Swampert (QC 3/3)

[Overview]


- poor Swampert has finally fallen from grace, and ended up in UU
- first, let's focus on his perks: great typing, great bulk, great Attack, pretty great movepool too
- cons: low speed, competition from Quagsire, weak to Grass-types, lack of reliable recovery
- on the plus side, he makes a great counter to Rotom-H, and can fill Donphans shoes as a bulky Ground-type.

[SET]
name: Tank
move1: Waterfall
move2: Earthquake
move3: Ice Punch / Roar
move4: Stealth Rock / Toxic
item: Leftovers
ability: Torrent
nature: Adamant
evs: 240 HP / 252 Att / 16 Def


[SET COMMENTS]

- a powerful, not to mention bulky, tank in the current metagame
- Roserade takes a crapload of damage if it switches into EQ on the switch
- Waterfall for primary STAB, EQ most powerful attack
- Ice Punch gets the KO on stuff like, Flygon, can deal around 50% to Shaymin, and is the best attack against Togekiss
- good Pokemon to setup SR, Toxic can deal with other bulky waters

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

- EVs give a Lefties number and 401 HP, maximum Attack and rest into SpA
- Ice Beam allows for a stronger hit against Gligar and Tangrowth
- can also run a traditional bulky EV spread with a Defense boosting nature and max EVs, but loses out on a lot of power, and Swampy is still bulky enough anyway. a bulky spread really helps in taking on Darmanitan and Victini though, who can barely touch swampert
- teammates that can beat shaymin and bulky waters are excellent teammates. a sludge bomb roserade is therefore a great choice, and can provide more entry hazard support to your team


[SET]
name: Choice Band
move1: Earthquake
move2: Waterfall
move3: Ice Punch
move4: Stone Edge / Superpower
item: Choice Band
Ability: Torrent
nature: Adamant
evs: 80 HP / 252 Att / 176 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

- people often forget that Swampert has a base 110 Attack
- very bulky, very powerful, perfect coverage
- slow
- EQ is most powerful attack, but being locked into it sucks. Waterfall is primary STAB here
- Ice Punch to crush stuff like Flygon, and Grass-types like Shaymin also take a lot of damage from it
- Stone Edge for coverage against stuff like Zapdos, Superpower is his best move against Snorlax, and has nice power and coverage.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

- the Speed EVs let him outspeed minimum milotic, max attack for power and rest into bulk. can also run 208 Speed EVs for minimum suicune, or simply max HP for survivability. Swampet is a bulky mofo even without much investment however
- Pokemon who can provide entry hazards are once again excellent teammates. Roserade stand out, due to having a lovely 4x Grass resistance and the ability to defeat the Pokemon that trouble Swampert. Weavile can defeat the Grass- and flying-types that can take EQ, but has trouble switching in. Snorlax beats most specially based Grass-types, and Swampert can deal with the Pokemon that give it trouble, like Darmanitan with Superpower, Hitmontop, etc.

[Other Options]

- fine special movepool: Hydro Pump/Surf, Earth Power, Ice Beam, Hidden Power, Focus Blast
- has access to both Counter and Mirror Coat
- Yawn for more pHazing
- Curse, plus RestTalk with Waterfall. easily destroyed by Grass-types though
- Refresh can cure status

[Checks and Counters]

- Grass-types (Shaymin, Tangrowth, Roserade (can't switch into EQ or ice punch though)
- Pokemon with a surprise HP Grass, Giga Drain

I won't say roserade (it's still UU) a counter when it's probably OHKO'ed by CB Avalanche on the switch, and earthquake from the support set probably hurts a lot. Shaymin maybe.

Maybe Stealth Rock deserves a mention on CB set as Stone Edge is easily stalled by Zapdos so it's not so useful.

Umm, Swampert is UU, not RU. And I doubt it will end up here anyways. Like ever.

Wait a minute... It seems like you've just posted in the wrong forum though. Someone should move this.

Swampy is UU.

Expect quite a lot of discussion here, so let's get things started:

• Mention on the tank set that it works great as a general-purpose ''lead'' on balanced teams which don't have a specific lead.
• This is really nitpicking, but maybe the order of the slashes for moveslot 4 on the tank set should be Roar / Ice Punch / Toxic - Grass-types are VERY common switch-ins, and Ice Punch can deal heavy damage even though Swampert lacks Attack investment, especially on physically frail stuff like Roserade.
• Please remove Outrage from Other Options. Even though it's only OO, Swampert has zero use for Outrage - Ice Punch rapes Flygon anyway, and the last thing you want is getting trapped in and KOed by Grass-types. Unless it's a CB set, even Roserade can switch in on Outrage and just heal off the damage by KOing Swampert with Giga Drain.
• Superpower is kinda iffy too - afaik it OHKOes standard CurseLax (+0) / RestTalk Lax 100% with SR damage, but what else does it do? And Snorlax isn't switching into Swampert anyway - CB sets 2HKO with Waterfall / Earthquake, and the Tank set can just Roar it out or force it to Rest with Toxic.

This is all I could think of off the top of my head, so I will go test Swampert a bit more and edit this post if I find something else.

oh man, sorry i can't believe i posted this in the wrong forum lol. I'm really tired. Can a mod please move this? *facepalm

Why Impish with Waterfall? I don't really understand why you wouldn't use a -Speed nature and Surf, which hits everything important harder, especially Gligar and Donphan. Swamp is going to struggle to bring Donphan down without Surf. Similarly, Ice Beam from a -Speed nature is a lot more useful than Ice Punch overall. Roserade is hit equally hard by Earthquake...

