Victreebel (QC 0/3)

HART4FLOON · Nov 6th, 2011, 12:01:07 PM

Victreebel

[Overview]
- strongest sun sweeper in RU (other than lilligant on special side but i digress lol)
- great boosting moves in growth and swords dance
- access to sleep powder to incapacitate counters
- unfortunately, requires sun to be useful and lack of permanent sun hurts it

[SET]
name: Sun Sweeper (Mixed)
move 1: Growth
move 2: Leaf Blade / Power Whip
move 3: Weather Ball / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Mild
evs: 92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
- grass + fire + poison hits everything neutrally iirc
- power whip is illegal with weather ball, so you have to use hp fire with it
- outspeeds up to scarf adamant primeape

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
- sleep powder if you dgaf about fire types
- hazard support helps with ko's on tricky foes that are borderline 2HKO'ed and such
- sun is pretty much mandatory since victreebel lacks the bulk and speed to do much without it

[Other Options]
- swords dance but generally inferior to growth; ability to ko stuff like uxie though is nice
- pure special set but ability to beat
- return, synthesis, encore, hp rock

[Checks and Counters]
- though it's very scary after a boost, nabbing that boost will not happen as long as you keep up offensive pressure
- if it does boost up, any strong pokemon that can take a hit can be considered a counter
- fire types beat victreebel lacking sludge bomb
- priority can kill a weakened victreebel

[Dream World]
- gluttony is worse than chlorophyll
- don't use it lol

col49 · Nov 6th, 2011, 12:19:13 PM

Why list Hp Fire in the same slot as Weather Ball? One of the biggest reasons to run Victreebell is the ability to run another Hidden Power without having to resort to Hp Fire. I would say that Hp Rock would be preferrable, hitting Moltres/Entei/Altaria (rare as it is) for SE damage. Just generally speaking, I would say that Leaf Blade+Weather Ball is more valuable than the extra power of Powah Whip, but I suppose there could be instances of it's use. Also, I'd mention Encore, locking someone into a move at such speed is pretty awesome, whether you choose to use it to set up Growth or not.

jc104 · Nov 6th, 2011, 1:34:01 PM

Moltres is pretty much the only reason to use HP rock, and that's only in the rare instance that you don't OHKO it anyway. It only hits other fire and flying types slightly harder than Sludge Bomb (140 BP as opposed to 135), does less damage to everything else (very relevant if the opponent tries to stall out sun), and lowers Victreebel's IVs unnecessarily. It doesn't even warrant a slash.

HART4FLOON · Nov 6th, 2011, 5:08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat col49

Why list Hp Fire in the same slot as Weather Ball? One of the biggest reasons to run Victreebell is the ability to run another Hidden Power without having to resort to Hp Fire. I would say that Hp Rock would be preferrable, hitting Moltres/Entei/Altaria (rare as it is) for SE damage. Just generally speaking, I would say that Leaf Blade+Weather Ball is more valuable than the extra power of Powah Whip, but I suppose there could be instances of it's use. Also, I'd mention Encore, locking someone into a move at such speed is pretty awesome, whether you choose to use it to set up Growth or not.

That's why I listed Leaf Blade + Weather Ball as the first slash. Power Whip + HP Fire are the second slash. Power Whip still has its uses anyway. It OHKO's Munchlax after SR and a layer of spikes iirc and nets a few other KO'es I think. Encore is already mentioned in OO. Victreebel can't safely use Encore most of the time because his defenses are very underwhelming. Besides, he's better off just hitting as hard and as quickly as possible.

Windsong · Nov 21st, 2011, 7:43:25 PM

Honestly, why is Sleep Powder as only a slash, and not even a main slash? It's probably one of the main reasons to use this over, say, Shiftry or something. That and the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, which you fail to mention.

Not sure why you have the speed benchmark in the EVspread as enough to outspeed +1 neutral base 95s, considering that the main one (Primape) almost always runs a +Spe nature, and you also lose out on outspeeding +1 positive speed base 100s. Please find a more efficient EVspread. Probably like 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe, which iirc outspeeds +1 +Spe nature base 95s.

I see no reason not to have a purely special set and a purely physical set, both of which have advantages beyond the wallbreaking abilities of the mixed set.

