The Desert Titans

El Rey



With the Gates opening and welcoming new threats to the Pokemon World, it seemed that the World would be flooded by eternal rain. But old heroes rose from legends, with a veil of sand to protect them. The Desert Titans are ready to take on the new metagame with old strategy.



I made the team starting with Hippowdon, I wanted a defensive sand summoner that could take physical hits well and Hippowdon was perfect for that.

Next I wanted a flying pokemon, that could also take physical hits well. So I went with Skarmory. It’s an amazing Pokemon, and it can set up spikes and whirlwind threats away.

Now I noticed I was weak against special attackers such as Latios, Starmie, Celebi, etc. So I went with Blissey. Blissey can take special attack extremely well, and recover with softboiled, so Blissey was a perfect addition to my team.

Next I needed a spinner, because hazards are a pain, so I went with Forretress. Forretress is an excellent rapid spinner and is very bulky, so it doesn’t go down quickly which is what I need.

Next I wanted a spin blocker, and Jellicent was perfect for that.

If Blissey dies I would be in trouble for special grass/ghost attacks so I went with Heatran to cover that. Does it’s job well, as it also serves to toxic Pokemon. I also needed something against steel types.





Hippowdon - Leftovers
EV’s: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp.Def
Trait: Sand Stream - Impish Nature
-MOVESET-
-Earthquake | -Ice Fang | -Slackoff | -Roar
The Ev’s are made to make it as defensive as possible. I use two attacks to get rid of any pokemon with “Balloon” and then hit them with Earthquake or just hit any Flying type since Earthquake won't do anything.




Skarmory - Leftovers
EV’s: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
Trait: Sturdy - Impish Nature
-MOVESET-
-Spikes | -Roost | -Whirlwind |-Brave Bird

Basic Skarmory set. It helps set up my spikes and can whirlwind enemies away. Most dragons and physically offensive pokemon can’t harm Skarmory so it allows me to set up spikes to hurt the other team with hazards.




Blissey - Leftovers
EV’s: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp.Def
Trait: Natural Cure - Bold Nature
-MOVESET-
-Aromatherapy | -Softboiled | -Seismic Toss | -Toxic

This Blissey set is very important to the team. If any of my pokemon are burned, paralyzed, frozen or poisoned, I use Aromatherapy to heal them. It’s also a major help for powerful special attacker’s like Tornadus, Latios, Starmie, etc.




Forretress - Leftovers
EV’s: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Sp.Def
Trait: Sturdy - Relaxed Nature
-MOVESET-
-Toxic Spikes | -Stealth Rock | -Rapid Spin | Volt Switch

This Forretress is used to spin away hazards and set up its hazards. With its bulk it can quite easily set up a layer of Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes. Volt Switch is to get out of the field in case a Magnezone traps me, also hitting water/flying types effectively.




Jellicent - Leftovers
EV’s: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 Sp.Def
Trait: Water Absorb - Calm Nature
-MOVESET-
-Scald | -Recover | -Will-O-Wisp | Shadow Ball

Jellicent is my spin blocker, helps me keep the hazards on my opponent's side of the field. Starmie can’t hurt it very much. Thunderbolt does about 36% without Life Orb, and I can kill it with Shadow Ball. Will-O-Wisp to burn pokemon that might wanna use pursuit on it or just burn pokemon in general.




Heatran - Leftovers
EV’s: 248 HP / 100 Sp.Def / 160 Spd
Trait: Flash Fire - Calm Nature
-MOVESET-
-Lava Plume | -Roar | -Protect | -Toxic

This Heatran set is mainly for special attackers if Blissey dies or if it happens to Psyshock. I poison it and usually roar it away. Lava Plume to burn if the pokemon is a steel type. Helps beat pokemon like Ferrothorn, Scizor, Magnezone, etc.


​
-
:- Volt Turn is a problem, since I always have to switch out to avoid letting a pokemon die. I try to set up hazards to hurt them as they switch.

-: Any Mixed pokemon set can cause a problem since these pokemon are slow and are either Heavily Defensive (low special defense) or Heavily Special Defensive (low defense) can’t really do much.


HTML: 
Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang
- Roar

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Protect
- Toxic

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Roost
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird

Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
 

Episode36

If Volt+Turn is a problem, have you considered replacing one of your Pokemon with something like specially defensive Gastrodon? Rotom-W and Thundurus-T among others can't get through Gastrodon due to Storm Drain and ground typing. Physically bulky Latias is another good Volt+Turn stopper, especially if you use Reflect/Recover/Dragon Pulse/whatever your team needs (roar maybe, or HP Fire). Best candidate to replace with one of those Pokemon seems to be Heatran or Blissey, or possibly Jellicent. If you replace Jellicent, though, you'd still have to replace one of your Pokemon with something like Dusclops to keep your spin-blocking. Dusclops is much bulkier, and I would suggest the Night Shade/Sleep Talk/W-o-W/Rest set, with Eviolite. Or just keep Jellicent and replace either Blissey or Heatran with one of the Pokemon listed above/another good voltturn stopper.

