Desert of Doom

Desert of Doom
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I’ve been playing with stall for about 6 months now. First I tried weatherless stall, it was fun, but rain stall seemed better with Chansey abuse. I ran rain stall for the longest time, but eventually it became total shit. Why you ask? Volt-turn, a well planned volt turn team can pretty much demolish any rain stall team, which eventually became the dominant play style of OU, so I was forced to look elsewhere. Sand-stall looked the most solid, as sandstorm could screw over even leftovers rotom and sandstorm just being there allowed out right beat Pokemon like Salamence and Dragonite.​

Like most of my teams, it peaked in the 1300s, hopefully some rmt tweaking can get it higher, but as always my main problem is my play style.​

I would like to give a shout out to Kalamadude for his Sanctuary! rmt. I was also influenced by quite a few other stall rmts; I apologize that I can not think of the names of them.​

The team theme is adventure time I suppose; to be honest I am just an adventure time freak and name all my Pokemon after characters... The desert of doom is a desert in the show that Finn travels through because he thinks all the robbers would be on the safe path, by his logic, as opposed to the path notorious with thieves.[/adventure time rant]​
At Glance
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I try to get people to think I lead with Hippowdon, which I don't, it is just for psychological effect that is all.​

Team Building
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First up was the weather abuser. I read an article on Smogon that suggested that both might work to keep the weather up at all times. So I was like why the hell not and did it. Note the Tyranitar picture isn't up there yet.​
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Blissey was an almost natural choice as Tyranitar solved 90% of Blissey's special problems. Plus it is a stall team, what good stall team doesn't have Blissey? A few, but I am lazy.​
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Skarmory was a rather odd choice, but together Skarmory + Hippowdon solve almost all physical threats, another big reason Skarmory was chosen was the ability to set up, phase, and it's steel typing to take u-turns like a pro. Oh yeah Skarm-Bliss is cool, that actually happened by accident.​
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For the next 2 Pokemon I wanted something to spin and deal with Rotom, the choice was basically between Tentacruel + Celebi, Forretress + Roserade, and Forretress + Celebi. Much testing was done, and in the end Tentacruel was never stable enough to spin, or Forretress was the choice to spin. Celebi was a godsend for its ability to escape Tyranitar and take on fighting types, something which slips through Hippowdon + Skarmory.​
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Finally I finalized tyranitar, for the longest time I doubted Tyranitar's usefulness on the team, it became a bit more useful to check things when I slapped a choice scarf on its neck, but it still seemed off. Recently I tried out Scizor > Tyranitar, thinking it dealt with Reunicles and such better. What was the problem? Once I did that Blissey was forced to use seismic toss over flamethrower because of heatran, instantly my rating dropped over 100 points that is how godly flamethrower is. That and 3 steel types made Magnezone one happy camper.

In Depth

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Finn (
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) (M) @
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Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic Spikes
- Volt Switch

Why this pokemon?
Probably the first Pokemon you will see in a match, if not this then Tyranitar. Forretress has 2 purposes on this team: 1. Set up stealth rocks/toxic spikes 2. Get rid of other hazards. Occasionally I use it to beat down dragon types, and sometimes check things with sturdy. That might seem like a short list, but it is of the most up most importance to this team. As stealth rocks is literally my key to victory 90% of the time, while opposing hazards are a bitch.

Moves:
-Stealth rock: very important, this team forces so much switching, and does so little offensive damage, that for this team its almost as important as a sweeper on an offensive team. Without stealth rocks many offensive Pokemon would just eat this team.
-Rapid Spin: almost as important as stealth rocks, although this team isn't too weak to stealth rocks, but hazard staking can take it's toll. Hazards are particulary deadly on offensive teams not because they make KOs, but because I switch like every other turn when I face them.
-Toxic Spikes: admittedly it is lesser used, but it can be pivotal against facing other stall teams, and killing Sableye. Sometimes it is ever more important than stealth rocks, sometimes.
-Volt Switch: Mainly for Gyarados to be honest, it also helps to scout a bit I guess... who am I kidding, this is for Gyarados.

Evs and Nature and Item:

With 3 specially defensive pokemon on this team, one of them being Blissey, I don't need special defense investment on this thing. That extra bit in physical defense helps me out a lot too. Leftovers > shed shell because usually if I am facing magnezone, the team lacks stealth rocks anyway for me to spin, that and it it really useful to gain a bit of health back when switching into hazards, extending it's durability. So mag doesn't really hurt Forretress's usefulness, much and against everything else I need leftovers. So come at me Magnezone, I got nothing to fear but fear itself.