[SET]
name: Sun Sweeper (Special)
move 1: Sleep Powder / Growth
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Weather Ball
move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Sludge Bomb
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Mild
evs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe

[SET]
name: Sun Sweeper (Physical)
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Power Whip / Leaf Blade
move 3: Sucker Punch
move 4: Sleep Powder / Weather Ball
item: Life Orb
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Adamant
evs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe

In general even for a skeleton this needs a lot more work. Finish it up and I'll give it a QC stamp! But please get to work on it, as it hadn't had a post for a few weeks and was starting to clog up the back of the section a bit. ^_^

PrimeMinister · Nov 21st, 2011, 7:54:01 PM

Maybe give mention that it's too frail to put up it's own sunlight.
Uh, perhaps entei could prove a viable teammate, y'know, with the sunny day set. It can also switch into ice and bug type attacks...........maybe........?

HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT PUT SUCKER PUNCH INTO OO?
I see it's viability.....
QC member if you believe differently please tell me otherwise and why.

lars · Nov 22nd, 2011, 3:32:33 AM

@Kingcharizard, I can see reasons that it is viable and not viable.

On my gen 4 mono grass team I used swords dance, return, sucker punch, other attack move/stun/sleep

Sent it in after dual screens were up and boosted once or twice, usually took out plenty of stuff vs other mono teams (especially types that had an advantage over grass)

Back on topic... in the sun it would have very few uses as Victreebel will likely be out-speeding most things anyway and Sucker Punch would have lower damage output and it would not be able to damage any switches.

Out of the sun is a whole 'nother ball game.

For example, you have your +2 victreebel that just swept a couple of 'mons with leaf blade/weather ball and the sun has just run out. A frail (or weakened) revenge killer comes in to end you once and for all (or force the switch) and you swiftly respond with a sucker punch to continue the reign of terror!

Also can be useful as a last ditch attempt at ending a possible sweep of your team outside of the sun.

Basically... to warrant its place in one of the 3 spots Victreebel has left is dependent on the team that supports him and Bel's place in it. Although it is situational (on a chlorophyll user) at best, I personally agree that it deserves a spot in OO/AC

athleteandy1 · Nov 22nd, 2011, 10:03:41 PM

not even an oo mention of solarbeam? it could work in a meta with little weather such as this one

***Oglemi**** · Nov 25th, 2011, 4:39:20 PM

this was dropped, locking and moving

Nov 6th, 2011, 12:01:07 PM	#1
HART4FLOON Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 273	Victreebel (QC 0/3) Victreebel [Overview] - strongest sun sweeper in RU (other than lilligant on special side but i digress lol) - great boosting moves in growth and swords dance - access to sleep powder to incapacitate counters - unfortunately, requires sun to be useful and lack of permanent sun hurts it [SET] name: Sun Sweeper (Mixed) move 1: Growth move 2: Leaf Blade / Power Whip move 3: Weather Ball / Hidden Power Fire move 4: Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder item: Life Orb ability: Chlorophyll nature: Mild evs: 92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe [SET COMMENTS] - grass + fire + poison hits everything neutrally iirc - power whip is illegal with weather ball, so you have to use hp fire with it - outspeeds up to scarf adamant primeape [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] - sleep powder if you dgaf about fire types - hazard support helps with ko's on tricky foes that are borderline 2HKO'ed and such - sun is pretty much mandatory since victreebel lacks the bulk and speed to do much without it [Other Options] - swords dance but generally inferior to growth; ability to ko stuff like uxie though is nice - pure special set but ability to beat - return, synthesis, encore, hp rock [Checks and Counters] - though it's very scary after a boost, nabbing that boost will not happen as long as you keep up offensive pressure - if it does boost up, any strong pokemon that can take a hit can be considered a counter - fire types beat victreebel lacking sludge bomb - priority can kill a weakened victreebel [Dream World] - gluttony is worse than chlorophyll - don't use it lol __________________ [QUOTE=New World Order;3943789] - Celebi is a penis, Tyranitar, Jirachi, and Scizor can take it[endQUOTE] oh baby Last edited by HART4FLOON; Nov 6th, 2011 at 5:10:33 PM.

