"Event Moves": their impact and their legacy

As you are probably well aware of already, there has very recently been a blanket ban implemented on all "event moves" on ShoddyBattle. This may seem confusing to some people- what moves will be affected? How much will the face of the game be changed by this? What else could come of this? Well, this thread was created for the purposes of explaining what will be impacted, discussing the impact that these moves have on the current metagame, and what will happen to the metagame once these rare moves are eliminated.

First off, why are these moves suspect for a ban? Many would argue that in order to keep ShoddyBattle in line with the cartridges, these extra moves really have no place in the game due to their very limited distribution. On top of that, with the new IV/Nature restrictions added to ShoddyBattle combined with the fact that Nintendo has not released a statement outlining exactly which pokemon were distributed, there is not enough reliable information to confirm which combonations of IVs, Nature and event moves are possible. Basically, nobody is really sure if these things even exist.

But this topic is not about WHY they are being banned, it is about the effects that this ban will have.

To begin to understand the impact of their banning, we should first look at their impact on the current metagame. Quite a few popular movesets contain moves that will be covered under this ban. I'll go through some of the most significant ones. I will be listing the evolved, competitive form of the pokemon here, but it is worth noting that in almost all cases, the pre-evo is the one who gets the event move.

Blissey
- Wish

WishBliss, by far the best special wall in the game, will become the pokemon most affected by this ban. In my experience, this has been the most popular Blissey set since Advance. If you were around then, you may remember just how *~INSTYLE~* it really was. With the "threat" of Wish healing teammates gone, Blissey becomes a lot more of a liability to a team. With its best support option gone as well as losing the set that Protect was pretty much designed for, Blissey loses quite a bit from this. Now, the option of utilizing Wishpassing to benefit stall-oriented teammates that lack healing of their own such as Forretress, Bronzong and Wobbuffet is gone, which can make defensive teams much more vulnerable. In addition to being less of a help to teammates, Protect will be taking up space in a valuable moveslot for Blissey and will likely not be used. This makes Blissey much more vulnerable to physical switch-ins, most notably Tyranitar's Choice Banded Pursuit, and also forces Blissey to switch instead of instigating long stall battles with Protect. Also, Blissey becomes more vulnerable to things such as Explosion from Heatran and Gengar since it can no longer scout for movesets. This is certainly the most important change in the game that we will be seeing as a result of this.

Wobbuffet
- Tickle

Another blockbuster move to be affected by this ban. If you don't believe me about how controversial this event move is, just check Jumpman16's Wobbuffet discussion thread in this forum (it will probably be on the front page for a long time). Wobbuffet's Shadow Tag + Encore + Tickle means that the next pokemon that comes in can put a serious dent in the Ticklee with Pursuit, or force a switch so it can set itself up otherwise. With this gone, Wobbuffet's imposing presense on the game could be diminished slightly and it may not have the same devastating effects that it does on slow, defensive teams that it does now.

Salamence
- Wish
- Iron Defense

WishMence, which was one of the premier counters to Fighting-types in advance, still has some viability in D/P OU. Salamence's Intimidate causes a lot of switches, giving it plenty of free turns in which to heal teammates. Although not as popular anymore because of the advent of Life Orb and Choice Specs, this is still a top-notch defender. For what it's worth, Bagon will no longer be able to use Iron Defense either.

Vileplume/Bellossom
- Leech Seed

One of the improvements to a very solid UU tank, Leech Seed, will sadly be affected by this ban as well. When choosing between Meganium and Vileplume, it was often a toss-up between Double Powder and Leech Seed. This move saw Vileplume's usage in UU rise quite a bit, but we will once again be forced to make that choice when looking for a solid UU grasser.

Exeggutor
- Wish

Another UU Grass-type loses out, and another Wisher loses a good form of team support. Eggy can run much better sets, but Wish support is always great considering its good typing and solid defensive stats.

Swellow
- Featherdance

One of the few useful things that Swellow can do in terms of team support. If you want your burned Swellow to take a few more shots before the damage piles up, I guess this could work for hitting a switch-in on the turn that your Burn Orb activates.

Hypno
- Wish
- Belly Drum

Hypno is pretty much a staple wall in UU, and Wish is most of the reason why. It works well as a UU Blissey, and with its solid typing, base stats and Insomnia it can withstand quite a beating. This will probably see Hypno's usage drop quite a bit, maybe in favor of something like Grumpig. Belly Drum Hypno is quite the surprise and is a pretty solid choice. Too bad it's illegal with Baton Pass anyways :(

Lickilicky
- Heal Bell
- Wish

Two great support options will probably force Lickilicky into more of an attacking role, which is a shame because its stats are actually decent in this gen.

