Regarding the CAP Server

[tennisace]

Here in the CAP Forum, things are great. We have 6 Pokemon made, we have our own forum, IRC Channel, and are going to have our own portion of the site for analyses and articles eventually. Polls are booming, with hundreds voting on most polls. However, in all the glitz and glamor of the polls, there is one major part of CAP that has been neglected severely: The server. An average number of users on the CAP server is around 15. Where do all the people go? Surely they want to see the fruit of their labor?

Is it because the metagame is too unforgiving? The problem is, why bother voting if you don't know what our metagame is? It's like voting for the president of France from America, you don't know the issues and nuances of the metagame.

I can understand if you have so much else to do you simply don't have time to battle at all. But for all the people laddering on SU, what's your excuse? You're too lazy to learn the metagame? It doesn't take too much adjustment to prep a standard team for the CAP ladder, and the regulars on the server are happy to help you with that." You think that CAP people are crazy for playing with made up Pokemon? Most CAP people are quite active all over Smogon. You just don't feel like it? Don't participate at all then, and leave us be in peace.

All I'm asking is that you just try it once. Just once. If you like it, stick around, we don't judge, and we're very accepting. If not, thats fine, just don't keep making our Pokemon for us.

[Plus]

Agreeing completely with tennis here. I'm seeing a shitload of voters each and every day at CaP, and I don't see a fraction of the people there on the server whatsoever. What happened?

[Bass]

It's much easier to vote than to actually playtest pokemon on the server. Keep in mind that most votes are as simple as clicking a button, while actually playing on the server requires you to learn about the metagame and build a new team. That takes a significantly longer time to do that to actually vote, which could suggest that a bulk of the voters are more interested in the process than the results.

I don't disagree with you that a lot of people that take the time to contribute to this project should be logging on the server more often, but remember that it isn't as simple as you may think.

[cyberzero]

Originally Posted by Fat tennisace

All I'm asking is that you just try it once. Just once. If you like it, stick around, we don't judge, and we're very accepting. If not, thats fine, just don't keep making our Pokemon for us.

Tennis, many people DO try out the Pokemon. As a regular, I can see the population trends and there are ALWAYS huge spikes in server usage when SU is down or when a new CAP is introduced. This is usually when they come and playtest.

I do think that it's a little harsh not allowing them to contribute, and as you said, we try to be accepting, so if one is uninterested in the metagame but in the process itself, we should be open to that.

Once again, there are already many people who do playtest them once, but only once. I urge people to come and stay, as the community is very close knit and that it will definitely be a great social experience. We have users of every kind, from geniuses to jocks to idiots to battlers to romantics, everything. Anyone can fit right in and have a great time anytime, so why don't you guys try it out?

[tennisace]

Originally Posted by Fat Bass

It's much easier to vote than to actually playtest pokemon on the server. Keep in mind that most votes are as simple as clicking a button, while actually playing on the server requires you to learn about the metagame and build a new team. That takes a significantly longer time to do that to actually vote, which could suggest that a bulk of the voters are more interested in the process than the results.

Then what's the point of voting and potentially making the result less enjoyable for people who care?

Originally Posted by Fat cyberzero

I do think that it's a little harsh not allowing them to contribute, and as you said, we try to be accepting, so if one is uninterested in the metagame but in the process itself, we should be open to that.

I never said they couldn't contribute per se, I'd just rather have them not contribute if they don't know what they're talking about, because then it's just biased opinion and horrible theorymon being thrown around.

[Plus]

Originally Posted by Fat cyberzero

Tennis, many people DO try out the Pokemon. As a regular, I can see the population trends and there are ALWAYS huge spikes in server usage when SU is down or when a new CAP is introduced. This is usually when they come and playtest.

When su is down CaP is obviously going to get more members. That's self explanatory. Will those members who come to CaP stay for good? Most likely not.

