np: UU - A New Beginning

BOLD VOTING HAS BEEN BUMPED TO FEBRUARY 5th!
Join us at or #biuret on irc.dejatoons.net!

It's been coming for a while. You've been talking, theorymoning, and planning your teams in anticipation of this event. And now it's finally here! We will now be starting to test a new UU tier, by moving all current BL and NFE Pokémon to the UU tier and officially make a new tier from scratch.

Before I go any further, I am going to explain why this is happening. Currently, the UU tier has been based strongly off of the ADV UU tier. Since the start of DP, changes have been made periodically to the UU list, whether it was UU Pokémon moving up out to BL or OU, or Pokémon falling the other way. When these changes have been made, little to no follow up has been done to see if the changes made actually made the tier better or worse. This test sets out to fix the tier to make it more in line with the changes that DPP has brought to UU.

Now those of you who read Policy Review (and if you don't read it you should start doing so) know that we have already decided upon a process for this test. However, after reflecting upon that a bit with other badged members, most notably Great Sage, we have made a revision to the process that we believe will make the process run smoothly.

NEW PROCESS said:

As testing for a new UU tier begins, the current BL tier will be merged with lower ones, in an attempt to create a less arbitrary and smaller BL 'tier', essentially a ban list (like Ubers). It is best to familiarize yourselves with the process early.

During the initial stage of this test, which will span 2.5 months, a tier consisting of BL and lower tiers will be played out and stabilized. 1.5 months into this process, after the game has stabilized to an acceptable level, a thread will be opened in which you will be allowed to nominate sets of Pokemon to be voted on, with thoughtful reasons, of course. As with the previous bold votes, if you do not have sound reasoning, your vote most likely will not be counted. At that time, ratings on the Suspect Ladder for this test will be reset. The reason for this is to allow a fairer judgment of whether someone has actually played the game, since a newborn metagame evolves significantly in a short time period, and people who rely on early ratings are easily misled. That leaves 1 month to acquire qualifications necessary for voting on Pokemon nominated frequently enough to be judged suspects at the end of the testing period, 1655 rating and 65 deviation.

The following is a basic timeline of the UU testing process:
Initial Test: Months 0 - 2.5
Nominating Suspects: Month 1.5
Rating Reset: Month 1.5
Voting: Month 2.5
Start over timeline with BL Pokemon removed: Month 3

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In my opinion, the sweet part about making each part of this test three months is that when get the New UU list for the next 3 months, we also get the New OU list, so any pokemon that fail out of OU can be put into UU at that point, and any UU that becomes OU can be taken out at the point, even if it didn't get voted BL.

The following Fully Evolved Pokemon from the current BL tier will be added to UU for the test (I will not be listing all NFEs):
Remember, there are so many Pokemon being tested, be sure to try all of them out in order to figure out what each one is capable of. Theorymon shouldn't be needed, since once this thread is unlocked, you will be able to test them for real on the Underused ladder.

Test Start Date: January 4th
Bold Vote for UU Suspects: February 18
Rating Reset: Approximately February 22

Lets Go!
Just a few reminders:

• Don't be afraid to try new strategies with new Pokémon.
• If you feel a Pokémon is broken, prove it by using it a lot to win.
• Don't forget to use the Pokémon that used to be UU, as well as NFEs!
• Don't be stuck in the mindset of "Old UU". This is in regards to things such as Perma-Weather.

I'll edit the second post with the date timeline tomorrow

Question: Will the UU ladder be reset for the test?

No scores will not be reset right now

Scores will reset later.

I wanted to get into UU awhile ago, but after I heard about this test I decided to hold off and jump into the fray and confusion (and hopefully striking big ladder-wise). But honestly, between my internet connection, the score reset (though understandable) and the requirements for the Latias test, I'm not even going to bother with the initial chaos of the test. As much as I'd like to use BLs before some of them get ultimately shot back up, I simply don't have the resources to jump right in. Too bad :(

I'm up for theorymon and discussion however, and I'll be watching the developements for when I do get involved. Go Agility Blaziken!

Speaking of Blaziken, Reversal sets may have a LOT of potential in UU. If hail/sandstorm don't become super common, there's hope for these sets! Though I'm not entirely sure on how common priority is. I've always been fond of STAB Reversal from beasts like Blaziken.

One more thing, Wynaut is allowed right? It was a listed uber but I never got a response to this (I don't think it'd be game breaking, but I still want to know).

