Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 8

Cooper · Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:52:23 PM

EDIT: Check a few posts down to see my explanations of why certain moves are up on the list.

Yay, art has been decided! My choice didn't win (again!), but that's fine too. For all you dedicated spriters out there, keep working. Sunday had the latest sprite design in the old poll, but I'm not going to show it because it might distract people. You can see it and it's predecessors here. Anyway, here's your new pokemon so far:

Bug/Ice
Ability: Compound Eyes/ Mountaineer
70/ 116/ 70/ 114/ 64/ 121

Mountaineer: This pokemon takes no indirect or direct damage from Rock type attacks upon switching in. This doesn't block additional effects.

Pretty good, no? Just by looking at it, you wouldn't think it's broken. It's like a mixed Heracross. But you can't always judge a pokemon by it's stats, because movepool matters quite a bit (which is why Entei still sucks). So in this poll I'm going on a different track: instead of seeing what you most want to see, you'll be voting on what you don't want to see. It's already been decided that this pokemon is going to be good, it's now up to us to limit how broken it is.

Thunderbolt and Thunder have already been eliminated by me. As have every other move that is unrealistic on this guy (the starter tutors, Draco Meteor, etc.). The moves you see in the poll above are by no means the last that will be voted upon. I'm encouraging people to post moves that should be brought up for debate, though I believe I've covered the basics.

But why do you want to hear me talk? Get voting! This poll will close in two days, and you will each get two votes. Until further notice, this is a two-parter.

tdub13 · Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:55:17 PM

Voted Hydro Pump and Stone Edge, I just don't see it getting those. On a side note, do we have a name for it yet?

***Jibaku**** · Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:56:48 PM

Voted for Fire Blast and Stone Edge. I can't see it shooting fire

NatKing · Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:59:19 PM

Zap Cannon and Hydro Pump.

I forgot Fire Blast though! =[

WeavileTamer · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:00:57 PM

I posted this quite recently ( 10 min ago )in the old poll but I thought I would bring it up again

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat WeavileTamer

I love sundays evolution of sprites thing

I did some touch ups on the shading of sundays and added a purple color that I think looks pretty good on it

The crystal spikes somewher along the line turned into wings lol on every sprite that has been done really

for some reason that right eye bothers me

voted fireblast and stoneedge

Nekada · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:03:39 PM

Out of interest, are these moves being learnt naturally or via TM? I know it theoretically doesn't make much difference seeing as it will never be in a breeding situation or on an actual game but, yea.

And more on topic, voted Fire Blast and Hydro Pump. It already has enough coverage and randomness from it's abilities/ stats. It doesn't need people guessing which move sets it's going to be running as well. Besides, it's attacking stats are high enough to dent using even NVE attacks.

Cooper · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:04:38 PM

Let me explain why I put those nine options in the poll:

Zap Cannon: 65% accurate, base 120 power Electric attack that always causes Paralysis and handles two of the most common walls in the game. Pretty self-explanatory.

Thunderpunch: Not too much of a threat in my eyes, but since it 2HKOs Skarm and presumably Gyarados, I put it up here.

Close Combat: Even with X-Scissor, Megahorn, or some physical Ice attack, Blissey can still get in a T-Wave and take this thing out of commission. Close Combat would end any hope of that. It's also a base 120 move that lowers this guy's already non-existent defenses. Overpowered and needs to be discussed.

Focus Blast: 100% accurate with Compound Eyes and just as deadly as CC. However, it would be used much less that CC, but still needs to be voted on.

Fire Blast: 100% accurate and kills the only type that resists both of this guy's STABs. I say no myself. Flamethrower will be debated if this get removed.

Stone Edge: 100% accurate with Compound Eyes. Says no to Gyarados, as well as Fire types, which are guaranteed to OHKO with Flamethrower or FB.

Earthquake: Rock and Fire types have the advantage over the pokemon's typing, but Earthquake will OHKO on the switch-in. Also doesn't make sense flavor-wise. What's it going to do, fall on the ground? No one mention Ho-oh.

Earth Power: Like Earthquake, but special. Less overpowered actually, considering the only time you really see Rock pokemon are in SS, where they get the special defense boost. Hmm....

Hydro Pump: 100% accurate with Compound Eyes and kills Rock and Fire types.

Suburvia · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:05:35 PM

Fire Blast and Earthquake.

Fire Blast? It's a Bug/Ice type, and though I could kind of see it firing the fiery thing of death from the holes in his hand. . . things. . . It just makes no sense.