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Lady (
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Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Ice Fang

Why this Pokemon?
Hippowdon was a natural choice for a sand stall team, what I didn't realize has how effective it is. Is Scafty, Toxicroak, or Lucario sweeping you, use this thing! Hippowdon gives no shits about ice punch unlike its weaker cousin Gliscor, not only does it counter then but it also phases them out easily. Pretty much any pokemon that gives Skamory problems, Hippowdon walls. It is also a pretty solid attacking force with its base 112 attack, and the ability to phase things is also great for stalling.​

Moves:
-Earthquake: hippowdon's oblagary stab, don't leave home without it
-Slack off: recovery to heal up after those boosted hits
-Whirlwind + Ice Fang: usually when you see Hippowdon it carries stealth rock, why do people do that? (Fun fact alert) Literally every Pokemon on this team can learn stealth rock. Hippowdon does not need stealth rock, not only does it not need stealth rock, it is better off without it. Whirlwind phases out like everything, and ice fang is for those punks that think they can switch in for free because they think my only move is earthquake, such as Latios, Landorus, Gliscor, Dragonite, and others. Note that it's whirlwind, not roar, because without stealth rocks, I can use that, fuck you Mr. Mime.​

Evs, Nature and Item:
Hippowdon is a physical wall, it needs physical defense. Anyone who suggests special defense doesn't know what they are talking about. Hippowdon comes too close to death for too many Pokemon, like Terrakion for example, with the current defenses, I am not decreasing them to take some silly hidden powers better.​

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Bubblegum (
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Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

Why this pokemon?
Blissey walls pretty much all the special attackers, so that eliminates pretty much half the okemon this team has to deal with. What does Blissey do on this team? Obviously it walls them, this is stall silly. I suppose it also provides wish support and status absorption too. Mainly Blissey’s ability to force almost any special attacker out, is what makes it so effective on this team.​

Moves:
-Flamethrower: No, the reason this is here is not to roast Scizor, it was actually here first to kill Gengar. But over time I realized it does more that that, it kills Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Skamory, which otherwise manhandle this team. I thought that use to be trival, but then I took and arrow to the knee used seismic toss to deal with heatran when I used Scizor, never again do I plan to whirlwind swept by a skarmory faster than mine.
-Toxic: cripples Pokemon who think they can switch into Blissey all them want like Haxorous for example. Toxic spikes can't also get out either, so I need it to face against special sweepers like Volcanora and Celebi.
-Protect+Wish: I can't tell you how many times this move has saved me, another turn or sandstall + toxic can really kill a Pokemon. Also if I use wish, it is pretty much a requirement to heal it's self and other members(mainly Forretress who has no recovery).​

Evs, Nature and Item:
252 Def and Bold keeps it from being raped by pursuit, as it literally doubles its physical defensiveness. The rest goes to maximize it's specail defense to take special hits a lot better, which is what Blissey has mainly on its mind.​

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Marceline (
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Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Spikes

Why this pokemon?
It is the premier physical wall, with a steel typing, plus Blissey on the same team + ??? = profit. The biggest perk it has it taking 0 shits from Scizor while at the same time being not weak from stealth rock (I’m looking at you Gyarados). Being able to whrilwind threats with ease even if they have a sub is great too, spikes support is cool I guess, it helps take down Scizor. This think acts as a secondary wall for physical attacks which might break through Hippowdon.​

Moves:
Ok honestly this is the standard Skamory set, you should know what it does. Super short version: brave bird kills shit, whirl wind phases, spikes makes stalling a bit easier, roost heals.​

Evs, Nature and Item:
Much like Hippowdon it needs its physical defensiveness to do what it does best, wall physical attackers. If it wasn't for Skarmory vs. Skarmory whirlwind wars, I would definantly use maximum defense, but everyone uses 24 speed, so I am forced to outspeed them or atleast tie them. I think a memo should go out to all Skarmory users that outspeeding wob is not important, so we can all get our bit physical defensiveness back and only need to speed creep around 4 or 8 speed. Overall I find leftovers more important against most people to heal back a bit of extra damage from stealth rocks. But Magnezone can be a bitch, but Hippowdon deals with most physical Pokemon just find if I need it to, with Skarmory hiding in the corner in fear of the MAGNE-ZONE.​
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LSP (
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Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 196 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Giga Drain
- HP Fire
- Recover

Why this pokemon?
Celebi is my baby it is the key to my victory against volt-turn, without it Rotom would run amuk all over my team. Besides that, Celebi is useful for dealing with fighting types that may sometimes break through Skarmory/Hippowdon like Conkeldurr and Breloom. Also I use it to take choice band close combats when I need it too from time to time. Celebi also deals with Jellicent, which otherwise would be a pain for this team. Celebi is pretty much the glue which holds this team together.​

Moves:
-Perish Song: Allows me to easily kills that last pokemon which resisted by efforts to stall it, usually there is one on every thing, weither it be Reunicles or some defensive pokemon with a recovery more. It also makes an additional check/counter against Reunicles.
-Giga drain: my main attacking move, very useful against bulky waters.
-HP Fire: roasts scizor and ferrothorn, ferrothorn is a big problem so killing it is vital, killing scizor breaks volt turn
-Recover: as the toll of battle wears down my little pixie it needs to gather its strength from time to time to fight another day​

Evs, Nature, and Item:
First off the speed evs insure that baton pass will work on all tyranitars bar scarf ones, also it outspeeds a bunch of other pokemon right around that area. Next the evs lean more towards special defense to take 2 choice specs Rotom HP fire/fire in the sandstorm, factoring in stealth rocks damage. The rest of the evs are put into defensive investment to take physical hits just a bit better.​
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Jake (
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Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Stealth Rock

