When Hell Freezes over: Hail RMT(Peaked 1460 #20 OU Ladder)

"I once told Nixon that the Presidency is like being a jackass caught in a hail storm. You've got to just stand there and take it."
-Lyndon B. Johnson

Team at a Glance




Introduction:

Hello users of Smogon, Zoap here with my first RMT for 5th Gen OU. So I'll start with a little background on how I arrived on Hail. Originally I started the Weather Wars with Rain(before Aldarons) and Sand(before Garchomp and Dory were Uber) and easily held high 1300's with both. After the fore-mentioned got implemented I struggled along for a few months before I found myself on a new laptop with none of my teams.

I decided that day that I'd dabble in Hail and see if I could break 1200 with it. Sure enough I fell in love with Offensive Hail and since I haven't looked back with this team easily being my best. Currently this team has gone through Thunderus and Deoxsy-S banishment and is currently ranked #20 at 1460. Though I feel it's time to semi-retire it and hence this RMT(semi because I'm still gonna try and break Top 10) XD
.

Forming the Team:

First off EVERY Hail team needs the big loveable Abominable Snowman Tree?, who thanks to Snow Warning gives me the Hail and 100% Blizzard galore.




Next I knew in order to be successful that I would have to be able to abuse Hail with immunity/blizzard/snow cloak. So I started with looking for a Lead who could combat Ninetails/Tyranitar/Politoed and come up on top. I came up with Cloyster.



Next I went looking for a Physical and Special Pokemon to help me abuse Hail and wreck havoc. I chose a Choice Band Mamoswine and Choice Scarf Kyurem.




So with my team now heavily weak to Scizor and Fire, I decided to add a bulky offensive Tentacruel to help alleviate these weaknesses.




After some thought, I knew that even if everything went well that I could still fail to effectively stop Scizor/Heatran so I decided that a Choice Scarf Magnezone could help. Also this would help get rid of Ferrothorn.


After some more tweaking I decided that Cloyster was not really giving much in terms of team synergy and I was missing SR. So I changed Mamoswine over to a lead set and dropped Cloyster. At the same time I had just lost a 2 physical threats, including my Choice band, so I decided that Tentacruel's job was done well by a Multi-Scale Banded Dragonite and that Scizor would give me a good way to put dents in teams.


The Usual Lead


Mamoswine (M) @ Focus Sash Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Crash
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock


Mamoswine is definitely underrated when it comes to the lead position, reaching 394 attack with adamant, access to priority and ability to lay rocks, he is invaluable to my team. Most of the time he leads, unless I determine that he is more useful as an attacker than as a rocker. Recently I've been considering Endeavor to help combat Rotom-W who otherwise I can't touch but I can't really see me dropping any move as they all have their merits. EV's are Max Attack and Speed to give me hard hitting while still outrunning those popular bulky pokemon.

The Banded

Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- ExtremeSpeed
- Dragon Claw
- Aqua Tail
- Fire Punch

Dragonite is usually my other lead if I decide I don't need rocks right away. Choice Band boosts Dragonite's outrageous attack to an even higher level(See what I did there XD). Currently he serves as my most multipurpose Pokemon giving me the much need resist to Fire and with Multi-Scale just a damn good pivot. I run Aqua Tail over EQ to hit Gliscor, while not losing the EQ coverage that hits Terrakion, Heatran and TTar. EV's give me a speed tie with positive base 80 while still hitting 367 attack before band.

The Bully


Scizor (M) @ Life Orb Trait: Technician
EVs: 176 Atk / 80 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Swords Dance
- Brick Break

What?!? You run max speed Jolly Scizor? Yes and I can't tell you how many times it has destroyed non scarfed Magnezones, slow Rotom-W and the ever so popular SpD Heatran. Scizor gives me a good way to help Dragonite punch holes in teams for Kyruem's clean up. I run Brick Break over Super Power as I don't like being counter-productive after a SD. EV's give me the surprise speed of tieing all positive base 70's and still hitting 340 attack before a boost.

The Star of the Show



Kyurem @ Choice Scarf Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Blizzard
- Draco Meteor
- Focus Blast
- Dragon Pulse


This is a God send for Hail teams, before you had to choose speed with mediocre SpA(Frolass) or SpA with crap for speed(Glaceon). Kyurem says I can do both at 95 base speed and 130 SpA, Kyreum hits like a truck and doesn't have to worry about any non scarfers. Kyreum usually is used as my clean up mon, though it has no problems being used early to abuse those 100% blizzards.

