Balanced 4th gen OU team

B-Zard · Oct 9th, 2011, 6:39:11 AM

Introduction

Hello, B-Zard here again with my second team. This is a balanced team but it is probably more defensive than offensive. I have a few walls but also a few offensive threats. I've been struggling with teams lately on PO, so I decided to make a new one and let it rate to get some advice. I've used a lot of teams but couldn't find a good one. This team is not centered around anything, it is more based on synergy and hopefully getting a late game sweep.

Here are some facts about this team.

One Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock
Two Pokemon affected by Toxic Spikes
One Pokemon absorbing Toxic Spikes
Four Pokemon affected by Spikes
Zero Pursuit weaknesses

There is a small overview for you. Next part is the Team Building!

Team Building Process

I wanted to use a lead that is very reliable of getting op rocks early in the match. Swampert also has one weakness and a few resistances that are handy to my team. It is very bulky and able to roar to rack up some entry hazard damage and able to scout my opponents team early in the match.

Next I wanted to use a fast poke which was able to revenge kill a lot of stuff and has good synergy with my team. It also has strong STAB type moves and has the ability to scout with U-turn.

Thirdly I wanted a poke which could rapid spin my opponents entry hazard away, while laying up its one ones. Forretress fulfilled this role and has good synergy with Swampert and Flygon. It also has something to hit spin blockers and has a decent attack stat.

Next team member is Celebi. I always love to have a grass type member in my team since most of them have a recovery move or are able to do status or leech seed. Celebi is a poke which can have a lot of sets so it is really difficult to predict which moveset it is going to carry.

Next I still needed a strong electric type which fits best in my team. Zapdos fits these things best and with its typing only has two weaknesses. It has a strong spatt base stat so it is able to do a lot of damage most of the time.

Last team member is going to be Infernape so I get my FWG core and someone who is able to break through stall teams. Infernape is a fast member which my team really needed and also has a few key resistances.

This was my version of the team before the current team. Infernape in lead slot, Scizor as SDer to get a late game sweep, Celebi as supporter and staller with Recover and Thunder Wave, Zapdos too with ThunderWave and Roost and Tentacruel was also important since it had Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin.

Team at a Glance

In Depth Analysis

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The Lead

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 200 hp, 232 att, 44 spdef, 32 speed
Adamant Nature (+Att, -Spatt)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake

Well this is my lead (first I had Swampert after that Infernape) and is bulky enough to survive hits with its ev spread it can outspeed opposing Metagross leads and it can survive a Fire Blast from Timid Azelf. Stealth Rock because every Metagross lead carries is, except random set like a anti lead mixed attack. Meteor Mash is a strong STAB move and Bullet Punch is to kill off Focus Sash leads and pokes who are at low health. Earthquake is to hit opposing steel types. I don't have Explosion on this Metagross since it is not a good thing to blow up your only steel type in your team. Lum Berry is to defeat sleep leads and Machamp. Sandshrewz told me there was a Meta ev spread that could survive Azelfs Fire Blast and has more speed than the standard Meta leads: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61279 Reyscarface is more experienced than me and so that's why I chose the ev spread over my original one (248 hp, 252 att, 8 speed) and off course thanks to Sandshrewz who gave me the tip.

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The Revenge Killer

Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 hp, 252 att, 252 speed
Jolly Nature (+Speed, -Spatt)
- Outrage
- Thunderpunch
- U-turn
- Earthquake

This is my choice scarf user. I always love to have one on my team to revenge kill some stuff and preventing my team to be swept by opposing choice scarf users. Flygon is really fast with a choice scarf and has strong STAB type moves. I choice Thunderpunch mainly for Gyarados since it does more damage than Stone Edge, has better accuracy and has more pp. A super-effective Thunderpunch does as much as a neutral Earthquake so the only reason I chose Thunderpunch > Stone Edge was to check Gyarados at + 1. U-turn is to scout with Infernape and to do damage when I switch out.

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The Wall Breaker

Infernape @ Life Orb
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 att, 64 spatt, 192 speed
Naive Nature (+Speed, -Spdef)
- Close Combat
- U-turn
- Mach Punch
- Overheat

This is a really good set and able to break through a lot of teams, it can handle Blissey with CC and Forretress/ Skarmory with Overheat. It has strong STAB type moves and it has priority which means that I can revenge kill frail/ weakend choice scarf and faster users like DD Ttar, Weavile etc. Besides that Ape has U-turn meaning it can scout just like Flygon and do some nice damage on the switch. The moveset is just the Smogon one so I don't need to explain it further. This is the set I first had in my team. After that I chose Infernape as my lead with Stealh Rock > CC since Ape is pretty fast and strong, but the downside was that it mainly was a suicide lead, meaning it would probably die in the beginning of the game. After that I also wanted Ape to function late game, so now it is just the set I had in the first case when Swampert ws my lead.

Lead Set

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The Supporter

Venusaur @ Black Sludge
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 hp, 164 def, 92 speed
Bold Nature (+Def, -Att)
- Grass Knot
- Sludge Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed

This is my supporter since with its part poison type it can absorb Toxic Spikes if necesarry. It is pretty bulky and has less weaknesses than Celebi has which this Venusaur replaces. Grass Knot is for STAB. Personally I like Grass Knot more since I think Venusaur is going to stay in for a few turns stalling out Leech Seed, as the Special Attack-lowering effect can sometimes get you forced out by the Pokemon you're supposed to counter. Sludge Bomb is a second STAB move which hits opposing Grass types super effective, meaning it does more than Hp fire and has 30% chance to Poison, meaning Venusaur can stall better with Leech Seed + Poison damage. Sleep Powder since it might help if one poke of my opponent is asleep, especially if it is a threat to my team.

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The Annoyer

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 192 hp, 64 spdef, 252 speed
Timid Nature (+Speed, -Att)
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Roost
- Thunderbolt

This set can be really annoying when used correctly. I do have Toxic on this set since it lets me stall better with Substitute and Roost. I first had Forretress and Tentacruel which could lay up Toxic Spikes, so where I have Toxic know I had Hp Ice for coverage. Since Zapdos has a naturally high spatt stat you don't need to invest in it if you have a moveset like this one. This moveset works great for stalling out Toxic so the EV spread is pretty bulky. Max Speed with Timid Nature is to outspeed things like Lucario and unboosted Gyarados, which I couldn't with the old spread: 248 hp, 220 spdef, 40 speed. Max Speed lets me speed tie with other pokemon which are positive natured base 100 speed so I can Sub before they attack me if I win the speed tie. There are a few however such as Celebi and Shaymin which carry Hp Fire, meaning they have 30 speed ivs, thus 327 speed, so I can sub before they attack me. This Zapdos set can set up on a lot of things and with its Substitute blocks status like Twave or Toxic from Bliss while hitting back with Toxic. Roost obviously is to regain some health back, which is very important for this set but also since Zapdos is Stealth Rock weak.

Old set

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The Late Gamer Sweeper

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 hp, 252 spatt, 252 speed
Timid Nature (+Speed, -Att)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hp Electric

This basically is my late game sweeper. It just has to wait before faster pokes and bulky are removed or weakend so Suicune can sweep easily. It is naturally bulky meaning if you don't invest in the defenses and hp it still has high stats. Max Spatt and max Speed to provide the late game sweep and combined with the BoltBeam + Water combination it can hit a lot of things for at least neutral damage. Leftovers is there to regain some health so Suicune can survive longer. Surf > Hydro Pump since it has more pp and is more accurate, letting me sweep better.