Nov 6th, 2011, 12:19:13 PM	#2
col49 the Jack Black Pokemon Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 763 planet fickle	Why list Hp Fire in the same slot as Weather Ball? One of the biggest reasons to run Victreebell is the ability to run another Hidden Power without having to resort to Hp Fire. I would say that Hp Rock would be preferrable, hitting Moltres/Entei/Altaria (rare as it is) for SE damage. Just generally speaking, I would say that Leaf Blade+Weather Ball is more valuable than the extra power of Powah Whip, but I suppose there could be instances of it's use. Also, I'd mention Encore, locking someone into a move at such speed is pretty awesome, whether you choose to use it to set up Growth or not. __________________ Tehy: like i get the feeling you're pro or something Tehy: but Tehy: on this ladder Tehy: it's so fucking hard to tell

Nov 21st, 2011, 7:54:01 PM	#6
PrimeMinister Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 311 After the DQonquest	Maybe give mention that it's too frail to put up it's own sunlight. Uh, perhaps entei could prove a viable teammate, y'know, with the sunny day set. It can also switch into ice and bug type attacks...........maybe........? HOW THE HELL DO YOU NOT PUT SUCKER PUNCH INTO OO? I see it's viability..... QC member if you believe differently please tell me otherwise and why. __________________ Anyone like star wars? No.....? Last edited by PrimeMinister; Nov 21st, 2011 at 8:00:13 PM. Reason: Pargershnitzel

Nov 22nd, 2011, 3:32:33 AM	#7
lars Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 265	@Kingcharizard, I can see reasons that it is viable and not viable. On my gen 4 mono grass team I used swords dance, return, sucker punch, other attack move/stun/sleep Sent it in after dual screens were up and boosted once or twice, usually took out plenty of stuff vs other mono teams (especially types that had an advantage over grass) Back on topic... in the sun it would have very few uses as Victreebel will likely be out-speeding most things anyway and Sucker Punch would have lower damage output and it would not be able to damage any switches. Out of the sun is a whole 'nother ball game. For example, you have your +2 victreebel that just swept a couple of 'mons with leaf blade/weather ball and the sun has just run out. A frail (or weakened) revenge killer comes in to end you once and for all (or force the switch) and you swiftly respond with a sucker punch to continue the reign of terror! Also can be useful as a last ditch attempt at ending a possible sweep of your team outside of the sun. Basically... to warrant its place in one of the 3 spots Victreebel has left is dependent on the team that supports him and Bel's place in it. Although it is situational (on a chlorophyll user) at best, I personally agree that it deserves a spot in OO/AC __________________ lars: scolipede is such an under rated lead DiscoLord: it eats cyanide and shits fucking acid ---------------------------------------------------- O.o <--- that is all I have to say

Nov 22nd, 2011, 10:03:41 PM	#8
athleteandy1 Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 301	not even an oo mention of solarbeam? it could work in a meta with little weather such as this one __________________ Analyses I've written: (RU) Emboar Gurdurr Musharna Rotom-F Tauros Vanilluxe Shelgon (NU) Analyses I'm working on: (RU) Rampardos (QC 3/3) Ursaring (GP 1/2) (NU) Shedinja (QC 0/3) Electabuzz (QC 0/3) Kangaskhan

Nov 21st, 2011, 7:43:25 PM	#5
Windsong you know you loved me, xoxo Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 817 elsewhere	Honestly, why is Sleep Powder as only a slash, and not even a main slash? It's probably one of the main reasons to use this over, say, Shiftry or something. That and the ability to absorb Toxic Spikes, which you fail to mention. Not sure why you have the speed benchmark in the EVspread as enough to outspeed +1 neutral base 95s, considering that the main one (Primape) almost always runs a +Spe nature, and you also lose out on outspeeding +1 positive speed base 100s. Please find a more efficient EVspread. Probably like 28 Atk / 252 SpA / 228 Spe, which iirc outspeeds +1 +Spe nature base 95s. I see no reason not to have a purely special set and a purely physical set, both of which have advantages beyond the wallbreaking abilities of the mixed set. [SET] name: Sun Sweeper (Special) move 1: Sleep Powder / Growth move 2: Giga Drain move 3: Weather Ball move 4: Hidden Power Rock / Sludge Bomb item: Life Orb ability: Chlorophyll nature: Mild evs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe [SET] name: Sun Sweeper (Physical) move 1: Swords Dance move 2: Power Whip / Leaf Blade move 3: Sucker Punch move 4: Sleep Powder / Weather Ball item: Life Orb ability: Chlorophyll nature: Adamant evs: 28 HP / 252 SpA / 228 Spe In general even for a skeleton this needs a lot more work. Finish it up and I'll give it a QC stamp! But please get to work on it, as it hadn't had a post for a few weeks and was starting to clog up the back of the section a bit. ^_^

Nov 25th, 2011, 4:39:20 PM	#9
*Oglemi I crashed my car into the bridge, I don't care Super Moderator** Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,532 ~(^.^)~	this was dropped, locking and moving __________________ <shade> what an intense scrotum