The Snowman


Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Protect
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Blizzard


I'll start by saying I rarely ever lead with Abomasnow. While Hail is important to this team, it functions perfectly fine without it and often Aboma is my answer as a defensive pivot more than anything else. I opted for HP Fire for fun with opposing Scizors. I also use to run Substitue over protect but the life is too important to be putting up subs. Protect allows me to abuse hail damage and leech seed. EV's are max HP with focus on Def and a little put into SpD. Leftover is great when combined with Leech Seed.

The Reliever



Magnezone @ Leftovers Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Substitute


His job is simple, get rid of all the annoying things that can cause a problem to Kyruem sweep. This includes but is not limited to Ferrothorn, Choice Banded Scizor, Skarmory, Burungeru and Forteress. Also he hits Politoed and Tyranitar which is a plus as long weather wars can drain on Abomasnow. I originally was using Choice Scarf as I figured I would be needing the speed to combat these threats, but I found that I was missing out on OHKO's even with modest. With Sub I can avoid status and have protection for after I disppose of the current threat. EV's are max SpA and Speed with Timid for as much speed as possible. I chose to run Flash Canon over Signal Beam as it hits Gliscor/Landorus harder. I've been considering changing HP Fire to Ice but I fear those non banded Scizors that T-Bolt can't OHKO.




So that's the team that got me to Top 20 on the current OU ladder and I'm looking for any helpful suggestions on improvement. I'm mostly retiring this team to dabble back into UU(Haven't touched it in forever).

For those of you wondering I ladder under the name bored.
 
First thing i noticed is a huge fire weakness.
With only dragonite to take fire type attacks i would assume it is a bulky DDnite or something , but it appears to be banded.
Wich means , it will die after a fire blast or 2-3 and even faster if someone would predict it .
I would defenatly get roost on the set somewhere.

Your scizor set looks like its in need of roost/leftovers too.
 
You have a pretty big weakness to Sun teams and a Fire weakness in general. To help combat this, I'd recommend a Specially Defensive Heatran over Magnezone. That way you have an extra Fire immunity, you can beat most common members of Sun teams, such as Volcarona and Venusaur, and you can still beat Scizor.

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
 
ManBearPig has a great idea. A heatran with Substitute and Lava Plume and Earth Power would be a great addition. It can also do some damage to TTar with Lava Plume's burn chance or Earth power. I suppose you could run HP Grass/Electric to deal with Toed. It can also run SR, which would free room for Endeavour on Mamoswine.
 
Hey,

this team is actually very solid, as shown by that nice little ladder peak. I'm not the first one to say that you lack a solid Fire resist; Dragonite isn't exactly the most reliable thing, since you'll both be leading with it a lot and be sending it in to punch holes very often. This really leaves you open to sun teams who can get the better of you if you make a few simple misplays (i.e. you sac your Dragonite early to take on something). The best thing, in my mind, would be for you to try out an offensive Heatran over your Magnezone. It gets rid of and forces out the same threats that Magnezone does (both being great checks to most Steel-types), but with offensive Heatran you can put a lot of pressure on sun teams. This takes a lot of pressure off of Dragonite, so that way you can save it for when you really need it. Heatran also serves as a great check for most SD Lucario, who can pretty much 6-0 you otherwise.

Heatran @ Air Balloon | Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Fire Blast / HP Ice / Earth Power / Stealth Rock

You won't be able to check Jellicent with Heatran now (though admittedly Magnezone isn't the best check for Jellicent in the first place), so another thing you could try to remedy this is Wood Hammer over Blizzard or Protect on Abomasnow. This gives you a great attack for most bulky Water-types (especially opposing Politoed), who can really gives this team a lot of pain otherwise. Wood Hammer's recoil is also mitigated by Leech Seed, which is a nice plus. If the recoil still sounds unappealing, you can try Giga Drain instead. Another thing - what exactly are the SpD EVs for on Scizor? I mean they could help with getting rid of Latios, but I think you would be better off either going with a fully bulky or fully offensive SD spread, so you can get the best of either of them. Again, solid team, gl in the future!
 
Even though you've had alot of success with this team, I think you'd do even better if you implemented a few things that are almost always a must for hail: a Rapid Spinner and a secondary fire resistance. The former is essential for extending Abomasnow, Kyurem, and Dragonite's lifespan; the latter is self-explanatory, as Dragonite can't take strong onslaughts from Heatran and friends by itself. So, my suggestion is to use a Pokemon that fits both these requirements - Starmie (seeing as you've already used Tentacruel). To make room, I'd drop Scizor, since it's going to be killing itself way too quickly between hail and Life Orb.