Well this is my team and help is greatly appreciated

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Threat list

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As you guys can see in the Team Building Process I used some members before I had my current team. You can see them down here with the moveset and the description like I had when I still used them in my team.

Past Members

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Conclusion

Thank you guys for reading my RMT, I hope you enjoyed it. This is another pretty solid team thanks to the ones who rated it, and I look forward making another team; my third one.

2sly4u · Oct 9th, 2011, 4:42:54 PM

Hi B-Zard, nice team

Sorry to say, but I just can't support having all those entry hazards without a Ghost-type. All it takes is one rapid spinner to completely neuter the effectiveness of Forretress, Swampert, and to an extent SubRoost Zapdos, who depends on Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents. Your team has some decent synergy that I don't want to screw up, so rather than suggesting you use Rotom (which is an option), I would change Zapdos to the Specially defensive set. You're already using the correct EVs, so all you really need to do is replace Substitute with Thunder Wave and you're good to go. This may seem redundant with Celebi's Thunder Wave already present, but I assure you, there is a reason.

Next, I would replace Forretress with a Swords Dance Scizor. I've already told you my issues with Forretress; Scizor, on the other hand, gives you a total of three fast, powerful sweepers to complement your solid defensive core. However, Scizor would give you a true late-game cleaning threat you currently lack since Flygon is a bit weak and Infernape is just a tad too slow. When paired with Paralysis spreaders, Scizor can more effectively utilize his secondary STAB to take care of pokemon such as Jirachi. Here's the set:

Scizor@Life Orb
Adamant Nature, 244HP/ 252Att/12 Spe
Swords Dance
Bug Bite
Bullet Punch
Superpower/Roost

Scizor is one of the most dominant pokemon in the game, capable of OHKOing many threats after a singe boost. Bullet Punch is what makes Scizor the beast he is, while Bug Bite is a solid secondary STAB. The last slot depends on how you want Scizor to play. With Superpower, he can remove pokemon who otherwise cause problems, such as Heatran. Roost, on the other hand, lets you heal up, using Scizor's good set of resistances and surprising bulk to nab multiple Swords Dances.

I hope that helps. Good luck!

San_Pellegrino · Oct 9th, 2011, 6:40:58 PM

Hi,

Weavile and Dragonite are both pretty problematic offensive threats, while stall is also going to be a problem with your Zapdos set (which needs to be tweaked a little). Zapdos should be running 192 HP / 64 SpDef / 252 Spe ; Timid nature in order to speed tie with other base 100 positives. Running Toxic on it over HP Ice is advisable since this way you can hit levitating targets that zapdos would otherwise have trouble handling. The coverage loss is not that bad, since you are getting a solid check to stall. A small change you can make is making Forretress Careful and giving it Max HP and Max SpDef, which gives you a stronger special wall now that Zapdos has been relegated. A moveset of Spikes | Toxic Spikes | Rapid Spin | Payback / EQ is fine.

Swampert is a horrid lead in the current DPP metagame, and you have what is probably one of the best mons in general, Infernape, right now on your team. Using Lead Infernape with 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe and Stealth Rock | Close Combat | Overheat | U-turn and Focus Sash gives you a good matchup against most leads, and is very useful as a scouter mid-game too. This leaves Swampert to be replaced with a sturdier wall, and I think Suicune would work very well on this team. Using 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe and a Bold Nature, you will have maximum defenses, while a moveset of Calm Mind | Surf | Ice Beam / Rest | Roar will let you phaze set up sweepers, taking little damage in return, and being a very good late game sweeper or hole puncher in the early stages.

Celebi can use a more efficient moveset in Leech Seed | Energy Ball | HP Fire | Recover, to cover Scizor, Starmie and Machamp, who may otherwise be problems. Good luck!

fatsnorlax · Oct 9th, 2011, 8:19:53 PM

This is a nice team. I have some changes to Celebi to recommend though.

New Celebi

I second San Pellegrino's suggestion of a SubToxicStall Zapdos; keep pert however.

B-Zard · Oct 14th, 2011, 2:04:20 PM

Okay thanks for the rates guys. I will try the suggested Infernape lead over my Swampert lead. I indeed noticed Swampert matches up badly against most common leads, since it can easily be taunted and if they are part flying or have levitate I am forced going for Waterfall. The Infernape lead looks good to me. It has Stealth Rock which is a very important move and it has two strong STAB moves and is able to switch out with U-turn and giving some damage.
I will try out the Scizor 2sly4u suggested, since the set looks cool to me and well to be honest I have been swept by it a few times. I think I go for Roost > Superpower, since with a recovery move I will survive longer and I also think Leftovers is better than Life Orb in this case. Another thing is if I change Forretress to Scizor I don't have a rapid spinner anymore, so I am thinking of adding a Tentacruel to my team who is going to replace Swampert in my FWG core and it is able to rapid spin and lay up toxic spikes just like Forretress. I will just go for this set:

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Liquid Ooze
Calm Nature, 252 hp, 120 def, 136 spdef
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- HP Electric

Hp electric is for Gyara and it worked better than Sludge Bomb.

For Zapdos I will change it to the specially defensive set, since with this set I really lacked speed but at the same time I didn't want to lose bulk, so I really think Thunder Wave is a good option here, so I chose it over Substitute just as 2sly4u suggested.

About Celebi's set I am not sure, since Zapdos already has Twave and Tentacruel can lay up Toxic Spikes, meaning Twave on Celebi might be useless. So I am guessing between the set San_Pellegrino suggested, fatsnorlax his set or my original one.

Are there more suggestions that could be made to make my team better?

Chris P. Bacon · Oct 14th, 2011, 10:35:49 PM

Hold on there buddy, all forms of hazards yet no spin blocker. I second using Scizor as a sweeper, there has been no mention of Metagross yet who could also work (you'd be a bit suspectable to Flygon)

Metagross

@ Life Orb
Jolly
60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
-Agility
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Zen Headbutt / Rock Polish / Thunder Punch

Agility boosts you faster than Flygon (fastest common poke). Once you're set up Meteor Mash will be your main attack and the next moves are coverage. Earthquake is always a solid choice and is non negotiable, Zen Headbutt gives your secondary STAB some use (and hits Rotom hardest), Rock Polish because hey why not, and ThunderPunch is viable but between Celebi and Zapdos water types are covers (unless you REALLY hate Gyara).

Good team, hope this helped, good luck.

B-Zard · Oct 15th, 2011, 10:43:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chris P. Bacon

Hold on there buddy..

Well Scizor or Metagross is probably going to replace Forretress so I only have Stealth Rock as entry hazard. Both Rock Polish and Agility don't seem a good option to me since they both furfill the same roll.

Chris P. Bacon · Oct 15th, 2011, 10:47:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat B-Zard

Well Scizor or Metagross is probably going to replace Forretress so I only have Stealth Rock as entry hazard. Both Rock Polish and Agility don't seem a good option to me since they both furfill the same roll.

You'd be surprised, they work great together (I'm only kidding and was joking in the 1st case).

Have you considered adding a ghost and making this team less offensive, it might make a decent stall team now that i take a second look at it.

B-Zard · Oct 15th, 2011, 11:19:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Chris P. Bacon

You'd be surprised, they work great together (I'm only kidding and was joking in the 1st case).

Have you considered adding a ghost and making this team less offensive, it might make a decent stall team now that i take a second look at it.

Okay didn't know you were joking. But maybe I can try a bulky Rotom as spin blocker over Celebi:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 speed
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

What do you think is a good rapid spin user?