Kangaskhan
- Yawn
- Wish

Another solid UU Wisher out the window. Yawn + Focus Punch was a pretty good combo on Kangaskhan, where in UU, forcing switches is usually the key to winning.

Farfetch'd
- Yawn
- Wish

hahahaha. Gamefreak really hates Farfetch'd. Either that, or someone there had a vendetta against ducks...or something.

Gallade
- Wish

Gardevoir and Gallade both get Wish as an event move, but it would only be banned for Gallade since Gardevoir learns Wish by level in D/P anyways. This really isn't that big of a deal because Gallade has so many better options for a moveset, but it emphasizes just how many pokemon lose Wish because of this.

Cacturne
- Encore

Cacturne is a very interesting pokemon with its pretty unique stat distribution, and Encore only helps it predict right so that its attack power isn't wasted. Encore a harmless move, then enjoy the benefits of a free Swords Dance or Substitute.

Pikachu/Raichu
- Fly

Not really a significant change to their movepool, but I decided to list it for nostalgia's sake. I for one am going to miss my flying yellow rat :(

Persian
- Petal Dance

I guess this could be used to OHKO Golem, but there are much better moves for Persian and this one won't be missed.

Spinda
- Sing

Spinda has a gigantic movepool, and sleep is a pretty good status...but Sing's accuracy is generally not worth it. Again, this is a move that probably hasn't been used yet on Shoddy so I don't think people are going to flip over this. Plus, as Great Sage pointed out, it gets Hypnosis anyways so why did I even bother writing this paragraph?

Absol
- Spite
- Wish

Not really used in lieu of Absol's very solid attacking stats and Swords Dance, but these moves are both pretty useful in their own right.

(If I missed any, or if I mislabeled something, please let me know. I am not an authority on in-game learnsets and would appreciate the help)

Now that the list is there, what does this actually mean? Will UU be shaken up by the lack of Wish Hypno? Will Blissey stay in the top 3 of usages without its precious Wish+Protect combo? What are your opinions on where competitive pokemon will be a month after this is implemented?

Have you used any of these sets with any success? Which moves do you feel are valuable to the game as a whole?

What impact is this ban going to have on the game? Discuss, answer questions, pose new questions that we may have missed. As long as you read the thread carefully before trying to make a point, your input is appreciated.

edit- updated list with all significant moves that have been removed from ShoddyBattle. This list has been implemented and as of now is the "official list". There are a couple more, but they are only things like Mud Sport and Sweet Scent and aren't important enough to change the game, so they dont even warrant a discussion. I encourage you to post if there are any errors or omissions within this list.

I know you said this isn't a discussion about why these moves are being banned, but with Surfing Pikachu being READILY available through Battle Revolution, why is it being banned? I had thought that the other moves were being banned because we couldn't track where they had originated from, in addition with the IVs of event move pokemon being set at mediocre/low levels along with set natures. Couldn't Surf be restricted to Hardy Pikachu? Or is that needless difficult coding? (This question is posed to Colin, should he see it). Anyways sorry, that's all I'll ask about the "why".

As for the ban itself, I'm seeing this affecting Wobbuffet and Blissey the most of any other Pokemon (I don't play UU so I can't comment on Hypno currently). Wob in particular is much less of a threat and hopefully won't be seen as being "as cheap", and reduces its impact/threat level on something like Swampert, I suppose. Maybe this will lead to more widespread usage? I'm thinking yes, since Wobbuffet really only has the "trap and kill" or "trap and encore to bring in a setupper" strategies now.

Blissey, I feel, is becoming less and less viable in the current metagame, and this just puts the nail in the coffin. Sure, it's still the best special sponge out there, but the inability to Wishpass or stall through using Wish will hurt its ability to support the bulky sweepers that are currently dominating the metagame. I feel its spot is going to drop because its uses as a cleric (Aromatherapy) being less useful in the current metagame and the aformentioned loss of Wishpassing will leave it with little to no options to counter the bulkier attackers it will face with only Seismic Toss and Ice Beam.

Good topic.

