The Su(b)perior Squad! ~An RMT

A cheesy title, but I couldn't think of anything better. Oh well. Here is the team that I struck "gold" with. It is quite an impressive team I may add, and it only loses in weird situations such as hax (I hate these kind of loses too). Otherwise, there are a few bumps here and there, but its perhaps one of the most solid teams I've ever built. Of course, I do have to thank a few people:

- Great Sage. Well okay, he was kind of against using Rhyperior, but he gave a little bit of an idea with the core Pokemon in general.
- SoT. He helped me in a few situations with this team. Hope it continues to climb. And helped me structure things a little better.
- My special thread for advertising how much of a threat this set can be.

UPDATE 1.0
- Made Tyranitar a Mixed Dancer
- Added Protect over Toxic
- Scizor is now the Choice Band variant

So here is the team at a glance:

And here is the descriptions!


Tyranitar (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 116 Atk/144 SpA/248 Spe
Hasty nature (+Spe, -Def)
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Earthquake
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The Mixed Dragon Dancer was something SoT suggested to me. It is powerful with one Dragon Dance, and it clears SkarmBliss if I'm lucky. Bad against Infernape leads but the next Pokemon can handle that. Overall, a good addition.


Vaporeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Roar
---

When it comes to recieving Water-type attacks, Roaring, coming into Infernape, or shutting down a Salamence...? Vaporeon is there for me. Being very sturdy, I use Wish and Protect to help me out while Hidden Power Electric maims Gyarados. Good.


Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Overheat
- Trick
---

This > Heatran. Its a fairly better revenge killer with its slightly bigger movepool. Overheat is risky, but it helps. Trick is my weapon against Stall teams: Pass it to Blissey and let everything else handle things. Its a fairly reliable Pokemon for my team.


Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk, -Def)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Brick Break
- Roost
---

I needed an extra offensive push, so I've turned to MixMence. It can shut down many of Rhyperior's counters too if played correctly, so it looked even better to me. Roost is fairly situational, but gives me a second reason to live. That, and there's no fear of Cresselia with Tyranitar, Rhyperior, Scizor, and Rotom-H aiding me.


Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 40 HP/252 Atk/216 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- SuperPower
- Pursuit
---

I can still fall back on Pursuit with Scizor, while Choice Band Bullet Punch causing major damage. U-Turn is very useful, easing prediction as well as harming the incoming Pokemon. Superpower is something I'm rather unsure of but the extra power is welcome.



Rhyperior (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Solid Rock
EVs: 132 HP/196 Atk/164 Spd/16 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
---

Endgame. This Pokemon isn't really a late-game sweeper, but rather a good scout and early-game piercer. This set alone is devestating to a team that carries rather weaker Pokemon. If I can set up the Substitute, Swampert decides to come in, I'll simply Swords Dance and fire it out with STAB Earthquake. The Speed is always going to be an issue, but its not as big as I've thought it would be. And by the way, this thing survives a lot of hits despite what many people think. All in all, the crucial Pokemon in my team.

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There are really only a few minor setbacks to this team. Stall IS still a pain in the ass, but also Salamence scares me. I mean, to rely on Heatran to revenge kill him isn't a good thing, and damage Scizor isn't either. Lacking Stealth Rock is another, but my team doesn't have a lot of time to set it up. But I've thought of a couple of solutions so listen closely.

The first was finding a Mixed Sweeper. I remember MS posting about the Mixed Togekiss and I've been wanting to try this set out for quite a while. It might not fit so bad in my team with all the Earthquake-weaks and such. AND, it has Roost backing it up when its switching in and out.

- Aura Sphere
- Flamethrower
- Extremespeed
- Roost

This is the set I am pondering over.

The next was a better revenge killer. I'm not going to lie, but I hate how I have to rely on a ScarfHeatran to take a few things on and, being vulnerable to some of those attacks that I am weak to. Seems rather redundant. I'd like to try Rotom-H with a Choice Scarf to remedy this:

- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick / Hidden Power Ground

Could be useful. Rotom-W would be another good candidate for something like this too.