2sly4u · Oct 16th, 2011, 11:50:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat B-Zard

Okay didn't know you were joking. But maybe I can try a bulky Rotom as spin blocker over Celebi:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 speed
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

What do you think is a good rapid spin user?

It really depends where you want to go. Putting in Rotom would make you much more defensive, but ruins your FWG core. Scizor gives you an offensive edge, but opens you up somewhat to stall. Don't replace both Celebi and Forry though, since then you have a Spinblocker but no hazards.

You really need to make up your mind as to your team's style, since Rotom and Scizor are taking you in two totally different directions. I'm partial to stall/balanced, but offense is just as good. Just from looking at your other team, I think Scizor and a more fast-paced approach is better for you.

B-Zard · Oct 16th, 2011, 12:41:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat 2sly4u

It really depends where you want to go. Putting in Rotom would make you much more defensive, but ruins your FWG core. Scizor gives you an offensive edge, but opens you up somewhat to stall. Don't replace both Celebi and Forry though, since then you have a Spinblocker but no hazards.

You really need to make up your mind as to your team's style, since Rotom and Scizor are taking you in two totally different directions. I'm partial to stall/balanced, but offense is just as good. Just from looking at your other team, I think Scizor and a more fast-paced approach is better for you.

Thanks for your advice!

Scizor seems a solid choice to replace Forretress since it is bulky enough to take hits and with its high attack stat can do a lot of damage. I think in the fourth slot I go for Superpower > Roost since this also makes me more offensive and hits stuff like Tran better. I really liked the set you suggested earlier.

Rotom-W would replace Zapdos if I am going to use it since they are both Electric types and Rotom btw is part Ghost so is a good spin blocker. I probably choose Infernape as a lead and Tentacruel as rapid spinner/toxic spiker so I still have my FWG core if I keep Celebi as well, meaning my team would be:
Infernape (lead), Flygon (scarfed), Scizor (SD), Rotom (bulky), Celebi (not sure which moveset) and Tentacruel (rapid spinner).

To me this looks like a solid team but most team members are kinda slow so it really depens on Celebi's moveset. I like Twave on it but a more offensive set like fatsnorlax suggested also fits well into my team. What do you think is a good moveset for Celebi to fit best into my team?

Oh yea another thing. Since I don't have Forretress anymore do you think Tentacruel is a solid choice over it or do you think my team doesn't need a rapid spinner?

kosher ryan · Oct 16th, 2011, 1:37:23 PM

my only problem is celebi, and the reason i say that is i think celebi is an inferior version of shaymin. 7 weaknesses including a 4x to bug is too me unnacceptable, so i would switch him to a shaymin with HP fire. and id turn the flygon either into a scarfed blaziken/alakazam. i can give you a fucking monsterous revenge zam set if you want.

B-Zard · Oct 16th, 2011, 1:51:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat kosher ryan

my only problem is celebi, and the reason i say that is i think celebi is an inferior version of shaymin. 7 weaknesses including a 4x to bug is too me unnacceptable, so i would switch him to a shaymin with HP fire. and id turn the flygon either into a scarfed blaziken/alakazam. i can give you a fucking monsterous revenge zam set if you want.

I know Shaymin's type is better than Celebi's. If you look at my first RMT I also used Shaymin and I am probably going to use Scizor and Rotom as well. So I wanted different team members that fulfill the same roll. Celebi has Twave which Shaymin doesn't have so that's cool. Well I think Flygon fits good into my team since it has good synergy with Scizor, but yeah you can give me the Zam set and try to convince me of using it over Flygon.

2sly4u · Oct 16th, 2011, 8:45:52 PM

Yes, I'm more than aware of Rotom's spinblocking capabilities, but that's my point; you don't need a Spinblocker if your only hazards are Stealth Rock. Unless you need the ghost typing or a Choice Scarf user, Zapdos is probably a better electric-type thanks to his access to instant recovery. If you don't like him as is, try out the much more popular Physically defensive set.

Tentacruel functions much better on dedicated stall teams/ teams with Infernape problems, so I don't recommend him here. The only place he could really go is over Swampert, and then you lose you SR user.

Henrik · Oct 17th, 2011, 1:59:39 PM

Hi there!
Nothing to say against your team, it's really good. Good resistance to most famous types and powerful attacks combined with high defensive pokemons.

Cheers! <333

B-Zard · Oct 19th, 2011, 10:54:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat 2sly4u

Yes, I'm more than aware of Rotom's spinblocking capabilities, but that's my point; you don't need a Spinblocker if your only hazards are Stealth Rock. Unless you need the ghost typing or a Choice Scarf user, Zapdos is probably a better electric-type thanks to his access to instant recovery. If you don't like him as is, try out the much more popular Physically defensive set.

Tentacruel functions much better on dedicated stall teams/ teams with Infernape problems, so I don't recommend him here. The only place he could really go is over Swampert, and then you lose you SR user.

My thought was changing Swampert to an Infernape lead with Stealth Rock since Swampert matches up badly against most common leads. So if Tenta replaces Swampert I don't lose my Stealth Rock user and it gives me the oppurtunity to rapid spin my opponents hazards away. My team is semi-stall so I think Tenta functions pretty good on it since its weaknesses are resisted by my other walls and vice versa.
I think I am going to keep Zapdos since on my first team I also used Rotom so I wanted to have different members on this team.

**sandshrewz** · Oct 21st, 2011, 12:18:52 AM

Hey there! Yes, you said there were 3 weak to ice but I also noticed 3 resists to ice. So don't worry about that. However, sub + 3 attacks mamoswine ( I know it is a weird set) and CroCune is going to sweep the entire team quite easily. Also, in every semi stall, you need a spin blocker. Having to set up hazards over and over again while your opponent spins isn't a really good idea. Sorry, I will have to suggest rotom w as well.

This is the set BKC suggested for my RMT though I didn't use it. But it may be better in your team:

Rotom-w

Timid @ choicescarf
252HP 40SpA 216Spe
HydroPump Thunderbolt Shadowball Trick

this set allow you to outspeed +1 gyara and KO with tbolt. You shouldn't let tenta counter gyara with HPelec since most carry EQ. Flygon is the primary counter to gyara though. HydroPump will keep scarf ttars away if you don't lock yourself into other moves early in the match. Forretress is the most common spinner. Use rotom to block spin and infernape to take the payback and scare it out. Trick is for crippling Crocune which would other wise stroll through your team. This EV set allows it to take a few more hits. Replace zapdos with this Rotom. It should keep mamoswines away as well.

Also, your team does not really benefit from the speed loss in opponent by twave. So don't spam twave all around. Replace twave on celebi with healbell or other move you deem appropriate. Change SD scizor to a CB scizor. Although SD is a very good sweeper, you will find little chance to sweep with it since the team does not facillitate a SD scizor sweep. Cb uturn will give you momentum most of the time but do not over do it. This will cause you to have 3 choice users... But do not worry, there are successful teams with even more choice users. Just use them at the appropriate time.

You don't seem to have a good SD luc counter as well. But I won't suggest anything else as it would cause a huge makeover. What you can do is sac something to closecombat (scizor) then use rotom to KO it with the defence drop. Scizor is the only one which luc will hit with a CC anyway. Scarf scizor can counter luc but generally CB is better.

Since you said your team is semi stall, the team will most likely wear down the opponent then get either choice user to do a sweep. It should also counter most threats well. Semi stall is hard to use since most of the time you may not have the momemtum but double uturn will help solve that and rack up hazard damage to opponent. Cya.

