UU Speed Tiers [revamp]

Currently in the updating process please post if you want to add anything!

(Thank you Misaki Chi and Servant for the introduction, thankyou to the Master 42 and various others for fixing up the format!)

Getting Started

To begin with, find the maximum Speed of the Pokemon you're building. You can find this information on our analysis pages for each Pokemon. After you've found your maximum Speed, use the following tables to see how much Speed the threats you wish to out speed have, and EV your Pokemon accordingly. Keep in mind that when calculating your maximum Speed stat, you need to take into account your Pokemon's Speed IV.

For example, +Speed natured Pinsir can hit a maximum Speed of 295. The closest threat in it's Speed tier sit on 291 Speed (being a positive natured Magmortar). You can therefore safely run 292 Speed, which requires 240 EVs as opposed to 252, and still allows Pinsir to outrun all necessary threats in the speed tiers.

Speed Boosts

To calculate your necessary starting Speed when factoring in Agility, Rock Polish, Chlorophyll or Swift Swim, all you need to do is add one to the Speed of the Pokemon you wish to outspeed, divide it by two and round up the result. In practice, for example, should you decide that you want your Blaziken to outspeed +Speed Sceptile after a single agility to destroy it with Fire Blast, you just add one to Crobat's Speed, giving you 395. Dividing this in half and rounding up the result when the necessary gives you your desired starting Speed which is 198 in this case, which Blakizen easily reaches.

To factor in the use of Dragon Dance, Salac Berry, or Choice Scarf you need to find the Speed of the target you wish to outspeed and multiply it by 2/3. For example, if you want your Blaziken to outspeed +Speed Crobat, all you need to do is multiply your target Speed (394) by 2/3, which returns 264. With a Choice Scarf Blaziken should now hit 417 but in order to outspeed Electrode you would want at least 395, so add a single point to the 264, this is now the minimum starting Speed necessary in this case.

Tier 0 (+1 Users, base Speed > 90)

658 - +2 252 Floatzel (115)
518 - +2 252 Blaziken, Kabutops (80)
492 - +1 +nature/252 Charizard (100)
478 - +2 252 Ludicolo (70)
478 - +1 252 Espeon (110)
459 - +1 +nature/252 Roserade (90)
448 - +1 252 Charizard, Staraptor, Typhlosion (100)
433 - +1 252 Houndoom (95)
430 - +2 252 Rampardos (58)
426 - +1 +nature/252 Medicham, Venusaur (80)
422 - +2 252 Torterra (56)
421 - +1 252 Rotom (91)
418 - +2 252 Exeggutor (55)
418 - +1 252 Moltres, Roserade (90)

Tier 1 (100 < base Speed < 140)

416 - +nature/252 Electrode (140)
409 - +1 +nature/252 Absol, Smeargle (75)
403 - +1 252 Pinsir (85)
398 - +2 252 Tangrowth (50)
397 - +1 252 Magmortar (83)
394 - +nature/252 Crobat (130)
388 - +1 252 Blaziken, Gallade, Medicham (80)
383 - +nature/252 Swellow (125)
382 - +1 252 Feraligatr (78)
376 - +1 +nature/252 Glaceon (65)
372 - +nature/252 Sceptile (120)
361 - +nature/252 Ambipom, Floatzel, Raikou (115)
360 - +1 +nature/252 Abomasnow (60)
354 - +1 +nature/252 Rampardos (58)
352 - +2 no-speed Ludicolo (70)
350 - +nature/252 Espeon, Froslass, Tauros (110)
343 - +1 +nature/252 Ursaring (55)
343 - +1 252 Glaceon (65)
339 - +nature/252 Mismagius (105)
329 - 252 Ambipom, Floatzel (115)
328 - +nature/252 Charizard, Ninetales, Shaymin, Staraptor, Typhlosion (100)

Tier 2 (70 < base Speed < 100)