I've pondered how to juggle Tyranitar and Scizor's roles. I think Scizor could easily use the Choice Band while Tyranitar could use another moveset and a different item to benefit the team. Choice Band Scizor would give me a little leeway to a few things too.

Though the Infernape weakness might become bigger, I've thought of Celebi over and over for one reason: Roost on Scizor over X-Scissor. But, this could be really bad for my situation. Another Earthquake buffer wouldn't be so bad though.

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Don't let my negativity above fool you because this is an excellent team in my opinion. It needs work, but a lot of teams do. I think that even as is it is threatening to begin with and solid within itself. Though, I could be very wrong.

Okay, first thing that comes to mind is that you're Lucario weak, and you're Heracross weak. Both of which can be handled pretty well by a Rotom-H, so I would probably suggest that over Zapdos or Heatran. Preferably Zapdos though, since I guess it can pretty much do the ame thing, just a bit more bulky while doing soo. You really don't even have to drop Zapdos, you could just make it bulkier so you could keep the team together, just with a few minor changes.

Zapdos @ Leftover
Modest
252 HP/176 Speed/80 Sp. Attack
Thunderbolt
HP Ice
Heat Wave
Roost

Could be of some use, outspeed Lucario and still maintaing some bulkyness to it. You could even shift a few evs from Sp. Attack over to Def, if you don't think that it's bulky enough for you. Furthermore you're Suicune weak, offensive cune, and LO Cune, both can and will cause you some trouble, for that reason alone I would probably consider Roar on Zapdos, or Vaporeon, so that you have a pretty reliable phazer. All of this is really opinion so just pick and choose the advice that you like.

Hope I helped!

I'll edit in more later! Gotta get a tux right now!

I Was thinking you could run a choice scarf trick metagross as a lead then T-tar can come in later much more easily and not kill zapdos. This would also solve your salamence weakness. Outrage weakness to some extent.

I ran something similar with
EVS of your choice either quite bulky or speedy

And moves

Meteor mash
Trick
Explosion
Stealth Rock

Nice dude. Wait until you see my rhyperior team too, it's evil, truly evil. We're sitting at #8 on leaderboard right now. <3

As a fellow user and lover of teams based around one pokemon I can definitely help this team out.

CBTar looks cool so I won't mess with him.

Protect>Toxic on Vaporeon. You need something to dodge Heatran Explosions and it lets you scout choiced sweepers.

HP Grass on Zapdos since your team seems to hate Swampert...a lot.

Swampert counters Tyranitar, your Zapdos, Heatran, Scizor and can go toe to toe with Rhyperior to an extent so it has plenty of switch ins.

Finally I would go with a Salac Berry on Rhyperior so it can kill some of the faster stuff in OU.

Now for the bigger changes.

Consider a Rotom-C with Scarf. This way you can trick Scarf onto walls and send in Rhyperior to set up for a sweep. It's just a suggestion and can help you with the Suicune and Heracross weakness. This can also work well in tandom with TTar's pursuit since stuff like Gengar won't be doing much to Tyranitar like Shadow Ball.

Hope that helps at all. I really don't have much experience with Rhyperior.

hmmmm, Obviously this team is very well built with a lot of threats covered within the synergy of the teams. The better teams are harder to do anything with simply because they generally work so well together anyway, but you do have some issues so we'll try to resolve them. I think Rotom will be OK, but i think scarftran is glueing your team together, but wont do too unsimilar job to Heatran really, and gives you extra coverage against Gyarados, so it might be worth running Ice Beam on Vappy in that case to deal with Salamence slightly better. It might be worth testing those changes out, but try it that way and see which you prefer.

As for Togekiss, I struggle to see where you would put it in really. I don't really like Hustle the ability seriously annoys me with the accuracy drop, and if that irks you too with the "Haxy" losses you might not want to go with it really as it does have the potential to add to that problem. I guess it could go over Scizor but it will add to your DDMence weak, or maybe "create" a DDMence weak which could become a potential problem if ES misses, you're probably screwed. I wouldn't run Kiss > Scizor if you are using rotom, but if your running Heatran you will have a little more le-way to do that, as they will be forced to use OUtrage to hit togekiss.