Looking over your team more, if Volt+Turn is really a problem (and it seems like it might be) then Blissey seems the best candidate to take out. I'd probably replace it with specially defensive Gastrodon.
 
Valhalla

Valhalla

Cool team. You say you have problems with VoltTurn.

Have you considered using Amoonguss over Blissey?

Amoonguss forms a marvelous F/W/G defensive core along with Heatran and Jellicent, is a good matchup against both Rotom-Wash and Scizor, and can put either to sleep with spore, which wrecks VoltTurn. From personal experience, I can definitely say that VoltTurn teams will find it difficult to maintain offensive momentum with Amoonguss and entry hazards in the mix.

Even better, Amoonguss gets one of the best abilities in the game, Regenerator, allowing it to soak up Special attacks such as Draco Meteor and switch out to one its teammates to set up hazards or phaze whilst it recovers. In addition, Amoonguss resists fighting type moves, and doesn't mind being hammered by an occasional Close Combat or Superpower (and I should also note, resists both of Breloom's STAB moves)--something Blissey could only dream of.

You could easily abuse Spore and Regenerator with such great defensive partners.

This set is standard fare.

Amoonguss @ Leftovers Lvl. 100 -- Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Calm - EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
Spore
Clear Smog
Giga Drain
Hidden Power [Ice]


Spore puts potential threats to sleep so you can Whirlwind/Roar them away. HP Ice has great coverage and hurts Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence. Giga Drain is gives pretty reliable recovery on top of Regenerator and Lefties. I should also mention that you could use Stun Spore over Clear Smog, because, as you said your team is slower than potential mixed threats.

Good luck with your team, mate.
 

CrackinSkulls

Hey there, nice team. Its great to see someone mixing it up a little with Hippowdon and stall in the current meta. I love the fact that you don't have any therians ;). Now onto my rate:



LO Mamoswine is a pretty big threat to your team. Your only real answer to him are Toxic Spikes which is hardly ideal seeing as his usage has climbed considerably. Forry is the only one that can take on anything he has to throw at him but he really can't do much in return. Mamoswine is notorious for his ability to take on Skarmory so I wouldn't call it an ideal check.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Icicle Crash vs 0 HP/0 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 89.08% - 104.2% 31.25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Icicle Crash vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 34.13% - 39.82% 3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Remember the flinch chance
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/36 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 67.57% - 79.46% 2 hits to KO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 232.21% - 272.73% Guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/176 Def Forretress (+Def) : 39.27% - 46.61% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Blissey (+Def) : 59.24% - 69.75% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)




Wallbreakers in general are a fairly large threat to stall but a standout threat to this one for me is MixNape. Jellicent is a fairly hard counter but he can just U-Turn out, Grass Knot or ThunderPunch (not as common), both of which take a large chunk out of it.
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Hippowdon: 72.38% - 85.24% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Forretress: 347.46% - 408.47% Guaranteed OHKO
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Skarmory: 163.47% - 192.22% Guaranteed OHKO
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot vs 252 HP/220 SpDef Jellicent: 38.12% - 45.05% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape ThunderPunch vs 252 HP/0 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 55.45% - 65.35% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 108.31% - 127.01% Guaranteed OHKO




However, the standout threat for me so far is another wallbreaker, Calm Mind Reuniclus. It can set up on your whole team and Skarmory will be hard pressed to phaze it out because of how hard it hits.
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Skarmory: 62.87% - 74.25% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Psyshock vs 252 HP/36 Def Jellicent: 49.75% - 58.66% 2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Focus Blast vs 248 HP/100 SpDef Heatran (+SpDef) : 64.42% - 75.84% 2 hits to KO
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Hippowdon: 48.57% - 57.38% 2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Psyshock vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 24.29% - 28.57% 5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Psyshock vs 252 HP/252 Def Blissey (+Def) : 39.92% - 47.06% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Keep in mind Blissey is complete set up fodder because it can't touch Reuniclus.
All these calculations were done at +1 without a Life Orb. Once it nabs some more boosts you are going to be swept in no time.




Another big threat is Breloom. It only need one turn of set up and it can wreak havoc when it is set up. Nobody on your team wants to take a hit and if you mispredict a Spore you will surely be 6-0'd.
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 71.86% - 84.43% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 208.05% - 244.68% Guaranteed OHKO
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 53.57% - 62.86% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/36 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 99.5% - 117.33% 93.75% chance to OHKO
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 252 HP/252 Def Blissey (+Def) : 213.45% - 251.26% Guaranteed OHKO
(all the Bullet Seed Calculations are done per hit so 2 hits to KO means that all it needs to do is hit twice)

These a couple of standout threats to your team.


