Chandelure [GP 0/2]

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http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/chandelure

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[Overview]

-Ridiculously powerful, usually OHKOes / 2HKOes Pokemon who don't resist its STABs.
-Decent offensive typing and the ability to spinblock.
-Mediocre bulk with 60/90/90 defenses and SR weakness.
-Kinda slow, with base 80 speed.
-SubSplit runs circles around its counters when Toxic Spikes are in play.
-Ghost Chandelier, nuff said.

[SET]
name: SubSplit
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Pain Split
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Shadow Ball
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-Chandelure's strongest set, very difficult to straight up counter
-Sub PainSplit runs circles around dedicated Special walls like Chansey. Throw in Toxic Spikes and you have yourself a fracas (the ability to beat almost every special wall 1 on 1)
-Fire Blast is stupidly strong, and crushes pretty much anything in the tier not named Snorlax or Pokemon who are immune to fire moves.
-Shadow Ball covers almost every single fire resist, barring Thick Fat users and Porygon 2. Despite the lowered bp, its still reliable and it has more accuracy.
-Substitute specifically allows you to scout your switch and enter phase 1 of the sub split strat. Useful for dealing with cores that have no problem checking choiced Chandelure.
-Pain Split gives Chandelure semi reliable healing and it ruins most special walls and due to LO recoil and Chandelure's naturally low health, its siphoning quite a bit of health from its targets.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-Almost requires Toxic Spikes support to get the best use out of this set. Roserade is the quite possibly the best partner to Chandelure because she can counter most of Chandelure's basic checks and use them as set up fodder.
-Stealth Rock and Spikes are much appreciated. Roserade (again) gets the special nod because on top of having access to Toxic Spikes, she can even use Spikes which makes Chandelure even harder to counter.
-A Rapid Spinner is recommended because of Chandelure's Stealth Rock weakness, LO recoil and HP lost from substitute. Blastoise is the arguably the best rapid spinner in the tier, can check most of Chandelure's counters and can roar (useful when hazards are in play)
-Porygon 2 and Snorlax are still problematic, especially when paired with a cleric or Toxic Spikes absorber because they hard counter Chandelure.
-Machamp is an ideal partner because it has no problem countering Snorlax and P2, on top of being stupidly hard to counter itself. It even provides Chandelure with a Rock Resist.

name: Choice Specs
move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Energy Ball / Hidden Power Fighting
move 4: Flamethrower
item: Choice Specs
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-Mindlessly blows everything up with a choice specs, absolutely everything will get mauled.
-More coverage than the previous set which will let it get by its checks in one shot. (Energy Ball will 2HKO all bulky water types, bulky rock types etc)
-HP Fighting specifically is just strong enough to break through Snorlax that don't heavily invest in SpD. Porygon 2 that don't invest in SpD are cleanly OHKOed

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-Needs spin support since its going to be switching in and out a lot
-Entry Hazard support is recommended
-Sun supports allows Chandelure to flat out 2HKO specially defensive titans like Snorlax and Chansey.
-Wrecked by by Snorlax & Porygon 2 so you need them out of the way in order to clean house. Same partners apply as before


name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Fire Blast
move 2: Shadow Ball
move 3: Energy Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Fighting
item: Choice Scarf
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-Speed is the name of the game here, Choice Scarf lets it check the majority of the metagame that happens to be naturally fast (Alakazam, Darmanitan etc)
-Much weaker than the previous sets, but still outrageously strong for a scarf user.


[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-It needs even MORE hazard support due to the massive drop in power.
-Also needs extremely reliably spinning support since its going to be switching around a lot.
-Needs Porygon2 and Snorlax out of the way before it can do anything.
-Houndoom is a pain.


