The Sun of Shallow Bay [OU RMT]

Introduction

Hello all, this is the retirement of one of my most successful teams I used the last couple of months. As you could tell from the team-preview, it's an offensive-based Sun team. It's build around CM + Morning Sun Espeon, who, imo, turned out to be a very anti-metagame poke. It also uses other underrated sets such as Toxic Stall Ninetales, Sunny Day Venusaur and Defensive Shell Smash Cloyster. CB Dragonite and Trapper Dugtrio complete the team. I think the team peaked somewhere around mid-1400's which I personally found more then decent for someone who doesn't ladder a lot, and in tourneys it has a significant win-lose rate. Now enough with the chit-chat, lets take a closer look. I hope you enjoy. Oh, and all of the pokemon are named after a Breaking Benjamin song that I found fitting, hence the name of the RMT matches their "best of" album.

Changes will be in green.

In-depth Look


WithoutYou (Ninetales) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Fire Blast
- Protect

This looks like a weird Ninetales set, but it's surprisingly effective. In the Sun, weaker Water moves don't even break the Sub. Ninetales is obviously very vital for this team to function, but she can hold her own against other Weather starters and if not, she lures them out for Dugtrio. I'll have to play around Pursuit Tyranitar though, especially the ones with a lot of investment in attack, but that's manageable. The move combination is self explanatory for a good working Toxic Stall set. Ninetales is still pretty fast and with her more then decent natural special bulk it's not that hard to get a Substitute up. From there the strategy is simple, Toxic + SubProtect and repeat. Substitute also protect Ninetales from status herself, so she can't be worn down that either. Flamethrower is preferred over Fire Blast or whatever for accuracy and PP reasons.

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GiveMeASign (Espeon) (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Morning Sun
- Hidden Power [Fire]

In my opinion, this is the MVP of the team. Espeon just does so many things, and so effectively. The most obvious thing, is that she prevents the set-up of entry hazards. Being a Sun team this is really appreciated. But she is also a key weapon against Stall teams, and when the Sun is up she can single-handedly break them down. Magic Bounce prevents her from being phazed and with Morning Sun she even has a reliable recovery move to heal from common moves on Stall teams such as Seismic Toss or Night Shade. Psyshock is preferred over Psychic since it helps taking out special walls and in case I need to engage in a CM war. Hidden Power [Fire] gives nice coverage alongside her Psychic STAB and lets her hit Scizor, and pokes as Ferrothorn, Forretress and Skarmory who usually don't switch but try to take out Espeon as soon as possible so they can set up their hazards. Espeon is actually pretty fast and makes a more then decent sweeper with a couple of Calm Minds under her belt. Hard counters to this set are Heatran and Tyranitar, both are taken of by Dugtrio, and Hydreigon, but that one isn't too common.

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BetterDays (Venusaur) (M) @ Black Sludge
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Sludge Bomb
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Venusaur is of the best pokemon to use on a Sun team, a reliable revenge killer and excellent late game sweeper. But he also provides me with a back up Sunny Day user, in case Ninetales dies before the opposing weather starter. I prefer Black Sludge over Life Orb because I don't want to get Venusaur in the KO-range for priority moves like Scizor's Bullet Punch. Since Venusaur usually sweeps late game, the drop in power isn't really noticeable anyway, but I still run SolarBeam over Energy Ball to kinda make up for this. Sludge Bomb is another STAB move and coupled with Hidden Power [Fire], it gives Venusaur more then decent coverage. Rather then the suggested Modest nature, I went with Timid so +2 Cloyster and Choice Scarf Terrakion can be outsped, both can be threats for this team. Despite little investment, Venusaur is still pretty bulky and can switch into pretty much every Water moves at least once. Venusaur is definitely an irreplaceable member.

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BreakMyFall (Dugtrio) (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Substitute

Dugtrio is, although being relatively weak, a key pokemon for this team. Thanks to Arena Trap I can dispose other weather pokes so I win the so called "Weather Wars", but he also removes other problematic pokes such as Heatran, Magnezone and Jirachi. Dugtrio's secondary objective is setting up Stealth Rock, which can be useful even though I have Espeon on the team. Earthquake for the obvious STAB move and Sub Reversal is pretty powerful, despite Dugtrio's not too great attack stat. Substitute can also work in taken down bulky Politoeds that are Toxic'ed. Focus Sash lets him always survive a hit so I don't have to be as careful witch switching him in. Dugtrio's makes a good combination with Cloyster too, who lures out Electric moves (mostly from Volt Switchers as Jolteon and Magnezone) so they can be trapped and killed.