Veedrock said:

One more thing, Wynaut is allowed right? It was a listed uber but I never got a response to this (I don't think it'd be game breaking, but I still want to know).

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It's allowed according to the ban list for the UU ladder.

Yay New Thread! I didn't like the old thread that much anyway.

Anyway the new UU is great fun, my Entei is running rampant and I will be posting an analysis soon as soon as Caelum gives me the go ahead.

As Veedrock said, I just don't have the time to play, and its a real shame.

However before the ladder opened, I did make a Sunny Day team for UU. It consisted of Hariyama/Uxie/Tangrowth/Shirftry/Typhlosion/Gastrodon and got horribly raped three seperate times by three different Golducks. It did win two battles tho fyi.

Anyway I'll probably theorymon a team, and may/may not test it.

Registeel is awesome. as a stand alone, it is probably too powerful for UU. but Registeel keeps many new threats in check. Stall teams are everywhere. Blaziken and Spiritomb are working extremely well as well. Camerupt, who was UU before, can also destroy unprepared teams.

A new beginning is right, this is a totally new metagame, one I enjoy playing.

So this entire process will go on for 8 months?

It's pretty much obvious enough right now that some are just plain out too broken for UU (Gallade, Shaymin, Spiritomb, Milotic, etc.)... Although I do understand the process of testing, but by banning a few at a time, it can actually change the game quite awhile, making others that are suspect but hiding behind the greater suspects to show. For example, if Milotic never gets banned, the usage of Slowking may not be as high as it should be since there's just a "better version" of it. So even if Slowking's really broken, it's hard to notice if Milotic has been hiding Slowking in her shadow. That's just an example. [That's an example. You can argue that Slowking is completely different from Milotic all you want, but I'm just trying to make a point.]

I understand your point, but Milotic is truly broken, I'm almost certain it'll get banned. I think it's likely that some Pokemon that don't deserve bannings will get banned actually.

And using your example, if Milotic doesn't get banned, Slowking will be NU, and then probably put in the NU faux tier.

I got swept by a Milotic today, it's so hard to take down.

and I have only seen two weather teams so far, for all the hype.

I know that every Pokemon is getting tested, but is this worth it? Because some are obvious enough that even inept battlers would even know that they would be banned. A few examples would be Blaziken, Staraptor, Milotic, Gallade, Spiritomb and Shaymin.

It's definitely worth it because we don't want a UU ban list made up of 50 Pokemon like we used to.

To be honest, so far, I haven't come across 1 Pokemon that I think is centralizing, although we haven't had much time to experiment yet. Sure, some Pokemon are better than others, but I don't find UU any more extreme than OU. I have seen a Registeel in every single battle so far though... It's quite strange, because I never used to see it when I played BL.

Interesting, I think I'll play UU instead of OU now. Can't wait to test out Gardevoir!

1059860 said:

I know that every Pokemon is getting tested, but is this worth it? Because some are obvious enough that even inept battlers would even know that they would be banned. A few examples would be Blaziken, Staraptor, Milotic, Gallade, Spiritomb and Shaymin.

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But, they're not broken. Blaziken and Gallade's base 80 speed is a real letdown. Milotic and Spiritomp are good walls, but they can be worn down. Staraptor and Shaymin have plenty of exploitable weaknesses.

incredibly fun. needs some more time to settle however

I just played about 20-25 games on the new ladder, and I gotta say, I'm really enjoying this metagame. Some immediate impressions:

I'd like to vouch for Registeel as the official biggest pain in the new metagame. Such a tough steel seems to wall everything under the sun, and unlike Steelix it has good SpD and few exploitable weaknesses.

Teamed up with Chansey (who, despite claims of uselessness due to 35 base attack, is if anything harder to take down than Blissey in OU) the pair become a UU Skarmbliss. Blaziken responds as the UU Mixape, but has a harder time due to Registeel's SpD (though rarely invested in from what I've seen so far) and support movepool (Twave!). Is there any wallbreaker that can OHKO both Registeel and Chansey? (Maybe a Choice Band CC from something, sure, but Spiritomb is always lurking too.)

I'm not saying he's not beatable, just a major hassle and a defensive backbone for many a team (including mine) all on his own.

On the offensive side, Raikou and Shaymin stand out as ridiculous in terms of power - perhaps the only sweepers I'd say approach broken. Shaymin (offensive LO build) goes down easy but outspeeds all walls and most bulky sweepers, doing huge damage with Seed Flare. Raikou has great coverage with three attacks (TB, HP Grass, Signal Beam) and after a CM very little can stand up to him.

