is not met with a Hidden Power Fire. Bronzong is a similar case, tanking both Seed Flare and Air Slash with ease, and can KO Shaymin-S with Gyro Ball. Ho-Oh, as long as it has a reasonable amount of health left, laughs at Air Slash and can KO back with either of its STAB moves or even Whirlwind Shaymin-S away. Steel Arceus is another great choice to counter Shaymin-S, as it is bulky enough to take an Earth Power or two and has access to Recover and Roar.</p>

<p>Choice Scarf users such as Dialga, Heatran, Jirachi, and Metagross can use their resistances to switch in and KO, making them great checks too. Pokemon with priority, such as Mamoswine and Scizor, bypass Shaymin-S's high Speed and maim it. Scizor must be careful, though, as after a Special Defense drop from Seed Flare, it will fall to Air Slash, because its Bullet Punch is unable to KO Shaymin-S even after Stealth Rock. Bisharp is another check in this priority category, as it is immune to flinching due to Inner Focus and can 2HKO Shaymin-S with Sucker Punch. Ferrothorn would be a great counter, but it is very susceptible to flinches from Air Slash, and Gyro Ball can only 2HKO. Likewise, Lugia and Latias can KO Shaymin-S with Ice Beam and Dragon Pulse, respectively, but must be wary of Seed Flare followed by Air Slash flinches.</p>


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