===>


While slightly unorthodox Choice Scarf Heracross patches up these weaknesses quite well. I think that Skarmory's role is somewhat redundant and therefore would be the first to go. Choice Scarf Heracross can switch in on anything Breloom has to throw at it (unboosted) including Spore and KO back with a guts boosted STAB thanks to Sleep Talk.
252 +1 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Megahorn vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 144.27% - 169.85% Guaranteed OHKO
252 +1 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 144.27% - 169.85% Guaranteed OHKO
252 +1 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 40.08% - 47.33% 3 hits to KO
With Sleep Talk he has a 61% chance of cleanly OHKOing Breloom. Breloom on the other hand will be hard pressed to return the favor.
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 29.57% - 34.88% 3-4 hits to KO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 18.27% - 21.59% 5-6 hits to KO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 44.52% - 52.16% 2-3 hits to KO
As far as I know that is a pretty reliable way to take him on. He can also reliably take down Reuniclus with Megahorn.
252 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252 HP/252 Def Reuniclus (+Def) : 85.61% - 101.18% 6.25% chance to OHKO
Although Mamoswine does have Ice Shard Close Combat will comfortably KO back.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 4 HP/0 Def Heracross: 35.76% - 42.05% 3 hits to KO
252 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 139.23% - 164.09% Guaranteed OHKO
He will also cleanly OHKO Infernape with Earthquake
252 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Earthquake vs 0 HP/0 Def Infernape: 105.12% - 124.23% Guaranteed OHKO
Heracross makes a great addition because it gives you a reliable check to the aforementioned threats. He also puts some offensive pressure into your team and in the past I have found him to be very effective on my stall teams.


===>


Alternatively if you are tentative about using Heracross then Bulky Volcarona is also a great teammate. It does have certain advantages over Heracross but it does also have disadvantages. Its advantages include being able to set up and sweep, it can engage in a CM/QD war with Reuniclus which it will win thanks to its SE damage (be wary of Psyshock). It also has recovery and is far easier to use. She is also better at dispatching of Mamoswine especially as it resists Ice Shard.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 252 HP/60 Def Volcarona (+Def) : 13.64% - 16.04% 10-13 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Her disadvantages are, an inability to KO MixNape straight up. Fortunately it can set up on it as long as it doesn't run Stone Edge. Another disadvantage is that it can't come in on Breloom as easily but it can KO it unconditionally.
0 SpAtk Volcarona Fiery Dance vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Breloom: 129.39% - 152.29% Guaranteed OHKO. It is up to you because they are both great choices, however, personally Heracross sounds more appealing.




If I were you I would replace Seismic Toss on Blissey with wish because while most of your Pokemon have there own recovery, Forretress loves wishes. It lets him come in time and time again to spin, set up and wall. Heracross and Heatran both love Wishes.

To accommodate for Heracross (or Volcarona) I suggest shifting Spikes to Forretress and Stealth Rock to Heatran.



Just a suggestion you might want to go with Gyro Ball over Volt Switch on Forretress to hit Mamoswine.
0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 62.15% - 73.76% 2 hits to KO



Lastly I would definitely run Air Balloon on Heatran because it lets it beat Mamoswine, set up SR on other Heatrans and a plethora of choice locked Earthquakes. It also lets it stand up do DD Moxie Mence, not the biggest threat but if its brought out at the right time it could be a bitch. With Blissey passing Wishes the recovery won't really change much.


Heracross>Skarmory
Pros: You get an attacker, a revenge killer. He checks a lot of your threats.
Cons: It wrecks your SkarmBliss core and you lose out on a Phazer, Spiker and some overall bulk.

or

Volcarona>Skarmory
Pros: Pretty much the same as Heracross
Cons: Same as above.

Air Balloon>Leftovers on Heatran
Pros: Ground Immunity
Cons: No passive recovery

Gyro Ball>Volt Switch on Forretress
Pros: It deals good damage, especially on threats like Mamoswine
Cons: You are prone to being trapped by Magnezone and Volt Switch can gain some handy momentum

Stealth Rock>Roar on Heatran
Pros: you know what they are
Cons: Losing out on a Phazer

Spikes>Stealth Rock on Forretress
Pros: you get max hazards
Cons: it takes longer to set up

Wish>Seismic Toss on Blissey
Pros: Healing for the whole team. Giving Forretress and Heatran a second wind.
Cons: You can't deal damage and you become set up fodder.




Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic



Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch/ Gyro Ball



Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Wish
- Toxic



Heracross (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Guts
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Sleep Talk
- Earthquake/ Stone Edge

or



Volcarona (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP/ 60 Def/ 196 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
The speed EVs are to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine.