322 - +1 252 Rampardos (58)
319 - 252 Tauros (110)
317 - +nature/252 Arcanine, Drapion, Houndoom (95)
309 - +nature/252 Rotom (91)
306 - +nature/252 Moltres, Roserade (90)
299 - 252 Charizard, Shaymin, Staraptor (100)
295 - +nature/252 Pinsir, Toxicroak (85)
291 - +nature/252 Magmortar (83)
289 - 252 Arcanine (95)
284 - +nature/252 Blaziken, Gallade, Gardevoir, Medicham (80)
280 - +nature/252 Feraligatr (78)
279 - 252 Moltres (90)
273 - +nature/252 Smeargle (75)
269 - 252 Pinsir, Toxicroak (85)
265 - +nature/252 Honchkrow (71)
265 - 252 Magmortar (83)
255 - 252 Feraligatr (78)
251 - +nature/252 Glaceon (65)
249 - 252 Absol (75)
241 - 252 Honchkrow (71)
240 - +nature/252 Abomasnow (60)
239 - 252 Ludicolo (70)

Tier 3 (< 70 base Speed)

236 - no-speed Miltank, Shaymin (100)
236 - +nature/252 Rampardos (58)
229 - +nature/252 Ursaring (55)
226 - no-speed Drapion, Uxie (95)
218 - +nature/252 Tangrowth (50)
218 - no-speed Rotom (91)
215 - 252 Rampardos (58)
211 - 252 Torterra (56)
209 - 252 Exeggutor, Ursaring (55)
207 - +nature/252 Marowak (45)
206 - no-speed Toxicroak (85)
199 - 252 Tangrowth (50)
198 - no-speed Milotic (81)
196 - no-speed Gardevoir, Meganiuim, Mesprit, Venusaur (80)
192 - no-speed Blastoise (78)
189 - 252 Marowak (45)
188 - no-speed Nidoqueen (76)
186 - no-speed Claydol (75)
176 - no-speed Hitmontop, Ludicolo (70)
170 - no-speed Lanturn (67)
166 - no-speed Glaceon, Umbreon, Walrein (65)
156 - no-speed Clefable, Porygon 2 (60)
146 - no-speed Exeggutor, Ursaring (55)
140 - -nature/31IV Abomasnow (60)
136 - no-speed Azumarill, Chansey, Hariyama, Regice, Regirock, Registeel, Tangrowth (50)
121 - -nature/0IV Umbreon (65)
106 - no-speed Spiritomb (35)
96 - no-speed Slowbro, Steelix (30)
58- -nature/0IV Slowbro, Steelix (30)

OK, stats are out, so this thread is open:

Pokemon I plan to add:

Steelix
Froslass
Clefable
Claydol
Hitmontop
Nidoqueen
Chansey
Rotom
Venusaur
Blastoise
Swellow
Toxicroak
Glaceon
Miltank
Kabutops
Lanturn
Drapoin

Pokemon I plan to remove:

Regigigas
Slowking
Lickilicky
Pinsir
Entei

Thoughts and opinions please, I will probably make these changes later tonight + there are also a few things that are already in there when they shouldn't that I need to sort out. Please back yourself up with stats, this is a reference for Pokemon that people are going to see after all!

I would say keep Pinsir, its only 72nd which is above things like Smeregle, Tauros and Marowak.

Suggested Additions:
Cloyster (61st), Drifblim (64th), Scyther (65) and maybe Omastar (66th)?

I have made all of the changes that I mentioned. I have kept Pinsir (thanks eric), I have removed Zangoose also.

I will spend more time looking over it later. There are a lot of Pokemon that I have down for 252 neutral nature that simply don't run it, but that will require a bit of time to cross-refence loads of stuff with Dougs stats. I also plan to add good numbers to hit when boosting, and I may shuffle the tiers around a bit too, as the important numbers to hit become clearer. Should be done by the end of next week, though.

Any more suggestions / corrections will be appreciated =)

I noticed no mention of Electrode, whom is a respectable addition considering he is the fastest Pokemon in UU, and therefore a benchmark for a few Scarfers (most notably Scarfed Leads; Electrode is still the #9th most used lead).

As for Pokemon who don't run 252 Speed, the two I noticed were Espeon and Mismagius (possibly also Houndoom). The only reason someone's going Modest 252 on these are when they're using a Scarf.

I went through the first 25 Pokemon's stats (+ a few random ones I use, like Regirock) looking for speeds that are used but not here or ones here that are not used:

8% of Raikou run Modest, 92% have Timid.

20% of Shaymin run no speed, worth adding?

Only 7.4% of Regirock run max speed, remove?

252 Milotic is used so little it is not in the stats and + nature has only 8.5%. Remove?

Gallade needs adding.