Earthquake, because I can see it getting all of the other moves. Sure, everything from Gyarados to Heracross gets Earthquake, but this is the move I see it least likely using. I mean, how can it not use Stone Edge? It can use its Ice Claw things or wings to use it; GARCHOMP can, so why can't this thing?

Also, how can it NOT use Hydro Pump? He just shoots it out of his hands like Ice Beam; They're essentially the same thing except for that Hydro Pump is Water and not Ice.

So, yeah, Earthquake, simply because he said to pick two and I'd probably get flamed in one way or another if I only voted for Fire Blast >_>

Hyra · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:07:45 PM

gah... Why only two moves? I really want to vote out Close Combat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, and Stone Edge.

Fire Blast and Stone Edge are obvious no-no's, they make no sense. Hydro Pump is feasible, but I don't want to see it.

Close Combat is just too powerful. Superpower is a much better alternative that doesn't allow it to continue to plow through things after using the move. The Mountaineer ability allows it to switch in multiple times, so that isn't a problem.

I haven't voted yet, by the way.

Cooper · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:08:33 PM

Voted Earthquake and Hydro Pump.

Quote:

gah... Why only two moves? I really want to vote out Close Combat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, and Stone Edge.

Because two at a time keeps everything simple. Also note that this will go to another poll, but I'm not sure how many moves I should be trying to keep anyway. Suggestions? I was thinking the four final ones.

blastoiselover100 · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:16:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Cooper

Earthquake: Rock and Fire types have the advantage over the pokemon's typing, but Earthquake will OHKO on the switch-in. Also doesn't make sense flavor-wise. What's it going to do, fall on the ground? No one mention Ho-oh.

Mantine and Gliscor. Pretty weird move for a bat scorpion and a manta ray.

tdub13 · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:17:33 PM

Cooper, you quoted twice, lol

darkie · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:19:29 PM

I picked Fire Blast and Close Combat. Superpower is a much less broken alternative to Close Combat in this case, and I really don't see this monster summoning Fire out of anywhere except maybe in a punch (Fire/Ice/Thunder Punch seem(s) okay).

Hyra · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:22:27 PM

Okay, voted Close Combat and Fire Blast.

Fire Blast because it hits Steels SE (Steel resists Bug and Ice) and it is very unrealistic.

Close Combat because Super Power exists as a less broken option. Bring able to hit Rock and Steel-types SE for no real downfall is too unfair.

If there is another poll, I'm going to vote no EQ or Hydro Pump. EQ hits Rock, Steel, and Fire SE all of which should be reliable ways to wall this. Water hits Rock and Steel SE.

Simply, if this has Close Combat (Rock+Steel), Earthquake (Rock+Steel+Fire), and Hydro Pump(Rock+Fire), it will be hard to know what to counter it with.

Sir_Lu · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:23:08 PM

Fire Blast and below are all the things I really can't see it doing. Close Combat still does seem overpowered, and like in the last thread, I'd recommend Superpower over it. Focus Blast isn't too bad; if it opts for Compound Eyes, Stealth Rock will REALLY hamper its survivability. I voted for Earthquake and Hydro Pump; those two seemed really far fetched to me.

J-Man27 · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:23:12 PM

Voted Fire Blast and Zap Cannon. Cant see this thing using fire blast, Zap Cannon coming from this would be....meh.

Stathakis · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:23:58 PM

Obligatory fire blast/stone edge vote.

Come on. In icy bug unleashing a blast of fire? Get real. And as far as stone edge, I see bugs getting smashed by sharp rocks, not using them.

WeavileTamer · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:24:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat WeavileTamer

I posted this quite recently ( 10 min ago )in the old poll but I thought I would bring it up again

for some reason that right eye bothers me

voted fireblast and stoneedge

any replies

Cooper · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:31:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat WeavileTamer

any replies

I like Sunday's better.

Superpower seems realistic. The attack drop will really hamper attack, which is good. But on the other hand, with Ice attacks almost always special (especially Blizzard), and the potential of something like Earth Power, it might not even be necessary to have any other physical attacks.

Rubberbandman · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:46:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Stathakis

I see bugs getting smashed by sharp rocks, not using them.

Heracross can use stone edge and rock slide if you remember =/
Pinsir can also.

Stathakis · Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:59:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Rubberbandman

Heracross can use stone edge and rock slide if you remember =/
Pinsir can also.

true, but we didn't have a say in how pinsir and heracross were made. Would YOU think that a stag beetle could fling sharp rocks? If that is your reasoning then we should give it will-o-wisp as well, because bug ghosts (shedinja) don't have anything to do with fire, but shedinja got it, so why can't this bug get it. Could you see a rock monster firing off bolts of thunder. No, but ttar got thunderbolt. This pokemon didn't get thunderbolt. Cooper already said so. So if ttar gets thunderbolt and shedinja gets will-o-wisp but this doesn't, how is it any different from pinsir and heracross getting stone edge but this not getting it?