In the future you may want to explain some of your EV spreads because they are slightly unorthodox, I didn't want to change them because I figured that you had them for a reason. If you could take a little more time to explain them it will make rating much easier. Anyway great team, I hope I could help.
Good luck, cya
 

El Rey

Episode36 said:
If Volt+Turn is a problem, have you considered replacing one of your Pokemon with something like specially defensive Gastrodon? Rotom-W and Thundurus-T among others can't get through Gastrodon due to Storm Drain and ground typing. Physically bulky Latias is another good Volt+Turn stopper, especially if you use Reflect/Recover/Dragon Pulse/whatever your team needs (roar maybe, or HP Fire). Best candidate to replace with one of those Pokemon seems to be Heatran or Blissey, or possibly Jellicent. If you replace Jellicent, though, you'd still have to replace one of your Pokemon with something like Dusclops to keep your spin-blocking. Dusclops is much bulkier, and I would suggest the Night Shade/Sleep Talk/W-o-W/Rest set, with Eviolite. Or just keep Jellicent and replace either Blissey or Heatran with one of the Pokemon listed above/another good voltturn stopper.

Looking over your team more, if Volt+Turn is really a problem (and it seems like it might be) then Blissey seems the best candidate to take out. I'd probably replace it with specially defensive Gastrodon.
Click to expand...
I've never really considered Gastrodon, it's perfect to stop Rotom from Volt Switching away and it can absorb water attacks which is awesome. The only pokemon I'd switch to add Gastrodon to the team would be Jellicent but Jellicent's job is to prevent my opponent from rapid spinning the hazards away. I'll try Gastrodon out and see how well it does.

I can't really replace my Blissey as it's very important to my team. It heals my Pokemon of their status' with Aromatherapy which is a major help to my team.

I'll agree, most of the team Heatran doesn't really do much to help, but at times he's very useful, Latios/as can't touch it and I poison them with Toxic, other then that it doesn't help much.

I'd suppose Latias could be a good replacement for Heatran, stop the Volt-Turn, I'll give it a try!

Dusclops could be very useful the team, it's bulk can make it hard to kill, and I can Will-O-Wisp my opponents Physical Offensive Pokemon. It could replace Heatran if I replace Jellicent with Gastrodon. Thanks for the rate!

Valhalla said:
Cool team. You say you have problems with VoltTurn.

Have you considered using Amoonguss over Blissey?

Amoonguss forms a marvelous F/W/G defensive core along with Heatran and Jellicent, is a good matchup against both Rotom-Wash and Scizor, and can put either to sleep with spore, which wrecks VoltTurn. From personal experience, I can definitely say that VoltTurn teams will find it difficult to maintain offensive momentum with Amoonguss and entry hazards in the mix.

Even better, Amoonguss gets one of the best abilities in the game, Regenerator, allowing it to soak up Special attacks such as Draco Meteor and switch out to one its teammates to set up hazards or phaze whilst it recovers. In addition, Amoonguss resists fighting type moves, and doesn't mind being hammered by an occasional Close Combat or Superpower (and I should also note, resists both of Breloom's STAB moves)--something Blissey could only dream of.

You could easily abuse Spore and Regenerator with such great defensive partners.

This set is standard fare.

Amoonguss @ Leftovers Lvl. 100 -- Trait: Regenerator
Nature: Calm - EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spe
Spore
Clear Smog
Giga Drain
Hidden Power [Ice]


Spore puts potential threats to sleep so you can Whirlwind/Roar them away. HP Ice has great coverage and hurts Gliscor, Dragonite, and Salamence. Giga Drain is gives pretty reliable recovery on top of Regenerator and Lefties. I should also mention that you could use Stun Spore over Clear Smog, because, as you said your team is slower than potential mixed threats.

Good luck with your team, mate.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the rate!

Amoonguss does sound tempting, spore can stop the Volt-Turn and take a special attack very well. I'll give it a try and see how well it fits in the team.

CrackinSkulls said:
Hey there, nice team. Its great to see someone mixing it up a little with Hippowdon and stall in the current meta. I love the fact that you don't have any therians ;). Now onto my rate:



LO Mamoswine is a pretty big threat to your team. Your only real answer to him are Toxic Spikes which is hardly ideal seeing as his usage has climbed considerably. Forry is the only one that can take on anything he has to throw at him but he really can't do much in return. Mamoswine is notorious for his ability to take on Skarmory so I wouldn't call it an ideal check.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Icicle Crash vs 0 HP/0 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 89.08% - 104.2% 31.25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Icicle Crash vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 34.13% - 39.82% 3-4 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Remember the flinch chance
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/36 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 67.57% - 79.46% 2 hits to KO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 232.21% - 272.73% Guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/176 Def Forretress (+Def) : 39.27% - 46.61% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine (+Atk) Earthquake vs 252 HP/252 Def Blissey (+Def) : 59.24% - 69.75% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)