B-Zard · Oct 21st, 2011, 2:03:37 PM

Okay the set sounds cool, but if you look at my first team I already have used Rotom so I wanted another electric type, that's why I chose Zapdos. I am not certain about Scizor; the set is okay, but I don't want to use a CB set again so that's why I chose SD. Maybe SD Luke is better since it is faster and stuff or even Metagross.

What do you think about Celebi, does it need to be more offensive or do you think I should replace Twave since Zapdos already has it and Tentacruel has Toxic Spikes.

**sandshrewz** · Oct 21st, 2011, 10:52:23 PM

Lols. Sometimes sets are too good to pass up. You can always use rotom again... The reason of using rotom is for you to counter threats better if not you can get swept easily. A spin blocker is very important in a semistall team. I assure you that you do not want to keep setting up toxic spikes etc whenever something like forretress comes in can spin. In semistall, it is hard to maximise the use of a set upper. If the team does not facilitate a sweep for the set upper, the set upper will likely be a dead weight on the team and unlikely to sweep. Sometimes, momentum is more important than having a set upper. That is just something you may want to consider though. But if it works ofr you then good then. :) and there is no such thing as a better sweeper. All sweepers are good, just whether it fits in your team and get the job done. Some teams are better off without a sweeper.

About celebi, just keep the defensive set. Going too offensive makes the team less semistallish. Psychic helps deal with machamps though. Actually, there is no need for twave on anything since your team isn't slow to begin with. Apart from scizor, they all have 100 speed and above. If you don't use rotom, replace tentacruel with another bulky water since constant spinning is going to be a headache. Also, try putting flygon in lead position and change infernape's item to LO. Sash lead are one of the lousiest lead bar roserade because sash leads are predictable and they rarely even get a KO before going down. Keeping infernape to use late game is more useful than setting up SR early and letting it faint. About bulky water, empoleon lead can be used. Empoleon leads has been on the rise from my point of view and can set up SR and survive to use mid game. :)

B-Zard · Oct 22nd, 2011, 11:37:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat sandshrewz

Lols. Sometimes sets are too good to pass up. You can always use rotom again... The reason of using rotom is for you to counter threats better if not you can get swept easily. A spin blocker is very important in a semistall team......

Thanks for helping again ;) To me Flygon seems a strange lead but if I replace it with Infernape and change Infernape's item to LO I will just go to the set I had before: Overheat, Mach Punch, CC and U-turn, so meaning I don't have a Stealth Rocker. Do I have to go for the Scarf set Flygon as a lead or another set?

You also suggested Empoleon, I want to give it a try but what do you think is a good item and moveset for a lead Empoleon? If Empoleon raplace Tentacruel I don't have a rapid spinner but do you think my team needs one, if so could you suggest one that fits best in my team?

2sly4u · Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:25:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat B-Zard

Thanks for helping again ;) To me Flygon seems a strange lead but if I replace it with Infernape and change Infernape's item to LO I will just go to the set I had before: Overheat, Mach Punch, CC and U-turn, so meaning I don't have a Stealth Rocker. Do I have to go for the Scarf set Flygon as a lead or another set?

You also suggested Empoleon, I want to give it a try but what do you think is a good item and moveset for a lead Empoleon? If Empoleon raplace Tentacruel I don't have a rapid spinner but do you think my team needs one, if so could you suggest one that fits best in my team?

Just to jump in here: on my most recent RMT, I used a Scarfgon/Scarfape as a scouting core, and Flygon was also in the lead slot. He's done okay, and his U-Turn is great for breaking Sashes as I switch to a better counter to the opposing pokemon. I still would switch him out if my team had room for a true lead, though.

B-Zard · Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:28:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat 2sly4u

Just to jump in here: on my most recent RMT, I used a Scarfgon/Scarfape as a scouting core, and Flygon was also in the lead slot. He's done okay, and his U-Turn is great for breaking Sashes as I switch to a better counter to the opposing pokemon. I still would switch him out if my team had room for a true lead, though.

Okay but it means I don't have a stealth rocker so do you think I should go for Empoleon > Tentacruel so I have a stealth rocker and still keep my FWG core or just the Swampert I had > Tentacruel? The Scouting core looks okay to me, although I am just going to keep LO Ape with U-turn I guess.

**sandshrewz** · Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:51:28 PM

Omg... I had to retype everything thanks to misclick...

about flygon lead, it's just for a quick uturn to your counter against the lead. It also breaks sashes apart from sash from weavile and mamoswine. Yea, use a mix infernape, either physical or specially based mix ape. The addtional fire power is useful.

For empoleon, use the lead set from smogon or specially defensive, with chople berry. It's halfway between anti lead and a SR lead. But it can't absorb status. Your previous swampy could be used if you want. Also, if empo replaces tenta, toxic spikes ruins infernape and celebi. Empo should replace tenta only if you want to keep zapdos. Without a spin blocker, stacking hazards is way harder. If toxic spikes owrries you without tenta, use physcially defensive venusaur over celebi. It has slightly better typing and access to sleep powder and leech seed but does not have consistent recovery. It also fufills celebi's role to check machamp and walls breloom. There isn't really a 'one fit all' for your team. It depends on your playstyle. If you have to switch a lot, spinnig support will be good to reduce hazards damage. If not, spinning may not really be needed. Just to note, spinners are predictable and often lack recovery. Thus, it's not really good to be over dependent on spinners.

erm... This team is getting too similar to your previous one don't you think? If you make another RMT next time, why not try deviating from your FWG core? Nowadays, FWG cores aren't too hard to dismantle. For the sets, i'll edit this post if I can, i'm going to sleep now. Lols. :O

B-Zard · Oct 22nd, 2011, 1:03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat sandshrewz

Omg... I had to retype everything thanks to misclick...

about flygon lead, it's just for a quick uturn to your counter against the lead. It also breaks sashes apart from sash from weavile and mamoswine. Yea, use a mix infernape, either physical or specially based mix ape. The addtional fire power is useful.

For empoleon, use the lead set from smogon or specially defensive, with chople berry. It's halfway between anti lead and a SR lead. But it can't absorb status. Your previous swampy could be used if you want. Also, if empo replaces tenta, toxic spikes ruins infernape and celebi. Empo should replace tenta only if you want to keep zapdos. Without a spin blocker, stacking hazards is way harder. If toxic spikes owrries you without tenta, use physcially defensive venusaur over celebi. It has slightly better typing and access to sleep powder and leech seed but does not have consistent recovery. It also fufills celebi's role to check machamp and walls breloom. There isn't really a 'one fit all' for your team. It depends on your playstyle. If you have to switch a lot, spinnig support will be good to reduce hazards damage. If not, spinning may not really be needed. Just to note, spinners are predictable and often lack recovery. Thus, it's not really good to be over dependent on spinners.

erm... This team is getting too similar to your previous one don't you think? If you make another RMT next time, why not try deviating from your FWG core? Nowadays, FWG cores aren't too hard to dismantle. For the sets, i'll edit this post if I can, i'm going to sleep now. Lols. :O

Okay and what about Roserade > Celebi since it has also has Poison typing and has a form of recovery/ leech seed/ sleep powder/ toxic spikes/ spikes. And maybe Swampert > Tenta since it has only one weakness and Empoleon 3 common type weaknesses and has Roar to rack up entry hazard damage.