If I were you I'd keep Scizor and TTar the way around that they are ATM, You could use lead or Sub Tar which I do find to be pretty useful. Sub, especially when Scizor comes straight in as you can fire Punch as they break your sub. Lead tar does actually work quite well, I ran Sub / SR / Flamethrower / Crunch IIRC but you can easily change SR to Stone Edge or Earthquake if you really want to, although it would allow you to get the SR that this set provides. You may not want to lose the power of CB tar so keep it if you prefer the "consistant" damage that it brings. If going Lead tar switch Scizor to CB, CB will allow you to revenge more with +! BPs and obviously allows you to scout for counters using U-Turn, CB U-Turn puts a huge dent in neutral things such as Hippowdon and Bronzong, Salamence for example is much more easily revenged by a +1 BP than an unboosted on, even though Life Orb does make up some of the damage.

Sorry that this is less of a complete rate and more of a ramble about the options that you discussed, but I feel that is more of what you are looking for here. you know the team works but want some opinions on somethings, and I hope that some of what I have said will help you make these descisions :D

I didn't plan on running Kiss over Scizor. I actually thought of running both as double priority is very interesting especially because they both are capable of using it well. I guess one big problem could be missing, but I've used Stone Edge over and over... though I guess its something to experiment with. I thought over maybe Zapdos or Vaporeon (though it could be a bad situation over Vappy) but I'm going to experiment with these suggestions. Thanks guys. But keep trying to help, I still am all ears to everyone else.

Might I suggest you put this Dragonite in place of Scizor?

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Adamant
252 HP/162 Sp Def/96 Spd
-Dragon Dance
-Dragon Claw
-Light Screen
-Roost

It takes about 40% from Vaporeon's Ice Beam(Light Screen set up, not when roosting), and it helps with Grass attacks and pokes, most notably Shaymin(even though you have him covered), and also takes care of your Lucario and Hera weakness to an extent.. It's really easy to set up and sweep. It also covers Rhyperior's weaknesses well.

Okay, as I told you on irc. Running a Rotom-H over Heatran would probably one of the worst decisions you could make. Unless you -know- that you can keep the scarf onto it late game, every game; you're going to get manhandled by NP Infernape, Scizor, Lucario and Heracross. All of them will be able to outspeed and 6-0 your team before you know what the hell just hit you. I highly reccomend that you don't do that, since he is the only speed you have.

If you're really worried about your SkarmBliss troubles, run a Boah, or hell maybe even try a Scarf Tar, or Mix Tar lead. Both of which are great at freeing up late game sweeps for either Rhyperior or Scizor. DD MixTar is a great option since you have Heatran very well covered, and that's the only pokemon it lacks coverage on. It could also be of great suprise to many of your opponents.

I've updated a few things in the thread. Check it out!

SoT, theres no way Scizor is going to beat even non-Scarf Rotom H one on one (Damage Calcs assuming Rotom has 252 SpA / 252 Spe w/ Modest Nature:

+2 Bullet Punch w/ LO: 55-65%
+2 X-Scizzor: 72-86%

In essense, it will never be allowed be get an X-Scizzor off due to it's inferior speed compared to rotom, with a more defensive scarf Spread this will be even less of a problem even if it does lse the scarf. IMO you probably want to run HP Ground > Trick anyway. As long as they're not throwing Toxic around when you switch in, Blissey is essentially Rhyperior set-up bait. If it is throwing Toxic around, it's Scizor set-up bait.

I like the DD-Tar, but do you really want to lead with him. I mean scizor can beat suicide lead without the sandstorm, and you might want to be using TTar to open up holes mid game, now that you are running Scizor in the slightly more "synergentic" role of a Choice Bander. Just a thought, you can Lure out Skarm and Forry Mid Game and then deal with them then. People are most alert to Lures early game. Can't think of anything else that I haven't already said.