[DougJustDoug**]

The CAP project has a Forum and a Server. It is very difficult to be a valued and respected member of this project if you do not participate on both. If your contribution to this project is not informed by actual playtesting experience with these pokemon -- then you will have a very hard time making a meaningful contribution to the project. It is possible to contribute at a high level without server activity, but not likely. So, if some of you have ever wondered how to "get involved" around here -- get on the server and get familiar with CAP pokemon.

The only exception to this rule is artists and spriters. They can do their thing, and never get on the server, if they don't feel like it. However, in my experience, even that is not the case. As I see prominent CAP artists like Wyverii, Cartoons, and Atyroki on the server quite a bit.

[cyberzero]

Originally Posted by Fat DougJustDoug

The only exception to this rule is artists and spriters. They can do their thing, and never get on the server, if they don't feel like it. However, in my experience, even that is not the case. As I see prominent CAP artists like Wyverii, Cartoons, and Atyroki on the server quite a bit.

I agree with this completely, but even those who are exempt from this show up. Another example of how to contribute is if you have MAJOR contributions on the forums, like X-Act for example. Although he hasn't come on the server lately, his contributions on the forum have him in high respect all throughout CAP.

By the way, you're forgetting the revived KoA and Cyzir for the artists that come on. =P

[Plus]

When we have a pretty big userbase like Smogon does, this sort of thing will happen. You will often have voters who haven't a clue in the metagame, along with anonymous drive-by voters. When polls are open to the public, we will get these sort of people. Making topic discussions/voting exclusive to a select few would also massively decrease our popularity. Likewise, making it public allows for a higher chance of idiotic posts. As long as we can show these kind of people what they actually made through a hands on experience, they would have a better understanding of CaP, thus making discussions a lot more easier, since there are facts to back up "x pokemon is broken," etc.

[Umbreon Dan]

My apologies. I haven't been on Shoddy at all lately (CAP or otherwise) but I'll try to resist voting in the polls from now on. I'll probably still comment, though, and when I've got time to battle, I'll choose CAP first. Then I'll come back and vote for CAP7.
Oh, but I'm still going to vote in the Art polls, Name polls and such, since they don't affect the metagame. How's that?

[Bobtheball4]

ya, i wish there were also some people on in the morning, :( recently its been just me and hal, and the occasional lord vador, and then eric comes, but besides them, its all randoms complaining about the question marks >_>, or it could just be because i have no school yet, so everyones in school <_< but yet i still see those 2, unless they both live on europe....

[cyberzero]

Eric is Europe and Vader is East Coast, but I'm sorry I can't be around earlier.

[Kamen Rider]

I would definantly encourage people curious about the server to join. I did and now I prefer it too regular OU. It also definantly makes you better informed about the CaP process as a whole because you can talk to the Veterans of the project and learn the ins and outs of both the metagame and design.Not to mention having a place to bounce CaP ideas around in.

So come in and give it a try.

[eric the espeon]

Maybe the CaP metagame guide will help a bit, maybe if there were a few CaP teams on TSU or just in RMTs here it would be more easy to learn.

But anyway please come on and have a try of the Pokemon you have helped to create! If there is no one on ladder do not hesitate to ask for someone to go there, its often empty but most of the time someone is willing to go on it if they know they will get a match.

Also there are no rules against poll jumping on the server, so if you want to discuss the Electric/Dragon Specs tank for CaP 7 with tennis then no problem (Electric for CaP 7!). Though you do need some sense, don't just post a fully created Pokemon in the middle of a convisation about new UU or something.

[phalanx]

hasn't this been an issue for months?
more players would bring more people to the ladder anyway, it used to be fun having more people on the server and playing in the mini-tournies.

[DHR-107]

Originally Posted by Fat bobtheball4

ya, i wish there were also some people on in the morning, :( recently its been just me and hal, and the occasional lord vador, and then eric comes, but besides them, its all randoms complaining about the question marks >_>, or it could just be because i have no school yet, so everyones in school <_< but yet i still see those 2, unless they both live on europe....