**sandshrewz** · Oct 22nd, 2011, 11:24:13 PM

Venusaur is the better option in this case. It is bulkier on the physical side and since celebi is a physical wall, venusaur would replace it better. It's not a bad idea to use UU in OU. UU isn't inferior. So venusaur instead with more physical bulk. Like I said (and many others said), don't stack hazards if you don't have a spin blocker, so no point if roserade is stacking hazards, tenta does better at it. Idk why you removed swampy in the first place, that's why I suggested empoleon. Empoleon has more resistance if i'm not wrong. It can take random outrages and draco meteors.

Oct 9th, 2011, 6:39:11 AM	#1
B-Zard Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 119	Balanced 4th gen OU team Introduction Hello, B-Zard here again with my second team. This is a balanced team but it is probably more defensive than offensive. I have a few walls but also a few offensive threats. I've been struggling with teams lately on PO, so I decided to make a new one and let it rate to get some advice. I've used a lot of teams but couldn't find a good one. This team is not centered around anything, it is more based on synergy and hopefully getting a late game sweep. Here are some facts about this team. One Pokemon weak to Stealth Rock Two Pokemon affected by Toxic Spikes One Pokemon absorbing Toxic Spikes Four Pokemon affected by Spikes Zero Pursuit weaknesses There is a small overview for you. Next part is the Team Building! Team Building Process I wanted to use a lead that is very reliable of getting op rocks early in the match. Swampert also has one weakness and a few resistances that are handy to my team. It is very bulky and able to roar to rack up some entry hazard damage and able to scout my opponents team early in the match. Next I wanted to use a fast poke which was able to revenge kill a lot of stuff and has good synergy with my team. It also has strong STAB type moves and has the ability to scout with U-turn. Thirdly I wanted a poke which could rapid spin my opponents entry hazard away, while laying up its one ones. Forretress fulfilled this role and has good synergy with Swampert and Flygon. It also has something to hit spin blockers and has a decent attack stat. Next team member is Celebi. I always love to have a grass type member in my team since most of them have a recovery move or are able to do status or leech seed. Celebi is a poke which can have a lot of sets so it is really difficult to predict which moveset it is going to carry. Next I still needed a strong electric type which fits best in my team. Zapdos fits these things best and with its typing only has two weaknesses. It has a strong spatt base stat so it is able to do a lot of damage most of the time. Last team member is going to be Infernape so I get my FWG core and someone who is able to break through stall teams. Infernape is a fast member which my team really needed and also has a few key resistances. This was my version of the team before the current team. Infernape in lead slot, Scizor as SDer to get a late game sweep, Celebi as supporter and staller with Recover and Thunder Wave, Zapdos too with ThunderWave and Roost and Tentacruel was also important since it had Toxic Spikes and Rapid Spin. Team at a Glance In Depth Analysis ************************************************ The Lead Metagross @ Lum Berry Ability: Clear Body EVs: 200 hp, 232 att, 44 spdef, 32 speed Adamant Nature (+Att, -Spatt) - Stealth Rock - Meteor Mash - Bullet Punch - Earthquake Well this is my lead (first I had Swampert after that Infernape) and is bulky enough to survive hits with its ev spread it can outspeed opposing Metagross leads and it can survive a Fire Blast from Timid Azelf. Stealth Rock because every Metagross lead carries is, except random set like a anti lead mixed attack. Meteor Mash is a strong STAB move and Bullet Punch is to kill off Focus Sash leads and pokes who are at low health. Earthquake is to hit opposing steel types. I don't have Explosion on this Metagross since it is not a good thing to blow up your only steel type in your team. Lum Berry is to defeat sleep leads and Machamp. Sandshrewz told me there was a Meta ev spread that could survive Azelfs Fire Blast and has more speed than the standard Meta leads: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61279 Reyscarface is more experienced than me and so that's why I chose the ev spread over my original one (248 hp, 252 att, 8 speed) and off course thanks to Sandshrewz who gave me the tip. ********************************************* The Revenge Killer Flygon @ Choice Scarf Ability: Levitate EVs: 4 hp, 252 att, 252 speed Jolly Nature (+Speed, -Spatt) - Outrage - Thunderpunch - U-turn - Earthquake This is my choice scarf user. I always love to have one on my team to revenge kill some stuff and preventing my team to be swept by opposing choice scarf users. Flygon is really fast with a choice scarf and has strong STAB type moves. I choice Thunderpunch mainly for Gyarados since it does more damage than Stone Edge, has better accuracy and has more pp. A super-effective Thunderpunch does as much as a neutral Earthquake so the only reason I chose Thunderpunch > Stone Edge was to check Gyarados at + 1. U-turn is to scout with Infernape and to do damage when I switch out. ********************************************** The Wall Breaker** Infernape @ Life Orb Ability: Blaze EVs: 252 att, 64 spatt, 192 speed Naive Nature (+Speed, -Spdef) - Close Combat - U-turn - Mach Punch - Overheat This is a really good set and able to break through a lot of teams, it can handle Blissey with CC and Forretress/ Skarmory with Overheat. It has strong STAB type moves and it has priority which means that I can revenge kill frail/ weakend choice scarf and faster users like DD Ttar, Weavile etc. Besides that Ape has U-turn meaning it can scout just like Flygon and do some nice damage on the switch. The moveset is just the Smogon one so I don't need to explain it further. This is the set I first had in my team. After that I chose Infernape as my lead with Stealh Rock > CC since Ape is pretty fast and strong, but the downside was that it mainly was a suicide lead, meaning it would probably die in the beginning of the game. After that I also wanted Ape to function late game, so now it is just the set I had in the first case when Swampert ws my lead. Lead Set Infernape @ Focus Sash Ability: Blaze Evs: 252 att, 64 spatt, 192 speed Naive Nature (+Speed, -Spdef) - Stealth Rock - Close Combat - U-turn/ Priority - Overheat Well this is my lead with strong STAB type moves. It is able to lay up rocks pretty early in the match barring if there are faster leads such as Azelf and Aerodactyl with Taunt. U-turn means it can scout just like Flygon, but priority like Fake Out or Mach Punch/ Vacuum Wave might also be a good option to defeat other focus sashers. ************************************************ The Supporter Venusaur @ Black Sludge Ability: Overgrow EVs: 252 hp, 164 def, 92 speed Bold Nature (+Def, -Att) - Grass Knot - Sludge Bomb - Sleep Powder - Leech Seed This is my supporter since with its part poison type it can absorb Toxic Spikes if necesarry. It is pretty bulky and has less weaknesses than Celebi has which this Venusaur replaces. Grass Knot is for STAB. Personally I like Grass Knot more since I think Venusaur is going to stay in for a few turns stalling out Leech Seed, as the Special Attack-lowering effect can sometimes get you forced out by the Pokemon you're supposed to counter. Sludge Bomb is a second STAB move which hits opposing Grass types super effective, meaning it does more than Hp fire and has 30% chance to Poison, meaning Venusaur can stall better with Leech Seed + Poison damage. Sleep Powder since it might help if one poke of my opponent is asleep, especially if it is a threat to my team. ********************************************** The Annoyer Zapdos @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 192 hp, 64 spdef, 252 speed Timid Nature (+Speed, -Att) - Substitute - Toxic - Roost - Thunderbolt This set can be really annoying when used correctly. I do have Toxic on this set since it lets me stall better with Substitute and Roost.