Musashi1054 · Jan 2nd, 2008, 3:04:57 PM

Will O' Wisp = ethereal
Ethereal = Spirits
Spirits = Ghosts

Therefore, Will O' Wisp is plausible on Shedinja even though it isn't a fire-type.

Stathakis · Jan 2nd, 2008, 3:06:14 PM

I was using a bad example, but I got the idea across

Cooper · Jan 2nd, 2008, 3:24:56 PM

Quote:

This pokemon didn't get thunderbolt. Cooper already said so.

Because Thunder(bolt) would be broken. Bulky waters are one of the only things this pokemon can't kill easily. Thunderpunch is an option because it's a weak attack.

Gothic Togekiss · Jan 2nd, 2008, 3:25:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Hyra

Being able to hit Rock and Steel-types SE for no real downfall is too unfair.

Wouldn't an Mach Punch, ES, Shadown Sneak, An other Quick Attack like attack after an -defense boost kill it, thus making it a bit of an downfall. I'm not saying it should/shouldn't in any way, just wanted to point that up.

Voted for Fire Blast and Stone Edge, for reason already spoken.

View Poll Results: Which moves DON'T you want to see on our new pokemon (PICK TWO)
Zap Cannon	75	33.19%
Thunderpunch	20	8.85%
Close Combat	54	23.89%
Focus Blast	24	10.62%
Fire Blast	116	51.33%
Stone Edge	44	19.47%
Earthquake	52	23.01%
Earth Power	28	12.39%
Hydro Pump	81	35.84%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 226. You may not vote on this poll

Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:52:23 PM	#1
Cooper Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,806 The sunny streets of Santa Barbara	Smogon's First "Create a Pokemon": Poll 8 EDIT: Check a few posts down to see my explanations of why certain moves are up on the list. Yay, art has been decided! My choice didn't win (again!), but that's fine too. For all you dedicated spriters out there, keep working. Sunday had the latest sprite design in the old poll, but I'm not going to show it because it might distract people. You can see it and it's predecessors here. Anyway, here's your new pokemon so far: Bug/Ice Ability: Compound Eyes/ Mountaineer 70/ 116/ 70/ 114/ 64/ 121 Mountaineer: This pokemon takes no indirect or direct damage from Rock type attacks upon switching in. This doesn't block additional effects. Pretty good, no? Just by looking at it, you wouldn't think it's broken. It's like a mixed Heracross. But you can't always judge a pokemon by it's stats, because movepool matters quite a bit (which is why Entei still sucks). So in this poll I'm going on a different track: instead of seeing what you most want to see, you'll be voting on what you don't want to see. It's already been decided that this pokemon is going to be good, it's now up to us to limit how broken it is. Thunderbolt and Thunder have already been eliminated by me. As have every other move that is unrealistic on this guy (the starter tutors, Draco Meteor, etc.). The moves you see in the poll above are by no means the last that will be voted upon. I'm encouraging people to post moves that should be brought up for debate, though I believe I've covered the basics. But why do you want to hear me talk? Get voting! This poll will close in two days, and you will each get two votes. Until further notice, this is a two-parter. Last edited by Cooper; Jan 2nd, 2008 at 2:05:24 PM.

Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:56:48 PM	#3
*Jibaku [02:06] <DixieNormous> Rodan x pookar: Just Do It Super Moderator** Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,909 Foursquare, a sprained ankle, bottlecap ninjas, and wallball	Voted for Fire Blast and Stone Edge. I can't see it shooting fire __________________

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:03:39 PM	#6
Nekada Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 121 OXON.	Out of interest, are these moves being learnt naturally or via TM? I know it theoretically doesn't make much difference seeing as it will never be in a breeding situation or on an actual game but, yea. And more on topic, voted Fire Blast and Hydro Pump. It already has enough coverage and randomness from it's abilities/ stats. It doesn't need people guessing which move sets it's going to be running as well. Besides, it's attacking stats are high enough to dent using even NVE attacks. __________________ It's so much easier when seafoam green is in fashion. Diamond FC: 3308 2240 4344

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:05:35 PM	#8
Suburvia Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 216 Canada	Fire Blast and Earthquake. Fire Blast? It's a Bug/Ice type, and though I could kind of see it firing the fiery thing of death from the holes in his hand. . . things. . . It just makes no sense. Earthquake, because I can see it getting all of the other moves. Sure, everything from Gyarados to Heracross gets Earthquake, but this is the move I see it least likely using. I mean, how can it not use Stone Edge? It can use its Ice Claw things or wings to use it; GARCHOMP can, so why can't this thing? Also, how can it NOT use Hydro Pump? He just shoots it out of his hands like Ice Beam; They're essentially the same thing except for that Hydro Pump is Water and not Ice. So, yeah, Earthquake, simply because he said to pick two and I'd probably get flamed in one way or another if I only voted for Fire Blast >_> Last edited by Suburvia; Jan 2nd, 2008 at 2:08:40 PM. Reason: Spacing mistake. . .

Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:55:17 PM	#2
tdub13 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,356 Sactown, CA	Voted Hydro Pump and Stone Edge, I just don't see it getting those. On a side note, do we have a name for it yet?

Jan 2nd, 2008, 1:59:19 PM	#4
NatKing Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,347 england. tea and crumpets, anyone?	Zap Cannon and Hydro Pump. I forgot Fire Blast though! =[

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:04:38 PM	#7
Cooper Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,806 The sunny streets of Santa Barbara	Let me explain why I put those nine options in the poll: Zap Cannon: 65% accurate, base 120 power Electric attack that always causes Paralysis and handles two of the most common walls in the game. Pretty self-explanatory. Thunderpunch: Not too much of a threat in my eyes, but since it 2HKOs Skarm and presumably Gyarados, I put it up here. Close Combat: Even with X-Scissor, Megahorn, or some physical Ice attack, Blissey can still get in a T-Wave and take this thing out of commission. Close Combat would end any hope of that. It's also a base 120 move that lowers this guy's already non-existent defenses. Overpowered and needs to be discussed. Focus Blast: 100% accurate with Compound Eyes and just as deadly as CC. However, it would be used much less that CC, but still needs to be voted on. Fire Blast: 100% accurate and kills the only type that resists both of this guy's STABs. I say no myself. Flamethrower will be debated if this get removed. Stone Edge: 100% accurate with Compound Eyes. Says no to Gyarados, as well as Fire types, which are guaranteed to OHKO with Flamethrower or FB. Earthquake: Rock and Fire types have the advantage over the pokemon's typing, but Earthquake will OHKO on the switch-in. Also doesn't make sense flavor-wise. What's it going to do, fall on the ground? No one mention Ho-oh. Earth Power: Like Earthquake, but special. Less overpowered actually, considering the only time you really see Rock pokemon are in SS, where they get the special defense boost. Hmm.... Hydro Pump: 100% accurate with Compound Eyes and kills Rock and Fire types.

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:17:33 PM	#12
tdub13 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 2,356 Sactown, CA	Cooper, you quoted twice, lol

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:19:29 PM	#13
darkie coolcoolcool Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 5,352 Plano, TX	I picked Fire Blast and Close Combat. Superpower is a much less broken alternative to Close Combat in this case, and I really don't see this monster summoning Fire out of anywhere except maybe in a punch (Fire/Ice/Thunder Punch seem(s) okay). __________________

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:23:08 PM	#15
Sir_Lu Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 617 Texas	Fire Blast and below are all the things I really can't see it doing. Close Combat still does seem overpowered, and like in the last thread, I'd recommend Superpower over it. Focus Blast isn't too bad; if it opts for Compound Eyes, Stealth Rock will REALLY hamper its survivability. I voted for Earthquake and Hydro Pump; those two seemed really far fetched to me. __________________ DP: 4639 5427 6190 BW: 5243 1245 3574 Just in: Hidden Power Electric Drizzletoad! Please respond in my thread or via VM.

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:23:12 PM	#16
J-Man27 Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 839 AZ....too hot.....	Voted Fire Blast and Zap Cannon. Cant see this thing using fire blast, Zap Cannon coming from this would be....meh. __________________ FC: 3308 1529 3332. *http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37612* The Goodwill^^^^^^^^ Avatar goes to Phox. Brawl FC: 0258-9968-8446

Jan 2nd, 2008, 2:23:58 PM	#17
Stathakis I hax people in real life Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,821	Obligatory fire blast/stone edge vote. Come on. In icy bug unleashing a blast of fire? Get real. And as far as stone edge, I see bugs getting smashed by sharp rocks, not using them.

Jan 2nd, 2008, 3:04:57 PM	#22
Musashi1054 Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 120	Will O' Wisp = ethereal Ethereal = Spirits Spirits = Ghosts Therefore, Will O' Wisp is plausible on Shedinja even though it isn't a fire-type.

Jan 2nd, 2008, 3:06:14 PM	#23
Stathakis I hax people in real life Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,821	I was using a bad example, but I got the idea across