Hehe... Im on most days now apart from mondays and Thursdays, but Im usually on in the evenings... UK Time anyway... Which would be like mid day US :/

But I agree with tennis that people should stick around... I mean, I stayed after some rather peculiar first experiences being destroyed by Tail Glow Syclants. I think the reason people don't RMT with the caps is because a lot of them (The people who rate the teams) don't know about them. And therefore can't give logical moveset ideas on them.

[eric the espeon]

I am sure that Bass, SoT, tennis and me (as well as a dozen other people who I really can't be bothered to list) all know the meta well enough and are willing/able to help anyone who wants team advice.

[sbc]

It's really grates me to be honest that people don't visit the server. When I see 200+ people voting on an art poll and 10 people on the server at the same time it annoys me.

It's not even as if you can't have two Shoddy windows open at once even if you don't want to battle you can just check Away and go about your business doing what you want. At least then a) the server becomes more attractive to people (living in the UK, before 8/9pm the server is more or less dead) seeing 20/30 users online and it will "snowball" from there and b) you can look at the chat listen to others' opinions and even watch a battle or two.

[Plus]

I'm agreeing with SBC here. It's honestly not that hard to keep 2 shoddy windows open (Heck, I usually keep 3-4 up per day), and we're not asking you to become full regulars of the server. Simply knowing how the server works and observing what kind of things happen there is beneficial enough to the CaP project. I'm sure the voters of CaP have good intentions for the forum, so why not keep it alive at the place that CaP really happens in? We could play theorymon all day long, or we could actually go to the server and see for ourselves what we had created actually performs in the metagame.

[Magmortified]

Y'know, maybe if people went on CAP more, it wouldn't be as easy for me to pull off stunts like this:

HAL9000: 1. MAGMORTIFIED (1,564.12)*
HAL9000: 2. PLUS (1,556.55)*
HAL9000: 3. BEEJ (1,546.51)*
HAL9000: 4. SHAQFORTIFIED (1,543.62)*
HAL9000: 5. BRAGBORTIFIED (1,520.31)*

=/

Basically agreeing with most of the stuff said here otherwise. I feel a lot more confident knowing that a person who's voting on a crucial competitive aspect for a new CAP has actually played the metagame that it's affecting.

[Master of Llamas]

Personally, I don't go on much because there rarely is anyone on. I generally don't chat much and just click find a battle. But most times it takes a few minutes to get a match, and after the fact you just keep facing the same people.

[tennisace]

That depends on the time you're on. If you're on in the afternoon (EST), then there are tons of people on.

[Plus]

If everybody doesn't go on because it's empty, then the CaP server will never get bigger. At least AFK there, as one extra member of the server makes that much of a difference.

[Darkflagrance]

The CAP project is distinguished by its process. Obviously the basis for this process is the idea that the members of Smogon University can effectively create pokemon, with guidance from those who might have pro-quality experience with pokemon.

The problem with CAP is that this is the process that is best designed to draw in large numbers: by personally involving the people. If this process were to be conducted by a small group, i.e. an elite team created new pokemon by fiat, I doubt any positive change would result anyway, and in fact we'd have crappier sprites.

[Plus]

Sprites are not a factor. Competitive should always comes before flavor in this project. We're not making an elite team that does CaP by itself. We're just asking the majority of voters to just get on the server at least once and try everything out. Flavor is nice and everything, but is it really that important compared to the main point of CaP? This is a competitive project.

I'd also like to quote Doug on something he has said.

Originally Posted by Fat DJD

The only exception to this rule is artists and spriters. They can do their thing, and never get on the server, if they don't feel like it. However, in my experience, even that is not the case. As I see prominent CAP artists like Wyverii, Cartoons, and Atyroki on the server quite a bit.

Even people such as cap artists go on the server. We have a good mix of people on the cap server, and it's not an excuse to have "bad art" when we obviously have amazing artists such as them, and when a majority of the big contributors to cap come from the server.

Let's not further the discussion of Art. We have gotten into way too many arguments about art and I don't think we should start it here. The purpose of this topic is basically just to get more people to come to the server and learn about the metagame, even if it's only just one time.