Why this pokemon?
Back when I first used this team, all Tyranitar did was exist as fodder unless I saw a Reunicles, Latios, Latias, or Alakazam. So I slapped on a choice scarf so it can check some Pokemon and do those things, which makes it a bit more useful I guess. Also I use it to counter Heatran, and ironically other Tyranitars. Tyranitar in general is useful for taking down those off beat Pokemon or sets designed to take down stall, like Mew for example.​

Moves:
-Crunch: good stab for hitting just about anything hard, it is used mainly for psychic types that think they can stay on on this monster, but it is also a solid attack move
-Pursuit: So I trap and kill the various annoying Pokemon for this team such as Latios, Latias, and Reunicles. Sometimes it is a flip of the coin deal with choosing the move vs. crunch, but usually it leaves them weak enough so I can pick them off with something else even if I fail.
-Superpower: fighting has excellent coverage, so I can just fire these babies off with little worry, I am scarfed so I will have to switch anyway, it is a great hit and run move for Tyranitar.
-Stealth Rock: ok scarf, why the hell is stealth rock on a CHOICE SCARF Tyranitar, no only does Forretress have it, but it is a CHOICE SCARF Tyranitar. Ill tell you why, first off stone edge is shit, I literally never used it, ever. Also stealth rocks are so important to this team another Pokemon to get it up is great, it also takes a little pressure off Forretress. The rest of my name should give you the answer.​

Evs, Nature and Item:
Max speed to outspeed things, and max speed to kill said things. Maximum speed is necessary to speed tie fellow scarf Tyranitars, as with dragon dance brethren.​
Threats

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Specially Defensive Heatran
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Might be an odd threat, but it is a bit of one. Usually I send in Tyranitar, gets burnt, fuck. Luckily Heatran can be taken down slowly with stealth rocks damage otherwise. If I need to, Hippowdon can take a weak lava plume, and 1HKO with earthquake.​

Chesto-Rest Volcarona
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Does it sweep this team? Yes it does. Fortunately, no one uses it anymore.
Edit: after actually meeting one (it took almost 100 battles) it wasn't as deadly as I thought. Blissey will still toxic it before it dies, and then I just sack pokemon until it dies. Not exactly the best solution, but it's not worth making any changes for.​

Gyrados (Taunt and/or Bounce)
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Probably my single biggest threat actually, it easily breaks through Skamory. Honestly my only hope is stealth rocks + sandstorm and maybe a few hits from Skarmory to take it down. That is the game plan anyway, rarely does it work unfortunately.
Edit: With volt switch, much less of a problem.​

Infernape
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I am forced to check with Tyranitar, otherwise I have to go with good ol stallin, probably lose a few pokemon in the process.​
Magnezone
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While rarely a threat alone, it takes out Skarmory which leaves me open to a Haxorus sweep, fortunately the only one that can sweep me outright is swords dance, that is uncommon and I can check with Tyranitar if I need to.​
Salamence
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Stealth rocks + sandstorm usually takes it down quickly, can be a bitch in the sun if properly supported though. Against good players I will always lose a Pokemon do to my shitty prediction.
Edit: Holy shit as of recent the scarf versions totally fuck me over.​
Cloyster
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Possibly the biggest reason my rating doesn't get past a certain point is this thing, all the fucking noobs use it. -24 hurts a lot. I can beat it via sanstorm + stealth rocks, and using skamory has the highlander in the face is defeat, but it leaves massive holes in my team though, that is if I can stop it.​
Sableye/Mew
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Hopefully they don't lead with it, so I can set up toxic spikes and stall it out, otherwise its an ass long battle that I usually lose. Mew on the other hand can be trapped by Tyranitar, which is excellent. These 2 pokemon are the reasons I am considering toxic on Forretress.​
Alakazam
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Calm mind versions are a bitch to deal with, I can't even check with with Tyranitar. This and Heatran make me think seismic toss > flamethrower.
Others
I am sure there are a few other Pokemon that easily break through this team, mostly mixed attackers or surprise pokemon. Off hand I can thing of some such as mixed Kyurem, mixed Hydregion, mixed Venusaur, and nasty plot Lucario. I don't really worry about them though.​
Exported to Text
For those creapers that want to use my team for some reason...
Lady (Hippowdon) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Whirlwind
- Ice Fang

Bubblegum (Blissey) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Wish
- Protect
- Flamethrower

LSP (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 24 Def / 196 SDef / 36 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Giga Drain
- Recover
- Psychic

Marceline (Skarmory) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Spikes
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Jake (Tyranitar) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Stealth Rock

Finn (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock
Changes/Testing
I am actually open to all suggestions here. I don't think I can get a team to cover everything, but patching up a few weaknesses would be great, as long as full stall is kept a theme. I would like to keep Hippowdon if possible though. Unlike m past rmts I actually plan on keeping up with it and stuff.​

Changes:
-Gyroball < volt switch on Forretress
-Baton Pass < Perish Song on Celebi
-HP fire < psychic on Celebi

Testing(bold what I am currently testing):
-shed shell > leftovers
-stone edge > stealth rock
-Heatran > Blissey
-Landorus > Tyranitar
-Terrakion > Tyranitar + Perish Song Celebi
-Donphan + Roserade + ??? > Forretress + Hippowdon + Celebi
-a spin blocker (I went for Sableye)
-Shake it up's Blissey
-Scizor > Tyranitar

BTW: I haven't had time to fully check this for spelling / sentences making sense errors, so if you see a few, I would appreciate it if you sent them over PM or something.
 