As you've rightly stated, by far the most significant change will be the absence of WishBliss - while at this point in time we can only speculate how this will affect the metagame, I actually see it as a positive thing, as WishBliss was staple on many a Stall Team these days, especially with the emergence of Wobbuffet on them. I have little doubt that she'll stay among the top 5 in the usage list for months to come though.

Tickle Wobbuffet is the second most significant casualty in OU, and what it means is simply one less option for Wobbuffet to exert, and one more disadvantage for him. Since this was not moveset around for long to begin with, it's absence will obviously be felt to a smaller extent than WishBliss.

In UU, one can see a bit of losses for some primary walls, but with the pathetic popularity and respect the UU metagame gets in general, this will hardly be a big concern for too many people.

Surfing Pikachu only comes in Hardy Nature and we are unsure about its specific IVs.

I am most interested in Wish Blissey and how far will blissey drop in usage. I think Salamence will be fine having access to roost and he isnt meant to defend. But Blissey even with Softboiled, is the oh so amazing special wall because of wish. Think about hoe many sets of hers are now worthless, especially obibliss =0.

Surf Pikachu won't be removed. Neither will things like Extremespeed Zigzagoon as those aren't events; they are from obscure games. Any Pokemon that can be obtained from a commercially available and infinitely renewable source is still going to be allowed.

Encore Cacnea is probably the biggest non-listed loss. Also, for what it's worth, Salamence is also losing Iron Defense!

Blissey will be taking a full-blown shot with severe wounds to scar in the aftermath. Wish was the best support (substancially better than Aromatheraphy) that Blissey had to offer, as we all know that 50% of health is significant for sure. Now that this has been confiscated from its movepool, we will have to resort to other reliable supporters who can effectively pass Wish around with success.

This brings me onto my second point: Who suffered more - Blissey or Wish support? Because not only does Blissey have to strole on without Wish, but so does Salamence. After all, there weren't many successful and reliable Wish passers to begin with, and now the academy takes a huge blow in losing two of them. This leaving us with Vaporeon, Jirachi and Togekiss from what I can distinctly remember - which is indoubtably a short, weakened list for Wish support. Summarizing, has Wish support taken the bombshell while Blissey was left with a few shot wounds?

Note that Gallade will lose Wish too. While Gardevoir can learn Wish naturally in D/P, Kirlia, Ralts, and Gallade can't.

Excellent thread jrrrrrrr, I was actually hoping someone would make a thread like this so I could see just how much is being affected by this "blanket ban". Just for personal reasons, I'm very glad Blissey is losing Wish; when I say personal reasons, I mean that when I battle on Wi-Fi, I end up facing a lot of Pokésavers. Before this, their excuse was that if it was on Shoddy, it was on Wi-Fi; this is how Wish Blissey gained popularity at sites full of hacks like Marriland. However, I wish there was more information on such event Pokémon so that they could be allowed, but only with certain IV + Nature combinations, similar to the legend implementation which recently occurred. As for predictions... I doubt Blissey will drop in usage much. It is still the undeniable greatest Special Wall and will continue to be used at its high rate. However, I do foresee an increase in Jirachi / Vaporeon usage, as they will be the best available Wish users now.

It's hard for me to have much say in what happens in the UU Metagame as I'm estranged to that world. However, I've always thought WisHypno was a huge factor in the metagame, and I'm not sure what effect this will bring about.

Also, does anyone know if there are Ubers being affected by the "blanket ban"?

I'm very sad about not having my Leech Seed Vileplume on Shoddy :( Meganium will probably end up filling in the slot for me, and probably for a few others aswell.

Wow, I can't believe I forgot this. Another pretty popular UU Sweeper is going to lose its Event Move, assuming Colin remembers it... Linoone gets Extreme Speed via Pokémon Box. Heh, at least the trading boards have some great ones. :) Just something to add.

Pulse said:

Wow, I can't believe I forgot this. Another pretty popular UU Sweeper is going to lose its Event Move, assuming Colin remembers it... Linoone gets Extreme Speed via Pokémon Box. Heh, at least the trading boards have some great ones. :) Just something to add.

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This deserves emphasis so I will repost it:

Amazing Ampharos said:

Surf Pikachu won't be removed. Neither will things like Extremespeed Zigzagoon as those aren't events; they are from obscure games. Any Pokemon that can be obtained from a commercially available and infinitely renewable source is still going to be allowed.

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jrrrrrrr said:

Gardevoir/Gallade
- Charm

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Kirlia learns it at level 45.