Wallbreakers in general are a fairly large threat to stall but a standout threat to this one for me is MixNape. Jellicent is a fairly hard counter but he can just U-Turn out, Grass Knot or ThunderPunch (not as common), both of which take a large chunk out of it.
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Hippowdon: 72.38% - 85.24% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Forretress: 347.46% - 408.47% Guaranteed OHKO
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Overheat vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Skarmory: 163.47% - 192.22% Guaranteed OHKO
4 SpAtk Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot vs 252 HP/220 SpDef Jellicent: 38.12% - 45.05% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape ThunderPunch vs 252 HP/0 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 55.45% - 65.35% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 108.31% - 127.01% Guaranteed OHKO




However, the standout threat for me so far is another wallbreaker, Calm Mind Reuniclus. It can set up on your whole team and Skarmory will be hard pressed to phaze it out because of how hard it hits.
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Skarmory: 62.87% - 74.25% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Psyshock vs 252 HP/36 Def Jellicent: 49.75% - 58.66% 2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Focus Blast vs 248 HP/100 SpDef Heatran (+SpDef) : 64.42% - 75.84% 2 hits to KO
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Focus Blast vs 252 HP/4 SpDef Hippowdon: 48.57% - 57.38% 2-3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Psyshock vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 24.29% - 28.57% 5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
4 +1 SpAtk Reuniclus Psyshock vs 252 HP/252 Def Blissey (+Def) : 39.92% - 47.06% 3 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Keep in mind Blissey is complete set up fodder because it can't touch Reuniclus.
All these calculations were done at +1 without a Life Orb. Once it nabs some more boosts you are going to be swept in no time.




Another big threat is Breloom. It only need one turn of set up and it can wreak havoc when it is set up. Nobody on your team wants to take a hit and if you mispredict a Spore you will surely be 6-0'd.
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 252 HP/252 Def Skarmory (+Def) : 71.86% - 84.43% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 248 HP/0 Def Heatran: 208.05% - 244.68% Guaranteed OHKO
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/252 Def Hippowdon (+Def) : 53.57% - 62.86% 2 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 252 HP/36 Def Jellicent (+Def) : 99.5% - 117.33% 93.75% chance to OHKO
252 +2 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 252 HP/252 Def Blissey (+Def) : 213.45% - 251.26% Guaranteed OHKO
(all the Bullet Seed Calculations are done per hit so 2 hits to KO means that all it needs to do is hit twice)

These a couple of standout threats to your team.


===>


While slightly unorthodox Choice Scarf Heracross patches up these weaknesses quite well. I think that Skarmory's role is somewhat redundant and therefore would be the first to go. Choice Scarf Heracross can switch in on anything Breloom has to throw at it (unboosted) including Spore and KO back with a guts boosted STAB thanks to Sleep Talk.
252 +1 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Megahorn vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 144.27% - 169.85% Guaranteed OHKO
252 +1 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 144.27% - 169.85% Guaranteed OHKO
252 +1 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Breloom: 40.08% - 47.33% 3 hits to KO
With Sleep Talk he has a 61% chance of cleanly OHKOing Breloom. Breloom on the other hand will be hard pressed to return the favor.
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 29.57% - 34.88% 3-4 hits to KO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Bullet Seed vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 18.27% - 21.59% 5-6 hits to KO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom (+Atk) Low Sweep vs 0 HP/0 Def Heracross: 44.52% - 52.16% 2-3 hits to KO
As far as I know that is a pretty reliable way to take him on. He can also reliably take down Reuniclus with Megahorn.
252 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Megahorn vs 252 HP/252 Def Reuniclus (+Def) : 85.61% - 101.18% 6.25% chance to OHKO
Although Mamoswine does have Ice Shard Close Combat will comfortably KO back.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 4 HP/0 Def Heracross: 35.76% - 42.05% 3 hits to KO
252 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Close Combat vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 139.23% - 164.09% Guaranteed OHKO
He will also cleanly OHKO Infernape with Earthquake
252 Atk Heracross (+Atk) Earthquake vs 0 HP/0 Def Infernape: 105.12% - 124.23% Guaranteed OHKO
Heracross makes a great addition because it gives you a reliable check to the aforementioned threats. He also puts some offensive pressure into your team and in the past I have found him to be very effective on my stall teams.


===>


Alternatively if you are tentative about using Heracross then Bulky Volcarona is also a great teammate. It does have certain advantages over Heracross but it does also have disadvantages. Its advantages include being able to set up and sweep, it can engage in a CM/QD war with Reuniclus which it will win thanks to its SE damage (be wary of Psyshock). It also has recovery and is far easier to use. She is also better at dispatching of Mamoswine especially as it resists Ice Shard.
252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs 252 HP/60 Def Volcarona (+Def) : 13.64% - 16.04% 10-13 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Her disadvantages are, an inability to KO MixNape straight up. Fortunately it can set up on it as long as it doesn't run Stone Edge. Another disadvantage is that it can't come in on Breloom as easily but it can KO it unconditionally.
0 SpAtk Volcarona Fiery Dance vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Breloom: 129.39% - 152.29% Guaranteed OHKO. It is up to you because they are both great choices, however, personally Heracross sounds more appealing.