Since you don't use Gyro Ball much on Forry why not replace it with Volt Switch to gain switch advantage and possibly escape magnezone?
 
Alright nice team. First things first, I would change Skarmory's item to Shed Shell, it's pretty "unacceptable". The loss of Lefties recovery does hurt, but it makes it vastly easier to win against teams that rely on Magenezone to take out Skarm. Those teams that do rely on Mag to trap have a hell of a time, and (pretty much) guaranteeing a win over 8% teams used in OU is enough to warrant it as a choice.

Most of the threats that you mentioned below can all be handled by Choice Scarf Landorus very nicely. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is in my eyes the weak link of the team. Scarf Landorus fits right in onto a Sand team and can fill the same rolls as Tyranitar. Make sure to use HP Ice for Scarf Landorus though, since in my experience running a team very similar to this, Taunt-SD Gliscor is going to give you trouble. Scarf Landorus will be able to beat, or at least dent, the versions of Latios that Blissey can't beat. You will miss out on the double SR, but double SR (imo) rarely gets used. He can be a pretty good lead to start off on the right foot with U-turn.

Sableye is a tough nut to crack, but running Toxic will not alleviate your problem since he will be able to Taunt before the Toxic. Even then, there could be a cleric in tow. Your best bet would be to carry a Fire type. Sp. Heatran could be used, but that would leave you more open to some of the threats already listed. To handle Sableye, I would recommend at the beginning of the game switch between Blissey and Celebi until he switches out (beginning means no hazards were set by the opponent). When he switches out, eventually find a way to set up T-Spikes.

Those are my suggestions. The cool thing that I would say that you could try out is Sand Veil Donphan over Hippowdon. They would provide very similar roles, but he would replace Forry as your Rapid Spinner (wish support is the same). In the free team slot you can find a more reliable Toxic Spiker (i.e. Roserade, but she is very similar to Celebi), one that is Poison type to soak up T-Spikes Donphan can't.

Overall great team, it hard to patch up a stall team, but he have most major threats covered.
Shed Shell>Lefties
Choice Scarf Landorus:

Landorus (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sand Force
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

Potentially Donphan>Hippo with different Toxic Spiker other than Forretress.
 
Good team bro, I remember when you showed me this team when we were comparing our sand stalls.

I don't have many other suggestions except to remove Stealth Rock on Tyranitar and replace it with Stone Edge. Right now your team appears weak to Volcarona since the only thing that can stand in its way of sweeping is Blissey. Stone Edge will also help you pick off threats like Dragonite and Gyrarados. I know that you already said why you don't use Stone Edge, but it doesn't look like Stealth Rock is any better since that isn't a move you really want to lock yourself into.

I also use Specially Defensive Heatran instead of Blissey sometimes to help with some Volcarona and Sableye.

Good luck! :)
 
Just a note: You currently have Whirlwind listed on Hippowdon instead of Roar.

Also, there is no way that Stealth Rock can be the right move on Tyranitar. Looking through the threats you list, Stone Edge seems it would be incredibly beneficial.
 
Since you don't use Gyro Ball much on Forry why not replace it with Volt Switch to gain switch advantage and possibly escape magnezone?

The problem is on occasion I do use it to fight off dragons or Terrakion, although yes, it is something to test.

Alright nice team. First things first, I would change Skarmory's item to Shed Shell, it's pretty "unacceptable". The loss of Lefties recovery does hurt, but it makes it vastly easier to win against teams that rely on Magenezone to take out Skarm. Those teams that do rely on Mag to trap have a hell of a time, and (pretty much) guaranteeing a win over 8% teams used in OU is enough to warrant it as a choice.

Magnezone is annoying, I guess it might be worth it... Why not test it.

Most of the threats that you mentioned below can all be handled by Choice Scarf Landorus very nicely. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is in my eyes the weak link of the team. Scarf Landorus fits right in onto a Sand team and can fill the same rolls as Tyranitar. Make sure to use HP Ice for Scarf Landorus though, since in my experience running a team very similar to this, Taunt-SD Gliscor is going to give you trouble. Scarf Landorus will be able to beat, or at least dent, the versions of Latios that Blissey can't beat. You will miss out on the double SR, but double SR (imo) rarely gets used. He can be a pretty good lead to start off on the right foot with U-turn.

I am a bit hesistant to switch Tyranitar for Landorus because it will make it that much harder to go against Latios and friends. Although it does get rid of most of my other threats, so I am still considering it (even if it require stone edge's shit accuracy).
Sableye is a tough nut to crack, but running Toxic will not alleviate your problem since he will be able to Taunt before the Toxic. Even then, there could be a cleric in tow. Your best bet would be to carry a Fire type. Sp. Heatran could be used, but that would leave you more open to some of the threats already listed. To handle Sableye, I would recommend at the beginning of the game switch between Blissey and Celebi until he switches out (beginning means no hazards were set by the opponent). When he switches out, eventually find a way to set up T-Spikes.

Interesting advice, I will do this.

