Rotom-W (Offensive) [QC 0/3]

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Pain Split
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Levitate
nature: Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spa / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

• Powerful and unexpected
• Tanking abilities with Pain Split
• Volt Switch can be used instead of Thunderbolt, but provides less staying power
• HP Ice is for the Dragons that resist your STABS
• HP Fire is solely for Ferrothorn, as Hydro Pump will be dealing loads of damage to both Scizor and Forretress
• Expert Belt can be used with Volt Switch to fake a choice set
• HP Grass is for Gastrodon, and that's it

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

• WoW can be used instead of Pain Split, but Tanking abilities are lost
• Lefties is always an option, although much less powerful
• Excels on Rain teams with STAB Thunder and Hydro Pump
• Both Thunderbolt and Volt switch can be used if one foregoes a Hidden Power
• Can actually hurt other Rotom-W's badly with Thunderbolt
• Things that can leave this set helpless: Ferrothorn, Blissey, Chansey, Celebi, Gastrodon
• Timid can be used for more speed, but the power drop is noticeable

Hidden Powers are listed incorrectly. Example of a correct format with Hidden Power:
[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Thunderbolt / Volt Switch
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Pain Split
item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
ability: Levitate
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 Spa / 252 Spe

On to the set itself, I haven't actually tested it yet, but I don't see what kind of advantages this has over other offensive Pokemon. It seems to be a waste when you can take advantage of Rotom's superb ability to abuse Choice items thanks to having Trick and Volt Switch in its movepool. Rotom's base 105 SpA and base 86 Speed are rather mediocre to run an all-out offensive set with Life Orb, especially when you consider that Rotom-W receives no stat-up moves and has no priority moves. Alakazam, Gengar, Infernape, Lucario, Mamoswine, and even Weavile if you want to dig down into UU perform better with Life Orb.

However, if this does manage to get past QC, I'd remove Expert Belt. Expert Belt is a terrible item competitively, and Pain Split is a dead giveaway that you are not a Choiced Rotom.

Why not just slash Life Orb on the main set?

Lucarorak, it's Rotom's bulkiness when compared to other similar Pokemon that make it exceptional. Also, his great resistances and immunities, when couples with his lack of significant weaknesses allow him to perform well mid- and early-game, a feat which many pokemon running a similar set only wish the could accomplish. In addition, Rotom can function like the LO tank Latias going through C&C right now, although with arguably better coverage for hitting things super effectively.
Also, in this metagame an 86+ speed isn't all that terrible, because it let's you outspeed many slower threats like Heatran, Politoed and Tyranitar. This is something that the standard defensive Rotom refuses to recognize, Rotom's potential for offensive prowess, and not just his balanced capabilities. Sir, this can apply to your reply aswell, why not to slash LO on the main set. It's because this and the standard play so differently. This is a 3 attack + recovery set lacking Volt Switch generally, and it also plays on Rotom's odd speed tier and his weather defeating capabilities, hitting many weather abusers for super-effective damage but being able to tank their hits and live within a reasonable margin after LO damage. Yes this set does have its counters, but don't all offensive sets?
Another thing I wanted to address was the Expert Belt. A set had been floating around for Rotom for some time, one with Expert Belt and HP Grass to beat Rotom's most common counter, Gastrodon. I decided that since that was technically an offensive set, but it didn't deserve its own set, to mention it.
I hope this cleared things up.

tl;dr: Use it as an offensive poke, not the standard Rotom.

Rotom-W's 107/107 defenses are effectively canceled out by Rotom's shitty HP, at least on this set. Most powerful neutral hits can OHKO or 2HKO Rotom-W.

252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 97.93% - 114.46% (Adamant). Guaranteed OHKO after SR.
252 Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 88.43% - 104.55% (Jolly). Guaranteed OHKO after SR.
252 +1 Atk Dragonite Outrage vs 4 HP/0 Def Rotom-W: 128.93% - 151.65%. Guaranteed OHKO.