Well there goes my Belly Drum Salac Hypno. I think this will open up the game for Special Sweepers more. Less Blissy and Hippno = More Specs Lucario and rampaging Ampharos.

I can't say that it won't be nice to see a decrease in Wish Hypno in UU but some of the others really hurt. I really think that this can only have a major impact on UU because, on most teams, Hypno is the special wall used. As such, I don't see it being useful at all without a way to recover. Sure it does have some great support moves including Light Screen and Thunderwave but it simply cannot take repeated switchin's with its newfound lack of recovery. As a result, that is why I feel that Hypno use will decrease significantly to be replaced by who knows what. Mantine and Shuckle appear to be popular alternatives but it is really hard to say. The only other special wall with Wish is Clefable but her fighting weak may still keep her in a different niche on teams.

Let's keep on topic guys, read the bolded statement in the OP, perhaps.

There will be infractions from this point on. Discuss the effects on the metagame, not some technical point that is out of the scope of this discussion.

I'm thinking that Blissey usage can't drop too far, assuming that there are enough people like me who avoid using any moves that they can't obtain on Wifi. I use a Blissey on all my teams where it's allowed, but have never used it with Wish. It's doable, for those of you who've forgotten. Besides, what other choice do you have for a special wall? We all know the individual problems with all of the other special defensively oriented pokemon out there.

However, I believe Hypno usage will fall dramatically. I tried to use it on my UU team once without using any event moves (or any XD moves, since I've yet to see any good Baton Pass Hypnos in the Wifi forums). It just plain doesn't work. All you really have to choose from are Psychic, Seismic Toss, Hypnosis, Thunder Wave, Reflect, Light Screen, Substitute, and Rest/Sleep Talk (with Forewarn). Not great for a special tank. Even if you were to go with the Nasty Plot/Baton Pass set, it still suffers from lack of a recovery move.

This brings me onto my second point: Who suffered more - Blissey or Wish support? Because not only does Blissey have to strole on without Wish, but so does Salamence. After all, there weren't many successful and reliable Wish passers to begin with, and now the academy takes a huge blow in losing two of them. This leaving us with Vaporeon, Jirachi and Togekiss from what I can distinctly remember - which is indoubtably a short, weakened list for Wish support. Summarizing, has Wish support taken the bombshell while Blissey was left with a few shot wounds?

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I found Jirachi to be one of the better Wish users in the game - especially with U Turn so it can take hits from faster things so it can nullify the opponent's attempt to "predict" the Wish receiver.

In the meanwhile, I see that from using Togekiss I found it to be pathetic in the department of trying to pass Wish - the 25% it takes every time it switches in just means that it needs to Roost right away or else risk dying. This leaves us with a very few options for Wish Passing

With Vaporeon and Jirachi the only real Wish users I would really say that it's going to really hard to get that Wish Support now - perhaps this would mean the use of things such as Foresstress, Bronzong, Swampert (or perhaps the increase in use of Restalk Swampert?) those Tank/Walls without immediate healing support might suffer.

About Blissey - somehow I feel Wish is the only real reason to use it instead of thinking of a good combination of Pokemon that can take down the plethora of offensive Pokemon. Blissey use will definitely go down - although I wonder how much - most players have found a way to deal with special threats without the use of Blissey (even if Blissey is *the* best special wall in the game) - and perhaps more will find a way to leave without it.

This could mean that the metagame might turn a bit more offensive - away from the "bulky offensive" so to speak - with walls/tanks suddenly being a lot easier to break down or having really limited moveslots with Restalk, and the decrease of Blissey, and more reliance of resistance and other factors to deal with Special threats.

For one thing I believe this will solidify Wobbufett into OU. Tickle was what made it broken completely broken in the first place. I think a lot more people will realize that it truly is not broken in OU and it's usage should go up.

One very specific thing we might see with Blissey is the use of more special defense Evs on the calm set to deal with SpecsLuke. Which would make Blissey more open to strong pursuiters like CBTar.

I'm overall in agreement with Tangerine, I think we might even see some more diversity in our special attackers. With less Blissey use, we might see more of our once vaunted friend Specsmence or Porygon-Z.