Blaziken, Gallade and Staraptor are potent but are all frail and easily revengeable. I carry a standard Toxic Orb Swellow who handles all three nicely. Milotic and Spiritomb have also not been problems, but only because Raikou and Shaymin handle both nicely.

A simple Blaziken LO "MixKen" set (Superpower, Fire STAB, HP Grass, Agility/Vacuum Wave/etc) nabs surprise KOs all over the place, but wears down quickly too, and the speed is indeed a letdown.

Priority attacks are all over the place, and Trick Room is more common than I've ever seen in both OU and UU, probably because everyone wants to try Slowbro. However, this metagame seems less dependant on its bulky waters (I can't think of a reason why quite yet), and Slowbro hasn't shown too much success in the short time I've seen and used it. Slowking has gotten me a couple of sweeps with a TR/NP/Surf/Slack Off set, but is too easily killed by the special attackers listed above, as well as Mismagius.

Ambipom is a killer lead; Fake Out really puts the boots to anything not named Spiritomb or Registeel. I've seen quite a few of these leads and have even had some success with a gimmicky Last Resort set, good for both unexpected early game and late game sweeping.

To Veedrock: Priority is already too common for Reversal I'm afraid, with the aforementioned Fake Out Ambipom as well as Quick Attack Staraptor, Sucker Punch Honchkrow, Aqua Jet Azumarill, and old favourites like TechniTop, Nidoking, etc.

Overall the new metagame is a fast and frail one, with everything pretty much scoring O- and 2HKOs on everything else, with the exception of a couple decent walls that can sponge hits where needed - wallbreaker development must commence immediately! It also seems more balanced than I expected, although there are a couple clearly suspect characters. Of course, these are all extremely early and limited observations and may not accurately reflect the actual state of the new metagame.

Yeah, Chansey is a werid one. Lots of people say it's terrible, and even I don't think it's as good as I expected, however, someone was having a rant about how bad Chansey is, I asked him why he doesn't like it, and he said 'Because it's an NFE, and it's like Blissey'. I wonder how many people dislike Chansey for that reason...

The problem with Chansey for me is that it's so easy to set up on I find, and also, not being able to use Flamethrower, Ice Beam or Thunderbolt with Chansey anymore isn't too nice. Seismic Toss is OK though. Nevertheless, it is the 2nd best special wall in the game, so it deserves some merit.

Also, I can't believe that people honestly thought that this would be OU-lite...

Staraptor is quite popular. I'm seeing it on almost every team I come up against. While Choice versions can be outpredicted it still hurts an awful lot. Not much likes eating it's attacks. Calm Mind is quite popular as well, with Pokemon like Raikou, Slowbro, and Spiritob showing up frequently with Calm Mind sets. These things are an absolute bear to bring down.

I would have to say that Torterra is probably one of the most effective Pokemon I've tried so far. Most of the common walls don't really want anything to do with it (hits Regirock, Registeel, Slowbro, Milotic, Steelix and Spiritomb very hard) though Shaymin can be annoying. Rock Polish is pretty good at demolishing more frail teams too.

Here's a new one I found surprsing: Gabite.

Yeah I know it seems kinda crappy but it actually gets 1-2 KO's a match with Choice Band Outrage.

Something I found to be surprisingly bad was Mesprit. No recovery really hurts it and it's hard to chose between Reflect/Thunder-Wave/U-Turn. Currently I've been using U-Turn and it really hasn't made much of a difference. I'll try out Reflect later.

Azumarill makes for an excellent revenge killer and wallbreaker, being able to take out many pokemon. Completely walled by Slowbro and Milotic though, although Returns/Double Edge hurts Milotic a lot.

Technitop has been usurped by Ambipom, who hits a lot harder and is a lot faster =/. One of the most common leads I've seen so far.

RB Golbat said:

Test Start Date: January 4th
Bold Vote for UU Suspects: February 18
Rating Reset: Approximately February 22

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RB Golbat said:

Lets Go!
Just a few reminders:

• Don't be afraid to try new strategies with new Pokémon.
• If you feel a Pokémon is broken, prove it by using it a lot to win.
• Don't forget to use the Pokémon that used to be UU, as well as NFEs!
• Don't be stuck in the mindset of "Old UU". This is in regards to things such as permanent weather (i.e., Snover, Abomasnow, Hippopotas) and legendaries.

Click to expand...

Also, despite what you've heard, we will be running though the process listed in the opening post more than once.