I'm focusing on the last calc. Timid Scarf Rotom would outspeed and OHKO that Dragonite with HP Ice, assuming Multiscale is broken.

That bulk is also wasted away when the Pokemon's only reliable recovery is Pain Split. With Pain Split as the only way for Rotom-W to recover, it will get worn down by Life Orb recoil quickly. If you absolutely insist on using the Pain Split + LO combination, Gengar does it better due to having access to the Ghost+Fighting coverage, freeing up a spot for Substitute, blocking status and making Pain Split more effective. Gengar is also loads faster than Rotom-W, allowing it to actually use Pain Split before the other Pokemon kills it.

I'm sorry, but I still don't see the merit of this set. It also doesn't operate too much differently from the defensive set, if the intent is to take hits and fire back, so a better choice would be to slash Life Orb on the second set on the analysis. Even that isn't a good option, as by losing Choice Scarf/Specs, it will really notice the loss of Trick to cripple walls and great revenge killing/damage output, respectively.

Also, FYI, the defensive Rotom-W set is no longer the standard. The standard is now the Choice set.

Yea, I agree with Sir. I don't think that this plays differently enough from the "Defensive" set on site to warrant a new analysis.

this set really does play differently though, using speed instead of bulk and having staying power instead of Defensive. It also has three attacking options, letting it do something to Dragonite besides an inaccurate WoW. Thunderbolt is also much more noticeably powerful than Volt Switch, other Rotom's Volt Switches won't 2HKO this one. Instead, this Offensive set can 2HKO another Rotom-W with ease. The defensive set is also walled by many things, like Gastrodon or Ferrothorn. This set really isn't like the Defensive one, well, because it's offensive.

EDIT: I've done some testing and I think Substitute deserves a slash i n the fourth slot, although I am going to test it more.

The standard Rotom-W set isn't even that defensive; it hits really hard. Bluffing a Choice Scarf is really the only thing this set has over its defensive counterpart, but Expert Belt isn't even the main slash (people will know you're not scarfed after you switch moves to use Volt Switch anyway). This set really doesn't help Rotom-W beat its common counters either; the main draw of Pokemon such as Expert Belt Flygon was that it could roast Pokemon such as Skarmory with ease. The defensive set already has the option of running Hidden Power Fire to beat Ferrothorn. Blissey still beats this set 1 on 1, and you can't beat Dragonite, Ferrothorn, and Gastrodon at the same time.

You provide a good argument, but if the defensive set isn't defensive, why is it called so?

Tested this set...it surprised me quite a bit. However can you let me know why Modest isn't the main slash? Most Pokemon that this set can beat are slower than max Speed Modest Rotom-w (Heatran, Politoed, Dragonite etc..also other Rotom outspeeding you mean that they will be either choiced), and even if you use Tmid the only advantage is that you get to outspeed Acrobatics SD Gliscor who really isn't too big of a threat. Modest lets you ohko Dragonite with Expert Belt when Nite doesn't have multiscale hence you need a few percentage of prior damage on it first. Yes Life Orb provides alot more benefits than Expert Belt since I think it is safe to say enough people use E.Belt for other players to be wary...but it still can do with a secondary slash like you've done.

Hope this goes through..its a great set.

Thanks, I'll try Modest in a few battles to see if it really is that good, but I probably will make it the main slash.

Bumping, this hasn't had a lot of love from QC

Sub is a nice idea for scouting moves, but judging from the EV spread, I wouldn't really call it defensive, and LucaroarkZ's damage calcs support it. I also think you can afford to slash in Will-O-Wisp in on a Hidden Power slot so you can burn physical threats from behind the sub.