As for minor changes, I strongly urge you try Endeavor on Mamoswine. After your Focus Sash is activated, it's excellent for killing mons such as Politoed, Rotom-W, and Skarmory (bring them to 1 HP with Endeavor and watch them die to hail), which your team will appreciate. Just a few things to consider, hope I helped and gl.
Starmie @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
Bold | 252 HP / 176 Def / 32 SpA / 8 SpD
Scald | Blizzard | Rapid Spin | Recover
 
Although I can hardly do a full on dissin' since this team is so high-acheiving, I think that CB Dragonite in hail is, frankly, rather silly. Reason being that, thanks to hail and no leftovers or wish passer. You get one turn of multiscale-ness, then that's it, which is a waste of such a great ability. I suggest running a DD set with leftovers or, dropping Dnite and giving Scizor your CB (because LO Recoil + Hail + No Recovery = Bad) and replacing it with either Heatran or Starmie, as the above posters have suggested.

Hope this helps, and good luck in reaching the top 10, I'll be behing you every step of the way (I'll peak #11 lololol)
 
First thing i noticed is a huge fire weakness.
With only dragonite to take fire type attacks i would assume it is a bulky DDnite or something , but it appears to be banded.
Wich means , it will die after a fire blast or 2-3 and even faster if someone would predict it .
I would defenatly get roost on the set somewhere.

Your scizor set looks like its in need of roost/leftovers too.
Yea now that it's down on paper I do see a big fire issue, it never really occured to me while laddering as I tend to predict pretty well and eliminate those threats early.

How do you handle Sun teams, specifically?
This is the worst general reply ever, no sun team is alike for starters and I don't see why I should list every possibility out for you. Sun in general hasn't been an issue.

You have a pretty big weakness to Sun teams and a Fire weakness in general. To help combat this, I'd recommend a Specially Defensive Heatran over Magnezone. That way you have an extra Fire immunity, you can beat most common members of Sun teams, such as Volcarona and Venusaur, and you can still beat Scizor.

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
I've considered heatran in the past and often been dissapointed, but seeing as he is the most recommended I will give one of the sets a try.

ManBearPig has a great idea. A heatran with Substitute and Lava Plume and Earth Power would be a great addition. It can also do some damage to TTar with Lava Plume's burn chance or Earth power. I suppose you could run HP Grass/Electric to deal with Toed. It can also run SR, which would free room for Endeavour on Mamoswine.
Hey,

this team is actually very solid, as shown by that nice little ladder peak. I'm not the first one to say that you lack a solid Fire resist; Dragonite isn't exactly the most reliable thing, since you'll both be leading with it a lot and be sending it in to punch holes very often. This really leaves you open to sun teams who can get the better of you if you make a few simple misplays (i.e. you sac your Dragonite early to take on something). The best thing, in my mind, would be for you to try out an offensive Heatran over your Magnezone. It gets rid of and forces out the same threats that Magnezone does (both being great checks to most Steel-types), but with offensive Heatran you can put a lot of pressure on sun teams. This takes a lot of pressure off of Dragonite, so that way you can save it for when you really need it. Heatran also serves as a great check for most SD Lucario, who can pretty much 6-0 you otherwise.

Heatran @ Air Balloon | Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Fire Blast / HP Ice / Earth Power / Stealth Rock

You won't be able to check Jellicent with Heatran now (though admittedly Magnezone isn't the best check for Jellicent in the first place), so another thing you could try to remedy this is Wood Hammer over Blizzard or Protect on Abomasnow. This gives you a great attack for most bulky Water-types (especially opposing Politoed), who can really gives this team a lot of pain otherwise. Wood Hammer's recoil is also mitigated by Leech Seed, which is a nice plus. If the recoil still sounds unappealing, you can try Giga Drain instead. Another thing - what exactly are the SpD EVs for on Scizor? I mean they could help with getting rid of Latios, but I think you would be better off either going with a fully bulky or fully offensive SD spread, so you can get the best of either of them. Again, solid team, gl in the future!
The EVs allow me to survive reniuculus focus blast with rocks up and hail.
Your set for heatran is probably the one I'll opt for as it seems to fit the team the best, as for wood hammer, I'm not interested in the recoil or having to lower some other stat because calm won't work. Ive tried giga drain in the past and it doesn't hit anything hard enough to merit a spot.
Even though you've had alot of success with this team, I think you'd do even better if you implemented a few things that are almost always a must for hail: a Rapid Spinner and a secondary fire resistance. The former is essential for extending Abomasnow, Kyurem, and Dragonite's lifespan; the latter is self-explanatory, as Dragonite can't take strong onslaughts from Heatran and friends by itself. So, my suggestion is to use a Pokemon that fits both these requirements - Starmie (seeing as you've already used Tentacruel). To make room, I'd drop Scizor, since it's going to be killing itself way too quickly between hail and Life Orb.