Those are my suggestions. The cool thing that I would say that you could try out is Sand Veil Donphan over Hippowdon. They would provide very similar roles, but he would replace Forry as your Rapid Spinner (wish support is the same). In the free team slot you can find a more reliable Toxic Spiker (i.e. Roserade, but she is very similar to Celebi), one that is Poison type to soak up T-Spikes Donphan can't.

A very interesting suggestion to say the least, it would open up another team member so I am really looking into it, but because of how expansive that change is, I am testing it last.
I don't have many other suggestions except to remove Stealth Rock on Tyranitar and replace it with Stone Edge. Right now your team appears weak to Volcarona since the only thing that can stand in its way of sweeping is Blissey. Stone Edge will also help you pick off threats like Dragonite and Gyrarados. I know that you already said why you don't use Stone Edge, but it doesn't look like Stealth Rock is any better since that isn't a move you really want to lock yourself into.
Stone edge doesn't really help me out much against Gyrados or Volcanora, but I admit stealth rock is kinda silly. Will re-test.
I also use Specially Defensive Heatran instead of Blissey sometimes to help with some Volcarona and Sableye.
This has been at the back of my mind actually, I will look into it.
 
I have a question for you, how does this fare as a stall team when any team with a spinner can remove your primary source of damage in a single turn? I'm not trying to be a douche or anything I'm actually asking, most every stall team I've ever seen has a spinblocker of some sort. Perhaps jellicent could fit in over tyranitar? jellicent could still beat heatran very well as well as give you a great way to fight off Volcarona.
 
Hello my friend,

I would like to make a couple of suggestions that can help improve your team. First of all, after looking at your threat list, an easy fix to many of the pokes you listed would be a choice scarf Terrakion set. A move set consisting of Stone Edge / Close Combat / X-Scissor / Rock Slide and with 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd and a Jolly nature would suffice. This easily lets you revenge Gyarados, Volcarona, Heatran, Magnezone, Salamence and many more thanks to Terrakions excellent speed. You should replace Tyranitar with this set...

Second thing I noticed is that your team, just like many stall teams, is incredibly weak to CM Reuniclus. A quick fix for this would be to replace Baton Pass with Perish Song on Celebi. You lose the ability to scout but in the long run, this should serve you well and proove to be more useful... best of luck with the team.

Olympus.
 
Hey there.

First off, change your Blissey's EV spread to 164 HP / 252 Def / 92 Spe. Investment in Special Defense isn't really necessary since Blissey has such high Special Defense already, so investing in HP is the better option, as it lets Blissey take both physical and special hits much better. 92 Speed EVs are crucial, as they let Blissey outrun standard CB Scizor, thus allowing you to destroy it with Flamethrower before it can hit you. This is very important since Volt-Turn cores will cause you major problems otherwise.

Now, switch your Celebi to a Nasty Plot variant. This will provide your team with some much needed offense, and thanks to the entry hazard support that your team has, Celebi will be able to sweep much more easily. This Celebi will also become a much more dangerous threat to Rain-teams; Nasty Plot and Giga Drain will let it destroy opposing Tyranitars anyway, especially since Celebi can easily take a Pursuit. Blissey can take out Scizor with Flamethrower, eliminating another threat in Celebi's path as well. Simply switch the EV spread to 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spe and run a Modest nature. Also, replace Baton Pass with Nasty Plot and run Earth Power over Recover. You have a Rapid Spinner as is, so entry hazards won't be crippling Celebi. Wish support in tandem with the recovery that can be provided by Giga Drain alone makes the loss of Recover not as much of a problem. Earth Power will allow Celebi to score a surprise kill on one of the biggest threats to your team: Heatran. It also provides Celebi with more coverage in general, allowing it to sweep much more easily.

Finally, run Volt Switch over Gyro Ball on Forretress. This will definitely help with your Gyarados weakness, and allow Forretress to provide your team with ever-useful momentum. Gyro Ball doesn't really help your team very much regardless; threats like Landorus, which it hits relatively hard, can always be beaten by your other Pokemon. Also, run a Shed Shell on Skarmory. This will essentially cure your weakness to DragMag teams; the Wish support provided by Blissey mitigates the lack of recovery anyway.

Solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
 
A few notes.

As some have stated before me, get volt switch on forretress especially if using him as a lead. Much better than gyro ball.

Drop Stealth rock on tyranitar and give it to something else. Tyranitar is possibly the worst member you could give it to, no offense. I might also be tempted to switch crunch out for fire blast to kill switching in scizor or destroy ferrothorn, who sets up spikes pretty much for free on the team.

If you're afraid of pursuit tyranitar with celebi, why not take HP fighting, or at least u-turn.

Your team could really use a spin-blocker I think, but I haven't played it so maybe it's not a problem. But currently, starmie looks like he has an easy time on this team as not even blissey can touch it even if it doesn't run recover.
 
I have a question for you, how does this fare as a stall team when any team with a spinner can remove your primary source of damage in a single turn? I'm not trying to be a douche or anything I'm actually asking, most every stall team I've ever seen has a spinblocker of some sort. Perhaps jellicent could fit in over tyranitar? jellicent could still beat heatran very well as well as give you a great way to fight off Volcarona.


Spinners lack a recovery move, so after 3 or 4 times of switching in and spinning, they die. A spin blocker would be appreciated, but this team has bigger fish to fry.