If I were you I would replace Seismic Toss on Blissey with wish because while most of your Pokemon have there own recovery, Forretress loves wishes. It lets him come in time and time again to spin, set up and wall. Heracross and Heatran both love Wishes.

To accommodate for Heracross (or Volcarona) I suggest shifting Spikes to Forretress and Stealth Rock to Heatran.



Just a suggestion you might want to go with Gyro Ball over Volt Switch on Forretress to hit Mamoswine.
0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball vs 4 HP/0 Def Mamoswine: 62.15% - 73.76% 2 hits to KO



Lastly I would definitely run Air Balloon on Heatran because it lets it beat Mamoswine, set up SR on other Heatrans and a plethora of choice locked Earthquakes. It also lets it stand up do DD Moxie Mence, not the biggest threat but if its brought out at the right time it could be a bitch. With Blissey passing Wishes the recovery won't really change much.


Heracross>Skarmory
Pros: You get an attacker, a revenge killer. He checks a lot of your threats.
Cons: It wrecks your SkarmBliss core and you lose out on a Phazer, Spiker and some overall bulk.

or

Volcarona>Skarmory
Pros: Pretty much the same as Heracross
Cons: Same as above.

Air Balloon>Leftovers on Heatran
Pros: Ground Immunity
Cons: No passive recovery

Gyro Ball>Volt Switch on Forretress
Pros: It deals good damage, especially on threats like Mamoswine
Cons: You are prone to being trapped by Magnezone and Volt Switch can gain some handy momentum

Stealth Rock>Roar on Heatran
Pros: you know what they are
Cons: Losing out on a Phazer

Spikes>Stealth Rock on Forretress
Pros: you get max hazards
Cons: it takes longer to set up

Wish>Seismic Toss on Blissey
Pros: Healing for the whole team. Giving Forretress and Heatran a second wind.
Cons: You can't deal damage and you become set up fodder.




Heatran (M) @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Stealth Rock
- Protect
- Toxic



Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Volt Switch/ Gyro Ball



Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Aromatherapy
- Softboiled
- Wish
- Toxic



Heracross (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Guts
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Close Combat
- Sleep Talk
- Earthquake/ Stone Edge

or



Volcarona (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP/ 60 Def/ 196 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
The speed EVs are to outspeed Jolly Mamoswine.


In the future you may want to explain some of your EV spreads because they are slightly unorthodox, I didn't want to change them because I figured that you had them for a reason. If you could take a little more time to explain them it will make rating much easier. Anyway great team, I hope I could help.
Good luck, cya
Click to expand...
Thanks for the rate!

Mamoswine has never been a problem for my Skarmory. When I run into one I always send out my Skarymory and get a free set up for spikes. Icicle Spear is sometimes a problem, only when it hits five times and get's a a crit on one of them. Gyro Ball on Forretress could be very useful, taking out Pokemon like Terrakion and such. I'll try that move.

Mixed Infernapes aren't very common but when I do see on it is a problem, especially when I don't see the overheat coming. I go into Hippowdon hoping he can take a special attack and KO it with Earthquake. This team does have a weakness to Mixed attackers.

I'll agree, Reuniclus is a problem. With its ability Magic Guard, my hazards don't damage it at all, so my only hope is to KO it with one of my Pokemon, something that my team isn't used to doing. Blissey can't really do much to stop it, neither can Heatran, usually my only hope is Jellicent but it most likely fails in KO'ing it. I sometimes go to Hippowdon to damage it as much as I can then hopefully killing it with another Pokemon.

I'll admit, I did get swept by a Breloom once with this team, I played bad and let it spore my Skarmory and it proceeded to KO all my Pokemon.

Scarf Heracross can deal with all these threats, but it would mess up my SkarmBliss core, and Skarmory helps a lot, but I'll give it a try and see how it does.

Bulky Volcarona also deals with my threats, but as I said, ruins my SkarmBliss core, but could sweep if played right, so I'll consider trying it out too.

Wish on Blissey would really help my Forretress and Heatran last longer. I could set up more hazards or deal with other Pokemon. But I think Aromatherapy + Wish on a Blissey is banned or something. I'm not really sure, I'll try it and see if it allows it.

With Wish I'll defiantly try Air Balloon on Heatran, so it doesn't get KO'ed by Earthquake or some other ground attack.
 