** I first had Forretress and Tentacruel which could lay up Toxic Spikes, so where I have Toxic know I had Hp Ice for coverage. Since Zapdos has a naturally high spatt stat you don't need to invest in it if you have a moveset like this one. This moveset works great for stalling out Toxic so the EV spread is pretty bulky. Max Speed with Timid Nature is to outspeed things like Lucario and unboosted Gyarados, which I couldn't with the old spread: 248 hp, 220 spdef, 40 speed. Max Speed lets me speed tie with other pokemon which are positive natured base 100 speed so I can Sub before they attack me if I win the speed tie. There are a few however such as Celebi and Shaymin which carry Hp Fire, meaning they have 30 speed ivs, thus 327 speed, so I can sub before they attack me. This Zapdos set can set up on a lot of things and with its Substitute blocks status like Twave or Toxic from Bliss while hitting back with Toxic. Roost obviously is to regain some health back, which is very important for this set but also since Zapdos is Stealth Rock weak. Old set Zapdos @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 248 hp, 220 spdef, 40 speed Calm Nature (+Spdef, -Att) - Thunder Wave - Roost - Thunderbolt - Hp Ice This set can be really annoying when used correctly. I don't have Toxic on this set since I already have Twave to slow things like sweepers down. It also has 25% chance to fully paralyze my opponent. Roost + Thunder Wave is for stall and Thunderbolt + Hp Ice is to hit most things for at least neutral damage. Since Zapdos has a naturally high spatt stat you don't need to invest in it if you have a moveset like this one. I am guessing of using another set: Sub + Roost + Toxic which you can see if you read further ************************************************ The Late Gamer Sweeper Suicune @ Leftovers Ability: Pressure EVs: 4 hp, 252 spatt, 252 speed Timid Nature (+Speed, -Att) - Calm Mind - Surf - Ice Beam - Hp Electric This basically is my late game sweeper. It just has to wait before faster pokes and bulky are removed or weakend so Suicune can sweep easily. It is naturally bulky meaning if you don't invest in the defenses and hp it still has high stats. Max Spatt and max Speed to provide the late game sweep and combined with the BoltBeam + Water combination it can hit a lot of things for at least neutral damage. Leftovers is there to regain some health so Suicune can survive longer. Surf > Hydro Pump since it has more pp and is more accurate, letting me sweep better. Well this is my team and help is greatly appreciated ************************************************ Threat list Agility with Meteor Mash / Earthquake / Zen Headbutt: My own Metagross can take an EQ and EQ back but nothing else really. After an Agility it probably outspeeds my Flygon so he MM before I EQ. Infernape dies to an EQ (although I still can Mach Punch), Venusaur to Zen Headbutt. Zapdos can Tbolt it and Suicune Surf it. So to take down this threat I have to sac someone al least since there isn't an attack that can ohko Agility Metagross at +2. Good thing is that this set isn't very common I think since most carry Ice Punch or Thunderpunch > Zen Headbutt. If it has Thunderpunch my Zapdos can take it down with ease. DD Kingdra's with ChestoRest: Yes this sucks since it can get a few DDs since it can set up on almost every team member. Flygon can outspeed it at +1 so I have to rely on that. I can off course lure it into Outrage so Metagross can EQ but unfortunately that doesn't do much. I can Leech Seed it with Venusaur and use Sleep Powder so it uses its Chesto Berry, but this isn't a very reliable method since Sleep Powder might miss due to hax and if I Sleep Powder it gets a free DD. Luckily I can beat the SubDD set since I can just break its Sub with almost every attack of every team member (no status moves off course). ************************************************** As you guys can see in the Team Building Process I used some members before I had my current team. You can see them down here with the moveset and the description like I had when I still used them in my team. Past Members Swampert @ Leftovers Ability: Torrent EVs: 252 hp, 156 def, 96 spdef Impish Nature (+Def, -Spatt) - Stealth Rock - Roar - Waterfall - Earthquake Well, this is my reliable lead and has a good typing. It works good against most leads and most of the time is able to get rocks up. Only problems are fast taunt users and probably Heatran with HP Grass and Machamp. This is a different EV spread than the Smogon one. I chose it because with this set it gets max. hp, 280 def and 240 spdef which to me seemed nice numbers. I don't have a Relaxed nature, basically because I don't want to be outsped by lead Machamps and eating a DynamicPunch. Thats why I chose for an Impish Nature. Waterfall is because it gets STAB and Torrent when 1/3 hp or below. Scizor @ Leftovers Ability: Technician EVs: 240 hp, 252 att, 12 speed Adamant Nature (+Att, -Spatt) - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Bug Bite - Superpower SD Scizor is capable of doing loads of damage to my opponents team if it can get up a SD. Thats why I am using Thunder Wave users in my team, since Scizor doesn't have a huge base speed stat. BP and Bug Bite are STABed and boosted by Technician. I chose Superpower > Roost in the last slot since my team kinda is bulky and bulky teams definitely need a good sweeper so Superpower is there to hit things hard. I have 240 hp ev to give it some bulk since I think with max speed it just isn't capable of outspeeding lots of things so I just put them into hp. 12 speed is to outspeed opposing Scizor users I guess. Celebi @ Leftovers Ability: Natural Cure EVs: 252 hp, 212 def, 44 speed Bold Nature (+Def, -Att) - Thunder Wave - Grass Knot - Hp Fire/Psychic - Recover/Leech Seed This is my team supporter. Thunder Wave is to cripple stuff and slow it down since most of my team members aren't that fast. Grass Knot is just for STAB and Hp Fire for Scizor. I could also go for Psychic for Machamp. Recover is to regain some health, whereas Leech Seed can help other team members to get some health. Celebi has a lot of weaknesses but I think it has good synergy with my other team members. As for the ev spread it gives me max hp and 246 speed with hp fire to outspeed 245 speed pokes and below which are common. Forretress @ Leftovers Ability: Sturdy EVs: 252 hp, 144 def, 112 att Impish Nature (+Def, -Spatt) - Toxic Spikes/ Spikes - Rapid Spin - Payback - Earthquake/ Spikes This is my rapid spinner and entry hazard user. It only has one weakness and a lot of resistances. It is able to lay up either Toxic Spikes or Spikes and it able to hit ghost types with Payback and fire type users with EQ. I don't know if I should go for Toxic Spikes, Spikes or both. I don't have a spin blocker so both maybe isn't a good idea. Toxic Spikes gives poison to a poke who switches in (not immune to it) but it means that if a poison type (without levitate) switches in my Toxic Spikes are wasted. Tentacruel @ Black Sludge Ability: Liquid Ooze EVs: 252 hp, 120 def, 136 speed Calm Nature (+Spdef, -Att) - Toxic Spikes - Rapid Spin - Surf - Hp Electric This completes my FWG core and is able to absorb Toxic Spikes and laying up its own ones. Since my team is defensively based I probably am going to switch a lot to stall out Toxic if I layed up my Toxic Spikes, so I needed a rapid spin user so if I switch I don't take entry hazard damage. Zapdos is an important team member since it has roost to stall and strong moves to hit most opponents for at least neutral damage, so rapid spinning entry hazards means Zapdos doesn't have to take 25% damage of Stealth Rock every time it switches in. Surf is there for STAB and every Tentacruel carries it and Hp Electric is mainly for Gyarados since it can cause problems to my team. ************************************************ Conclusion Thank you guys for reading my RMT, I hope you enjoyed it. This is another pretty solid team thanks to the ones who rated it, and I look forward making another team; my third one. __________________ I use legal hacks. HG FC: 5200 3391 7789 RMT's \| Bring tha HEAT! \| Balanced team \| First RMT** Last edited by B-Zard; Oct 27th, 2011 at 9:21:37 AM.