Hello my friend,

I would like to make a couple of suggestions that can help improve your team. First of all, after looking at your threat list, an easy fix to many of the pokes you listed would be a choice scarf Terrakion set. A move set consisting of Stone Edge / Close Combat / X-Scissor / Rock Slide and with 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd and a Jolly nature would suffice. This easily lets you revenge Gyarados, Volcarona, Heatran, Magnezone, Salamence and many more thanks to Terrakions excellent speed. You should replace Tyranitar with this set...

Second thing I noticed is that your team, just like many stall teams, is incredibly weak to CM Reuniclus. A quick fix for this would be to replace Baton Pass with Perish Song on Celebi. You lose the ability to scout but in the long run, this should serve you well and proove to be more useful... best of luck with the team.

Olympus.


Tyranitar generally deals with Reunicles well, but Celebi with perish song would work more nicely, it would also allow be to deal with calm mind Jirachi better. Terrakion is in the same boat as Landorus for checking, I plan on testing them both.

Hey there.

First off, change your Blissey's EV spread to 164 HP / 252 Def / 92 Spe. Investment in Special Defense isn't really necessary since Blissey has such high Special Defense already, so investing in HP is the better option, as it lets Blissey take both physical and special hits much better. 92 Speed EVs are crucial, as they let Blissey outrun standard CB Scizor, thus allowing you to destroy it with Flamethrower before it can hit you. This is very important since Volt-Turn cores will cause you major problems otherwise.
The thing is, I don't NEED to outspeed scizor, ever. It just flat out dies to stealth rock damage. Blissey actually needs its special defense to do what it does best, I don't need nor want extra physical defense, it has all it needs.
Now, switch your Celebi to a Nasty Plot variant. This will provide your team with some much needed offense, and thanks to the entry hazard support that your team has, Celebi will be able to sweep much more easily. This Celebi will also become a much more dangerous threat to Rain-teams; Nasty Plot and Giga Drain will let it destroy opposing Tyranitars anyway, especially since Celebi can easily take a Pursuit. Blissey can take out Scizor with Flamethrower, eliminating another threat in Celebi's path as well. Simply switch the EV spread to 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spe and run a Modest nature. Also, replace Baton Pass with Nasty Plot and run Earth Power over Recover. You have a Rapid Spinner as is, so entry hazards won't be crippling Celebi. Wish support in tandem with the recovery that can be provided by Giga Drain alone makes the loss of Recover not as much of a problem. Earth Power will allow Celebi to score a surprise kill on one of the biggest threats to your team: Heatran. It also provides Celebi with more coverage in general, allowing it to sweep much more easily.

While an interesting suggestion, I don't feel that a sweeping Celebi really fit the stalling style I have going on here. I do like the synergy going on here though with the suggestion you had. If I ever make a balanced team again, that will be something I seriously consider.

A few notes.
If you're afraid of pursuit tyranitar with celebi, why not take HP fighting, or at least u-turn.

Your team could really use a spin-blocker I think, but I haven't played it so maybe it's not a problem. But currently, starmie looks like he has an easy time on this team as not even blissey can touch it even if it doesn't run recover.

U-turn requires me to predict when Tyranitar will come in, I don't have that. I ran HP fighting in the past, it doesn't kill Tyranitar, it just maims it.

After repeated switching into hazards and sandstorm damage, Starmie goes down, it is also completely walled by Blissey and Celebi.
 
Ok I tested the shit out of this team here is how your suggestions went:

-Forretress using volt turn was great, I kept that
-Heatran did not work in Blissey's place at all, the lack of recovery on my main special wall was a no go.
-I's sorry was stone edge is shit, stealth rock though and through proved to be a better option. Although I plan on testing other moves over it, such as fire punch soon.
-Magezone is pretty uncommon, and leftovers was much needed against those volt-turn teams, and pretty much everything in general. So I kept leftovers.
-Terrakion (with perish song on Celebi) was interesting, it worked better than most of these, but not well enough. The key loss was countering trick Latios. It was pretty good though, I might retest it at some point. I didn't test Landorus because Terrakion on paper was better.
-For those who said to use a spin blocker, I actually tested that. I used Sableye over Tyranitar for quite some time. It was pretty decent, but overall it lacked the power I needed in Tyranitars place.
-I did get time to test Roserade and Donphan. Overall it wasn't good, Celebi was much wanted on this team for a variety of things. But I did like Donphan on the team, so I am continueing testing him in Forretresses place. Mainly for his ability to kill over Forretress (I am using the offensive rapid spin version). I am not putting it on quite yet though.

Other random things I am testing are earthquake on Forretress, and earth power on Celebi for heatran. Gengar useage has dropped signifigantly, so I might go back to seismic toss on Blissey.
 
You already know that I feel perish song has more merit than baton pass on your celebi, and I really urge you to switch to it soley for the reason that Reuniclus is a huge threat to this team. Only Tyranitar can beat standard CM reun and it's hard pressed to do so. Scarf Crunch does a meager 65.09% MAX, and Reuniclus's focus blast OHKO's if it hits regardless of damage roll. Perish song Celebi is a solid answer to Reun, and with a fully physical Hippo, it also let's you beat virtually all variations of CM Rachi, which you rely on TTar and Hippo to beat since Bliss can't take it on at all. Bliss outright loses to CM+wish, and can't break a sub after just one Cm, not to mention the threat of psyshock. I know baton pass has lot's of cool utility, but I really feel that Perish song is the best option patching up some weaknesses. It also let's you beat tauntless Gyarados since perish song still hits even when they bounce. I realize that this was previously suggested, but I urge you to revisit it.