As for minor changes, I strongly urge you try Endeavor on Mamoswine. After your Focus Sash is activated, it's excellent for killing mons such as Politoed, Rotom-W, and Skarmory (bring them to 1 HP with Endeavor and watch them die to hail), which your team will appreciate. Just a few things to consider, hope I helped and gl.
Starmie @ Leftovers | Natural Cure
Bold | 252 HP / 176 Def / 32 SpA / 8 SpD
Scald | Blizzard | Rapid Spin | Recover
I used a similar Starmie on another hail team and found it was just easy set up for Jellicent, switch, hazards havent been an issue so for now I'll forgo that recommendation. Also Scizor is amazing along side Dnite he'd be one the members I'm very reluctant to change.

Although I can hardly do a full on dissin' since this team is so high-acheiving, I think that CB Dragonite in hail is, frankly, rather silly. Reason being that, thanks to hail and no leftovers or wish passer. You get one turn of multiscale-ness, then that's it, which is a waste of such a great ability. I suggest running a DD set with leftovers or, dropping Dnite and giving Scizor your CB (because LO Recoil + Hail + No Recovery = Bad) and replacing it with either Heatran or Starmie, as the above posters have suggested.

Hope this helps, and good luck in reaching the top 10, I'll be behing you every step of the way (I'll peak #11 lololol)
Scizor with a Band is too limited for my liking and I rarely ever find a situation where DD would have been better than just hitting with the Band.


Sorry for the uncollected responses but I'm on my phone with a tiny screen and shitty keyboard so bleh, thanks for the rates and I'll be giving heatran a try over zone
 

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I have faced your team recently, and our battle ended very close with your victory. However, I must say that that Scizor is deadly due to the sheer surprise factor. By the time the Life Orb recoil and hail kills Scizor, it's killed the foe's team. I do not think you should drop it, and to be honest, only Magnezone is not doing much. That is why I suggest a Chandelure. I think it is better than Heatran because it doesn't add to your Fighting weakness, overlooked by previous raters. You can decide between the Scarf set or the Calm Mind set.

Chandelure @Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Calm Mind
-Flamethrower
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting/Substitute

Chandelure @Choice Scarf
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest
-Overheat
-Shadow Ball
-Psychic
-Energy Ball
 
Hey I think you should put EQ over Waterfall on D-Nite and SuperPower/Roost over Brick Break on Scizor :) hope i helped
 
Scizor with a Band is too limited for my liking and I rarely ever find a situation where DD would have been better than just hitting with the Band.
It's not that I consider a CB set worse than DD (Well, I do, but that's not the point) the issue is that Dragonite's multiscale is broken by the hail, which means you need leftovers to counteract the hail otherwise you only get one turn with multiscale up which leaves Dnite very easy to eliminate.

Edit: On the Scizor issue, I too ran an offensive LO set and it was OK, but generally, Scizor used to take a hit whilst SDing, which brought it to low health. True, with the LO, Scizor was then very deadly, but the LO recoil soon finished him off (even more so when you have hail). What's more your opponent can switch from say, Kyurem to Ferrothorn on a Bullet Punch, using the LO recoil to wear you down. I tried out a bulky SD set with the following EVs: 204 HP /252 Att / 52 Spd with the leftovers and found it was much better. It can take hits better and the leftovers's recovery often mean an extra attack. It's by far the best Sczor set I've ever used, and I have used Scizor in every competetive pokemon match I've ever played.
 
Happy New Year post ;)

Anyway, teams like this one desperately need a way to get rid of Stealth Rocks since that really puts a lot of pressure on the team. I think something like Starmie would make a good alternative for Magnezone. Not only can it spin, but it also provides you with an additional Fire-resist and perhaps as equally useful, a resistance to Fighting. It also lets you keep a resistance to Steel (not unimportant with Bullet Punch Scizor as the most used pokemon). Starmie can also abuse the Hail by spamming powerful Blizzards and Natural Cure makes it easier for you to take status. You don't really need Magnezone as this "lure" Abomasnow you have takes out the likes of Scizor, Jellicent, Forretress etc anyway. Although I would suggest a more offensive variant to be more effective. Wood Hammer > Leech Seed and Expert Belt are good options here. Also make sure to run enough Speed to outrun the standard Scizor set.