Oct 9th, 2011, 6:40:58 PM	#3
San_Pellegrino the eternal dreamer Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,600	Hi, Weavile and Dragonite are both pretty problematic offensive threats, while stall is also going to be a problem with your Zapdos set (which needs to be tweaked a little). Zapdos should be running 192 HP / 64 SpDef / 252 Spe ; Timid nature in order to speed tie with other base 100 positives. Running Toxic on it over HP Ice is advisable since this way you can hit levitating targets that zapdos would otherwise have trouble handling. The coverage loss is not that bad, since you are getting a solid check to stall. A small change you can make is making Forretress Careful and giving it Max HP and Max SpDef, which gives you a stronger special wall now that Zapdos has been relegated. A moveset of Spikes \| Toxic Spikes \| Rapid Spin \| Payback / EQ is fine. Swampert is a horrid lead in the current DPP metagame, and you have what is probably one of the best mons in general, Infernape, right now on your team. Using Lead Infernape with 64 Atk / 252 SpA / 192 Spe and Stealth Rock \| Close Combat \| Overheat \| U-turn and Focus Sash gives you a good matchup against most leads, and is very useful as a scouter mid-game too. This leaves Swampert to be replaced with a sturdier wall, and I think Suicune would work very well on this team. Using 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe and a Bold Nature, you will have maximum defenses, while a moveset of Calm Mind \| Surf \| Ice Beam / Rest \| Roar will let you phaze set up sweepers, taking little damage in return, and being a very good late game sweeper or hole puncher in the early stages. Celebi can use a more efficient moveset in Leech Seed \| Energy Ball \| HP Fire \| Recover, to cover Scizor, Starmie and Machamp, who may otherwise be problems. Good luck! __________________

Oct 9th, 2011, 8:19:53 PM	#4
fatsnorlax Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 436 Ravnica	This is a nice team. I have some changes to Celebi to recommend though. New Celebi Celbi @ Life Orb Ability: Natural Cure Nature: Modest EVs: 240hp/236Satk/40spd -Leaf Storm -Recover -Thunder Wave -Hidden Power[Fire]/Earth Power/Psychic/U-Turn Basically gives you a mixture of power and bulk that comes with an instant recovery move... Thunder Wave is there to neuter sweepers. I second San Pellegrino's suggestion of a SubToxicStall Zapdos; keep pert however. __________________ In due time, you will realize that this is the single most brilliant sig you have or ever will read.

Oct 14th, 2011, 2:04:20 PM	#5
B-Zard Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 119	Okay thanks for the rates guys. I will try the suggested Infernape lead over my Swampert lead. I indeed noticed Swampert matches up badly against most common leads, since it can easily be taunted and if they are part flying or have levitate I am forced going for Waterfall. The Infernape lead looks good to me. It has Stealth Rock which is a very important move and it has two strong STAB moves and is able to switch out with U-turn and giving some damage. I will try out the Scizor 2sly4u suggested, since the set looks cool to me and well to be honest I have been swept by it a few times. I think I go for Roost > Superpower, since with a recovery move I will survive longer and I also think Leftovers is better than Life Orb in this case. Another thing is if I change Forretress to Scizor I don't have a rapid spinner anymore, so I am thinking of adding a Tentacruel to my team who is going to replace Swampert in my FWG core and it is able to rapid spin and lay up toxic spikes just like Forretress. I will just go for this set: Tentacruel @ Black Sludge Ability: Liquid Ooze Calm Nature, 252 hp, 120 def, 136 spdef - Toxic Spikes - Rapid Spin - Surf - HP Electric Hp electric is for Gyara and it worked better than Sludge Bomb. For Zapdos I will change it to the specially defensive set, since with this set I really lacked speed but at the same time I didn't want to lose bulk, so I really think Thunder Wave is a good option here, so I chose it over Substitute just as 2sly4u suggested. About Celebi's set I am not sure, since Zapdos already has Twave and Tentacruel can lay up Toxic Spikes, meaning Twave on Celebi might be useless. So I am guessing between the set San_Pellegrino suggested, fatsnorlax his set or my original one. Are there more suggestions that could be made to make my team better? __________________ I use legal hacks. HG FC: 5200 3391 7789 RMT's \| Bring tha HEAT! \| Balanced team \| First RMT

Oct 14th, 2011, 10:35:49 PM	#6
Chris P. Bacon Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 88	Hold on there buddy, all forms of hazards yet no spin blocker. I second using Scizor as a sweeper, there has been no mention of Metagross yet who could also work (you'd be a bit suspectable to Flygon) Metagross @ Life Orb Jolly 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe -Agility -Meteor Mash -Earthquake -Zen Headbutt / Rock Polish / Thunder Punch Agility boosts you faster than Flygon (fastest common poke). Once you're set up Meteor Mash will be your main attack and the next moves are coverage. Earthquake is always a solid choice and is non negotiable, Zen Headbutt gives your secondary STAB some use (and hits Rotom hardest), Rock Polish because hey why not, and ThunderPunch is viable but between Celebi and Zapdos water types are covers (unless you REALLY hate Gyara). Good team, hope this helped, good luck. __________________ It's also pretty interesting watching jrrrrrrr battle as I am fairly certain that the mechanics of Pokémon Online are totally different for him than they are for anyone else. 6/8 hydro pumps missing, fully paralyzed 6 turns in a row -Gungnir85 Last edited by Chris P. Bacon; Oct 14th, 2011 at 10:37:27 PM. Reason: Skarmory

Oct 9th, 2011, 4:42:54 PM	#2
2sly4u Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 535 I'm comfy and easy to wear.	Hi B-Zard, nice team Sorry to say, but I just can't support having all those entry hazards without a Ghost-type. All it takes is one rapid spinner to completely neuter the effectiveness of Forretress, Swampert, and to an extent SubRoost Zapdos, who depends on Toxic Spikes to wear down opponents. Your team has some decent synergy that I don't want to screw up, so rather than suggesting you use Rotom (which is an option), I would change Zapdos to the Specially defensive set. You're already using the correct EVs, so all you really need to do is replace Substitute with Thunder Wave and you're good to go. This may seem redundant with Celebi's Thunder Wave already present, but I assure you, there is a reason. Next, I would replace Forretress with a Swords Dance Scizor. I've already told you my issues with Forretress; Scizor, on the other hand, gives you a total of three fast, powerful sweepers to complement your solid defensive core. However, Scizor would give you a true late-game cleaning threat you currently lack since Flygon is a bit weak and Infernape is just a tad too slow. When paired with Paralysis spreaders, Scizor can more effectively utilize his secondary STAB to take care of pokemon such as Jirachi. Here's the set: Scizor@Life Orb Adamant Nature, 244HP/ 252Att/12 Spe Swords Dance Bug Bite Bullet Punch Superpower/Roost Scizor is one of the most dominant pokemon in the game, capable of OHKOing many threats after a singe boost. Bullet Punch is what makes Scizor the beast he is, while Bug Bite is a solid secondary STAB. The last slot depends on how you want Scizor to play. With Superpower, he can remove pokemon who otherwise cause problems, such as Heatran. Roost, on the other hand, lets you heal up, using Scizor's good set of resistances and surprising bulk to nab multiple Swords Dances. I hope that helps. Good luck!

Oct 16th, 2011, 1:37:23 PM	#12
kosher ryan Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 41 jacksonville	my only problem is celebi, and the reason i say that is i think celebi is an inferior version of shaymin. 7 weaknesses including a 4x to bug is too me unnacceptable, so i would switch him to a shaymin with HP fire. and id turn the flygon either into a scarfed blaziken/alakazam. i can give you a fucking monsterous revenge zam set if you want.