I also second Shakeitup's EV spread for Bliss, I'd much rather have the ability to take a light hit, and be able to crush volturn, than be specially bulky. If you really like Spdef EV'd Bliss, I still recommend the speed EVs at least. That said, Cool team bro! Shame there's no spinblocker, but it's kind of hard to add one without weakening your team to certain threats.
 
Dont know if this is suggested or not but try zap cannon on forry to beat sableye and mew. Yeah 50% sucks but it can also prevent dragonite and friends from setting up.
 
You already know that I feel perish song has more merit than baton pass on your celebi, and I really urge you to switch to it soley for the reason that Reuniclus is a huge threat to this team. Only Tyranitar can beat standard CM reun and it's hard pressed to do so. Scarf Crunch does a meager 65.09% MAX, and Reuniclus's focus blast OHKO's if it hits regardless of damage roll. Perish song Celebi is a solid answer to Reun, and with a fully physical Hippo, it also let's you beat virtually all variations of CM Rachi, which you rely on TTar and Hippo to beat since Bliss can't take it on at all. Bliss outright loses to CM+wish, and can't break a sub after just one Cm, not to mention the threat of psyshock. I know baton pass has lot's of cool utility, but I really feel that Perish song is the best option patching up some weaknesses. It also let's you beat tauntless Gyarados since perish song still hits even when they bounce. I realize that this was previously suggested, but I urge you to revisit it.

I also second Shakeitup's EV spread for Bliss, I'd much rather have the ability to take a light hit, and be able to crush volturn, than be specially bulky. If you really like Spdef EV'd Bliss, I still recommend the speed EVs at least. That said, Cool team bro! Shame there's no spinblocker, but it's kind of hard to add one without weakening your team to certain threats.

Hmm, ok I suppose having another Reunicles check would not be so bad. So I will definently retest perish song, by its self this time.

I really don't like Shake-it-ups set, but it would save a lot a hassle, I will test it.
 
Received the request.

You should replace Stealth Rock on TTar with Stone Edge and move Stealth Rock on over to Hippowdon, replacing Ice Fang or Roar, depending on which one is needed less. That should help your ChestoRest Volcarona weakness. I'd also recommend trying ShakeItUp's spread for Blissey. It helps keep Volt-Turn in its place by taking Scizor down. Perish Song over Baton Pass is a cool idea for Celebi.

Good luck!
 
Hi, got the request. Now, first of all, Celebi should never use Baton Pass when it has U-turn. The two moves accomplish the exact same task, except U-turn can actually hurt Tyranitar. As well, Celebi without Hidden Power Fire are absolutely mauled by Scizor. You can't beat Volt-turn by just beating Rotom-W, your Volt-turn breaker needs to be able to defeat Scizor as well. Hidden Power Fire, while not as powerful, is sufficient for dealing with Breloom. Conkeldurr can be handled by Skarmory, and Hippowdon to an extent. Do remember that most Dragons, such as Latias, Latios, Hydreigon, and Dragonite couldn't give two shits if you used Psychic rather than HP Fire, as you're not gonna hurt them much anyways. Also change the EVs to 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe so you can outspeed and KO Scizor.

The weak link of this team is Tyranitar. While double Sand is great, most of the Pokemon checked by Tyranitar can be handled by other members of your team. Now, Choice Band Terrakion seems to give your team immense difficulty, as nobody on your team can survive two CB Close Combats. One Pokemon that can help you in place of it is Choice Band Scizor, who can take out Terrakion with Bullet Punch. Scizor can take out all the Pokemon you needed Tyranitar for, such as Reuniclus and Alakazam (remember that Scarftar is still slower than Alaka). It also patches up your weaknesses to Salamence, Dragonite, and of course, Cloyster. Pursuit is shit, use Quick Attack so you can KO Gyarados more easily. While Heatran admittedly becomes more problematic, it can still be played around. One thing you could do now is Seismic Toss over Flamethrower, since Celebi now carries Hidden Power Fire. If all else fails, Hippowdon can take it out with some luck.

GL
U-turn>Baton Pass+Hidden Power Fire>Psychic+new EVs on Celebi
pros: U-turn>>>>>>Baton Pass, beats Volt-turn, especially Scizor
cons: a little more trouble against Conkeldurr and Dragons, the latter which you'd never keep Celebi in against

CB Scizor>Scarftar
pros: better at checking what Scarftar checked, checks Cloyster, Terrakion, Dragonite, and Salamence
cons: no more dual Sand

Seismic Toss>Flamethrower on Blissey
pros: better against Heatran
cons: can no longer hit Ferrothorn / Forry
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
- U-turn
- Recover

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack

Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic
 
Received the request.

You should replace Stealth Rock on TTar with Stone Edge and move Stealth Rock on over to Hippowdon, replacing Ice Fang or Roar, depending on which one is needed less. That should help your ChestoRest Volcarona weakness. I'd also recommend trying ShakeItUp's spread for Blissey. It helps keep Volt-Turn in its place by taking Scizor down. Perish Song over Baton Pass is a cool idea for Celebi.