On a slightly slide note, what have the smogon decision makers thought about this? It might prove to be a sticky subject for the small amount of people who do have legit wish blisseys and the super cool kids who like to pokesav wishbliss. Personally I would be all for the blanket ban happening on Smogon as well.

tuskate said:

On a slightly slide note, what have the smogon decision makers thought about this? It might prove to be a sticky subject for the small amount of people who do have legit wish blisseys and the super cool kids who like to pokesav wishbliss. Personally I would be all for the blanket ban happening on Smogon as well.

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Are you talking about a blanket ban over WiFi like I think you are? I kind of doubt that would ever happen, and would bo totally opposed to it. I was under the impression that the issue here was that we couldn't get reliable statistics for the natures/IVs possible with these moves. Well if you do have one ingame then there's obviously no issue, as if you're willing to use it with whatever random IVs/Nature the RNG spat out that I think you deserve at least the choice to use it.

When you get onto the people using Pokesav to manufacture their own Wish Blisseys for use on WiFi then we've always looked down upon Saving Pokemon for battling and probably always will, and a few people Saving 31's Wish Blisseys shouldn't be enough to warrant a complete ban...

More ontopic than before, the lack of wishpassers bringing more offence into the game has been mentioned but not of more walls having their own recovery. While previously you may have been able to get away with Swampert passing from Blissey without that Wish Support some Pokemon like Milotic (not best example, but whatever. Gastrodon perhaps lol) who have their own recovery could become superior choices, even having the exact opposite effect of making the metagame more stall war dependant. (Toxic usage rise anyone?)

Wish Hypno Noooooooooooooo....

I seriously think that's the one that hurts the most. All the others are either not really used or have other options available. Like blissey can still softboiled, mence can still roost, vileplume can run one of its other support options. Hypno without a healing move ruins it completely.

With this change, my prediction will probably be an increase in grumpig usage as the new dominating special wall of UU. Alternatively, there may be a shift towards using forewarn hypno with rest-talk over wish-protect. Still takes sleep sort of well but you lose the team support power of wish... :(

Sunday said:

Are you talking about a blanket ban over WiFi like I think you are? I kind of doubt that would ever happen, and would bo totally opposed to it. I was under the impression that the issue here was that we couldn't get reliable statistics for the natures/IVs possible with these moves. Well if you do have one ingame then there's obviously no issue, as if you're willing to use it with whatever random IVs/Nature the RNG spat out that I think you deserve at least the choice to use it.

When you get onto the people using Pokesav to manufacture their own Wish Blisseys for use on WiFi then we've always looked down upon Saving Pokemon for battling and probably always will, and a few people Saving 31's Wish Blisseys shouldn't be enough to warrant a complete ban...

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A few people? There's no doubt 99% of all WishBliss / Ticklefett / Wishmence you see on wifi have been pokesav'd with a beneficial nature and high (if not max) IVs.

I fail to see how this is any different from shoddy - the primary difference would be that a ban is obviously harder to introduce to wifi, because you can't just disable said moves, but it could definitely be done.

You can't really verify (or at least prove) whether your opponent's WishBliss is modest with 4 HP IVs or Bold with 31 in all on wifi - thus a blanket ban seems appropriate.

Oh, and Wigglytuff will lose Tickle as well =X

Let's not discuss bans on WiFi, this is NOT what this topic is about.

jrrrrrrr said:

Removed Belly Drum from Hypno- its an XD move.

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Actually Belly Drum was given away with Wish, so it's a NYPC move (they're a "combo", just like with Lickilicky).

Hypno's real XD move is Baton Pass.

Hahahahaha!!! With the fall of wish hypno, my offensive UU team will kick even more ass!!! >:D Die shwein!!

If offensive teams didn't work before (they do btw), they'll work even better now, especially in UU. Time to remove all the all the stupid random anti-hypno measures, because from here out he can just eat all those attacks he would usually "absorb." Let's see you absorb Lapras' hydropump now pig . . .

But on a side note, I'm happy to see Wish Blissey go to. Actually, to be honest, I'm really looking forward to this ban!! :D

Hells no Belly Drum Batton Pass Hypno owns, kids dont see it coming....ever.

The Tang said:

With Vaporeon and Jirachi the only real Wish users I would really say that it's going to really hard to get that Wish Support now - perhaps this would mean the use of things such as Foresstress, Bronzong, Swampert (or perhaps the increase in use of Restalk Swampert?) those Tank/Walls without immediate healing support might suffer.

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Any way, Tangerine is totally right here. The usage of things such as Foresstress and Swampy will def drop with out something to pass a wish to it.

EDIT: I'm looking forward to this as well.