And yeah, Roserade is not a good counter as it will get fucked up by EQ. Shaymin or Tangrowth are much better examples.

Relaxed w/ Scald should be on the primary set imo. Burn chance is way too good to give up.

Swamp is going to struggle to bring Donphan down without Surf

Click to expand...

Donphan is OU now, just a nitpick.

Anyway, no CursePert?

Relaxed mix-attacker would be cool.

Righty-ho, I think most people would prefer mixed Swampert. Scald is probably the superior option to Surf, right?

I've updated the OP with most suggestions.

@shrang: at the moment i've left Curse in OO, simply because i never had any success with it. However, i never have any success with CroMons, so I'm probably biased. If QC wants a Curse set, I'd be happy to do it. Generally though I find it harder to pull CroSweeps off with Pokemon with a 4x weakness.

Thanks for all the constructive criticism :D

I've had success with this:

Swampert @ Leftovers
Adamant / Brave
240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD
-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch / Ice Beam
-Stealth Rock / Toxic

This is some good shit. Unlike the support set, Roserade can't switch into this one and threaten with Giga Drain / Sleep Powder / whatever - Earthquake and Ice Punch are clean KOs to 4 / 0 Roserade and likely KOs against 252 / 0 Roserade. Ice Punch has the same BP as Earthquake against Rosie, but could be useful against the occasional Shaymin. Ice Beam is for Tangrowth (which is 2hko'd) and also does more damage to Gligar than Ice Punch, but does less damage to Shaymin, Roserade, and most other grass types. If using Ice Beam run Brave obviously. Can set up stealth rock if you want, can also run Toxic to cripple Slowbro, Milotic, and Blastoise on the switch.

huh. that does look like a good set. not really sold on ice punch as the first slash though. do you think i should give it a set of its own (offensive tank) or mention it in the AC of the primary set?

To be honest, I feel like this is a better set than the "standard" mixpert in this metagame. With rosie being the top pokemon in the metagame, being able to threaten it with a KO instead of just inconveniencing it on the switch is very valuable. In addition, doing good damage to Blastoise is very important, since it would just love to come in on Swampert and spin away its rocks. The offensive set can 3hko or poison Blastoise, whereas the mixed set is like...a 6hko with leftovers.

You can put ice beam / ice punch in any order. I think Shaymin is more common than Tangrowth, but Ice Beam does only around 12% less damage anyway (38% average v 50% average) so I guess it would really come down to whether you like your speed or not.

FlareBlitz, i tested your set, and I much prefer it to the standard defensive one. I'm gonna make it the primary set, with a bulkier EV spread in the AC. Thanks!

There's no point running Ice Punch for Roserade, IMO. Earthquake does the same amount of damage.

so i should just leave ice punch out on all sets, and simply mention in OO that it's swampet's best move against shaymin? Shrang, do you apporve of putting FlareBlitz's set as the primary one?

It's good. Ice Beam does seem better (Gligar, Tangrowth, you're losing to Shaymin anyway), IMO, a Sassy nature is looking more attractive than an Adamant one so far.

imo cb is gonna want speed for bulky waters even if it compromises bulk. i would either go 200 (176 EVs) to beat min milotic and things that aim to beat it by a point or 208 (208 EVs) to beat min cune restalk variants by an extra point as well though they creep a lot for mirror match roars... this investment also covers empoleon generously so thats helpful

superpower is good in the fourth slot too

alright lads, updated the OP with all the suggestions. thanks a lot, i tested the new swamperts and they're way more effective. really like those speed EVs on the CB set, thanks badabing

Not sure why you'd need Ice Beam instead of Ice Punch on the tank set. Ice Punch hits harder even with the large difference in base power. Ice Beam hits Xatu a little harder but not a huge difference. Nobody uses Tangrowth.

I don't see what Avalanche could do for CB Pert. Its common targets, Shaymin / Zapdos / Xatu, will either just OHKO Swampert or Toxic it and have enough bulk to stall it out. The disappointing damage output on the switch is also pretty bad for a CB user. Move it to Other Options.

Teammates for CB Swampert should include standard spikes support as well as pokemon who can take on Grass-types and bulky Flying-types. Snorlax is a fine choice and Weavile can use its STAB Ice attacks to threaten the mentioned pokemon, but can't switch in easily.

updated with snunch's suggestions as well. i left out snorlax though, don't really see how he benefits from him as a teammate

I kinda miss a SubPunching set, it can deal a ton of damage thanks to Swaperts 110 Base Atk. Something around Sub, Focus Punch, Earthquake, Ice Punch should work pretty solid.

I'm kinda against that. Focus Punch and Earthquake both have similar super effective coverage, and a neutral Focus Punch is as strong as a neutral STAB Earthquake. Substitute would also take away from Swampert's nice bulk. I really don't see SubPunching as an effective strategy for this guy.

Cherub Agent said:

updated with snunch's suggestions as well. i left out snorlax though, don't really see how he benefits from him as a teammate

Click to expand...

You forgot to change Ice Beam to Ice Punch. Snorlax deserves special mention because it checks the tiers best grass types (Roserade, Shaymin) and Swampert can somewhat deal with a few of the Pokemon that trouble Snorlax (Superpower Darmanitan, Rhyperior, weak Hitmontop etc)