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SoCold (Cloyster) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 156 Def / 64 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rock Blast
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin

Defensive Cloyster is the closest thing I have to a physical wall. Originally this was Forretress but Dragon-types tend to be really problematic for most Sun teams. Cloyster is one of the best checks for DD Dragons and other annoying pokes such as Toxic Stall Gliscor and Substitute Landorus. Cloyster also has access to Rapid Spin, in case Espeon couldn't prevent all hazards from being set-up. Icicle Spear and Rock Blast are Cloyster's best moves to use in conjunction with Skill Link and their combined coverage isn't too bad either. Shell Smash is a strange move on a defensive Cloyster and I have to admit it's mainly filler, but is has saved my ass so many times, I'm not even considering another move instead.

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BlowMeAway (Dragonite) (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Outrage
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch

Last but not least we have Choice Band Dragonite, and it hits like a goddamn truck. It's either used early in the game to create holes in the opposing team with Outrage, or to finish off weakened teams in later stages of the battle. In a previous version of the team this used to be Volcarona but I hate that pokemon with a passion and Dragonite has given me a fail plan on so many occasions, mainly thanks to a strong priority ExtremeSpeed. Sun boosted Fire Punch is no laughing matter either, and Earthquake is almost solely for Heatran who completely walls half the team. Dragonite is definitely one of the most important members of the team because it keeps so much in check, especially bulky pokes like Reuniclus and Volcarona. It's also one of my main answer for opposing Sun teams.

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Treatlist

Special Dragons: Here's one of the main downsides of not using a Steel type on the team, special dragons as Lati@s, Kyurem and Hydreigon are free to spam their powerful Draco Meteor upon the team. Ninetales can sponge hits from most of them though, and proceed to Toxic Stall but Substitute variants are especially annoying. Substitute Hydreigon takes out 2 pokes on average and Sub CM Latias is even more dangerous, my best option here is to go offensive with Cloyster as soon as possible to prevent set up or try to set up Espeon simultaneously.

Air Balloon Heatran: Luckily most people tend to forget that Air Balloon negates Arena Trap so they stay in against Dugtrio who can still beat it with reversal + Earthquake. But in theory Air Balloon Heatran is a big threat as it walls more then half my team. And because it's offensive I usually lose a poke just by breaking the balloon. Dugtrio and Dragonite are very important members here.

will rate in a few

cool team delko!

Nice team, how about trying Ice Shard somewhere on Cloyster's set to take out +2 or above dragons? I can also see a weakness to SpecsLatios or LO Latios, who can take out every single of your team members out with Draco Meteor. This is why I insist using Ice Shard, because your only other solution is using Sludge Bomb to weaken and Espeed to kill, after sacking Venusaur. Hope I helped and GL.

This is very beautiful team. I've seen this team in action and your Sunny Day Venusaur saves the day soo many times. Good job!

Love the naming. Will rate soon.

Funny thing is, I have a team nearly identical to this, lol. Anyways, it's as good as it's going to be. The special Dragon weakness (subbing varients, which in essence go to dinner on your team) could be fixed somewhat by using Roar > Flamethrower. From playtesting, I never found myself using Flamethrower, and was unimpressed by its weak power, since Ninetale's SpA is horribad. Yes, you lose your main STAB and become Taunt-bait, but seriously, the Sub-Hydreigon weakness is just so severe I believe this change is justified. One final thing, I have a proposal for a more effective Cloyster EV set. The one you have doesn't even outspeed the likes of Tornadus and Starmie at +1, which I observed from spectating one of your matches and that made you lose the match.

Below is what I run. It allows you to keep almost the same physical bulk to tank heavy attackers, while being able to outspeed important benchmarks like Starmie. I hope I helped, and congratulations on the success!

EVs: 248 HP / 40 Atk / 156 Def / 64 Spd

Hey Delko,
very nice RMT, obviously because of epic Breaking Benjaming. They're one of my top 3 bands of all time. You know Dance with the devil or Diary of Jane from BB? These are my favourite songs.