Good luck!

Thanks for the rate.
I hate to be that guy, but really, I am not missing stone edge at all. Hippowdon loves the ability to phaze and actually do damage to things with whirlwind and ice fang. Im am still testing the Blissey set, but perish song has definantly proved it's merit recently.

Hi, got the request. Now, first of all, Celebi should never use Baton Pass when it has U-turn. The two moves accomplish the exact same task, except U-turn can actually hurt Tyranitar. As well, Celebi without Hidden Power Fire are absolutely mauled by Scizor. You can't beat Volt-turn by just beating Rotom-W, your Volt-turn breaker needs to be able to defeat Scizor as well. Hidden Power Fire, while not as powerful, is sufficient for dealing with Breloom. Conkeldurr can be handled by Skarmory, and Hippowdon to an extent. Do remember that most Dragons, such as Latias, Latios, Hydreigon, and Dragonite couldn't give two shits if you used Psychic rather than HP Fire, as you're not gonna hurt them much anyways. Also change the EVs to 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe so you can outspeed and KO Scizor.

The weak link of this team is Tyranitar. While double Sand is great, most of the Pokemon checked by Tyranitar can be handled by other members of your team. Now, Choice Band Terrakion seems to give your team immense difficulty, as nobody on your team can survive two CB Close Combats. One Pokemon that can help you in place of it is Choice Band Scizor, who can take out Terrakion with Bullet Punch. Scizor can take out all the Pokemon you needed Tyranitar for, such as Reuniclus and Alakazam (remember that Scarftar is still slower than Alaka). It also patches up your weaknesses to Salamence, Dragonite, and of course, Cloyster. Pursuit is shit, use Quick Attack so you can KO Gyarados more easily. While Heatran admittedly becomes more problematic, it can still be played around. One thing you could do now is Seismic Toss over Flamethrower, since Celebi now carries Hidden Power Fire. If all else fails, Hippowdon can take it out with some luck.

GL
U-turn>Baton Pass+Hidden Power Fire>Psychic+new EVs on Celebi
pros: U-turn>>>>>>Baton Pass, beats Volt-turn, especially Scizor
cons: a little more trouble against Conkeldurr and Dragons, the latter which you'd never keep Celebi in against

CB Scizor>Scarftar
pros: better at checking what Scarftar checked, checks Cloyster, Terrakion, Dragonite, and Salamence
cons: no more dual Sand

Seismic Toss>Flamethrower on Blissey
pros: better against Heatran
cons: can no longer hit Ferrothorn / Forry
Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 188 HP / 252 SpA / 68 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire
- U-turn
- Recover

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack


Blissey @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Wish
- Protect
- Toxic

Thank you for you rate first off. After testing perish song, I think I am going to stick with that actually, and u-turn actually required me to predict when T-tar came in, esentally I was just switching with a tiny bit of damage. Aside from Breloom and Conkeldurr one of the biggest advantages of psychic was the ability to 2HKO most Tentacruels, which have been rising in useage lately. While I realize other pokemon can deal with Tentacruel (Blissey if I give it seismic toss), it seems to lose much ulitilty. However, in combination with seismic toss on Blissey and Scizor>Tyranitar (which would solve a lot of threats) I might need to use it anyway to simply have a fire move. I will test out all of your suggestions aside from u-turn, once I decide to stick with Shake-it-up's Blissey set, which focuses on flamethrower.
 
Ok I have tested out these changes a bunch, mostly Scizor. While Scizor did fix a bunch of these threats, it opened up a small weakness to Latios, Starmie and other special attackers. Latios could now muscle past Scizor with HP fire and make Blissey sweat with psychoshocks, while starmie could now easily spin which, became a pain. Scizor also opened up a bigger special weakness, for example if Blissey went down to a bunch of crits from Heatran’s fire blast, then it could literally sweep my whole team. Tyranitar’s ability to simply switch in an kill Espeon and other weak psychic types is missed. Tyranitars additional stealth rock was also missed (Im telling you guys sr is the shit on scarf tyranitar!)

On the bright side Celebi with HP fire was a godsend. It allowed me to deal with Ferrothorn much easier outside of Blissey with flamethrower. I guess my fear of Breloom and Conkeldurr was just hype. Also since Celebi has HP fire, a speedy Blissey is not necessary. I am still judging between seismic toss and flamethrower though.

I have been thinking of a few change myself though. First being Tentacruel over Forretress, as Forretress doesn’t do much aside from spin and set up these days, and the ability to simply switch in and take out toxic spikes. I am hesitant of this change though because Tentacruel does not recover at all in sandstorm, so I will end up stalling myself out. On a similar note I have considering using rest on Forretess or Tentacruel in combination with a cleric Blissey. As if Forretress goes down, sometimes it can be game over against other stall teams. Also with RMT Delko’s stall team which is close to mine, I have been considering Jellicent > Celebi for a spin blocker and a fighting immunity. However, that would leave me a lot weaker against volt turn and Mew and sableye because Celebi can use giga drain on then to slowly wear then down.

I would like some input on these before I waste hours of my life testing them.
 
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