Episode36

You can always keep Jellicent and remove Blissey in favor of another decent Volt+Turn counter, Celebi. Celebi can learn both Leaf Storm (or Giga Drain) and HP Fire, both of which are powerful even uninvested, and enough to kill something like Scizor (unless under rain) and Rotom-W. You can run either physically defensive or specially defensive (if you replace Blissey with it) and it can learn Heal Bell (or aromatherapy) as well. Just something to think about. A set with Leaf Storm/HP Fire/Aromatherapy/Rest or Recover would do well.

As someone else pointed out, Amoonguss would also do very well for your team, putting to sleep one of your opponents pokemon, as well as being a good special defensive wall against all but something like Tornadus-T. It also, as someone else mentioned (and Celebi does this too) completes the great defensive core that F/W/G does.
 

CrackinSkulls

El Rey said:
But I think Aromatherapy + Wish on a Blissey is banned or something. I'm not really sure, I'll try it and see if it allows it.
Click to expand...
Heal Bell is your friend ;). Also trust me ForryBliss is just as good as SkarmBliss plus you can be passing wishes at the same time.
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
This team is a really fantastic example of hardcore Sand Stall and I am shocked that it hasn't gotten more rates or Luvdiscs by now. The lineup is solid and there's not much at all that beats it. However, there are a couple issues, which I will list now.

Firstly, though I love a good SkarmBliss core as much as the next stall user, it's not going to cut it in the current metagame. SubPunch Breloom creates major holes in your team, especially if it manages to Spore your Skarmory, and Bulk Up Breloom will singlehandedly dismantle the team. Moving on, as much as I like your Hippowdon set, it puts too much pressure on Forretress to set up both Stealth Rocks AND Toxic Spikes, combined with the responsibility of Rapid Spinning as well! You need to relieve the pressure on your spinner, or the team will never be able to function well in this metagame. Here is my suggestion: Remove Stealth Rocks from Forretress, and give them to Hippowdon in place of Ice Fang. Remove Blissey from the team, and replace it with Roserade. This gives your team the FWG core, Toxic Spikes, keeps a cleric on the team, and gives it a check to Breloom. That might have sounded sort of confusing, but the replacement sets you should be using are below.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Roar

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 132 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Aromatherapy
- Rest

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SAtk (0 Spd IVs)
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]


Hippowdon with rocks and Roserade with TSpikes relieves pressure to set up hazards on Forretress, leaving you open to run a favorite set of mine, Utility Forretress. It's a hybrid of the standard and HP Ice sets, and it alleviates your weakness to Taunt Gliscor, checks Mamoswine, Terrakion, and Landorus, and provides a defensive pivot to switch into other walls / seize an opportunity to lay hazards.

I like the team, it's definitely my style. The presentation of this RMT is absolutely stellar, I might add. Looks beautiful. Consider the changes I suggested, please! Luvdisc'd.
 

El Rey

Lavos Spawn said:
This team is a really fantastic example of hardcore Sand Stall and I am shocked that it hasn't gotten more rates or Luvdiscs by now. The lineup is solid and there's not much at all that beats it. However, there are a couple issues, which I will list now.

Firstly, though I love a good SkarmBliss core as much as the next stall user, it's not going to cut it in the current metagame. SubPunch Breloom creates major holes in your team, especially if it manages to Spore your Skarmory, and Bulk Up Breloom will singlehandedly dismantle the team. Moving on, as much as I like your Hippowdon set, it puts too much pressure on Forretress to set up both Stealth Rocks AND Toxic Spikes, combined with the responsibility of Rapid Spinning as well! You need to relieve the pressure on your spinner, or the team will never be able to function well in this metagame. Here is my suggestion: Remove Stealth Rocks from Forretress, and give them to Hippowdon in place of Ice Fang. Remove Blissey from the team, and replace it with Roserade. This gives your team the FWG core, Toxic Spikes, keeps a cleric on the team, and gives it a check to Breloom. That might have sounded sort of confusing, but the replacement sets you should be using are below.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Roar

Roserade @ Black Sludge
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 132 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Toxic Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Aromatherapy
- Rest

Forretress @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 SAtk (0 Spd IVs)
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]


Hippowdon with rocks and Roserade with TSpikes relieves pressure to set up hazards on Forretress, leaving you open to run a favorite set of mine, Utility Forretress. It's a hybrid of the standard and HP Ice sets, and it alleviates your weakness to Taunt Gliscor, checks Mamoswine, Terrakion, and Landorus, and provides a defensive pivot to switch into other walls / seize an opportunity to lay hazards.

I like the team, it's definitely my style. The presentation of this RMT is absolutely stellar, I might add. Looks beautiful. Consider the changes I suggested, please! Luvdisc'd.
Click to expand...
Hey, thanks for the rate! Not many people use stall in the current meta with all the new stuff in BW2.