[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fighting
item: Leftovers / Life Orb
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Modest / Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

-Calm Mind boosts its already massive SpA and reinforces its okayish SpD, turning into a tank that can kill almost everything in sight.
-Has the ability to set up on most of its best checks (Chansey, Porygon2)
-A nightmare to take down with Toxic Spikes support
-You can forego Substitute for Hidden Power Fighting. After a calm mind boost and a life orb, HP fighting will 2HKO both Snorlax and Porygon2 (if Snorlax mispredicts or it lacks Crunch, you can beat it 1 on 1)

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-Snorlax is still a reliable stop to this set, so building your team around him as always, is recommended.
-Sun support is optional to get the most of this set. Nothing in the game can take a +1 Fire Blast in the sun, even Chansey and Snorlax are straight up 2HKOed.
-Entry hazard is useful as usual. Chandelure is initially quite weak without any boosts, especially if its using leftovers.
-Rapid spin support is expected, especially considering this set lacks any form of healing and will often sacrifice HP to use substitute.

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Flamethrower
move 2: Will-O-Wisp / Energy Ball
move 3: Shadow Ball / Taunt
move 4: Pain Split
item: Leftovers
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Modest
evs: 240 HP / 168 Def / 40 SpA / 80 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]

-Despite being a ghost type with lackluster defenses (a trait is shares with Gengar) Chandelure can be put to good use as a defensive wall due to its great defensive typing and power.
-Chandelure is now capable of reliably checking the likes of Heracross and Machamp (the other sets would fall to a predicted Stone Edge) and hard counter Escavalier (who would wreck you with a stupidly strong Megahorn)
-Will-o-Wisp and Pain Split can run circles around teams, especially slower defensive stall type teams.
-Rapid Spin is mandatory, you need to pull out all the stops. IE Blastoise is recommended due to its ability to beat one of the strongest hazard users in the tier (Froslass) 1 on 1. It also has access to Foresight.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

-Rapid Spin. You'd have to be a fool to not use Rapid Spin with this set.
-If you run Taunt, you're an even bigger to threat to slower stall teams.
-Entry hazards are nice and a possible cleric waiting in the wings.

[Other Options]

-The number #1 move that comes to mind is Flame Charge, but honestly it never really works out in practice. You're wasting a moveslot, the majority of the common scarfers in the tier STILL outspeed you and Substituting usually provides you with most advantages anyway.
-Hex is a neat option over Shadow Ball if you can reliably keep Toxic Spikes on the field. You may want to use Shadow Ball anyway for aerial targets.
-Memento is a cool move that allows you to cripple your target and possibly let your teammates set up, but there are much better memento users in the tier.
-Balloon, if you're into that sort of thing. It helps you spinblock against Donphan and check choiced ground types.

[Checks and Counters]

-Bulky normal types like Thick Fat Snorlax and Trace Porygon 2
-Bulky Water types (Milotic, Suicune)
-Rock types in sandstorm (Regirock, Rhyperior, Cradily) Aerodactyl gets a special mention because its than Chandelure and immune to Toxic Spikes.
-faster pokemon in general with strong STAB moves or SE coverage moves (Flygon, Alakazam, etc)
-SR weak so it can only switch in a limited amount of times w/o a spinner. (the spinner is a crutch, so forcing out Chandelure when hazards are up is ideal)


[Dream World]

LOL
 
LOL PLACEHOLDER xDD jk

umm me and Jubilee have been using a defensive Chandy with pretty good results so far:

[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: Pain Split
move 2: Will-O-Wisp
move 3: Shadow Ball
move 4: Flamethrower / Fire Blast
item: Leftovers
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Bold
evs: 240 HP / 248 Def / 20 Spe

Despite Chandy's many weaknesses, it can actually survive CS Hera and Machamp's stone edge and KO with Flamethrower / Fire Blast or burn, respectively. It also survives random sucker punches and shit like that. Obviously its cockblocked by Snorlax with Rest, but Snorlax cockblocks basically every Chandelure set lol the 20 evs in Speed hit 201 speed, while the HP evs hit a magic leftovers number, and the rest go into Defense :D

It's actually a surprisingly good set, test it out!

Chandy's deceptively bulky...
 