I would really Consider HP Grass on Zapdos to use as Bait to lure out Swampert and OHKO it. Sure you miss the OHKO on Dragons, but they are 2HKOed by Thunderbolt anyway(fuck you, Flygon ><"). Otherwise, I could see a Cursing Swampert run through you if Vaporeon is out of commission(and even then it could possibly be stalled out).

XD Your pokes are the same as mine, just different variants (T-Tar, Zappy, Scizor).

I'm going to say you should put HP Grass on Zapdos though. I used a tank zados rather than a sweeper and put HP grass on because swampert is a douche to most of these pokes.

Also, it would be wise to make Zapdos a bit more tankish (SoT's spread) so you have a good initial switch in to threats like Lucario. Also, LO+Sandstorm+SR really takes its toll on Zapdos as well.

I would like to try CB on my scizor now too...

Goldfan said:

SoT, theres no way Scizor is going to beat even non-Scarf Rotom H one on one (Damage Calcs assuming Rotom has 252 SpA / 252 Spe w/ Modest Nature

Click to expand...

Oh my bad, I was wrong about a pokemon, but I'm still pretty sure he's losing out to Lucario/Heracross. Do you have any comments on that? or are you just gonna call me out on 1 pokemon?

Edit: And the Tyranitar works well as an early game sweeper, because most if not all azelfs, first turn SR on an opposing Tyranitar, so once you DD you can now outspeed and kill with Crunch. Generally they send in a physical wall, Skarm/Zong, so when nailed with a Fire Blast it comes as a great suprise. I really think it works best early, game clearing the way for his late game sweepers best, opposed to be saved for late game.

And Colonel M, you do have a nice little Mence weak, so either unless you plan on getting every mence to outrage and then switching to Tran, I would probably suggest making your Zapdos bulky as hell. You -could- even run HP Elec on Tran, as it outspeed Adamant +1 DD, and then give your Vaporeon Ice Beam over HP Electric, so he can actually take an outrage then kill, unlike the rest of your team who is gonna be getting sacrificed in order to lure out an outrage. It's kind of gimmicky, but i suppose it could work. Consider even running Roar, on the Zapdos spread I gave you earlier, just beacause you seem like you need a Phazer, and he could do that pretty well.

why is the dd tar adamant? why not jolly? it could outspeed much more pokes if jolly. what can it not kill when jolly than when adamant?

I had just made this exact team with the exception of different movesets and spreads before seeing this thread, which made me laugh.

Ok so now onto the team. Like Articanus mentioned above I would rather see Hidden Power [Grass] on Zapdos than Hidden Power [Ice]. Getting Swampert out of the way really helps Rhyperior in the long run. With the exception of Flygon all the dragons in OU are 2hko'd by Thunderbolt, and if Zapdos does die Scizor can finish them off with a Bullet Punch.

Also Vaporeon or Zapdos would really benefit from having Roar. Without it I can easily see a Dragon Dance Kingdra from sweeping you. It can get a free Dragon Dance from Heatran, Vaporeon, and Scizor. After it does get in a boost nothing can really stand in it's way. Especially if it's running Return over Substitute you can't rely on waiting for him to Outrage for Heatran to Explode. Tyranitar, Heatran, Scizor, and Rhyperior all fall to a Life Orb Waterfall with Stealth Rock up, Vaporeon will lose to Outrage or Return, and Zapdos will fall to both. So by running Roar on Vaporeon or giving it to Zapdos and making it more bulky it would help alot. Thunder Wave on Zapdos would also do the trick, but in the end the decision is up to you.

I might try Roar > Protect on Vaporeon. As for Zapdos, I'm still debating what to do because I like the extra push as far as offense goes. Hidden Power Grass will be added, however. I'll update that change. Also made the nature Hasty for Tyranitar.

