Well the moderators/badged users are clearly more knowledgeable than me so who am I to question them? That set was made quite some time ago so back then it may not have been so effective, but who knows about now. Steelix is not meant to be offensive to begin with anyways, so I doubt it's as effective as its standard sets.
Hey now, no need to end off a paragraph full of relevant information with "now you can stop being a terrible person".
Anyway, the main reason for the status blocking is just that paralysis and burn really mucks with a large part of my team and Starmie just doesn't have good match-ups against a large portion of the status spreading Pokemon. It's really more of a bonus than a requirement; the way Substitute allows Gyarados to wear down or just straight up KO checks and allows to sweep with such ease is the main draw. However I have made extensive use of the status absorbing function of the sub in the past.
As for your new suggestions, those are some really good ideas. It'd probably shift the team from being offensive to being more balanced but I'm cool with that, as long as I have ways to counteract the set-up a more balanced team invites. I had been considering Celebi myself for some time, but not over top of Hydreigon. Now that you mention it, it does make a lot of sense. I might not have the same nuking qualities I did before but the wallbreaking aspect isn't as necessary as it seemed. I have to say I will miss obliterating something every time it switched in though :(. I do question how Celebi can actually REMOVE Ferrothorn though, as while it does wall it completely I doubt HP Fire will do the trick in the rain, and giving it free reign to set up Spikes would be very bad.
As for the steel type over Mamo, I can see why you're saying that but we have to be careful. Pick the wrong steel and it could just be inviting set-up and making it so new Pokemon wall me. With Hydreigon gone I have to think more carefully about ensuring I'm not walled, and without Mamo I need to be careful that I don't give any opportunities for Pokemon like Landorus-I/T or Thundurus-T to boost up and sweep. I think there's probably a solution in there somewhere though.
Thanks for the help, this was much more productive. I'm sorry if I made you angry but I can't ever seem to pass up the opportunity for a good debate and you provided me with a particularly juicy one. No hard feelings I hope?
Rotom-W, a single Pokemon is your only argument? (there IS no "etc" after Rotom-W, there are literally no other OU Pokemon that can switch in safely on a subbed Gyarados and threaten it that can't also do so to band or scarf). It's not like Gyarados is going to fare a lot better against Rotom-W with a choice item anyway. While you could destroy it on the switch with Band, Rotom-W outspeeds you and can take an unboosted (from choice scarf) Double-Edge and KO back, meaning Gyarados will have to switch anyway if it predict right on it coming in. I could use the same prediction with my current Gyarados to switch to a counter/check. This ability to hit Rotom-W on the switch is in exchange for depriving me of my status blocker, forcing my team to eat Thunder-Waves (Don't say Jolteon or Mamo Take care of that, they get pummeled by common T-Wave users), Toxics, Leech Seeds, etc, and deprives me of my single most effective sweeper. All because I'd lose 12.5% HP (Don't forget the 2 turns of leftovers recovery; I can stay in perfectly safely for one turn with that sub up) when Rotom-W switches in. Which is less than Bulky Rotom-W would take from even an unboosted Waterfall outside of rain with leftovers recovery. Oh, and if that Rotom is choiced like so many are, and uses an electric attack on that sub? Free switch to two of my Pokemon that love getting free switches!
The Gyarados I have benefits much more from the pairing with Jolteon because of all the set-up opportunities Jolteon supplies. It just so happens that most of Jolteon's checks are set-up fodder for Sub-Gyarados. This fact has led to Gyarados becoming my most accomplished sweeper and probably my all around MVP. It gets tonnes of set up opportunities and can take advantage of them like no other. This is unlike Band and Scarf Gyarados, which require the opposing team to be seriously weakened to sweep, and can very easily provide the opponent with momentum. There's a reason that Bulky DD Gyarados is the first set on the Smogon analysis (yes they are organized in order of prevalence, I've written analyses before).
Thereby I conclude that my team utilizes Gyarajolt just fine. It doesn't use it the same way band or scarf does it, but it's just as effective, if not more. Your argument about losing HP setting up subs on unfavorable switches doesn't add up because the opponent is always going to be getting the short end of the stick regardless. If you have any advice on how to address my team's ACTUAL problems (like the weakness to scarfed dragons, Stone Edge carriers and Starmie) then I'd be glad to hear those. What I don't need to hear is more pride based arguments because you can't get over the fact that you were wrong.