Sorry to double post, but here are some calcs to support defensive chandy:

Timid LO Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 240 / 0 Chandelure: 79.75% - 93.46% (2HKO)
Adamant Machamp Stone Edge vs. 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.94% - 68.54% (2HKO, never OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 56.07% - 66.67% (2HKO, never OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Jolly Choice Scarf Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 51.71% - 61.06% (2-3HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 84.74% - 99.69% (2HKO)
Jolly Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 77.26% - 90.97% (2HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Stoutland Crunch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.94% - 68.54% (2HKO)
Adamant LO Stoutland Crunch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 50.47% - 59.81% (2-3HKO)
Adamant LO Bisharp Sucker Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 88.79% - 103.74% (31.25% OHKO)
Adamant Choice Band Azumarill Aqua Jet vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.94% - 69.16% (2HKO)
Jolly Leftovers Cobalion Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 41.42% - 48.6% (3HKO)
Adamant Leftovers Snorlax Crunch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 41.74% - 49.22% (3HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Spiritomb Shadow Sneak vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 42.06% - 49.53% (3HKO)
Jolly Choice Band Weavile Night Slash vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 78.5% - 92.52% (2HKO)
Naive LO 4 Atk Zoroark Sucker Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.01% - 67.29% (2HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Excavalier Megahorn vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 19.94% - 23.36% (6-7HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Excavalier Iron Head vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 26.48% - 31.46% (4-5HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Golurk Shadow Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 90.65% - 107.48% (43.75% OHKO)
Adamant Leftovers Golurk Shadow Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 60.75% - 71.96% (2HKO, never OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Adamant Leftovers Golurk Earthquake vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 84.11% - 99.07% (2HKO)
Adamant Leftovers +1 Kingdra Waterfall vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 84.11% - 99.07 (2HKO)
Adamant Choice Scarf Flygon Earthquake vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 72.9% - 85.98% (2HKO)

that's all the calcs for now, but as you can see, they are quite impressive. Adamant CB Hera's Stone Edge NEVER OHKOes! :o
 
Replace the Dream World section with "points to Wobbuffet in past generations". I would merge the Choice Specs and Choice Scarf sets and maybe give the Defensive set a bit more speed.
 
May I recommend a Flame Charge set? I know it was mentioned in the old OU analysis but Volcarona outclassed that set with Quiver Dance. Since Volcarona is OU, Chandelure can now freely fix its speed issues without being outclassed.
Here is the set I run.
Set name: Flame Charge
Move 1: Flame Charge
Move 2: Fire Blast/Flamethrower
Move 3: Shadow Ball
Move 4: Energy Ball
Nature: Modest/Timid
Item: Life Orb
EV's: 4 HP, 252 Sp. A, 252 Speed

With a flame charge under its belt, Chandelure now has the speed of the Choice Scarf set but with more power and the freedom to switch moves. Fire Blast is there for its sheer damage output, but I suppose you could run Flamethrower but Fire Blast is better. Shadow Ball is there as its Ghost stab and Energy Ball is for those pesky Water types.

I don't know what outspeeds both natures(I'm certain some choice scarfers outspeed the Modest nature) but if anyone knows, that'll be great. Just bear with me, as I'm new despite the date I joined but I barely logged on Smogon and didn't really discuss topics.

Edit: Now I could make a huge list of calculations to show the Flame Charge set's power(Not forcing you all to use it. If you don't like it, then you just don't. That's life) but I just don't have the time to make a list of calculations due to High School getting in the way of my schedule. But I suppose I could calculate Chandelure against Chansey, which is a demon to most Special Attackers.

4 HP 252 Sp Attack 252 Speed Life Orb Modest Chandelure vs. 252 HP 252 Defense 4 Spd Bold Eviolite Chansey = 27.7% - 32.53 Guaranteed 4HKO. Probably a 3hko with Spikes and Stealth Rocks.