Not much to say about the team. Only thing is running Ice Shard on Cloyster as Dcae said which could help you taking out weakend dragons.
Great team!

I am going to suggest porygon2 over cloyster for your dragon weakness

Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 56 SDef / 8 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

evs can be tweaked to handle special dragons better.
Porygon 2 checks the same mons cloyster does such as dragonite, haxorus (kindof), gyarados, as well as taking care of opposing cloyster, heatran, chandelure (uncommon but massive threat), and mixedmence. It also hard counters landorus and toxic stall gliscor by tracing poison heal as well as just being very bulky in general.

Next i would think about tryign out this spread on espeon:

Espeon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 140 Def / 20 SAtk / 96 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Morning Sun
- Calm Mind

This gives espeon more bulk letting it take cb bullet punches better, and the speed evs outspeed timid heatran so you can stay in and pop its balloon without it getting up sr.
Also you could try out baton pass over calm mind to help trap stuff with dugtrio, but you lose out on sweeping capabilities.

I would also give veunsaur a LO and to go modest if you consider the changes above, as porygon2 checks cloyster and the extra bulk on espeon helps beat scarfed terrakion. I also find timid and no LO to be very lackluster in terms of damage output.

In terms of your sub latias and subhydreigon weakness, I think that, a dd dragonite might prove useful in checking these threats, especially if you can get set up before they do.

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Outrage
- Earthquake

eq is for heatran.

Nice team, GL.

Really cool team, Delko! I'm loving the use of different, but affective sets. If I find a solution to the team's problems without openings a bunch of other holes up, I will edit this with a rate.

This is a great team, I've played it a few times on the ladder on various alts. The only suggestion I have is changing your Venusaur Evs Slightly to this:

BetterDays (Venusaur) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Sludge Bomb
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The only thing you really need to outspeed are threats such as scarf Tornadus and Latios. These Evs still allow you to do that and give you a little more general bulk for dealing with priority hits.
The other thing is I'd honestly run leftovers, if something tricks your Black Sludge, it's likely to come back late game and trick something else that will not want Black Sludge such as Ninetales. I feel these changes will help slightly, but like I said its a nice team.

With that spread Venu is unable to outspeed Timid ScarfTornadus/Latios cause it reaches only 262 Spd --> 524 vs 529/525, maybe you're not considering the Spd IVs drop due to HP [Fire].

The correct spread should be: 72 HP / 252 SpAtk / 184 Spd.

Anyway, great team! I have built one more or less identical but i used Growth+3 Attacks Venu and Sunny Day Ninetales, I'll try your movesets =)
Great Job!

Toxzn said:

This is a great team, I've played it a few times on the ladder on various alts. The only suggestion I have is changing your Venusaur Evs Slightly to this:

BetterDays (Venusaur) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sunny Day
- Sludge Bomb
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The only thing you really need to outspeed are threats such as scarf Tornadus and Latios. These Evs still allow you to do that and give you a little more general bulk for dealing with priority hits.
The other thing is I'd honestly run leftovers, if something tricks your Black Sludge, it's likely to come back late game and trick something else that will not want Black Sludge such as Ninetales. I feel these changes will help slightly, but like I said its a nice team.

Click to expand...

Scarf Terrakion is a serious threat to this team and Venusaur needs to outspeed it to check it.

Speaking of Terrakion, a RP set with completely sweeps this team after SR are up. I have the same problem on my team. I do not know a solution for this yet, besides from keeping sr of the field and using duggy to RK (unless it has balloon, but a dnite espeed can break that). If SR is not up, you can beat it with a combo of Dugtrio and Dragonite though (damn you MultiScale!!).