I'm surprised how well Roserade could replace everything I would lose if I replaced Blissey and changed Forretress' set. I'll give Hippowdon Stealth Rock over Ice Fang and try the Forretress set you gave me. I'll consider your changes.
 

destinyunknown

Banned deucer.
Hey,

Nice stall team, but is pretty weak to VolTurn as you have already noticed, as a simple Rotom-W + Scizor core destroys your team without much prediction. You also have a slight weakness to Keldeo, as your only way to check it is Jellicent's Will-O-Wisp, which is a very shaky way to stop it. Since Skarmory is not really needed in your team, because Hippowdon, Jellicent and Forretress are enough to check most physical threats, you could replace it with Specially Defensive Celebi. Celebi is a good counter to VolTurn teams as well as Keldeo, and it can also help you dealing with Calm Mind Reuniclus, another pokemon you have trouble dealing with, thanks to Perish Song.

Celebi@Leftovers | Natural Cure
Calm Nature | 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire / Recover / Perish Song

While you're losing Spikes due to the lack of Skarmory, that can be fixed by simply using Spikes on Forretress instead of Stealth Rock, and using Stealth Rock over Toxic on Heatran. Another change I would consider doing is using Gyro Ball on Forretress instead of Toxic Spikes. Having Forretress to stack both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, while being your Rapid Spinner is generally overloading Forretress's capabilities, and Toxic Spikes are not really needed on your team anyway, and aren't very effective on the metagame due to the popularity of Amoonguss and Tentacruel. Gyro Ball lets Forretress get past Gengar, which would easily able to spinblock otherwise, and it's also a handy STAB move which can hit threats such as Haxorus or Terrakion.
 

El Rey

DestinyUnknown said:
Hey,

Nice stall team, but is pretty weak to VolTurn as you have already noticed, as a simple Rotom-W + Scizor core destroys your team without much prediction. You also have a slight weakness to Keldeo, as your only way to check it is Jellicent's Will-O-Wisp, which is a very shaky way to stop it. Since Skarmory is not really needed in your team, because Hippowdon, Jellicent and Forretress are enough to check most physical threats, you could replace it with Specially Defensive Celebi. Celebi is a good counter to VolTurn teams as well as Keldeo, and it can also help you dealing with Calm Mind Reuniclus, another pokemon you have trouble dealing with, thanks to Perish Song.

Celebi@Leftovers | Natural Cure
Calm Nature | 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire / Recover / Perish Song

While you're losing Spikes due to the lack of Skarmory, that can be fixed by simply using Spikes on Forretress instead of Stealth Rock, and using Stealth Rock over Toxic on Heatran. Another change I would consider doing is using Gyro Ball on Forretress instead of Toxic Spikes. Having Forretress to stack both Spikes and Toxic Spikes, while being your Rapid Spinner is generally overloading Forretress's capabilities, and Toxic Spikes are not really needed on your team anyway, and aren't very effective on the metagame due to the popularity of Amoonguss and Tentacruel. Gyro Ball lets Forretress get past Gengar, which would easily able to spinblock otherwise, and it's also a handy STAB move which can hit threats such as Haxorus or Terrakion.
Click to expand...
Hey Destiny, thanks for the rate!

I am considering relieving Forretress stree by having to set up hazards AND rapid spin. And you're right, toxic spikes isn't really useful in the current meta. With Pokemon such as Tentacruel, Amoonguss, etc being able to absorb them when they come on to the field is annoying to someone who lost a turn setting them up. Also Steel types are immune to my toxic spikes, the only reason why I bother using Toxic Spikes is to try to poison a weather summoner like Politoed, but it isn't really worth it. Gyro Ball on Forretress is something I will try.

As for Celebi, I'll give it a try. Skarmory is used to for extra defense and to set up spikes but I'll replace toxic spikes with spikes on Forretress and give Stealth Rock to Hippowdon. Celebi does stop the annoying Volt Turn which is something this team needs.
 

shadowxevo

Two things:
- I'd give Hippowdon Whirlwind instead of Roar, just in case.
- Imo, Hidden Power [Ice] is actually a lot stronger against the stuff that Forretress walls a lot better than Gyro Ball (namely Gliscor), so I suggest the spread of 252 HP | 220 Def | 36 SAtk.

Glhf
 

El Rey

shadowxevo said:
Two things:
- I'd give Hippowdon Whirlwind instead of Roar, just in case.
- Imo, Hidden Power [Ice] is actually a lot stronger against the stuff that Forretress walls a lot better than Gyro Ball (namely Gliscor), so I suggest the spread of 252 HP | 220 Def | 36 SAtk.

Glhf
Click to expand...
I always thought Whirlwind was a typo for Roar, lol. I'll give it Whirlwind. And HP Ice is something I was planning on giving Forretress anyways. I'll try out your EV's on Forretress. Thanks for the rate!
 
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