SoT said:

Oh my bad, I was wrong about a pokemon, but I'm still pretty sure he's losing out to Lucario/Heracross. Do you have any comments on that? or are you just gonna call me out on 1 pokemon?

Click to expand...

It's wasn't supposed to be like that. It was a teeny little jibe that you blew way out of proportion, but if you want to o there. Heracross will only beat Rotom if it is running Hight Slash or Pursuit. if Rotom is running Scarf it is even weaker due to the fact that it can be pursuit trapped. How many Night Slash Heracross do you see? As for Lucario, MOST run SD / Ice Punch which will never beat Rotom, sure Crunch Varient will, but they can be dealt with by using Zapdos. Also whats to say Colnol M isn't a good battler who knows not to get rid opf the scarf until said threats are removed anyway? Please don't mekt it like that it was a little little thing, and I thought people around here were a little more laid back than that. I wasn't trying to make you look stupid. I see your point about Ttar also, get a DD or suicides and then get going early game.

As for the changes, I'm in favour of Protect on Zaporeon, Toxic will of course really help, but I worry that you wont be able to Heal vappy reliably enough so that it can continue supporting the team. Addressing the Lucario problem, I do think changing Zappy to a more defensive version will help out with that, as I previously stated Rotom can deal with Crunch varients, Zappy will deal with Ice Punch varients. Zapdos is by no means "weak" when its running defensive spreads and its Thunderbolt is still something to watch out for.

Pretty nice team colonel, there's quite the fighting weakness, but you can play around it for the most part. Your team looks pretty hard to set up on, and even if something did, you can still dispatch it with Scizor or Heatran.

You have a disturbing Agility Empoleon weakness, but Vaporeon helps with that. grass knot is a 3HKO before the petaya boost, but as long as vaporeon doesn't come in on a grass knot you should be able to beat it. If it gets past vaporeon it's GG.

Update your threat list too, there is mentions of CBtar and HP Ice on zapdos, which have obviously changed since then.

nice team :P

I'm still juggling this team around, but I'm sort of taking a break for the next two days. Here are my conclusions thus far:

- It appears that CBTar was a better choice in the end. Understanding that Azelf leads make the Mixed Dancer really good, I just need more of an offensive edge and it brought it to the table.
- HP Grass Zapdos did prove to be useful as expected. Definitely adding.
- Vaporeon with Roar is good. Adding.
- With Tyranitar weilding the Choice Band, I feel that it's not a good idea to have Scizor having it as well, so this will be replaced with Swords Dance set.

Sorry SoT, but really it just fits my playstyle slightly better. Although I gotta admit that I love Choice Band Scizor from my trials with it. And I might go bulky with Zapdos again, but I'm still tossing this around because I'm liking the offense that Life Orb offers.

If you lose your Vappy, INfernape will put a hole in your team. It can OHKO anything but Zapdos, which is 2HKOed and weak to SR. IT would be a prediction war ( CC/Fire Blast agasint Zapdos/Heatran(Zapdos cant take 2 FB and Heatran cant take a CC)

To be more specific, Vacuum Wave/Grass Knot/CC/Fire Blast mixape can tear you with a bit prediction

.............. "if you lose pokemon x, pokemon y will put a whole in your team." I hate to mini-mod, but those comments don't really help. yes, if he loses his Infernape counter, Infernape will sweep him. It's more helpful to say, Gyarados can open up an Infernape sweep by beating Vaporeon since nothing on your team really likes that combo...

Man how I want a Rhyperior team now. If yyour having trouble witha good Zappy spread, Ive been using 160 hp, 200ish def, 76 speed, rest in sp. att with a timid nature. It retains most of it bulk, outspeeds adamant lucarios and such and can still pack a pretty powerful punch. The moves are up to you but I would keep what you have already.

A double priority Scizor could help with the Ape situation but you would have to give up roost. You still have Vappy to pass wishes to help with recovery so it could work. Thats all i could think of. Hope it helps out ^^

I've updated the team a little bit more, and decided to give this another bump. Final thoughts on this and I think I might stash this for one of my "good use later" teams.