So what does this mean? It means that this Chandelure can probably OHKO or 2HKO anything not named Chansey with the appropriate move. Flame Charge gives Chandelure the speed of Choice Scarf but with freedom of moves and more power thanks to Life Orb. Now Chandelure can sweep without worrying about speed. The hard part is probably setting up but so far I've been usually able to Flame Charge if I predicted right and hopefully not get him/her killed. I hope that was enough proof, despite the fact that you can't prove an opinion wrong. Is it enough to consider my set? "You don't have to put it in if you don't like it..."
 
I've tested and I actually don't really love the defensive set, and the Flame charge set is meh as well.

I mean look at the calculations, they are very very misleading because you forgot to include Stealth Rock. Once Stealth Rock is up, you basically have a useless Defensive Chand on your team.
Timid LO Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 240 / 0 Chandelure: 79.75% - 93.46% (2HKO) -> OHKO
Adamant Machamp Stone Edge vs. 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.94% - 68.54% (2HKO, never OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Adamant Choice Scarf Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 56.07% - 66.67% (2HKO, never OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Jolly Choice Scarf Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 51.71% - 61.06% (2-3HKO) -> 2HKO
Adamant Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 84.74% - 99.69% (2HKO) -> OHKO
Jolly Choice Band Heracross Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 77.26% - 90.97% (2HKO) -> OHKO
Adamant Choice Band Stoutland Crunch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.94% - 68.54% (2HKO)
Adamant LO Stoutland Crunch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 50.47% - 59.81% (2-3HKO)
Adamant LO Bisharp Sucker Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 88.79% - 103.74% (31.25% OHKO) -> OHKO
Adamant Choice Band Azumarill Aqua Jet vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.94% - 69.16% (2HKO)
Jolly Leftovers Cobalion Stone Edge vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 41.42% - 48.6% (3HKO) -> 2HKO (+2 is a OHKO)
Adamant Leftovers Snorlax Crunch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 41.74% - 49.22% (3HKO) -> 2HKO (+1 is a OHKO)
Adamant Choice Band Spiritomb Shadow Sneak vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 42.06% - 49.53% (3HKO) -> 2HKO
Jolly Choice Band Weavile Night Slash vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 78.5% - 92.52% (2HKO) -> OHKO
Naive LO 4 Atk Zoroark Sucker Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 57.01% - 67.29% (2HKO)
Adamant Choice Band Excavalier Megahorn vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 19.94% - 23.36% (6-7HKO) -> 4HKO I think...it walls Bug-types...
Adamant Choice Band Excavalier Iron Head vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 26.48% - 31.46% (4-5HKO) -> 3HKO
Adamant Choice Band Golurk Shadow Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 90.65% - 107.48% (43.75% OHKO) -> OHKO
Adamant Leftovers Golurk Shadow Punch vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 60.75% - 71.96% (2HKO, never OHKO with Stealth Rock)
Adamant Leftovers Golurk Earthquake vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 84.11% - 99.07% (2HKO) -> OHKO
Adamant Leftovers +1 Kingdra Waterfall vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 84.11% - 99.07 (2HKO) -> OHKO (Note: +1 is common from DD or from Rain)
Adamant Choice Scarf Flygon Earthquake vs 240 / 248 Chandelure: 72.9% - 85.98% (2HKO) -> Likely OHKO
There are like 2 calculations in that list that actually don't matter with Stealth Rock.

The defensive EVs don't even matter for most of these KOs.
 
I've tested and I actually don't really love the defensive set, and the Flame charge set is meh as well.

I mean look at the calculations, they are very very misleading because you forgot to include Stealth Rock. Once Stealth Rock is up, you basically have a useless Defensive Chand on your team.
There are like 2 calculations in that list that actually don't matter with Stealth Rock.

The defensive EVs don't even matter for most of these KOs.

I don't think Chandelure even needs to run a defensive set, because there are so many Pokemon better suited for the job. I think of Chandelure as a Wallbreaker. I thought Flame Charge would remove the need of Choice Scarf for freedom of moves and attempt a late game sweep, but I'm certain that there are quite a bit of Pokemon in UU that wall it "points at Chansey"
 
Is max speed really necessary on sets running Modest? I would use enough to outrun base 100s and put the rest in HP. I can't think of anything important it outspeeds with 252 Modest.
 