@Black Rain: I really don't think WoW is the best idea on this set. The point of this is to hit hard and either heal with Pain Split or block with Sub. WoW kills all momentum this set would gain by using three attacking moves instead of two. Thank you for the suggestion though

I've tried this set out for a test-drive (Modest, Life Orb, HP Fire), and although the Life Orb boost did made a large difference in its damage output, it also caused Rotom-W to die quickly, ending its contribution after taking down a mon or 2. Pain Split really doesn't help too much, especially since it's so prone to revenge-killing.

Here's a log of one of my battles. Perhaps I'm not supporting your set correctly? You be the judge. In any case, some concrete evidence from your side may be necessary to justify this set.

http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Heaven-Wolf-vs-Smiles--2012-02-05-1

Note: I'm Heaven Wolf

Pocket, it's not that you're not supporting it correctly, but this set is meant to stay in as opposed to the other Rotom-W sets. And you're right, this set doesn't have the longevity of the others, but to make use of this set you need to make use of its staying power.

You should mention Toxic in the AC for the 4th slot. It is excellent for saying a big fuck you to Gastrodon, even if you don't carry HP Grass and also screws any Jellicent that thinks it can Recover back while you use Volt-Switch. Finally all the dragons that tend to switch into Rotom-W (see Lati@s, Hydreigon) hate Toxic much more than WoW.

Btw i have been using a set of Volt-Switch, HP Fire, Hydro Pump and Toxic with Expert Belt and a spread of 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe with a Modest nature, and it has been working fantastic 'till now!

EDIT: Also lowering the Speed evs to reach 252 Speed is something to consider. This way you outspeed max Speed Jolly Scizor, but also gain an ok amount of bulk. This is especially good if you are running Expert Belt, since with LO your bulk would be lost in each attack anyway...

With this speed, you fail to outspeed + Max Politoed and Brelloom, Max Toxicroak, Max Gyarados, Max Mamoswine and Dragonite and + Max Heatran. Most of those pokes would never switch into Rotom-W or attempt to RK it, such as Politoed, Gyarados, Mamoswine and Heatran (only the S.Defensive would stay in and you outspeed this). So the pokes that are left are max speed Jolly Brelloom, which is nonexistent, Dragonite and Toxicroak.
So the only important pokes that you fail to outspeed are Offensive DDNite and SD Toxicroak.

Food for thought, let's see what the QC members will say...

alexwolf the set you mentioned is more akin to the Expert Belt set written here by Lightz911. I am also beginning to believe that Expert Belt may be the better item of choice, but it's too early to make a conclusion.

JellyOs, do you have any logs / replay of this set in action?

I've recently done alot of testing on this set, dozens of battles per day under different alts and I do think it's safe to say that Expert Belt may be the better option. The metagame has changed since I've posted this in C&C so if the person running Expert Belt wants to take some of these ideas, he should go for it. But I've also noticed that the Expert Belt set hasn't been touched in a while so I'd be willing to take that over and change this to it. Or I could keep this set's title and label it offensive and make Expert Belt the main slash. I'm fine with any of these options.

signal beam!

@uraga, I do believe that's on the Expert Belt analysis

Yea, QC mates and I have talked about this set a couple of times, and although the LO boost is handy, we came to the conclusion that Rotom-W is better off doing its usual Volt Switching than staying put and forfeiting momentum after a kill. This Rotom-W also wears down quickly, despite Pain Split, and is prone to getting removed prematurely from my experience.

We still haven't really talked over the Expert Belt set proposed by Lightz yet.

Thanks for your patience, JellyOs, and for not neglecting your set. Unfortunately, I can't approve this from what I've seen and discussed.

QC Rejected

I've been on the fence about this for a while now, but I'm just going to say that I'd prefer the staying power of the standard Rotom-W on-site. Even without the extra 30% boost, there are many offensive threats, such as Celebi, Gengar, and even Rotom-W, who do just fine attacking without it, and on Rotom-W, it's sort of a lesser option.

I apologize for the time taken to reach a decision on this. Rejected.

Can this be moved?

moving to L&O