As far as nitpicks go, you could go with a slightly more defensive Scizor set. Mainly because as a Steel-type it's your only resist to Dragon (if you take my Starmie suggestion that is) and with Life Orb + residual Hail damage, he won't stay around for long. I think Leftovers is a good start here, as well as Superpower > Brick Break to have a stronger move that doesn't require any set-up and it kinda makes up for the drop in power with the removal of Life Orb. And if you want to go even more defensive, Roost is an option as well.

Hope this helped and good luck with the team!
 
I see Sawsbuck demolishing this team. The fact that Sawsbuck is used on a sun team means that your team is already going to be weakened and your only fire resist, Dragonite, will probably be long gone as it will be needed to take out much of the oponent's team. With Nature Power, Heatran does not help without balloon. If Dragonite is gone before Sawsbuck is gone, its time to say good game. Balloon Sp. Def Heatran might help a little.
 
Rock polish terrakion, Infernape an Conkeldurr after setting up can hit hard and they are very common. I don,t know how you deal with them, but i think a physical deffensive Jellicent would do its job.
 

Pocket

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Seems like you are taking a liking to your particular line-up, so I'm not sure if you would end up trying out my rates, but here it is:

First of all, I really enjoy your offensive approach in Hail. Spikes-stacking, I believe, would be a nasty combination with Hail, and I have a perfect mon to get the job done: Deoxys-D

Deoxys-D @ Leftovers | Pressure
Timid Nature | 252 HP / 40 SpD / 216 Spe
Stealth Rock / Spikes / Taunt / Magic Coat


Deoxys-D really does a great job in setting up SR & Spikes while preventing the opponent from setting up - I advise that you lead with it before you summon the snow storm. Most people would argue that a suicide Deo-D lead is stupid, but I think it fits your playstyle. People may prefer a more defensive variant, but you would appreciate its ability to prevent mons like Lucario, Dragonite, and Haxorus from setting up on it. Magic Coat provides an answer against faster Taunt mons like Azelf and Sableye.

With Deoxys-D setting up Rocks and Spikes for the team, it frees up a slot on Mamoswine, in order to make it more deadly. I suggest going with an offensive LO variant to give it a bigger kick. It can now have Superpower to take out Rotom-W and weaken Bronzong. I also suggest Blizzard over Icicle Crash to 2HKO Skarmory. With a Naughty nature and Life Orb, Mamoswine easily 2HKOs Skarmory with no special attack investment.

Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Snow Cloak
Naughty | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Earthquake | Blizzard | Ice Shard | Superpower


I suggest removing Magnezone for Deoxys-D, since with the new set of Mamoswine does a good job in dispatching Steel- and Water-Types with its more offensive edge.

Just like any other Hail team, your team struggles against Volcarona (at least it seems like it on paper). The addition of Deoxys-D for racking up hazards damage doesn't help either. I suggest an offensive Air Balloon Heatran to better deal with this threat. Heatran also helps against Scizor, which would be more annoying to deal with lack of Magnezone. I suggest giving it Taunt and Will-O-Wisp to prevent mons like TTar from setting up easy Rocks on Heatran, whereas Wisp is a great move to cripple physical sweepers and rack up further passive damage in addition to Spikes + Hail.

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Timid | 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Fire Blast / Earth Power / Will-O-Wisp / Taunt


Fire Blast to hit Volcarona and eliminate Steels. Earth Power to remove Heatran, another problematic mon in general for Hail teams. Wisp adds on to the passive damage from SR, Spikes, and Hail, while Taunt prevents mon like TTar, Gyarados, and Blissey from easily setting up Rocks, Dragon Dance, and Wish, respectively. It has enough Speed to outrun Mamoswine and Jolly Toxicroak.

Other options include Roar to rack up entry hazard damage or Hidden Power [Grass] to break opposing Heatran's Air Balloon / weaken bulky Water-types that can absorb Bullet Punches / Blizzards.

I'd probably remove CB Nite for Heatran. Although removing Scizor to have a solid Dragonite + Heatran core to combat against Sun team would be desirable, Terrakion provides a much more problematic threat if you lose Scizor. One thing you can try is Quick Attack on Scizor over Bug Bite to have a decent finishing option against Volcarona. If you do this, definitely replace Brick Break for Superpower for your wall-breaking move.

Although, this is preferential, you may want to test Giga Drain over Protect on Abomasnow. Abomasnow is such a great switch-in to Water-types like Starmie, it's a shame that it cannot do anything back with the pre-existing Ice + Fire offense.

Summary:
~ Deoxys-D > Magnezone
~ LO Mamoswine with Superpower & Blizzard (Naughty Nature)
~ Offensive Air Balloon Heatran > CB Nite
~ Giga Drain on Abomasnow

Very cool team, and congrats to your success!
 

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