Stuff like Slow Scarf Flygon actually, but that's just a Speed creep so I'd say you're mostly right....but to beat Alakazam (372) you are really only dropping 16 total Speed which is kind of useless in any other stat for Chandelure, especially to the point in which beating opposing Modest Chandelure is more important.
 
Stuff like Slow Scarf Flygon actually, but that's just a Speed creep so I'd say you're mostly right....but to beat Alakazam (372) you are really only dropping 16 total Speed which is kind of useless in any other stat for Chandelure, especially to the point in which beating opposing Modest Chandelure is more important.

Oh, sorry. I was just talking about LO/Specs sets, not Scarf sets, I should've clarified that. >_<
 
There's no way i'm ditching the defensive set. I've seen do well well on stall teams and users like chanazn and Jubilee have put it good use too. I'm not really a fan of the flame charge set (or flame charge sets in general) so far now i'm not going to include in the the analysis, unless you can prove to me that its a good set.

Also jubilee, are you sure its a good idea to run bulk? You need at least 160 speed evs to outspeed 0 speed base 100's (which iirc the only one that doesn't run that much speed is Mew, and I know for a fact that they run at least 36 speed evs minimum) if Celebi were still around I could justify increasing Chandelure's health, but as of now I don't see a point to running bulk + tying with opposing Chandelure is kinda cool. Also more HP = less hp gained from pain split.
 
Fair enough.

Defensive set: Rejected

If it gets 3 approvals you can just include it anyway but I disagree with it being a set.

Rest of analysis: Approved

Doesn't matter that the set has been used effectively, so have other sets that we don't include because they are not relatively effective sets. It's pointless to have Chandelure with those EVs since they don't make a difference in more than 2-3 very situational attacks. Note: you can't switch into any of those attacks, merely a temporary check (CB Stoutland KOes once you switch out and then switch back in...). Hard damage calculations speak for themselves.

Stick to abusing its power and immunities.
 
I gave the defensive set a whirl and from first impressions I'll say that it works, but it seems to me that most of its effectiveness comes from its unexpectedness. For example, I have burned Hitmontops who were trying to Pursuit Chandelure, stalled out RestTalk WW Snorlax and walled Flash Fire non-LO Arcanine (and I had Taunt + Flamethrower lol). That's first impressions - it works, but I'm not sure how much of that is because it is unorthodox.
 
I'm one of those that's pretty skeptical about defensive Chandelure, but it seems to work based on what other users have said / done. Considering the skepticism in this thread to it, is there any way you could put it at the bottom of the list of sets since there listed in order of viability or effectiveness?

edit: oh wait it is already >_>
 
I like defensive Chandy just because it's the only Pokemon that fits its specific niche. It's stronger than Froslass, and it's bulkier, faster, and stronger than Golurk. It also has a better ability than both of those. I don't think its defensive prowess is what you need to emphasize (because I would much rather use arcanine for that), as much as the fact that it's a ghost type that can also hit things and maybe take a few hits.
 
Ok so I'll be more specific. Can we find a better EV spread for that Chandelure so that it actually makes a difference when it switches in / doesn't have any useless defensive EVs.
 
Ok so I'll be more specific. Can we find a better EV spread for that Chandelure so that it actually makes a difference when it switches in / doesn't have any useless defensive EVs.

For defensive Chandy?