I warned people in the conclusion that I do this sort of thing :P
And you don't understand. Yes Band and Scarf Gyarados are strong in the rain, but they are not what my team needs. My team NEEDS that extra bulk, my team CAN'T afford to have a Jellicent switch in to Waterfall and start firing off will-o-wisps and scalds, or an opposing Gyarados to switch in on an Earthquake and get a free dragon dance or substitute.
And for the record, not alone on this. Just to be sure I wasn't mistaken I went into the RMT channel to make sure I wasn't missing anything with regards to your suggestion... everyone pretty much agreed with me. Now, don't embarrass yourself further and let it drop eh?
If you're really so experienced then why did you make suggestions with such clear holes? Maybe you do have battling experience, (I honestly don't know how good getting into PO's top 10 is these days.) but that doesn't change the fact you gave a really bad team rate. If you disagree with that statement, telling me your battling credentials won't do any good to convince me; I need actual counter-arguments. I don't judge a suggestion based on the person submitting it, I judge it based on how good the suggestion is. I maintain that your suggestions were poorly thought out (they actually aggravate my team's weaknesses instead of solving them), probably because you weren't looking at the big picture when making them.
This isn't to say you can't make good suggestions, you just need a better understanding of how to do it. If you've gotten the top 10 on any major ladder you probably understand how to win. But that alone isn't going to cut it, rating is different from battling. It requires you to step into the shoes of the person whose you're rating for a moment. You need to first understand the team your rating, it's goals, it's strengths and its weaknesses and then figure out how to fix weaknesses without compromising those strengths and goals. Simply replacing the sets I'm using with the ones you use on your own teams isn't going to cut it, because your teams are not the same as my team. You need to think about the changes you're suggesting in the context of the team you're rating.
I admit I assumed you were a novice because of the terrible suggestions and the fact I hadn't seen you anywhere else before, and that I probably should not have made such and assumption. I might've been wrong about that, but the fact that I DID mistake you for a novice should tell you that maybe you were doing something wrong.
Yeah but the reason was wrong that's what I was saying. How did it change the sole purpose of the team? A specially defensive Rotom-W switch to a specially defensive Jellicent is hardly changing the purpose of the team. A few others even agreed from what I remember. Jellicent is perfect for the team, gives an actual spin blocker. Since the person is spending so much time getting spikes and rocks up, they should have a decent spin blocker. Why do you not understand this? OP even said they took into consideration but might not change it. Does not need to delete my post or many other people's (though maybe they warranted a delete, I don't know). I know my post did not though. Thank you.
Edit: I am not smart with mods, my language skill in English is poor though, I apologize.
ah, your valuable post (that also changes the purpose of the team) is what triggered the responses i am receiving. you're changing the purpose of the team, and i fail to find what you say valuable. i gave you a reason in my last vm so try not to act so smart with mods. thank you.
Harsha what do you mean, multiple others reinforce my views in posts in the thread, even OP said they were being unreasonable in questioning me even though might not use my suggestion. Also I already stopped posting in there, if you read my first post I say I can only think of one thing, only after OP called me out I post to defend self in which I was right and OP was wrong OP said so themself. Thank you.
please stop posting in Beautiful Life, you obviously don't understand how Froslass works and you're not giving any useful advice. i'm receiving complaints about your posting in there, so instead of infracting you i'll just tell you nicely.
Hey, like the team. 4 Pokemon immune to ground. Good balance between checking physical and special threats between Landorus-T, Rotom-W, and Heatran. A bit fighting weak, might not be too big an issue. Will give fuller rate later.
here's your post
don't make posts saying you're gonna post a full rate later if you don't offer any solution. These posts are useless.
"Good looking team. It's like you went inside your head, thought about Pokemon that other people hate to face and always have to factor in heavily on their threat lists, and then made a team with all of those Pokemon. Everyone hates facing Dragonite, Breloom, Landorus, Genesect, Rotom-W, and Terrakion. Probably 6 of the top 10 threats people hate to face, so for that, nice work."
This is neither a rate nor anything useful :/
Don't worry though, I've deleted multiple posts like this one in that thread, you're definitely not the only one.