As diin said, non + speed Missy is rare. 82% run Timid.

Only + speed nature Crobats show up on the stats, remove plain 252 bat?

Azumarill's Speed EVs

None | 57.0
Very Low (<50) | 26.2
Other (3) | < 8.0
Take out all Azu with speed?

18.5% of Uxie have Choice Scarf, none have max speed and 8.6% have 150-200 speed. Maybe find the specific spread they run and add it?

A large proportion of Abomnasnow don't have max speed or a +nature:
Timid 33.4%
Sassy 21.8%
Brave 11.6%

and 37.4% have no speed EVs. Add - nature no speed Obama?

20% of Espeon ran Modest, I am going to say that 1 in 5 is enough for now, unless anyone has an objection to that.

Added Electrode. Removed Mismagius.

Over 30% of Houndoom are neutral (Modest) so I will keep that also, thanks for your suggestions diinbong!

Will get to Erics in a bit ^_^

(and then go over myself)

Imran said:

20% of Espeon ran Modest, I am going to say that 1 in 5 is enough for now, unless anyone has an objection to that.

Click to expand...

me!
Almost all of the modest sets were probably choice scarf, and the stats show this:
Espeon: Choice Scarf 16.7%
Espeon: Modest 18.7%

You can safely assume that a vast majority of the scarf sets will run Modest. This means roughly 2% are Modest 252 without scarf.
Maybe its worth adding Scarf Espeon?

Actually, that is a very good point I missed that. I will remove 252 Speed Houndoom and Espeon and add scarf sets in there instead. I will get onto the rest of your points too eric!

Have made pretty much all of the rest of your suggested changes too. I don't really like to run specific set because a lot of the time "you can add a few more Speed EVs to ensure you beat specific stuff." If I continue to follow that line I'd end up adding things like "Uxie with enough speed to beat Crobat" and "Uxie with enough Speed to beat Electrode etc... I'd like to think people can figure oput specific sets from the analyses (when they are writeen) or hopefully by them selves, on that note I am removing Technitop also!

Removing Slaking for now also, it was used early on but useage died right down.

Apparently Timid Scarf Roserade exists, so I added that.

Made another whole bunch of revisions, mainly taking non-existant stuff out. I am still currently in the process of moving the tiers about a bit (Bottom one is a bit big, top a bit large) and I will also be putting in +1 and +2 numbers that might be worth hitting, a la the OU Tiers.

Checked the next 25:

Walrien needs adding.
(just no speed)

31% of Ludicolo have no speed, probably worth adding. Maybe +2 no speed Ludi as well?

21.9% of Umbreon run max speed.. oh dear.. but also 6.8% have no item..

Absol needs adding.
+252Scarf and 252. 252+ without scarf seems rare, but im not sure.

I think that ScarfGlaceon may be running + nature, Scarf is 18.9% and Timid is 18.8%. And its what the analysis recommends. So.. maybe add 252 Glaceon, remove 252+, add 252Scarf and add 252+Scarf.

Sceptile almost always uses a + nature, remove the 252 one.

11.9% of Kabutops have + speed, probably not worth adding.

The Medicham analysis suggests a + nature with scarf and the stats don't prove it either way. Probably worth adding.

And other than Regirock (in my other post) thats all of the 50 top Pokemon.

OK I have made a bunch of those already, looks like we were working at the same time eric >_< I'll go through the ones I haven't though.

I will change Scarf Glaceon.
Will add the two absol
"Support Umbreon" on the analysis wants some speed, but I'm tempted to ignore that as statistical noise, unless someone can provide a good explaination of it - although 1 in 5 does seem to be too much of a coincidence...
Will add +Speed Medicham with Scarf
Already have no-speed Ludicolo, will add +2 no Speed
Will add Walrein

EDIT: All done

459 - +nature/252 Roserade (90)

Click to expand...

I believe that should say +1 in front of it.

Imran said:

61 - -nature/0IV Slowbro, Steelix (30)

Click to expand...

According to Shoddy and double-checking using the stat formula, base 30 min Speed is 58.

Add Choice Scarf Magneton maybe?

So this is still WIP?

In that case,

In practice, for example, should you decide that you want your Blaziken to outspeed +Speed Sceptile after a single agility to destroy it with Fire Blast, you just add one to Crobat's Speed, giving you 395. Dividing this in half and rounding up the result when the necessary gives you your desired starting Speed which is 198 in this case, which Blakizen easily reaches.