I'd go with something like this:

[Spinblocker]
Chandelure @ Leftovers
Modest
240 HP / 168 Def / 40 SpA / 80 Spe

- Flamethrower
- Will-o-Wisp/Energy Ball
- Taunt
- Pain Split

This chandelure is basically specialized towards spinblocking, which is pretty much its only defensive niche. Some of the slashes can be reworked, but the basic idea is to use like it a stronger, slower spinblocker Mismagius that can counter powerful fire threats. Abuse your prolific immunities, taunt attempts at status, burn physical attackers that threaten you, then pain split your health back. Energy Ball lets you beat Blastoise while Will-o-Wisp lets you beat Donphan and Stone Edge Hitmontop. The defensive EVs let you avoid being 2hko'd by unstab Stone Edges after a burn. The SpA EVs are necessary to get specific 2hkos with Flamethrower and Energy Ball, against Hitmontop and Blastoise specifically.
 
They are essentially pointless; they don't avoid any KOes from common Pokemon that will be hitting Chandelure.

I like that spread much better, I'll test it further though.
 
They are essentially pointless; they don't avoid any KOes from common Pokemon that will be hitting Chandelure.

I like that spread much better, I'll test it further though.

Well that's not the point right ... a defensive Pokemon will be switching in and out and taking residual damage all the time. So you won't always be at 100%, SR won't always be up, etc. You could for example bring Chandelure into Escavalier's Megahorn, which immediately changes any potential OHKOes and 2HKOes in the future.

I see nothing wrong with that EV spread. Chandelure will be taking mostly phyiscal attacks because it's not something that can wall other Chandelure, Milotic, etc, but it will outspeed Pokemon like Donphan, Machamp and Snorlax and hit them with WoW before they use their super-effective moves. That said, I do wonder what those 20 Speed EVs are supposed to be doing (or what FlareBlitz's 80 Speed EVs are for, too). What exactly is Chandelure outspeeding with those EVs?
 
Well that's not the point right ... a defensive Pokemon will be switching in and out and taking residual damage all the time. So you won't always be at 100%, SR won't always be up, etc. You could for example bring Chandelure into Escavalier's Megahorn, which immediately changes any potential OHKOes and 2HKOes in the future.

I see nothing wrong with that EV spread. Chandelure will be taking mostly phyiscal attacks because it's not something that can wall other Chandelure, Milotic, etc, but it will outspeed Pokemon like Donphan, Machamp and Snorlax and hit them with WoW before they use their super-effective moves. That said, I do wonder what those 20 Speed EVs are supposed to be doing (or what FlareBlitz's 80 Speed EVs are for, too). What exactly is Chandelure outspeeding with those EVs?

It means Chandy is too frail to pull off a purely defensive set. As the calculations show, just a simple SR set up means Chandy fails to wall the large number of Pokemon it should. This isn't a problem with Arcanine due to instant recovery and Intimidate to artificially boost its defensive stats, but Chandy has neither of those assets. Therefore, it makes more sense to say "okay, this just isn't going to survive SE hits after SR, so let's just tailor it towards coming in on its immunities, being fast enough to taunt and burn threats before they can KO it, and having enough SpA to then ko them in a reasonable fashion". Essentially, you turn it from a wall to a semi-offensive spinblocker, and it is definitely much better suited to the latter role.

The speed EVs in my set allow it to outspeed neutral-natured 0 Spe base 85s (think Suicune) and max speed neutral base 55s (if you're running WoW, taunting omastar before it can shell smash on your ass is nice).
 
Should probably make a mention of Flame Body in the sets with Substitute on them. While Flash Fire is obviously the better ability, Flame Body makes sure that you can beat Porygon2, as well being an annoying piece of crap when you burn opposing Pokemon with Flame Body just by Subbing.
 
Should probably make a mention of Flame Body in the sets with Substitute on them. While Flash Fire is obviously the better ability, Flame Body makes sure that you can beat Porygon2, as well being an annoying piece of crap when you burn opposing Pokemon with Flame Body just by Subbing.

that's been confirmed as a PO bug, which i hope they fix soon. (omegadonut tested it on DS i think)
 
that's been confirmed as a PO bug, which i hope they fix soon. (omegadonut tested it on DS i think)

Oh, okay then. Ignore the second part then, just mention that Porygon2 can no longer wall Chandelure if it's using Flame Body.
 
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