It is a really nice team and in fact, I do have a similar version which also got high on the ladder :D

I don't think SS cloyster will do much. I reccomend toxic spikes on cloyster and roar on ninetales to phaze out the troublesome substitue dragons. TOXIC SPIKES HELP OUT INSTEAD OF TIXC. alSO, MAYBE hp ICE OVER PROTECT. didnt mean caps lock, but i dont want to re-type.
Ninetales @ Leftovers
Trait: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 120 SDef / 136 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roar
- Substitute/Protect
- Flamethrower
- HP ice

Cloyster @ Leftovers
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 248 HP / 84 Atk / 176 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rock Blast
- Toxic Spikes
- Icicle Spear
- Rapid Spin

Hi Delko, cool team! To help with the threats you mentioned a Choice Band Scizor could work as it fits nicely on you team with all the fire attacks around to scare off Scizor's common counters. With Scizor, you have something to take Draco Meteors along with a nice check to Trick Room Reuniclus (Dragonite is a pretty shaky check as it has to be at full HP to deal with it). Another cool thing about Scizor is you can use it to lure in Heatran, U-turn to break its Balloon and go out to Dugtrio to trap it. The problem is finding a slot for Scizor. Personally, I think I could go over Cloyster as Scizor can check DD Dragons as well. You lose spinning, but between Espeon and offensive pressure, hazards shouldn't be a problem. To help with Sub Hydreigon / Sub CM Latias, I also suggest Roar over Protect on Ninetales and Sleep Powder over Sludge Bomb on Venusaur. Without Protect Ninetales' ability to stall is a bit hampered, but I think stopping the sub from going up is worth it. Sleep Powder would greatly help with Heatran / Dragons, because currently how I see it playing out when you go up againt them is "Heatran / Latios easily switch in and something dies x6". With Sleep Powder, these threats can still wall your team, but you won't have to worry about taking a hit from then while you switch out into the appropriate check.


hope I helped :)

Good team Delko, I will comment it later and I wanted to say that I also like Breaking Benjamin ( So Cold is the one I prefer ^^ )

Nitpick but run 19 HP EVs on Dugtrio. It lets you Substitute down to 1 HP from health. Useful for getting Reversal at full HP vs crunching Tyranitars.

Thank you for this awesome team, Delko! This team has lots of individuality; kind of reminiscent to Stone Cold's team, where your team finds an unorthodox way to make use of Sun's blessings.

There's nothing much to change ... since I believe your team has all the tools to get past pertinent threats. Special dragons would have to be dealt by smart sacrificing and just going aggressive... you may want Toxic / Sucker Punch on Dugtrio if you want to hurt Latios, but it may not be worth the change. The Ninetales set could make use of little tweaks to prevent it from being free set-up bait for SubHydreigon, though, since it is the only free chance to put up a Sub. For one, BTzz's Roar suggestion is a good one, forcing Hydreigon to attack and be vulnerable to Toxic-stalling or be roared out. Alternatively, Fire Blast, even with no SpA investment, is powerful enough to break Hydreigon's Substitute (26-30% to 56 HP Hydreigon). This would allow Ninetales to retain its toxic-stalling tactic while dealing with SubHydreigon.

Also I had the privilege to try out your CM Espeon, and it exceeded my expectations! I wouldn't even say that Heatran is a hard-counter, as Espeon can stall out even offensive AB Heatran's Fire Blast after +2 CMs, thanks to Morning Sun's 67% recovery. I am pretty sure Espeon can set up on Hydreigon similarly if it has to :d

CM Morning Sun Espeon tears my team apart. I have to rethink :(

Hi Delko,nice team.I'd suggest Spdeftran over Duggy or Cloyster,not really sure who's more replaceable.It'll patch up your weakness to special dragon moves.

Heatran@leftovers
252 Hp 200 Spdef 56 Def
Calm(+ Spdef -Atk)
Lava Plume
Stealth rock(if you replace Duggy)/Earth power
Wil-o-wisp
Earth Power/Hp Ice/Toxic

GL!

Thanks for your suggestions everyone! I'll try them all out and get back to you.

Alright, it took awhile but updated the OP. For now I only replaced Flamethrower with Fire Blast on Ninetales and changed Cloyster's EV spread. I also really want to use Sleep Power on Venusaur + DD Dragonite, but the problem is that it'll make other pokemon bigger threats. Still debating on this.

Thanks for your suggestions everyone! :)

Hey, this is a really cool team! If you're having trouble with special dragons, why not run a specially defensive heatran with roar? it's a pretty solid check to sub hydreigon and Lati@s, since they really can't do anything bar Focus Blast. It also gives you an extra check to opposing sun attackers; not like they're a problem right now, but it just gives you that extra assurance. Just a suggestion! Hope i helped :P