Click to expand...

Both Sceptile and Crobat are mentioned, I'm not sure which one is meant to be in the example.

Nidoking deserves mention as well I think. (He was used even more than Nidoqueen last month.)

Should be added:
+1 and +2 Yanmega, who initially sits at 264 speed with the 104 Def/252 SpAtt/152 Speed Modest and at 289 with a 252 SpAtt/252 Speed/4 Def Modest. Yanmega at +1 hits 396 with the first spread and 433 with the second. Yanmega at +2 hits 528 with the first spread and 578 with the second. Maybe the 252 speed spread is not necessary?

Weezing - made the UU cut and is not on the first nor in the "to be added" section. Bold no speed Weezing sits at 156 speed, along with Clefable and Porygon2.

Omastar - same deal as Weezing. Bold no speed Omastar hits 146 and the Modest rain sweeper hits 209 (418 in rain).

Muk - same deal. Careful no speed Muk hits 136 speed.

Blaziken - the most popular Blaziken wall breaker sets run different spreads. HeYsUp's spread with 20 Speed EVs neutral nature hits 201 speed. The newer spread with 184 Speed EVs neutral nature hits 242 speed. I think this should be noted because the most popular Blaziken sets do not run max speed.

Milotic - the mildly popular max speed Modest sweeper sets reach 261 speed. Timid reaches 287.


Should be removed:
The BL's Abomasnow, Froslass, Staraptor, Gallade, and Raikou.

Floatzel, Rampardos, Medicham, Exeggutor, Pinsir, Tangrowth, Tauros, Ursaring, Glaceon, Walrein. All fell out of UU.

I left an never handed this over to anyone when I left, if you would like me to finish it over the summer I can (but it could take a while) or I guess this could be passed on to someone else to do =)

I'll take it

Tier 0 (+1/+2 Users, base Speed > 90)

578 - +2 252 Yanmega (95)
528 - +2 152 Yanmega (95)
518 - +2 252 Blaziken, Kabutops (80)
492 - +1 +nature/252 Charizard (100)
478 - +2 252 Ludicolo (70)
478 - +1 252 Espeon (110)
475 - +1+nature/252 Houndoom (95)
459 - +1 +nature/252 Roserade (90)
448 - +1 252 Charizard, Typhlosion (100)
433 - +1 252 Houndoom, Yanmega (95)
422 - +2 252 Torterra (56)
421 - +1 252 Rotom (91)
418 - +1 252 Moltres, Roserade (90)
418 - +2 252 Omastar (55)

Tier 1 (100 < base Speed < 140)

416 - +nature/252 Electrode (140)
409 - +1 +nature/252 Absol (75)
409 - +1 252 Hitmonlee (87)
398 - +2 252 Tangrowth (50)
397 - +1 252 Magmortar (83)
396 - +1 152 Yanmega (95)
388 - +1 252 Altaria, Blaziken (80)
383 - +nature/252 Swellow (125)
382 - +1 252 Feraligatr (78)
372 - +nature/252 Dugtrio, Sceptile (120)
363 - +1 184 Altaria (80)
361 - +nature/252 Ambipom (115)
352 - +2 no-speed Ludicolo (70)
350 - +nature/252 Espeon (110)
339 - 252 Dugtrio (120)
339 - +nature/252 Mismagius, Scyther (105)
329 - 252 Ambipom (115)
328 - +nature/252 Charizard, Typhlosion (100)

Tier 2 (70 < base Speed < 100)

317 - +nature/252 Arcanine, Drapion, Houndoom (95)
309 - +nature/252 Rotom (91)
306 - +nature/252 Moltres, Roserade (90)
300 - +nature/252 Hitmonlee (87)
299 - 252 Charizard, Typhlosion (100)
295 - +nature/252 Nidoking, Toxicroak (85)
291 - +nature/252 Magmortar (83)
289 - 252 Arcanine, Drapion, Yanmega (95)
287 - +nature/252 Milotic (81)
284 - +nature/252 Blaziken (80)
280 - +nature/252 Feraligatr (78)
279 - 252 Moltres (90)
273 - +nature/252 Absol (75)
269 - 252 Nidoking, Toxicroak (85)
265 - +nature/252 Honchkrow (71)
265 - 252 Magmortar (83)
264 - 152 Yanmega (95)
261 - 252 Milotic (81)
259 - 252 Blaziken, Kabutops (80)
255 - 252 Feraligatr (78)
249 - 252 Absol (75)
242 - 184 Altaria, Blaziken (80)
241 - 252 Honchkrow (71)
239 - 252 Ludicolo (70)