Oct 16th, 2011, 8:45:52 PM	#14
2sly4u Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 535 I'm comfy and easy to wear.	Yes, I'm more than aware of Rotom's spinblocking capabilities, but that's my point; you don't need a Spinblocker if your only hazards are Stealth Rock. Unless you need the ghost typing or a Choice Scarf user, Zapdos is probably a better electric-type thanks to his access to instant recovery. If you don't like him as is, try out the much more popular Physically defensive set. Tentacruel functions much better on dedicated stall teams/ teams with Infernape problems, so I don't recommend him here. The only place he could really go is over Swampert, and then you lose you SR user.

Oct 17th, 2011, 1:59:39 PM	#15
Henrik Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 13 Norway	Hi there! Nothing to say against your team, it's really good. Good resistance to most famous types and powerful attacks combined with high defensive pokemons. Cheers! <333 __________________ Pokemon WFC Battler Diamond: 0000 0000 0000 (resetting save file) Platinum: 1462 9634 3307

Oct 21st, 2011, 12:18:52 AM	#17
sandshrewz 南Potest 华Qui 人Vult Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,443 Live like there's no tomorrow Mentor	Hey there! Yes, you said there were 3 weak to ice but I also noticed 3 resists to ice. So don't worry about that. However, sub + 3 attacks mamoswine ( I know it is a weird set) and CroCune is going to sweep the entire team quite easily. Also, in every semi stall, you need a spin blocker. Having to set up hazards over and over again while your opponent spins isn't a really good idea. Sorry, I will have to suggest rotom w as well. This is the set BKC suggested for my RMT though I didn't use it. But it may be better in your team: Rotom-w Timid @ choicescarf 252HP 40SpA 216Spe HydroPump Thunderbolt Shadowball Trick this set allow you to outspeed +1 gyara and KO with tbolt. You shouldn't let tenta counter gyara with HPelec since most carry EQ. Flygon is the primary counter to gyara though. HydroPump will keep scarf ttars away if you don't lock yourself into other moves early in the match. Forretress is the most common spinner. Use rotom to block spin and infernape to take the payback and scare it out. Trick is for crippling Crocune which would other wise stroll through your team. This EV set allows it to take a few more hits. Replace zapdos with this Rotom. It should keep mamoswines away as well. Also, your team does not really benefit from the speed loss in opponent by twave. So don't spam twave all around. Replace twave on celebi with healbell or other move you deem appropriate. Change SD scizor to a CB scizor. Although SD is a very good sweeper, you will find little chance to sweep with it since the team does not facillitate a SD scizor sweep. Cb uturn will give you momentum most of the time but do not over do it. This will cause you to have 3 choice users... But do not worry, there are successful teams with even more choice users. Just use them at the appropriate time. You don't seem to have a good SD luc counter as well. But I won't suggest anything else as it would cause a huge makeover. What you can do is sac something to closecombat (scizor) then use rotom to KO it with the defence drop. Scizor is the only one which luc will hit with a CC anyway. Scarf scizor can counter luc but generally CB is better. Since you said your team is semi stall, the team will most likely wear down the opponent then get either choice user to do a sweep. It should also counter most threats well. Semi stall is hard to use since most of the time you may not have the momemtum but double uturn will help solve that and rack up hazard damage to opponent. Cya.

Oct 21st, 2011, 2:03:37 PM	#18
B-Zard Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 119	Okay the set sounds cool, but if you look at my first team I already have used Rotom so I wanted another electric type, that's why I chose Zapdos. I am not certain about Scizor; the set is okay, but I don't want to use a CB set again so that's why I chose SD. Maybe SD Luke is better since it is faster and stuff or even Metagross. What do you think about Celebi, does it need to be more offensive or do you think I should replace Twave since Zapdos already has it and Tentacruel has Toxic Spikes. __________________ I use legal hacks. HG FC: 5200 3391 7789 RMT's \| Bring tha HEAT! \| Balanced team \| First RMT

Oct 21st, 2011, 10:52:23 PM	#19
sandshrewz 南Potest 华Qui 人Vult Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,443 Live like there's no tomorrow Mentor	Lols. Sometimes sets are too good to pass up. You can always use rotom again... The reason of using rotom is for you to counter threats better if not you can get swept easily. A spin blocker is very important in a semistall team. I assure you that you do not want to keep setting up toxic spikes etc whenever something like forretress comes in can spin. In semistall, it is hard to maximise the use of a set upper. If the team does not facilitate a sweep for the set upper, the set upper will likely be a dead weight on the team and unlikely to sweep. Sometimes, momentum is more important than having a set upper. That is just something you may want to consider though. But if it works ofr you then good then. :) and there is no such thing as a better sweeper. All sweepers are good, just whether it fits in your team and get the job done. Some teams are better off without a sweeper. About celebi, just keep the defensive set. Going too offensive makes the team less semistallish. Psychic helps deal with machamps though. Actually, there is no need for twave on anything since your team isn't slow to begin with. Apart from scizor, they all have 100 speed and above. If you don't use rotom, replace tentacruel with another bulky water since constant spinning is going to be a headache. Also, try putting flygon in lead position and change infernape's item to LO. Sash lead are one of the lousiest lead bar roserade because sash leads are predictable and they rarely even get a KO before going down. Keeping infernape to use late game is more useful than setting up SR early and letting it faint. About bulky water, empoleon lead can be used. Empoleon leads has been on the rise from my point of view and can set up SR and survive to use mid game. :)

Oct 22nd, 2011, 12:51:28 PM	#23
sandshrewz 南Potest 华Qui 人Vult Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,443 Live like there's no tomorrow Mentor	Omg... I had to retype everything thanks to misclick... about flygon lead, it's just for a quick uturn to your counter against the lead. It also breaks sashes apart from sash from weavile and mamoswine. Yea, use a mix infernape, either physical or specially based mix ape. The addtional fire power is useful. For empoleon, use the lead set from smogon or specially defensive, with chople berry. It's halfway between anti lead and a SR lead. But it can't absorb status. Your previous swampy could be used if you want. Also, if empo replaces tenta, toxic spikes ruins infernape and celebi. Empo should replace tenta only if you want to keep zapdos. Without a spin blocker, stacking hazards is way harder. If toxic spikes owrries you without tenta, use physcially defensive venusaur over celebi. It has slightly better typing and access to sleep powder and leech seed but does not have consistent recovery. It also fufills celebi's role to check machamp and walls breloom. There isn't really a 'one fit all' for your team. It depends on your playstyle. If you have to switch a lot, spinnig support will be good to reduce hazards damage. If not, spinning may not really be needed. Just to note, spinners are predictable and often lack recovery. Thus, it's not really good to be over dependent on spinners. erm... This team is getting too similar to your previous one don't you think? If you make another RMT next time, why not try deviating from your FWG core? Nowadays, FWG cores aren't too hard to dismantle. For the sets, i'll edit this post if I can, i'm going to sleep now. Lols. :O

Oct 22nd, 2011, 11:24:13 PM	#25
sandshrewz 南Potest 华Qui 人Vult Moderator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,443 Live like there's no tomorrow Mentor	Venusaur is the better option in this case. It is bulkier on the physical side and since celebi is a physical wall, venusaur would replace it better. It's not a bad idea to use UU in OU. UU isn't inferior. So venusaur instead with more physical bulk. Like I said (and many others said), don't stack hazards if you don't have a spin blocker, so no point if roserade is stacking hazards, tenta does better at it. Idk why you removed swampy in the first place, that's why I suggested empoleon. Empoleon has more resistance if i'm not wrong. It can take random outrages and draco meteors.