Tier 3 (< 70 base Speed)

236 - no-speed Miltank (100)
226 - no-speed Drapion, Uxie (95)
218 - no-speed Rotom (91)
211 - 252 Torterra (56)
206 - no-speed Toxicroak (85)
201 - 20 Blaziken (80)
199 - 252 Tangrowth (50)
198 - no-speed Milotic (81)
196 - no-speed Altaria, Blaziken, Kabutops, Mesprit, Venusaur (80)
192 - no-speed Blastoise (78)
188 - no-speed Nidoqueen (76)
186 - no-speed Claydol (75)
176 - no-speed Hitmontop, Ludicolo (70)
170 - no-speed Lanturn (67)
156 - no-speed Clefable, Porygon 2, Weezing (60)
146 - no-speed Omastar (55)
136 - no-speed Azumarill, Chansey, Donphan, Hariyama, Regirock, Registeel, Tangrowth (50)
106 - no-speed Spiritomb (35)
96 - no-speed Slowbro, Steelix (30)
58- -nature/0IV Slowbro, Steelix (30)

Some notes on the Yanmega and Blaziken speeds: it seems pretty one dimensional to just use 252 speed spreads on pokes that run certain speed EVs on their most popular sets. Any thoughts on this?

Added Hitmonlee, both Scarf and no scarf speeds.

Added and removed pokes mentioned 2 posts above due to tier changes.

Also removed some things like +1 252 speed +nature Venusaur. Not common at all really.

Edit: thank you Steinhauser. Completely forgot about Smeargle.

Also, I guess this could just wait another 15 days before making some final changes when the tier lists come out for the third month mark. Then the speed tiers will be good for another three months.

EDIT 7/30: removed Gardevoir, Primeape, Muk, Ninetales, Poliwrath, Umbreon, Crobat, Shaymin

Added no speed Tangrowth, 252 Tangrowth, +2 252 Tangrowth, no speed Donphan, 252 Dugtrio, and Jolly 252 Dugtrio, 184 Altaria, +1 184 Altaria

Looks good, although there is one reference to Gallade and two to Smeargle (who is now OU) that you missed.

409 - +1 +nature/252 Absol, Smeargle (75)
388 - +1 252 Blaziken, Gallade (80)
273 - +nature/252 Absol, Smeargle (75)

I was just building a team and went to go look for these on-site and realized I never did anything with these =(

Peachfuzz, is the list "completed" (ignoring any tier changes which I can remove easily)? If so, I'll look at it more carefully and put it up (assuming it's good / accurate); it looked alright on my first glance (and I got the number I needed for my team).

Added Altaria, Poliwrath, Nidoking, Primeape, and Scyther that I missed before.

What speed do Dragon Dance Altaria usually run?

Otherwise this is complete.

Under Speed Boosts, the move Agility needs to be capitalized.

What speed do Dragon Dance Altaria usually run?

Click to expand...

There are two options:

184 speed EVs Adamant (242 Speed) to outspeed positive +115 speed pokemon like Floatzel, Persian or Sneasel after Dragon Dance. Outspeeding Swellow with Adamant nature isn't possible, so here's the next option.

150 speed EVS Jolly (256 Speed) looses a bit of power, but you may invest a bit of EVs in HP and Altaria is quite bulky, so it's a good option. Also with this set you outspeed Swellow by one point after one Dragon Dance.

Is there anything that needs to be added to this? I was in the process of revamping this earlier before I saw this.

Obviously, Shaymin, Crobat, and Umbreon need to be removed, Donphan and Dugtrio need to be added, etc.

Tier changes have been done. Is this what we have to do every three months or whenever UU/BL nominations get done? Or maybe not. The OU speed tiers on-site lists things like Purugly.... I guess stuff in NU is fine, but BL things always have to go.

Xia, I can't edit the Agility thing :[

Just need a double check and everything seems all good!